The ..2012.... Political thread
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PHILLIP:
But you didn't counter it, you just made some remark about the 35th President. You said: My origingal post still stands, if Obama is the democrat party nominee, the white Republican will be the next President. My counter: I am not as certain as you seem to be about that election. my counter to your previous list of personal gripes about the kennedys was this: What you've mentioned about the kennedys has no relevance imo about the tenure of the 35th president. You are still not making any sense. I give up...again.
Capesh?
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jaipur:
PHILLIP:
But you didn't counter it, you just made some remark about the 35th President. You said: My origingal post still stands, if Obama is the democrat party nominee, the white Republican will be the next President. My counter: I am not as certain as you seem to be about that election. my counter to your previous list of personal gripes about the kennedys was this: What you've mentioned about the kennedys has no relevance imo about the tenure of the 35th president. You are still not making any sense. I give up...again.
Capesh?
I capesh that you actually think you countered my statement but it was really just an observation. Capesh. You didn't provide any facts to prove whatever you were trying to say about JFK's tenure, and you said you were not certain the outcome of the election, nothing about the black and white statement. You are just making observations about what I wrote, nothing of substance from you. Capesh?
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jaipur:
Bill, do you really believe that in a campaign or in the white house candidates/presidents write their own speeches?
In this day and age, it's a plus if they can actually understand them. Check out the ones who remain eloquent when the script gets thrown out. On that score, Obama leads the pack on both sides. btw, I've missed you in this section.
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I am simply going to state my opinion outside of the ongoing discussion here. It doesn't matter to me what sex or color the candidate is. What matters to me is their experience. Obama is a first term U.S. Senator who took office in January 2005. That's a mere three years ago. He then went on to announce his bid for the Presidency almost a year ago in February 2007 so 1/3 of his term as a freshman Senator has been spent running for President rather than getting his feet wet and earning his chops in Washington D.C.. What's Obama's rush? I think that he is not experienced enough to hold the highest U.S. office. Also, whether you use the Bible or the Koran to take the oath of office is irrelevant but at least put your hand over your heart when the National Anthem of the country of which you want to be President is played. I can't believe so many people are buying into the candidacy of someone this inexperienced. If he were to be elected I think it would be at the country's expense and this country has suffered enough in recent years. I'm not looking for a full scale discussion or debate here, I am just stating my opinion.
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The thing about experience is that there's quantity and there's quality. Obama's relatively short time in Washington means that he's the most in touch with real people and families. I'd wager he would be the one who is most familiar with what a supermarket looks like and what it's for. The more time someone has had in politics (and don't forget Obama's time as a state senator), the more time they have to lose touch with real people. Hillary actually came out and said that she takes money from lobbyists because they represent the American people. Well sorry Hillary, but I thought representing the American people was YOUR job and one that you're already paid handsomely for. So if you want someone who has been out of touch with real life for 30 years and only knows how to play the same old political game, then vote for someone with "experience." If you want someone who is not merely a political robot, with fresh ideas and represents a genuine change, then vote for the candidate with life experience, not political experience.
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What about patriotism, Bill?
: Do you salute Australia's flag when your country's national anthem is played? : I hope you do. A fundamental gesture of patriotism has to factor in when a person is a candidate for the highest office in the land. -
Bill:
jaipur:
Bill, do you really believe that in a campaign or in the white house candidates/presidents write their own speeches?
In this day and age, it's a plus if they can actually understand them. Check out the ones who remain eloquent when the script gets thrown out. On that score, Obama leads the pack on both sides. btw, I've missed you in this section.
Harvard Law does that...some better than others. Nice to know someone missed me
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I wouldn't take the email going around about Obama at face value. btw, I should think that if Cheney had to switch to a koran to swear him in, you would've heard about that before now.
The issue of experience is a relevant one. I'm not convinced yet that he has developed enough cache within congress to actually get anything done even if he was elected. -
jaipur:
The issue of experience is a relevant one. I'm not convinced yet that he has developed enough cache within congress to actually get anything done even if he was elected.
Probably true -- that Country Club they have in Washington D.C. does seem to have its own set of rules and values -- The you scratch my back and possibly I will see that one day your back will be scratched -- of course he now has Kennedy and Kerry blocking for him -- so he should be able to get a few yards
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Fan Since 1964:
What about patriotism, Bill?
: Do you salute Australia's flag when your country's national anthem is played? : I hope you do. A fundamental gesture of patriotism has to factor in when a person is a candidate for the highest office in the land. Meaningless gestures. Any idiot can put their hand on their heart and pull a solemn face when the anthem is played. It is not any indication of wise leadership. Or even patriotism. It only gives the appearance of patriotism. Is the willingness to put one's life on the line to serve one's country (Obama has received several death threats - guess why) not patriotic enough? Besides that, Jaipur is right - that anonymous chain email (a very patriotic thing to do) is a complete lie. And I would very much like to meet the person who decides their vote based on who Ted Kennedy likes.
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jaipur:
I wouldn't take the email going around about Obama at face value. btw, I should think that if Cheney had to switch to a koran to swear him in, you would've heard about that before now.
Did Cheney actually touch the Bible? I heard it burns him if he does.
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Cheney, now there is someone with lots of experience
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mustangsally10:
Cheney, now there is someone with lots of experience
armed n dangerous!
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Hello Bill, I made no reference to an e-mail about Obama. My opinion is based on how long he has been in the U.S. Senate and the fact that I saw him disrespect the flag. If any idiot can put his hand over his heart and give the appearence of patriotism why didn't Obama at least give the appearence of a patrioic act? He had to know the eyes of the country and possibly the world were on him and a flap would ensue. Even though you live in Australia, does the U.S. Election matter to you? I'm not being sarcastic. I am just curious.
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I wonder if all the Candidates ran an actual race Who would really have the stamina and are in shape to make it to the finish line. I think if that were a criteria we would have had a different Vice President in office. Love doris.
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Fan Since 1964:
Hello Bill, I made no reference to an e-mail about Obama. My opinion is based on how long he has been in the U.S. Senate and the fact that I saw him disrespect the flag. If any idiot can put his hand over his heart and give the appearence of patriotism why didn't Obama at least give the appearence of a patrioic act? He had to know the eyes of the country and possibly the world were on him and a flap would ensue. Even though you live in Australia, does the U.S. Election matter to you? I'm not being sarcastic. I am just curious.
Obama's patriotism should not be questioned. He has made it clear himself that he has no use for meaningless symbols of patriotism and prefers to express his patriotism by actually doing good for his country. It's the same reason he doesn't wear a flag lapel badge - because a badge is not a symbol of a patriot, it's a symbol of someone who wants to look like a patriot. It's the same as someone going to church for an hour on Sunday and being a complete cretin for the rest of the week. Who is the better Christian, the one who wears the cross and sings the hymns, or the one who goes out and does good for his fellow man? Wearing a cross doesn't make one a Christian and saluting the flag doesn't make one a patriot. You mentioned being sworn in on the Koran. Since Obama is not, nor has he ever been, a Muslim, there is no reason to even bring it up unless you were referring to an anonymous email which falsely claimed Obama was sworn in to the Senate on the Koran. He was not. As for my interest in US politics, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't seen the other dozen times I've been asked that question here. Let me put it his way: what does the "Coalition of the Willing?" mean to you? It's the politically correct term for all the other countries (and there are still a couple) that wanted to help America by going to war with them. So as long as soldiers from my country are fighting America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, so long as US bases are in my country (you'd be blind in the southern hemisphere without them), so long as the US markets effect my economy and so long that the US attempts to influence the running of every other country it's ever heard of, then I will comment on US politics. In summary, when America minds its own business, so will I. Indeed, I AM minding my own business by commenting because it's in my interest and my country's interest that America doesn't elect another yahoo who will going around starting more wars that my country will be dragged along in. And I will issue to you the same invitation I give to everyone who says, "Hey Bill, you're Australian anyway, what do you care?" that if you want to pass any comment on Australian politics or government, positive or negative, then bring it on.
Are you up to that challenge? -
I'm sorry if the above post sounds kind of snippy.
ops: It just gets tiresome being asked the same question every time. Think about it this way: If I say the phrase "The leader of the free world," who do you think of? If you answered, The president of the United States, then there's your answer. I live in the free world and I didn't vote for Bush. What's more, I didn't get to vote against him. Yet people keep talking about this person who I neither voted for or against as if he somehow runs my country too. How does that work? Then when I pass comment on it, people say, "You're Australian, what's it to you?" I'm not talking about you here Fan, but make your minds up people! You can't have it both ways. If this election were simply about what level the top income tax bracket kicks in at and whether there should be seatbelts on school buses, then you wouldn't hear much from me. -
Sometimes if you are in the middle of something , you cannot see what is going on.......where as someone on the outside, looking in, can see everything clearly. You talk more sense than most people ...carry on Bill .
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Actually I am glad to see Bill take an interest - from the posts I have seen from him on the subject (politics) - he is more informed than many people I know. (I may not agree with him at times -- usually he supports his case very well. You are always welcome in this thread Bill.
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Bill:
Obama's patriotism should not be questioned. He has made it clear himself that he has no use for meaningless symbols of patriotism and prefers to express his patriotism by actually doing good for his country. It's the same reason he doesn't wear a flag lapel badge - because a badge is not a symbol of a patriot, it's a symbol of someone who wants to look like a patriot. It's the same as someone going to church for an hour on Sunday and being a complete cretin for the rest of the week. Who is the better Christian, the one who wears the cross and sings the hymns, or the one who goes out and does good for his fellow man? Wearing a cross doesn't make one a Christian and saluting the flag doesn't make one a patriot. You mentioned being sworn in on the Koran. Since Obama is not, nor has he ever been, a Muslim, there is no reason to even bring it up unless you were referring to an anonymous email which falsely claimed Obama was sworn in to the Senate on the Koran. He was not. As for my interest in US politics, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't seen the other dozen times I've been asked that question here. Let me put it his way: what does the "Coalition of the Willing?" mean to you? It's the politically correct term for all the other countries (and there are still a couple) that wanted to help America by going to war with them. So as long as soldiers from my country are fighting America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, so long as US bases are in my country (you'd be blind in the southern hemisphere without them), so long as the US markets effect my economy and so long that the US attempts to influence the running of every other country it's ever heard of, then I will comment on US politics. In summary, when America minds its own business, so will I. Indeed, I AM minding my own business by commenting because it's in my interest and my country's interest that America doesn't elect another yahoo who will going around starting more wars that my country will be dragged along in. And I will issue to you the same invitation I give to everyone who says, "Hey Bill, you're Australian anyway, what do you care?" that if you want to pass any comment on Australian politics or government, positive or negative, then bring it on.
Are you up to that challenge? Very well put, Bill! The actions of the US have a definite impact on other countries, so they, and you, have a right to be interested and concerned. When Bush was reelected in 2004, a college student started a website titled "Sorry Everybody" and it consisted of photos of Americans with written apologies to the rest of the world for Bush's reelection. Many of the photos were very creative and a book was published based on them. I don't know if the website is still in place.
