So Sgt. Pepper Took You By Surprise?
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SurSteven:
Kathryn O:
SurSteven:
Nancy R:
Erik in NJ:
hey_kittay:
It all became quite clear to me yesterday. The whole song.
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
Might as well give up Erik. They would rather talk in riddles themselves!
When Corpernicus and Galileo promoted the idea that the earth was round and not the center of the universe...the flat earthians and the self oriented survivalists thought that they were insane...and now...it is a common given fact backmask the word....walrus...study the prefix...sur...the concept of law...and the concept of love...and get back to me in the next 72 hours
dissecting lyrics to Beatles songs while high is pretty dangerous.
you di-sect and pick things apart under the influence of alcohol...ask any battered woman when you are high...you are more likely to think broadly and deeply and objectively about things...ask anyone who has ever promoted love and understanding as a political solution
I know the type well. In fact, the weirdest person I know (and that's saying a lot as I go to science fiction conventions) had to be given an ultimatum: no reading the dictionary while on acid
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I always took the line as John saying that Paul was surprised how successful Sgt, Pepper was. Because it was such a departure from their earlier stuff. Paul probably wondered if their younger teen fans would get it and how the critics would treat it. Although Revolver was a big step along the way and Rubber Soul and even Help ! showed signs of the maturing of their music, Pepper was the album that broke them completely with the Moptop/Beatlemania era. As for How Do You Sleep, I think it is a particularly nasty and hurtful attack on his once great friend . OK Paul had a couple of veiled digs on RAM but remember John started it on Plastic Ono Band. Later on Lennon I think greatly regretted doing it as he said in interviews that he really didn't mean what he said about Paul and the lyrics reveal more about his own state of mine. Sure he was angry with Paul but he was also dealing with his own demons.
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Apollo C. Vermouth:
I always took the line as John saying that Paul was surprised how successful Sgt, Pepper was. Because it was such a departure from their earlier stuff. Paul probably wondered if their younger teen fans would get it and how the critics would treat it. Although Revolver was a big step along the way and Rubber Soul and even Help ! showed signs of the maturing of their music, Pepper was the album that broke them completely with the Moptop/Beatlemania era. As for How Do You Sleep, I think it is a particularly nasty and hurtful attack on his once great friend . OK Paul had a couple of veiled digs on RAM but remember John started it on Plastic Ono Band. Later on Lennon I think greatly regretted doing it as he said in interviews that he really didn't mean what he said about Paul and the lyrics reveal more about his own state of mine. Sure he was angry with Paul but he was also dealing with his own demons.
Great post Apollo--I think you hit the nail on the head! In the song the "you" is a consistent reference to Paul. Interestingly enough John later referred to Pepper as "Paul's album" or something to that effect. And I agree with your second paragraph as well. Any idea what the second line of the song was a reference to? "You better see right through that mother's eyes" In particular I'm curious as to who "that mother" is.
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Erik in NJ:
Apollo C. Vermouth:
I always took the line as John saying that Paul was surprised how successful Sgt, Pepper was. Because it was such a departure from their earlier stuff. Paul probably wondered if their younger teen fans would get it and how the critics would treat it. Although Revolver was a big step along the way and Rubber Soul and even Help ! showed signs of the maturing of their music, Pepper was the album that broke them completely with the Moptop/Beatlemania era. As for How Do You Sleep, I think it is a particularly nasty and hurtful attack on his once great friend . OK Paul had a couple of veiled digs on RAM but remember John started it on Plastic Ono Band. Later on Lennon I think greatly regretted doing it as he said in interviews that he really didn't mean what he said about Paul and the lyrics reveal more about his own state of mine. Sure he was angry with Paul but he was also dealing with his own demons.
Great post Apollo--I think you hit the nail on the head! In the song the "you" is a consistent reference to Paul. Interestingly enough John later referred to Pepper as "Paul's album" or something to that effect. And I agree with your second paragraph as well. Any idea what the second line of the song was a reference to? "You better see right through that mother's eyes" In particular I'm curious as to who "that mother" is.
Well I am not sure but John called Yoko "mother" or maybe it's Linda but I'm sure he is referring to Linda in the "Jump when your momma tell you anything" line. A very low personal and hypocritical attack.
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Kathryn O:
SurSteven:
Nancy R:
Erik in NJ:
hey_kittay:
It all became quite clear to me yesterday. The whole song.
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
Might as well give up Erik. They would rather talk in riddles themselves!
When Corpernicus and Galileo promoted the idea that the earth was round and not the center of the universe...the flat earthians and the self oriented survivalists thought that they were insane...and now...it is a common given fact backmask the word....walrus...study the prefix...sur...the concept of law...and the concept of love...and get back to me in the next 72 hours
dissecting lyrics to Beatles songs while high is pretty dangerous.
^^ since my line was quoted above, I just wanted to be absolutely clear I am not under the influence of drugs. Nor alcohol, which is also a "drug." So I actually came to my amazing discovery completely free of "drugs" of any kind. Maybe that is why it is so darn cool and mindblowing!
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Kathryn O:
SurSteven:
Kathryn O:
SurSteven:
Nancy R:
Erik in NJ:
hey_kittay:
It all became quite clear to me yesterday. The whole song.
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
Might as well give up Erik. They would rather talk in riddles themselves!
When Corpernicus and Galileo promoted the idea that the earth was round and not the center of the universe...the flat earthians and the self oriented survivalists thought that they were insane...and now...it is a common given fact backmask the word....walrus...study the prefix...sur...the concept of law...and the concept of love...and get back to me in the next 72 hours
dissecting lyrics to Beatles songs while high is pretty dangerous.
you di-sect and pick things apart under the influence of alcohol...ask any battered woman when you are high...you are more likely to think broadly and deeply and objectively about things...ask anyone who has ever promoted love and understanding as a political solution
I know the type well. In fact, the weirdest person I know (and that's saying a lot as I go to science fiction conventions) had to be given an ultimatum: no reading the dictionary while on acid
Do you think that alcoholic men who beat their wives are weird? Do you know that it is the second leading cause of premature death in women?
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Erik in NJ:
SurSteven:
When Corpernicus and Galileo promoted the idea that the earth was round and not the center of the universe...the flat earthians and the self oriented survivalists thought that they were insane...and now...it is a common given fact backmask the word....walrus...study the prefix...sur...the concept of law...and the concept of love...and get back to me in the next 72 hours
This is the second time you have introduced the round vs. flat earth debate and I'm sorry but I don't see what relevance it has to this thread. As an interesting aside, you do know that this debate coined the term "revolution" don't you? I doubt Lennon knew that. Your second paragraph makes no sense to me especially since "backmask" is not a word. It would be a lot easier if you were just to simply post the point you are attempting to make. BTW, please see my post at the bottom of the prior page.
You haven't responded to my 3 posts on Page ONE yet.
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This thread is getting stranger and stranger and more and more off-topic. If folks have run out of things to say about "How Do You Sleep?" then perhaps we should just, uh, let it be.
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Bruce M.:
This thread is getting stranger and stranger and more and more off-topic. If folks have run out of things to say about "How Do You Sleep?" then perhaps we should just, uh, let it be.
the thread isn't about...hdysan...it is about...ssptybs
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SurSteven:
Bruce M.:
This thread is getting stranger and stranger and more and more off-topic. If folks have run out of things to say about "How Do You Sleep?" then perhaps we should just, uh, let it be.
the thread isn't about...hdysan...it is about...ssptybs
How can you discuss the beginning line of How Do You Sleep ? without talking about the song as a whole ?
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Moderator Post Following a complaint, we have to ask all members participating in this discussion to please stay on topic. Future posts straying from the thread's topic will be removed without further notice. Thank you
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Apollo C. Vermouth:
SurSteven:
Bruce M.:
This thread is getting stranger and stranger and more and more off-topic. If folks have run out of things to say about "How Do You Sleep?" then perhaps we should just, uh, let it be.
the thread isn't about...hdysan...it is about...ssptybs
How can you discuss the beginning line of How Do You Sleep ? without talking about the song as a whole ?
I agree and posters should feel free to discuss the full set of lyrics here--there have been some very good posts and some excellent links to videos. We were trying to determine the meaning of the second line of the song.
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"that mother..." to me sounds like a slang derogatory insult like "that mother f*****". Originally I thought it was a reference to Paul, with John telling himself to see through him, but I'm sure this is wrong. The "you better see right through" is written to Paul as the "you" in the song consistently refers to Paul. Klein would make some sense in a way, but he helped John write the lyric and Paul had already seen through him, but John hadn't. Maybe it was a reference to Linda's dad Lee Eastman who was Paul's business manager at the time?
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Erik in NJ:
"that mother..." to me sounds like a slang derogatory insult like "that mother f*****". Originally I thought it was a reference to Paul, with John telling himself to see through him, but I'm sure this is wrong. The "you better see right through" is written to Paul as the "you" in the song consistently refers to Paul. Klein would make some sense in a way, but he helped John write the lyric and Paul had already seen through him, but John hadn't. Maybe it was a reference to Linda's dad Lee Eastman who was Paul's business manager at the time?
You might be on the mark there about Eastman. The whole first two lines of that song though do sound like they'd make more sense written from Paul's perspective.... "mother" so easily being either Yoko or Klein, and Pepper would've taken John by more surprise than Paul.... so, if anything, the first line is rather perplexing, unless Paul was very insecure, compared to the rest of them, about the album's success... we can ask Phil Spector for his views when he gets out. I'm sure he'll be able to throw credible light on the whole thing (sarcasm)
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So what do we think exactly took Paul by surprise about Sgt. Pepper? I don't know if Paul expected it to fail. Maybe it had something to do with the changing nature of Beatles collaborations after they stopped touring, etc.
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"that mother" is the album itself. Sgt. Pepper was the mother of all albums. It was an album of psychedelia, mind-expansion, new musical territory, experimentation. Blew everybody's minds, and changed everything. And even Paul was surprised, all The Beatles were surprised, by how it turned out, by its musical scope, by its influence on everyone. John was saying "see through" that album, look at what we did, what you did. Look at what you're doing now, which was "Another Day." John also said "pretty soon they'll see what you can do", which was Band on the Run. Because he knew how good Paul could be when he put his mind to it, and he was pushing his old partner to do better. And if you look at it that way, How Do You Sleep is not a put down at all. It's a wake up call.
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Erik in NJ:
"that mother..." to me sounds like a slang derogatory insult like "that mother f*****". Originally I thought it was a reference to Paul, with John telling himself to see through him, but I'm sure this is wrong. The "you better see right through" is written to Paul as the "you" in the song consistently refers to Paul. Klein would make some sense in a way, but he helped John write the lyric and Paul had already seen through him, but John hadn't. Maybe it was a reference to Linda's dad Lee Eastman who was Paul's business manager at the time?
I think John was speaking to the listening audience when he is speaking the first two lines: "So Sergeant Pepper took you by surprise, You better see right through that mother's eyes..." I think he is referring to Paul. The rest of the song seems to be directed to Paul himself. I think we need the full lyrics to the song. So Sgt. Pepper took you by surprise You better see right through that mother's eyes Those freaks was right when they said you was dead The one mistake you made was in your head Ah, how do you sleep? Ah, how do you sleep at night? You live with straights who tell you you was king Jump when your momma tell you anything The only thing you done was yesterday And since you're gone you're just another day Ah, how do you sleep? Ah, how do you sleep at night? Ah, how do you sleep? Ah, how do you sleep at night? A pretty face may last a year or two But pretty soon they'll see what you can do The sound you make is muzak to my ears You must have learned something in all those years Ah, how do you sleep? Ah, how do you sleep at night?
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Back to my note, I do believe that Sgt Pepper is in reference to drugs. LSD took Paul by surprise, not in a good way. The others were into the drugs and Paul preferred to stay away from LSD. The next line, you better see right through that mothers eyes, I think, means LSD helps "see" right, open the mind, etc. (that mother referencing the mother of all drugs, LSD). My take is that he was knocking Paul for being more straight through the LSD period and not partaking, thereby not being as open and artistic. The rest of the song is about how he's on a pedestal yet not making good music.
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If the LSD reference if true, and Paul did not ever dig it, then what was the Helen Wheels epiphany of the song where supposedly a faery from a star came and 'talked to him.' or however the story goes? I read that somewhere...if someone can find it.
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dappa-macca:
Back to my note, I do believe that Sgt Pepper is in reference to drugs. LSD took Paul by surprise, not in a good way. The others were into the drugs and Paul preferred to stay away from LSD. The next line, you better see right through that mothers eyes, I think, means LSD helps "see" right, open the mind, etc. (that mother referencing the mother of all drugs, LSD). My take is that he was knocking Paul for being more straight through the LSD period and not partaking, thereby not being as open and artistic. The rest of the song is about how he's on a pedestal yet not making good music.
I disagree. John talked years later about how he kept "seeing" Paul when he was tripping. Like Paul was on the same awareness level as John and the others, even though he hadn't taken the drug yet. The line is about the album and its impact, not drugs.