The Capitol Albums Vol 1 & 2 vs. The U.S. Albums Box Set
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I have the U.S. Albums box set (2 actually, long story)...is there any reason to buy the Capitol Albums Vol 1 & 2 sets as well--any different versions??? Only Vol 1 seems to be available on Amazon. I read about some issue with Vol 2 and don't know if it was corrected or what. Why is Vol 2 not available? Figured I'd let the experts here explain it...something to do with "fake stereo" and "fold downs" etc ... I haven't had the time to research it. I also have the 2009 mono and stero sets as well as the Beatles USB limited edition little green apple with the hi-res files on it. I also recently bought the vinyl album set from Amazon France (German pressings as opposed to the problematic US ones). Thanks for any info.
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Oh, a very tangled story! These links explain it more completely than I could: http://wogew.blogspot.com/2014/01/us-albums-mixes-used.html http://www.thebeatlesrarity.com/2014/01/21/the-u-s-albums-box-set-a-comparison-with-the-original-capitol-releases/ http://www.thebeatlesrarity.com/2014/01/26/the-u-s-albums-box-set-a-final-word-on-mixes-used/ I'll try to give a brief version: When Capitol decided to make their own albums in the sixties (instead of using the British ones), they didn't always use the same stereo and mono mixes that the British releases had (for a variety of reasons). So if Capitol didn't get the true mono mix for a song, but they had the stereo, they'd create a mono mix by "folding down" the left and right of the stereo mix into one channel, approximating mono. And if Capitol didn't get the stereo, but they had the true mono, they would sometimes spread out the mono track into two channels (through a process I can't quite remember) to approximate stereo, i.e., fake stereo. In addition to these tricks, they would also sometimes add extra reverb to the tracks to add more "excitement." Oh, and occasionally they would even end up with a different vocal on the track, and other quirks like the false starts on "I'm Looking Through You," and some were truly different mixes of certain songs. So that's the way they were released in the sixties, and to add to the confusion, certain of these mixes were changed again later in the sixties or seventies on later pressings of the albums. In 2004 and 2006, when Capitol released those boxed sets of the albums from 1964 and 1965, they used the mixes that Capitol used originally, with all of the quirks intact. With the second box (1965), though, a production error caused the first pressings to go out with "fold-down mono" on ALL mono tracks on two of the CDs. These were corrected and re-pressed, but obviously there are still some incorrect ones out there. (Surest way to tell if it's the incorrect one is to test "I'm Looking Through You": if the false starts from the stereo version are also on the mono track, then it's the wrong one.) For the new box, they decided to eliminate most/all of the fold-down monos and fake stereos, but they tried to keep all the performance quirks of the U.S. versions and any true alternate mixes. So for the most part they used the 2009 British mono and stereo remasters to put this all together. Unfortunately, a handful of those quirks were omitted in the confusion (such as a different lead vocal take on "Help!"). The links above tell you where Capitol/Apple succeeded in their new mission and where they failed, and what sources were used, but it's confusing no matter how you look at it!
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Wow, what a tangled web we weave So are people trying to find the defective AND corrected version of Vol 2 in order to get everything? Why is Vol 2 not available anywhere? ANy ideas who might be selling it? Thanks for all the detailed information!!
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I don't know why Vol. 2 isn't available, but as to collecting the defective and corrected versions, I'm sure some people have! Personally, I got the defective version initially, and when I contacted the label, they said to just send the discs themselves to them, no packaging, and they'd send replacements. Before I sent them off, I imported them into my iTunes, so I do "have" them in that way. The new ones came and they were fine.
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Thanks! So you have the mp3 files of the defective discs and the corrected CDs as well--cool! I'll take a look at the links you posted. Thanks again. I managed to find a brand new Vol 2 set (brick) for $70. I have the Vol 1 set (Longbox) on order from Amazon. It's a bit annoying they are both not in the same format!
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Erik in NJ:
Thanks! So you have the mp3 files of the defective discs and the corrected CDs as well--cool! I'll take a look at the links you posted. Thanks again. I managed to find a brand new Vol 2 set (brick) for $70. I have the Vol 1 set (Longbox) on order from Amazon. It's a bit annoying they are both not in the same format!
Very annoying. I didn't realize it was the "brick" until it came.
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Especially since the Vol 1 brick doesn't seem to be available--I just wanted them to be the same size. Thanks again for all of your great info!!
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favoritething:
In 2004 and 2006, when Capitol released those boxed sets of the albums from 1964 and 1965, they used the mixes that Capitol used originally, with all of the quirks intact. With the second box (1965), though, a production error caused the first pressings to go out with "fold-down mono" on ALL mono tracks on two of the CDs. These were corrected and re-pressed, but obviously there are still some incorrect ones out there. (Surest way to tell if it's the incorrect one is to test "I'm Looking Through You": if the false starts from the stereo version are also on the mono track, then it's the wrong one.)
I didn't know that. I just checked my copy and I have the 1st pressing with the wrong mono mix. Is it just Rubber Soul that had the wrong mono mixes? Is it collectable?
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dcshark, I believe he said that two of the CDs in that set erroneously have the fold-down mono. I'd hang onto it based on what I read as the correct versions seem to have dropped a couple other desireable features. Vol 2 is very hard to find as of late. [edit: sorry FT, I confused you with another, been corrected now]
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It was Rubber Soul and Beatles VI that were affected. I guess people are split on what's desirable. I'm just trying to give the basic facts, but one confusing thing is that only SOME of the tracks on these albums had fold-down mono in the U.S. at the time, so for these two titles to have ALL fold-down mono in that incorrect pressing is altering history in yet a different way that was not even intended (just supposed to be a test). The new box alters history, but here the goal (as far as I can tell) was to have the best-sounding mixes out there representing them while still maintaining the quirks that would be easily identifiable to the fans who lived through it. Most of the reverb is gone now, though, and to me that was one of the most obvious differences in the U.S. versions. (You even pointed that out, Erik, in your Rock 'n' Roll Music thread.)
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ok thanks, favoritething.
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I got this set (Vol 1) over the weekend in the mail and it happened to be a Japanese import in the long box--the included booklets are nice and probably different than the US versions. Does anyone know if there are any difference between the US and Japanese versions of this set?
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Comparing stereo version of "I Feel Fine" on the Capitol Albums set to the U.S. Albums set, the amount of reverb added to the mix is much heavier on the former. I was surprised at how big a difference there is. This is the first comparison I have done between the two set.
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i have both vol. 1 and vol .2 in brick format both when they came out (2004 and 2006) got them at target and from what i can hear,mine sound correct but who knows
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Hi BJH, Have you compared them to the U.S. Albums set? I think the Capitol discs definitely have a lot more echo/reverb. BTW, cool new avatar! Do you look like that??
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I picked up the scarce Vol 2 brick last night at my local Barnes and Noble for about $70. Looks like it's now out of stock in my area and the Amazon 3rd party rip-off artists are looking for $180 or more. Anyway, glad I was able to find a copy. So now I have the Vol. 1 longbox and the Vol. 2 brick. There is definitely a different sound between these albums and the U.S. Albums set.
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I still can't get my head round why they origionally released VOL 1+2 and left it incomplete.... Its all the stranger that they've now released a new box which sort of leaves the origional 2 volumes worthless. I have those origional 2 volumes and refuse to buy the complete new box . I've just added "Yesterday and Today", " A Hard Days Night" ,"Revolver" and "Hey Jude" seperatley to complete my collection of American albums on CD. An extremley odd and frustrating piece of decision making on the part of Apple
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stuartshire:
I still can't get my head round why they origionally released VOL 1+2 and left it incomplete.... Its all the stranger that they've now released a new box which sort of leaves the origional 2 volumes worthless. I have those origional 2 volumes and refuse to buy the complete new box . I've just added "Yesterday and Today", " A Hard Days Night" ,"Revolver" and "Hey Jude" seperatley to complete my collection of American albums on CD. An extremley odd and frustrating piece of decision making on the part of Apple
I feel exactly the same way, and I may yet buy those four titles you bought, instead of the box.
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The new sleeves are bigger , but I can put up with that !