MEAT EATERS-SHAME ON YOU
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Hi all and welcome to the message board. The debate clearly is close to Paul's heart as he just now is making a major relaunch of the families involvement with Linda McCartney Foods, Mary McCartney's book called Food etc If you read back a few pages or so you'll see the moderator and admin team made a few advisory posts calling that the debate focusses on the issues and various attitudes and avoids personalising the debate with attacks and insults on the individual contributors to the debate. And we would ask that future posts are kept to the topic as well, likewise avoiding insults to individuals. We want the debate to flow freely without any call for our moderation services, but should that ambition fail, please contact the Mod team and we will review post content and act if needed. Welcome once more. Martin
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Dierdra:
A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. ..........................................
Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks.
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oh c'mon guys, calm dawn
i've gone vegan after 10 years of being vegetarian, so i can clearly understand how passionate some of us can be. But i for one get annoyed when a vegetarian assume to be better than anyone else, the same way i get annoyed by an omnivore making fun of my beliefs. Can we go back to a simple discussion without winner or looser? -
Dierdra wrote: A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... .......................................... me2 Learn To Fly Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks. ______________________________________ @ me2 I said "aggressive approaches", and to non vegans, that is virtually anything that makes them think about what they are doing! We vegans only have to "look" at non-vegans to get them going... I was not talking about acts of aggression...but just calling carnists out on the constant brutal murder of animals which happens every single day, across the entire world....simply because of human greed.... And that is considered an "aggressive approach" by carnists... Any words spoken by vegans is ammunition for them to jump up and start a riot...you just don't like being reminded, in any way, of what you support and pay for by your food choices. That is NOT our fault....that is your conscience talking...maybe you should listen to it.... There is nothing vegans can do, beyond treating carnists with kid gloves and gentle words...and we will NOT do that when the stakes are so astronomically high...for ALL the animals who are suffering.
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AMEN to all Jags said AMEN to all Lone Raven said and AMEN to all Dierdra said TRUTH great posts ladies keep telling it as it is
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simplyrahil:
AMEN to all Jags said AMEN to all Lone Raven said and AMEN to all Dierdra said TRUTH great posts ladies keep telling it as it is
They're not the only ones telling it like it is. Calling you out for your insults to me is also telling it like it is also. A militant vegan coworker today said to me, "Don't label me a vegan. I'm not being called a vegan anymore." "Why?" I asked him. "Did some girl you wanted to hook up with get you to eat ice cream?" (A common fall to many militant vegan males) "No. I just don't like the negative connotations with the name. So I'm not going to be called that anymore." "Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet? Would a vegan by any other name preach in a less b*t*h* manner?" I got applause from some of my coworkers. The dude needs an attitude change. (and I'm telling it like it is. He's nothing but a downer all the time)
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simplyrahil:
. the only reason you feel you are some 'champion' on this thread with your obnoxious attitude is because i am outnumbered by those who eat animals on here. .
No, I am simply also telling it like it is even if it's a truth you refuse to face (just as you accuse everyone else of doing). the only name-calling or personal insults I do are simply reflecting yours right back at you and I understand Godwin's law. Also, I don't parrot the same phrases. I speak from the heart (though I make allowances on your part for language differences)
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Dierdra:
I'm new here, but have been following this topic with great interest... A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. .
actual links to reports of these studies is needed. one study conducted in the late 90s said that vegetarians going about living their lives converted more people who noticed their health and asked questions. they found people were more open to hearing them talk about their lifestyle choices when they approached it that way. (I Know I read it in the Detroit News)
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Dierdra:
.You are taking a group of people...vegans...who try to live compassionately and with care and deep concern... towards the most innocent, but horrifically abused and tortured group of beings...animals...and then turning those vegans into your personal kicking posts..
actually, Dierdra, most of the post have been simply telling the vegans to stop turning the rest of the world into their personal kicking post. I've been following this thread, too.
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re: kathryn "They're not the only ones telling it like it is. Calling you out for your insults to me is also telling it like it is also. " show me where i insulted you you have been the insultive, bitter person you just can't take the fact that you are an animal-eater and are perpetuating the murder of animals you eat it, so why is it so hard to accept what you pay for? you don't like hearing it? my stating the facts which aren't palaable to you doesn't make it an INSULT oh being who finds it ok to eat innocent animals yet has such a thin-skin when told about what she pays for. "No, I am simply also telling it like it is even if it's a truth you refuse to face (just as you accuse everyone else of doing). " what truth? you cannot accept that you eat animals and that that is paying for their murder. you cannot accept that fact. all you are 'telling like it is' is stating some attempt at warding off those who are speaking the facts about what you pay for by being openly obnoxious. that also is not an INSULT, dear thin-skinned one, but an OBSERVATION based on your BEHAVIOUR in your posts. get that straight. the point is that you are an animal-eater and you do not want to accept the blood on your hands which you pay for. all animal-eaters are paying for murder. accept that. "Also, I don't parrot the same phrases. I speak from the heart (though I make allowances on your part for language differences)" perhaps you didn't read lone raven's post, but i live in Trinidad, Caribbean. that is stated clearly under my avatar. what makes you think that English is not my first language? the fact that my photo is non-caucasian or that you are uneducated geographically? English is my first language and my display of English on here surpassed yours in every post, so i don't know what you are going on about. yours however requires work. as for 'parrot', i don't know what you are talking about. i speak exactly my own words about the facts, the feelings, the principles and the morals. the 'parrot' title would be appropriate to you instead, because you're the one whose excuses have been repeated by countless animal-eaters vegans have come into contact with for decades. i am totally with 'heart' in this. it is ironic you speak of 'heart' when your posts are so 'heartless' when it comes to the animals or their being simply 'meat' for you. there is nothing more heartless than knowing what goes on, the evil that goes on, and still participating fully knowing.
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Kathryn...I wouldn't trust an ex vegan as far as I could throw one...seriously... You know better but continue to use animals for your own selfish needs...that's wrong and I think you know that, however deep down you have buried it... ""Evil is knowing better....but doing worse." Figure that out for yourself... Do you own google research...it's easy to find the studies I talked about...I won't do your homework for you. That said, a different approach works for different people. That's the way of humans. But I have spoken in person and through website contact with many, many people who have told me, that the graphic photos and videos are what started them thinking about veganism to begin with. Then they want the real life info next...vegan recipes, cruelty free living, non animal tested products, etc.... So I still contend that those graphics work, but should be paired with the other info at some point, to help people understand and have the skills to stop the horror being done to animals... But telling that to you is like talking to a brick wall, as you have already been vegan and then gone back to being cruel to animals for no good reason.......except that you simply don't care about other life forms... The more humane we are to ALL live beings in this world, the faster we will see peace. We cannot keep committing these atrocities on animals and expect that the abuse, torture, mutilation and death is not carrying over into all other parts of our lives. It is, that's a guarantee... Now the question is...why would anyone want to perpetuate that?
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Dierdra:
me2:
Dierdra:
A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. ..........................................
Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks.
@ me2 I said "aggressive approaches", and to non vegans, that is virtually anything that makes them think about what they are doing! We vegans only have to "look" at non-vegans to get them going... I was not talking about acts of aggression...but just calling carnists out on the constant brutal murder of animals which happens every single day, across the entire world....simply because of human greed.... And that is considered an "aggressive approach" by carnists... Any words spoken by vegans is ammunition for them to jump up and start a riot...you just don't like being reminded, in any way, of what you support and pay for by your food choices. That is NOT our fault....that is your conscience talking...maybe you should listen to it.... There is nothing vegans can do, beyond treating carnists with kid gloves and gentle words...and we will NOT do that when the stakes are so astronomically high...for ALL the animals who are suffering.
Unfortunately you didn't answer my question. I was asking you for a link to the studies/articles you mentioned. I would have loved to read them. But they probably don't exist, for you would have mentioned the links if they did. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would stil love to read them.
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simplyrahil:
AMEN to all Jags said AMEN to all Lone Raven said and AMEN to all Dierdra said TRUTH great posts ladies keep telling it as it is
I would like to mention steblap here. To me you are the voice of reason amongst the vegetarians/vegans here steblap. And you are telling it as it is (in your opinion, which applies to all of us) too, without disrespecting others.
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There are some bitter and twisted people on this thread, that need to get a life of their own and not worry about others so much!
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Boggle:
There are some bitter and twisted people on this thread, that need to get a life of their own and not worry about others so much!
the actual bitter and twisted people are those who do not care/worry about LIFE, the lives of innocent animals while consciously paying for their murders and eating their flesh.
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simplyrahil:
re: kathryn "They're not the only ones telling it like it is. Calling you out for your insults to me is also telling it like it is also. " show me where i insulted you you have been the insultive, bitter person .
from the onset and saying things like, "There must be something wrong with you. secondly, you don't know what I eat. you assume I am not a vegan. you assume I am not a vegetarian. You assume I don't eat such foods. Like I said, righteousness is more destructive to both the planet and one's soul. for starters, it blinds one.
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Dierdra:
Kathryn...I wouldn't trust an ex vegan as far as I could throw one...seriously... You know better but continue to use animals for your own selfish needs...that's wrong and I think you know that, however deep down you have buried it... .
Like I said before, every vegan or macrobiotic I knew smoked crack shot heroin, chain smoked and drank themselves into stupors all the time. the hard drugs were too much. I could name names of prominent militant vegans in my community who I was once close too. and the new crop of vegans don't look much better. (Bob is such a killjoy and does not even the things he can to change his situation).
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simplyrahil:
Boggle:
There are some bitter and twisted people on this thread, that need to get a life of their own and not worry about others so much!
the actual bitter and twisted people are those who do not care/worry about LIFE, the lives of innocent animals while consciously paying for their murders and eating their flesh.
same argument against me using birth control. they say I don't care about life. the truth is, I don't want to dump paying for a child on the government and I will not be forced to be a breeder.
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Kathryn O:
simplyrahil:
Boggle:
There are some bitter and twisted people on this thread, that need to get a life of their own and not worry about others so much!
the actual bitter and twisted people are those who do not care/worry about LIFE, the lives of innocent animals while consciously paying for their murders and eating their flesh.
same argument against me using birth control. they say I don't care about life. the truth is, I don't want to dump paying for a child on the government and I will not be forced to be a breeder.
stick to the topic that is hardly an excuse to EAT ANIMALS stop with your excuses accept the murder you pay for up to now you can't do that
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Dierdra:
. But telling that to you is like talking to a brick wall, as you have already been vegan and then gone back to being cruel to animals for no good reason.......except that you simply don't care about other life forms... .
Now there you go making assumptions again and saying crap that isn't even true about me. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION. Dont' tell me I don't care about other life forms. You don't know how I care and in what way and there is more to it then what you think. YOU DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU SAY TO OTHERS and like every other vegan on this thread you just parrot the same phrases over and over again with a smug self-righteousness. That also blinds you to not seeing what is really there. two words why I am not a vegan: Lactofermentation. It's the key to health and longevity. every long-lived person consumed these type of substances. and it changed my health for the better. Now Hippie Bob, the vegan I work with said he made fermented substances without the dairy cultures. When I asked him to give me his recipe so I could pass it on to our customers who might be interested, he said he wasn't interested in sharing his knowledge with customers. talk about not caring. lactofermentation has been the number one non-vegan product most former vegans start buying and here he could prevent that but won't due to self-righteousness. (see what i mean about it being the most negative thing? and see why vegans are so infuriating?)
