Was Paul REALLY the Walrus??
-
Erik in NJ:
favoritething:
There are quite a few examples of John blurting out random words and phrases on recordings throughout his life, from "I dig a Pygmy" to "eins zwei hickle fickle" to the outtakes from the "Think For Yourself" sessions ("all the walls of Rome couldn't stop me") to "Dig It" and so many others.
OK, name one on a released Beatles album (not an outtake) that was overdubbed within a song.
At the end of "I'm So Tired" John says a bunch of nonsense sounds, then says "Julian." The song "Blackbird" then starts.
-
Nancy R:
I just found out I do have Mark Lewisohn's book The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions! It was in a different room than most of my books. Page 90: "The trumpets and cellos were superimposed onto tracks three and four of the four-track tape so once again all four tracks were full and there was another reduction mix, take 25 becoming take 26. Onto this was added two separate recordings of John Lennon's lead vocal, tracks three and four. At the end of the second overdub John Lennon muttered the words "cranberry sauce" twice over....[Further deflating silly Beatles myths, John most certainly did not say "I buried Paul"!] Yeah, I never understood John's line "Here's another clue for you all...the walrus was Paul" either. What prior clues is he alluding to specifically? Besides, the person in the walrus outfit was clearly John as Paul (with his watch as per usual on his right wrist) is clearly the hippopotamus on the cover of MMT and in other photos of them in the animal get-up! Yeah, I was glad when John finally sang "I was the walrus, but now I'm John."
Thanks Nancy! I haven't listened closely to it in years...the hi-res recording on that little green apple should be fun when I can actually get to them. You're right in that it was pretty obvious that it was John in the walrus consume. I just don't understand the supposed compliment that "the walrus was Paul." But I love the fact that they dropped these "clues" or coincidence conspired so elegantly with the Beatles that we can still discuss this stuff so many decades later My favorite "clue" they could not have designed (and it still amazes me), but if you put a mirror on "LONELY HEARTS" and reflect half of the letters back it reads "ONE HE DIE" with some decorators separating the words. I'm not even sure if Paul is aware of this, but he'd probably love it just like "Memory Almost Full" being an anagram for "For my soulmate LLM". Divine intervention I guess is the only way to explain it for a divine member of a divine band
-
Erik in NJ:
favoritething:
There are quite a few examples of John blurting out random words and phrases on recordings throughout his life, from "I dig a Pygmy" to "eins zwei hickle fickle" to the outtakes from the "Think For Yourself" sessions ("all the walls of Rome couldn't stop me") to "Dig It" and so many others.
OK, name one on a released Beatles album (not an outtake) that was overdubbed within a song.
Not sure what you mean. "I dig a Pygmy" is at the very beginning of "Two Of Us" on the "Let It Be" album and "Dig It" has a whole litany of random utterances on the same album. I don't see how overdubbing makes a difference. My point is that John was doing this all the time, whether on recordings or not, back to his weird imitations of handicapped people in the touring days, and the wordplay in his books. For him to blurt out "cranberry sauce" when they'd just been discussing Thanksgiving is completely understandable to me, and it seems totally in character for John. I know you believe they planted some of the death clues, and nothing I say will change your mind, so we will just have to disagree on that.
-
Erik in NJ:
Interesting! Thx for the references...I'm surprised turkey, giblet gravy, and stuffing didn't make it in there I'm more interested than ever now to get to those hi-res files on that little green apple I have. Emerick could be right I guess--maybe he was talking about a meal on the tape. I still haven't seen any likely explanation for John writing the line "Here's another clue for you all..." in Glass Onion though. I know he said he wanted to say something nice about Paul for his diligent work, but calling someone a walrus (who came up with the animal costume idea and was there any original meaning attributed to them?) is hardly an overt compliment and there's still the enigma of the "clue." There must have been some meaning attributed to a "walrus" with Lennon later backtracking "I was the walrus, but now I'm John."
I've stated this before. back then, the 'clues' regarding a celebrity was referring to his sexuality. clues that he was gay or strange.
-
Erik in NJ:
Nancy R:
I just found out I do have Mark Lewisohn's book The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions! It was in a different room than most of my books. Page 90: "The trumpets and cellos were superimposed onto tracks three and four of the four-track tape so once again all four tracks were full and there was another reduction mix, take 25 becoming take 26. Onto this was added two separate recordings of John Lennon's lead vocal, tracks three and four. At the end of the second overdub John Lennon muttered the words "cranberry sauce" twice over....[Further deflating silly Beatles myths, John most certainly did not say "I buried Paul"!] Yeah, I never understood John's line "Here's another clue for you all...the walrus was Paul" either. What prior clues is he alluding to specifically? Besides, the person in the walrus outfit was clearly John as Paul (with his watch as per usual on his right wrist) is clearly the hippopotamus on the cover of MMT and in other photos of them in the animal get-up! Yeah, I was glad when John finally sang "I was the walrus, but now I'm John."
Thanks Nancy! I haven't listened closely to it in years...the hi-res recording on that little green apple should be fun when I can actually get to them. You're right in that it was pretty obvious that it was John in the walrus consume. I just don't understand the supposed compliment that "the walrus was Paul." But I love the fact that they dropped these "clues" or coincidence conspired so elegantly with the Beatles that we can still discuss this stuff so many decades later My favorite "clue" they could not have designed (and it still amazes me), but if you put a mirror on "LONELY HEARTS" and reflect half of the letters back it reads "ONE HE DIE" with some decorators separating the words. I'm not even sure if Paul is aware of this, but he'd probably love it just like "Memory Almost Full" being an anagram for "For my soulmate LLM". Divine intervention I guess is the only way to explain it for a divine member of a divine band
the clue with the mirror also shows a date. It's either a november date or a september date depending on your country. the november date happens to be the day John met Yoko at the Indica
-
Kathryn O:
I've stated this before. back then, the 'clues' regarding a celebrity was referring to his sexuality. clues that he was gay or strange.
You keep saying this, but in this context it doesn't make any sense that he would be referring to Paul's sexuality and I have no idea what "being a walrus" would mean--again in this context. Surely the literal interpretation was still valid too, no? If John said "Here's another clue for you all, he's a bit light in the loafers, speaks with a lisp, and has a limp wrist" then I could see your point.
-
This time I am going to admit that I don't know for sure what I am talking about. What about The Walrus, as in, "The Carpenter and The Walrus"? Maybe John saying that The Walrus was anyone else was like saying "The Carpenter did it", or like insisting that "He (John the Walrus) Didn't Do IT!", like a guilty boy who is caught in a lie? Maybe it's a matter of assuming the guilty character of The Walrus as he dispels an accusation as it might apply to a "Glass Onion", which is a viewing window on a closed casket? Somebody saying "Here's a clue for you" might also be directed at a detective. I'm also remembering seeing Peter Sellers in and around the band at that time.
-
Never heard about the date. Can you post details and which word is used to create the date?
-
The famous Walrus makes an appearance again in "Come Together" "he got walrus gumboot"
-
OK, here we go. After some research, it seems pretty clear to me: "Here's another clue for you all" (and the entire song of "Glass Onion") was John's dig at all the people over-interpreting the Beatles' songs. Nothing to do with Paul Is Dead clues, because at this time, in 1968, even though there had been rumors at least twice that Paul had died, no one was scouring the lyrics or album covers for clues at this time (not that I can find); those "clues" weren't discussed until September '69 at the earliest. John's explanation was: "That's me, just doing a throwaway song, à la Walrus, à la everything I've ever written. I threw the line in - 'the Walrus was Paul' - just to confuse everybody a bit more. And I thought Walrus has now become me, meaning 'I am the one.' Only it didn't mean that in this song. It could have been 'the fox terrier is Paul,' you know. I mean, it's just a bit of poetry. It was just thrown in like that." (1980, Playboy) He also said: "Well, that was a joke. The line was put in partly because I was feeling guilty because I was with Yoko and I was leaving Paul. I was trying - I don't know. It's a very perverse way of saying to Paul, you know, 'Here, have this crumb, this illusion - this stroke, because I'm leaving'." (1980, Playboy) The Walrus itself was, in fact, a reference to Lewis Carroll's "The Walrus and the Carpenter," but here's the humorous part: "It never dawned on me that Lewis Carroll was commenting on the capitalist system. I never went into that bit about what he really meant, like people are doing with the Beatles' work. Later, I went back and looked at it and realized that the walrus was the bad guy in the story and the carpenter was the good guy. I thought, Oh, s**t, I picked the wrong guy. I should have said, 'I am the carpenter.' But that wouldn't have been the same, would it? [Sings, laughing] 'I am the carpenter....'" (1980, Playboy) Here are my references for this: http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/glass-onion/ http://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/i-am-the-walrus/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Onion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Walrus
-
Erik in NJ:
I still haven't seen any likely explanation for John writing the line "Here's another clue for you all..." in Glass Onion though. I know he said he wanted to say something nice about Paul for his diligent work, but calling someone a walrus (who came up with the animal costume idea and was there any original meaning attributed to them?) is hardly an overt compliment and there's still the enigma of the "clue." There must have been some meaning attributed to a "walrus" with Lennon later backtracking "I was the walrus, but now I'm John."
I wouldn't read anything into the lyrics of Glass Onion. Lennon deliberately wrote the lyrics to mislead and confuse fans. As he says in the 1980 Playboy interviews: That's me, just doing a throwaway song, à la Walrus, à la everything I've ever written. I threw the line in - 'the Walrus was Paul' - just to confuse everybody a bit more.
-
FT, Nice bit of research with links--I like it! The one thing that would help if you have a chance is to edit your post and add at least dates for the various Lennon quotes to give us a better context. I found the last quote to be particularly interesting. The only thing he still doesn't explain it the use of the phrase "Here's another clue..." as opposed to simply saying the walrus (or fox-terrier) is Paul. The word another implies that this "clue" was one of more. What was the purpose of the "clues?" The lyrics to "I Am The Walrus" doesn't really imply a good or a bad guy so throwing Paul the "crumb" of being the walrus also doesn't make too much sense unless he is saying that he simply mentioned his name in the song. I believe this is the only Beatle lyric that mentions another Beatle by name. I find it odd that he says this is me doing a throw-away song "à la everything I've ever written" because there are several references to Paul's songs in the lyric.
-
When does John start with this sort of thing? I AM THE WALRUS comes to mind, when he starts quoting his own song titles in a song ("See how they fly like Lucy in the sky...").
-
Erik in NJ:
FT, Nice bit of research with links--I like it! The one thing that would help if you have a chance is to edit your post and add at least dates for the various Lennon quotes to give us a better context. I found the last quote to be particularly interesting. The only thing he still doesn't explain it the use of the phrase "Here's another clue..." as opposed to simply saying the walrus (or fox-terrier) is Paul. The word another implies that this "clue" was one of more. What was the purpose of the "clues?" The lyrics to "I Am The Walrus" doesn't really imply a good or a bad guy so throwing Paul the "crumb" of being the walrus also doesn't make too much sense unless he is saying that he simply mentioned his name in the song. I believe this is the only Beatle lyric that mentions another Beatle by name. I find it odd that he says this is me doing a throw-away song "à la everything I've ever written" because there are several references to Paul's songs in the lyric.
Yes, I should have referenced the quotes. All are from his 1980 Playboy magazine interview. "Another clue" (as opposed to just "a clue") says to me that John's kind of fed up with all the interpretations of his songs, and he's just throwing "another" one onto the pile of interpretations and clues that others have come up with. I believe he's referring to all the books and articles that had been written, where they interpret the Beatles to be everything from saviors to Communists to the Antichrist. I know, the "crumb" thing is a bit confusing to me, too. Seems like he's kind of thanking Paul for taking over the business side since Brian died(?). More of that quote: "At that time I was still in my love cloud with Yoko. I thought, Well, I'll just say something nice to Paul, that it's all right and you did a good job over these years, holding us together. He was trying to organize the group and all that, so I wanted to say something to him. I thought , 'Well, he can have it, I've got Yoko. And thank you, you can have the credit.'" And there's this undated (sorry!) quote from Paul: "John wrote the tune 'Glass Onion', I mean he wrote it mainly, but I helped him on it, and when we were writing it we were thinking specifically of the whole idea of all these kind of people who write in and say 'Who is the Walrus, John? Were you the Walrus?' or 'Is Paul the Walrus?' So John, I mean, he happened to have a line go 'Oh Yeah, the Walrus was Paul' and we had a great giggle to say yeah let's do that. Let's put this line in 'cause everybody's gonna read into it and go crackers cause they all thought John was the Walrus." In 1970, John said this: "We saw the movie ["Alice In Wonderland'] in L.A. and the Walrus was a big capitalist that ate all the f**king oysters. I always had the image of the Walrus in the garden and I loved it, and so I didn't ever check what the Walrus was. He's a f**king bastard-thats what he turns out to be. But the way it's written, everybody presumes that means something. I mean even I did. We all just presumed that because I said 'I Am The Walrus' that it means 'I Am God' or something. It's just poetry, but it became symbolic of me." "à la everything I've ever written" -- I believe that's John claiming that every song he's written has been a throwaway. Typically self-deprecating, but kind of disturbing.
-
Audley's Piano:
This time I am going to admit that I don't know for sure what I am talking about. What about The Walrus, as in, "The Carpenter and The Walrus"? Maybe John saying that The Walrus was anyone else was like saying "The Carpenter did it", or like insisting that "He (John the Walrus) Didn't Do IT!", like a guilty boy who is caught in a lie? Maybe it's a matter of assuming the guilty character of The Walrus as he dispels an accusation as it might apply to a "Glass Onion", which is a viewing window on a closed casket? Somebody saying "Here's a clue for you" might also be directed at a detective. I'm also remembering seeing Peter Sellers in and around the band at that time.
A viewing window on a closed casket? That's a new one! I thought it was this: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/glass_onion
-
Erik in NJ:
FT, The lyrics to "I Am The Walrus" doesn't really imply a good or a bad guy so throwing Paul the "crumb" of being the walrus also doesn't make too much sense unless he is saying that he simply mentioned his name in the song. I believe this is the only Beatle lyric that mentions another Beatle by name.
You are correct, unless you count Ringo saying, "All right George!" in "Boys" or the other Beatles song (I can't think of) where a similar thing is done (George again) and is there a "Ringo" one?
-
Nancy R:
Erik in NJ:
FT, The lyrics to "I Am The Walrus" doesn't really imply a good or a bad guy so throwing Paul the "crumb" of being the walrus also doesn't make too much sense unless he is saying that he simply mentioned his name in the song. I believe this is the only Beatle lyric that mentions another Beatle by name.
You are correct, unless you count Ringo saying, "All right George!" in "Boys" or the other Beatles song (I can't think of) where a similar thing is done (George again) and is there a "Ringo" one?
Ringo refers to himself in "Matchbox" (unless I'm hearing it incorrectly): "If you don't want Ringo's peaches, honey / Please don't mess around my tree." Not sure if "Go, Johnny, go!" counts when George says that in "For You Blue." Oh, and Ringo calls out George's name (and his own) in "Honey Don't" as well!
-
I knew there were some call outs I thought Ringo mentions his own name in an early Beatles song as an ad lib call out to George...something like "play it one time for Ringo" or something like that--I'm sure you guys remember it better than I do. Yes, I meant proper lyric, but the call outs are cool. I think Glass Onion is the only proper lyric that addresses another Beatle directly by name.
-
Nancy R:
Audley's Piano:
This time I am going to admit that I don't know for sure what I am talking about. What about The Walrus, as in, "The Carpenter and The Walrus"? Maybe John saying that The Walrus was anyone else was like saying "The Carpenter did it", or like insisting that "He (John the Walrus) Didn't Do IT!", like a guilty boy who is caught in a lie? Maybe it's a matter of assuming the guilty character of The Walrus as he dispels an accusation as it might apply to a "Glass Onion", which is a viewing window on a closed casket? Somebody saying "Here's a clue for you" might also be directed at a detective. I'm also remembering seeing Peter Sellers in and around the band at that time.
A viewing window on a closed casket? That's a new one! I thought it was this: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/glass_onion
That's what I get for listening to the fan fiction. I believed the word-of-mouth when Idon'tknowwho said it was a casket window. Thank God for The Internet. The best myth buster known to Man.
-
Audley's Piano:
Maybe it's a matter of assuming the guilty character of The Walrus as he dispels an accusation as it might apply to a "Glass Onion", which is a viewing window on a closed casket? Somebody saying "Here's a clue for you" might also be directed at a detective. I'm also remembering seeing Peter Sellers in and around the band at that time.
AP, I have seen on the Internet where a "viewing window" like you mentioned is referenced as the term "glass onion" though I'm not sure how correct that is. I remember seeing such a window on a casket in the movie "Tombstone" after the shootout at the O.K. Corral. I would imagine that there's a name for either the window or that type of casket. Maybe someone will be able to confirm. Before the days of the Net, I'd heard in an interview that a "glass onion" was a crystal ball, but again I'm not sure how correct that is. You can't believe everything you read on the Internet --Abraham Lincoln