Horses May Be Slaughtered For Human Consumption
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hey_kittay:
Well, since I believe in reincarnation maybe people with these beliefs will come back as sheep, and not the ones who live on Paul McCartney's farm.
Somehow you make it sound like reincarnation would be a punishment. But perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. Sorry if I do. I do believe in reincarnation. But I don't believe our next life will be meant as a punishment for what we may have done 'wrong' in this life as the Universe's love is unconditional. I have experienced this love, so noone will ever convince me it isn't unconditional. And unconditional is unconditional. It means there is nothing to be forgiven. We only have to learn to forgive ourselves and love ourselves unconditionally. But of course it is still just my opinion. I do believe we have to learn to open our hearts for the unconditional love that surrounds us and if we don't succeed in doing that in this life, we may have to choose for another life, in whatever form, vegetable, animal or human, that will give us the best opportunity to reach our goal.
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me2:
hey_kittay:
Well, since I believe in reincarnation maybe people with these beliefs will come back as sheep, and not the ones who live on Paul McCartney's farm.
Somehow you make it sound like reincarnation would be a punishment. But perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. Sorry if I do. I do believe in reincarnation. But I don't believe our next life will be meant as a punishment for what we may have done 'wrong' in this life as the Universe's love is unconditional. I have experienced this love, so noone will ever convince me it isn't unconditional. And unconditional is unconditional. It means there is nothing to be forgiven. We only have to learn to forgive ourselves and love ourselves unconditionally. But of course it is still just my opinion. I do believe we have to learn to open our hearts for the unconditional love that surrounds us and if we don't succeed in doing that in this life, we may have to choose for another life, in whatever form, vegetable, animal or human, that will give us the best opportunity to reach our goal.
I think reincarnation is a chance for beings to learn and grow from the beings they were in a previous incarnation to move to maybe a higher plane of existance. A more enlightened being. I do love unconditionally.
I love everyone/everything, despite what I may THINK are less comapassionate ways of thinking or choices by that being. If someone really is so uncaring as they revel in the idea an animal was suffering before it gets to their dinner plate as 'Boggle" seems to enjoy, then yes I think Boggle has a lesson to be learned to become a more enlightened being in the Universe. I feel lighter and happier as a veggie. It is my choice. And I have to live with that choice. Just like it is everyone elses Free Will and the consesquences, if there are any, of their decisions. I can LOVE unconditionally, yet still have a hearty discussion about my views on diverse subjects. I am not passing judgement. I am only a human being afterall. 
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^ 'as you sow, so shall you reap'.. 
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milcon1998 A Peaceful Place PostPosted: 12-03-2011 11:22 AM So eating cows, pigs, etc. is o.k. but you can't eat horses? I'm a long-time vegetarian so I eat neither but I don't see why eating horse meat should be banned and eating cow meat not. ___________________________________________________ Hell yes! This is just speciesism... thinking it's fine to eat one animal but not another......how about they all get a reprieve? http://thethinkingvegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/racismspeciesismsexism1.jpg [/img]
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Dierdra:
milcon1998 A Peaceful Place PostPosted: 12-03-2011 11:22 AM So eating cows, pigs, etc. is o.k. but you can't eat horses? I'm a long-time vegetarian so I eat neither but I don't see why eating horse meat should be banned and eating cow meat not. ___________________________________________________ Hell yes! This is just speciesism... thinking it's fine to eat one animal but not another......how about they all get a reprieve? http://thethinkingvegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/racismspeciesismsexism1.jpg [/img]
" Horses May Be Slaughtered For Human Consumption " I was just writing in this seperate thread about Horses since that is the title and it made me really mad that President Obama lied about NOT letting American horses be slaughtered for human consumption. He signed HR2112 and that is why I am having the discussion along here as when this thread first started Obama had just signed the bill. I do not think it is okay to eat any animal. I don't like the fact my American horses, although I love horses everywhere, are being exported to other countries to be eaten.
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hey_kittay:
. Well, since I believe in reincarnation maybe people with these beliefs will come back as sheep, and not the ones who live on Paul McCartney's farm.
Depends on your view of reincarnation. I believe in Steiner's version: Once you're human, you stay human.
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I have often thought about the ethical arguement of not eating meat, but then I thought "what about eating fish?" then "what about eating vegetables?" then what about buying products that needed a vegetable or animal to be killed... kind of like paper needs a tree to be cut down, what about all the things we buy that are produced abusing people... then all that can one buy would be wrong one way or another...
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I see the Loonies have taken over this thread as well now! If i was a vegetarian i would start eating meat just so i wasn't associated with the extremists on here!
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21st Century Paul:
I have often thought about the ethical arguement of not eating meat, but then I thought "what about eating fish?" then "what about eating vegetables?" then what about buying products that needed a vegetable or animal to be killed... kind of like paper needs a tree to be cut down, what about all the things we buy that are produced abusing people... then all that can one buy would be wrong one way or another...
since you seem 'introspective a bit, isn't it better to lessen one's WRONGS regardless of not being able to be 100% RIGHT? if you used your 'logic' for everything, you'd do NOTHING in your life. and surely you don't do NOTHING in your life. there is surely a line between eating vegetables and paying for the cutting of the throats of screaming, bleeding animals (regardless of species). apart from which, re: your username '21st century Paul' - a '21st century Paul' does exist, the one we celebrate, and he is vegetarian for all the stated-reasons in his songs, words, videos. yes, it is the 21st century and apart from the moral reasons to not kill animals, the planet is also in a very sad, abused state due to the very same animal-killing issues (look it up). yes, it is the 21st century, and all sensible, knowledgeable people have recognized this impact. therefore, live up to your chosen username and really be a '21st century Paul'.
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Boggle:
I see the Loonies have taken over this thread as well now!
yes! but YOU didn't take over quite yet! and we won't allow that anyway.
Boggle:
If i was a vegetarian i would start eating meat just so i wasn't associated with the extremists on here!
no, it would be because of your own addiction, chosen-blindness to the plight of the animals' screams, cries and blood. not because of any 'extremist'. stop trying to attribute your own weakness and failure to comply with basic morality to OTHERS. that's a basic lesson of ADULTHOOD. take responsibility for your own actions. and right now, your chosen action to pay for animals' flesh is YOUR OWN action and choice, a choice which we are advising to come to an end due to all the stated reasons, not only given by us 'extremists' but by SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY HIMSELF. why aren't you listening to him?
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simplyrahil:
21st Century Paul:
I have often thought about the ethical arguement of not eating meat, but then I thought "what about eating fish?" then "what about eating vegetables?" then what about buying products that needed a vegetable or animal to be killed... kind of like paper needs a tree to be cut down, what about all the things we buy that are produced abusing people... then all that can one buy would be wrong one way or another...
since you seem 'introspective a bit, isn't it better to lessen one's WRONGS regardless of not being able to be 100% RIGHT? if you used your 'logic' for everything, you'd do NOTHING in your life. and surely you don't do NOTHING in your life. there is surely a line between eating vegetables and paying for the cutting of the throats of screaming, bleeding animals (regardless of species). apart from which, re: your username '21st century Paul' - a '21st century Paul' does exist, the one we celebrate, and he is vegetarian for all the stated-reasons in his songs, words, videos. yes, it is the 21st century and apart from the moral reasons to not kill animals, the planet is also in a very sad, abused state due to the very same animal-killing issues (look it up). yes, it is the 21st century, and all sensible, knowledgeable people have recognized this impact. therefore, live up to your chosen username and really be a '21st century Paul'.
I wasn't judging anything. I don't say eating and all that is right or wrong. Just seeing the big picture, as I use to you, meaning that if that, meat eating, is wrong then all the rest above is wrong. And I don't think it can be wrong cause saying that of the above is wrong doesn't make much sense to me, but anyway I'm just wondering. It's a bit like when Paul talks about the Meat Free Monday and the relation between meat eating and polution and someone ask Paul about the pollution caused because of his travels on his jet in his world tours. I'm kind of saying that you're both right and wrong or so... There's no way to live in a zero agressive way... and there's no way to live in a zero passive way, you can be assertive that is somewhere in between.
I already am kind of a "21st Century Paul", I explained the reasons of why eating less meat better than Paul himself in a song. I said eating less meat, not stopping eating or stopping eating anything that has been alive. You won't find me cutting the throat of a horse, but you won't find me either being mistreating (sometimes to death) some workers that create products I buy. As you said, I would have to stop doing anything... I don't believe in that. But I agree in one thing, that saying that goes like "the way a society treats his animales shows their degree of evolution" or so... And that includes people, we're some kind of animal. -
21st Century Paul:
I said eating less meat
what's the valid excuse to eat NO ANIMAL? the logic is there. i posed this to you in my original comment. if it is valid to eat 'less' then why stop at 'less' and not totally stop eating animals. the reasons are all there apart from moral reasons. there is NO GOOD reason to eat animals.
21st Century Paul:
You won't find me cutting the throat of a horse
sure, but you have no problem PAYING for it. and THAT's the point. paying for it perpetuates this needless murder of animals (whether it be horse, cow, chicken, goat, pig) which is wrong on so many levels.
21st Century Paul:
And that includes people, we're some kind of animal.
indeed and there are these PEOPLE who sell you that which is poison to the human system (apart from the moral aspect). are they treating PEOPLE kindly by doing that? no. so those who are urging you all to stop eating animals are actually compassionate to humans as well, for this consumption of flesh (not my opinion - backed up by worldwide known medical studies) is detrimental to one's health. THAT is 21st century. so apart from killing the animals, people are killing themselves, yet dare to bring up 'kindness to humans' as an excuse for those who defend animals' lives to not tell you all the facts about it. and you speak of 'kindness to humans' do you know the impact the slaughter of animals industry has on the water resources, vegetation, food supplies to many populations worldwide due to the savage business? you speak of 21st century, get educated on these FACTS, get with the times. THEN you can speak of 'kindness to humans' also as a retort to people defending animals. paying for the killing of animals industry perpetuates not only animal suffering but human suffering as well. that is hardly KIND.
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Some of the extremist don't realize it but they say more about themselves then they do about the other people they are spouting about and towards. and it isn't good.
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Kathryn O:
Some of the extremist don't realize it but they say more about themselves then they do about the other people they are spouting about and towards. and it isn't good.
haha @ 'then they do' and you speak about my English and what do you achieve and portray with all the venom you spout with each post? you somehow feel less guilt by repeating the same diatribe on why it is somehow better to be non-vegan and also somehow hope it makes everyone else feel better and less guilt about eating animals? is that your hope? i can see no other logic in your constant bittersome posts when people are defending animals' right to live and not be murdered for the sake of people's greed and addiction.
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21st Century Paul:
simplyrahil:
21st Century Paul:
I have often thought about the ethical arguement of not eating meat, but then I thought "what about eating fish?" then "what about eating vegetables?" then what about buying products that needed a vegetable or animal to be killed... kind of like paper needs a tree to be cut down, what about all the things we buy that are produced abusing people... then all that can one buy would be wrong one way or another...
since you seem 'introspective a bit, isn't it better to lessen one's WRONGS regardless of not being able to be 100% RIGHT? if you used your 'logic' for everything, you'd do NOTHING in your life. and surely you don't do NOTHING in your life. there is surely a line between eating vegetables and paying for the cutting of the throats of screaming, bleeding animals (regardless of species). apart from which, re: your username '21st century Paul' - a '21st century Paul' does exist, the one we celebrate, and he is vegetarian for all the stated-reasons in his songs, words, videos. yes, it is the 21st century and apart from the moral reasons to not kill animals, the planet is also in a very sad, abused state due to the very same animal-killing issues (look it up). yes, it is the 21st century, and all sensible, knowledgeable people have recognized this impact. therefore, live up to your chosen username and really be a '21st century Paul'.
I wasn't judging anything. I don't say eating and all that is right or wrong. Just seeing the big picture, as I use to you, meaning that if that, meat eating, is wrong then all the rest above is wrong. And I don't think it can be wrong cause saying that of the above is wrong doesn't make much sense to me, but anyway I'm just wondering. It's a bit like when Paul talks about the Meat Free Monday and the relation between meat eating and polution and someone ask Paul about the pollution caused because of his travels on his jet in his world tours. I'm kind of saying that you're both right and wrong or so... There's no way to live in a zero agressive way... and there's no way to live in a zero passive way, you can be assertive that is somewhere in between.
I already am kind of a "21st Century Paul", I explained the reasons of why eating less meat better than Paul himself in a song. I said eating less meat, not stopping eating or stopping eating anything that has been alive. You won't find me cutting the throat of a horse, but you won't find me either being mistreating (sometimes to death) some workers that create products I buy. As you said, I would have to stop doing anything... I don't believe in that. But I agree in one thing, that saying that goes like "the way a society treats his animales shows their degree of evolution" or so... And that includes people, we're some kind of animal.I think it is very interesting how meat eaters try to divert the subject away from their decision to eat meat and talk about Paul's private jets, vegetable abuse, and 3rd world country sweatshops where workers are neglected, etc... trees cut down in the rain forest, etc...very important causes for sure. It makes me think the person writing is trying to justify their eating behaviors by getting the issue all confused and therefore not be accountable for their actions of eating meat or not. TRY to focus and stay on topic. We are discussing why we do or do not eat MEAT and the suffering of animals. If you 21st Century Paul, or others, are concerned with other atrocities then please create a seperate thread. But diverting attention away, or trying to do this just a waste of typing space imo. I do agree however, that how a human treats his/her fellow humans or what some view as 'lesser animals,' is a true measure of their spiritual evolution on this physical plane of existance.
Peace & Love! -
simplyrahil:
Kathryn O:
Some of the extremist don't realize it but they say more about themselves then they do about the other people they are spouting about and towards. and it isn't good.
haha @ 'then they do' and you speak about my English and what do you achieve and portray with all the venom you spout with each post? you somehow feel less guilt by repeating the same diatribe on why it is somehow better to be non-vegan and also somehow hope it makes everyone else feel better and less guilt about eating animals? is that your hope? i can see no other logic in your constant bittersome posts when people are defending animals' right to live and not be murdered for the sake of people's greed and addiction.
because first of all, there is no bitterness in my post. (and I was saying I was being courteous about your English). There is only explaining to you what is wrong with your posts and what might make them be more effective (remember, I've converted more then you to trying and eating vegan food) but you also keep saying to look to Paul's message. His current one is about going veggie once a day or part time for those that can do it if it's easier for them. That is not your message. and I have no guilt. I long ago stopped feeling that emotion and don't anymore. and it's not just greed and addiction but much more complicated then the simplistic views you spout.
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hey_kittay:
. I think it is very interesting how meat eaters try to divert the subject away from their decision to eat meat and talk about Paul's private jets, vegetable abuse, and 3rd world country sweatshops where workers are neglected, etc... trees cut down in the rain forest, etc...very important causes for sure. It makes me think the person writing is trying to justify their eating behaviors by getting the issue all confused and therefore not be accountable for their actions of eating meat or not. TRY to focus and stay on topic. We are discussing why we do or do not eat MEAT and the suffering of animals. If you 21st Century Paul, or others, are concerned with other atrocities then please create a seperate thread. But diverting attention away, or trying to do this just a waste of typing space imo. I do agree however, that how a human treats his/her fellow humans or what some view as 'lesser animals,' is a true measure of their spiritual evolution on this physical plane of existance.
Peace & Love!For some of us, they are related. the Vegan Holy Man Felice in Detroit, responsible for many of us even learning about veganism, treats people like crap and turned many off to the concept for decades. (He's outgrown that. Now he treats us bad due to our astrological charts) Also, for some of us, the issues are very intertwined. I gave up veganism and animal rights when I noticed the same arguments were used by pro Life movements to deny me birth control (as well as all the other things they deny). also, rather then diverting the thread, I see some obnoxious folks who found they chased away several who wanted to discuss the issue on another thread and are just hijacking this thread with the same circular arguments. THAT'S NOT DIVERTING THE THREAD? It is to me, and it was the veggies who started doing it here. (Go back and read the post. I believe this thread is still intact.) SO, THE VEGGIES DO IT TOO.
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Kathryn O:
hey_kittay:
. I think it is very interesting how meat eaters try to divert the subject away from their decision to eat meat and talk about Paul's private jets, vegetable abuse, and 3rd world country sweatshops where workers are neglected, etc... trees cut down in the rain forest, etc...very important causes for sure. It makes me think the person writing is trying to justify their eating behaviors by getting the issue all confused and therefore not be accountable for their actions of eating meat or not. TRY to focus and stay on topic. We are discussing why we do or do not eat MEAT and the suffering of animals. If you 21st Century Paul, or others, are concerned with other atrocities then please create a seperate thread. But diverting attention away, or trying to do this just a waste of typing space imo. I do agree however, that how a human treats his/her fellow humans or what some view as 'lesser animals,' is a true measure of their spiritual evolution on this physical plane of existance.
Peace & Love!For some of us, they are related. the Vegan Holy Man Felice in Detroit, responsible for many of us even learning about veganism, treats people like crap and turned many off to the concept for decades. (He's outgrown that. Now he treats us bad due to our astrological charts) Also, for some of us, the issues are very intertwined. I gave up veganism and animal rights when I noticed the same arguments were used by pro Life movements to deny me birth control (as well as all the other things they deny). also, rather then diverting the thread, I see some obnoxious folks who found they chased away several who wanted to discuss the issue on another thread and are just hijacking this thread with the same circular arguments. THAT'S NOT DIVERTING THE THREAD? It is to me, and it was the veggies who started doing it here. (Go back and read the post. I believe this thread is still intact.) SO, THE VEGGIES DO IT TOO.
Well I stand corrected on your behalf. In my view being a veggie/non-veggie is about either: 1.) eating meat 2.) not eating meat I don't intertwine anyone else's beliefs or attitudes or other causes with the simple choice I outlined above. But that is just me. I am not a veggie for Paul or anyone. I am a veggie for myself and there is no guilt behind it...only compassion, and my body feels much healthier and my spirit lighter. Peace & Love!
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Kathryn O:
and I have no guilt. I long ago stopped feeling that emotion and don't anymore.
ah that would explain A LOT please have that checked out.. one of the symptoms of a known mental disorder 'psychopathy' is 'lack of guilt'..
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simplyrahil:
21st Century Paul:
I said eating less meat
what's the valid excuse to eat NO ANIMAL? the logic is there. i posed this to you in my original comment. if it is valid to eat 'less' then why stop at 'less' and not totally stop eating animals. the reasons are all there apart from moral reasons. there is NO GOOD reason to eat animals.
21st Century Paul:
You won't find me cutting the throat of a horse
sure, but you have no problem PAYING for it. and THAT's the point. paying for it perpetuates this needless murder of animals (whether it be horse, cow, chicken, goat, pig) which is wrong on so many levels.
21st Century Paul:
And that includes people, we're some kind of animal.
indeed and there are these PEOPLE who sell you that which is poison to the human system (apart from the moral aspect). are they treating PEOPLE kindly by doing that? no. so those who are urging you all to stop eating animals are actually compassionate to humans as well, for this consumption of flesh (not my opinion - backed up by worldwide known medical studies) is detrimental to one's health. THAT is 21st century. so apart from killing the animals, people are killing themselves, yet dare to bring up 'kindness to humans' as an excuse for those who defend animals' lives to not tell you all the facts about it. and you speak of 'kindness to humans' do you know the impact the slaughter of animals industry has on the water resources, vegetation, food supplies to many populations worldwide due to the savage business? you speak of 21st century, get educated on these FACTS, get with the times. THEN you can speak of 'kindness to humans' also as a retort to people defending animals. paying for the killing of animals industry perpetuates not only animal suffering but human suffering as well. that is hardly KIND.
:furthemore, as for KINDNESS towards humans (since that is the latest cop out being tried)
[imghttp://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m18l5offHa1qjwq58o1_500.jpg[/img] 
like i said, hardly KIND..
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![http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m18l5offHa1qjwq58o1_500.jpg[/img]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m18l5offHa1qjwq58o1_500.jpg%5B/img%5D){kind=link}