Family tree....
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This is a long shot but here goes...
my dad died a few years ago and i've just started looking at creating the family tree. When he was young he remembered on at least a couple of occasions playing with a "quiet" lad called paul mccartney when he was brought to a pub where my dad lived, in the company of someone called "aunty dill".
my dad also believed that aunty dill was related to or at least known to his/our family, and indeed he also referred to her as aunty dill. He later remembers her saying that paul would often "send a car around" when the Beatles were playing nearby!!.My dad wasnt one to exaggerate or make up stories. I've done some digging and worked out that Dill was actually Hannah Dilys Jones and she married paul's uncle bill mohin (actually named owen michael mohin, bill was a nickname) but i cant find out anything about Dill's family. She has now passed away.
i'm intrigued to find out if dad/dill were related, but noone left on dad's side to ask. Short of asking paul himself - and even if i could i'm sure he's got more important things to worry about- i've come to a grinding halt. Hence this post. If anybody does have any useful info it would be appreciated (and held in confidence, obviously.)
cheers
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I've just been doing some research on this subject but find myself going around in circles a bit.
Based only on the information you have given, this is what we know for certain.
Owen Michael Mohin (b 15th July 1917 - d, Q1 1970) married Hannah D. Jones in Holywell, Flintshire, Wales in 1945.
Now, assuming they married in the brides parish (as tradition dictates), there is a Hannah D. Jones born Q1 1917 in Holywell (mothers surname in Davies).
Other children born Holywell, during in this era, with Jones as a surname (and with the mothers maiden name given as Davies) include: John D Jones (1916), Margaret G.D. Jones (1917), Trevor D. Jones (1918), John D. Jones (1919) and Hannah M.L. Jones (1922).
Given how common Jones and Davies are as Welsh surnames, we're probably looking at two seperate but related families here. To have two sisters called Hannah and two brothers called John would be very unusual. And there is no evidence that the first Hannah or the first John had died before their siblings. Margaret and (our) hannah would also have had to be twins unless they are from different families.
Assuming your father isn't a Jones (you didn't give his name), I think the next step should be to look for marriages of Margaret G.D Jones & Hannah M.L Jones to see if they married a man who's surname links with your own paternal line. However, as Hannah M.L. Jones is probably from a different family to Hannah D. Jones, I think Margaret G.D Jones is the most interesting name at the moment.
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Have you gotten on ancestry.com? I've found several relatives through them.
And check this out:
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Kestrel wrote:
I've just been doing some research on this subject but find myself going around in circles a bit.
Based only on the information you have given, this is what we know for certain.
Owen Michael Mohin (b 15th July 1917 - d, Q1 1970) married Hannah D. Jones in Holywell, Flintshire, Wales in 1945.
Now, assuming they married in the brides parish (as tradition dictates), there is a Hannah D. Jones born Q1 1917 in Holywell (mothers surname in Davies).
Other children born Holywell, during in this era, with Jones as a surname (and with the mothers maiden name given as Davies) include: John D Jones (1916), Margaret G.D. Jones (1917), Trevor D. Jones (1918), John D. Jones (1919) and Hannah M.L. Jones (1922).
Given how common Jones and Davies are as Welsh surnames, we're probably looking at two seperate but related families here. To have two sisters called Hannah and two brothers called John would be very unusual. And there is no evidence that the first Hannah or the first John had died before their siblings. Margaret and (our) hannah would also have had to be twins unless they are from different families.
Assuming your father isn't a Jones (you didn't give his name), I think the next step should be to look for marriages of Margaret G.D Jones & Hannah M.L Jones to see if they married a man who's surname links with your own paternal line. However, as Hannah M.L. Jones is probably from a different family to Hannah D. Jones, I think Margaret G.D Jones is the most interesting name at the moment.
Thank you so much for the reply. Very helpful. My Dad's name was Brian Lloyd, later Brian Lloyd Jones, and was born in 1941. He had a younger half brother (David Howard Jones), and their mum was Winifred Thomas (nee Harrison). David's father was a chap called Owen - Jones was the surname I believe.
My dad met Paul as a kid at "The White Lion" in Mold, my brother says. He also says that Dad was sure of the familial link to Aunty Dill. I'll have to do some further digging, but thanks again...!
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Nancy R wrote:
Have you gotten on ancestry.com? I've found several relatives through them.
And check this out:
Thanks Nancy. I've got a basic ancestry.com account, will have to splash out on a subscription and see what I can find
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Mike, so your dad took the surname of his step-father? If his biological father's surname was Floyd, and this Owen Jones is the one related to Hannah D. Jones, then you aren't biologically related to her. It would be a step-situation. But still, very cool about meeting Paul and about "Auntie Dil."
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Mike, in case you don't have this info:
Owen Mohin, born 1880, died 1933 married Mary Theresa Danher, born 1877, died 18 Jan 1919 in Apr. 1905
They had 5 children:
1. Wilfred b. 3 Oct 1908 d. 1991, married Madge ______(?)
2. Mary Patricia b. 29 Sept 1909 d. 31 Oct 1956, married James McCartney b. 7 July 1902 d. 18 Mar 1976 on 15 Apr 1941
3. Agnes May b. 26 May 1915 d. 6 Feb 1918
4. Owen Michael (Bill) b. 15 July 1917 d. 1970, married Hannah Dilys Jones in 1945
5. baby born 18 Jan 1919 (both mother Mary and baby died)
Owen remarried 2nd wife Rose who had 2 children. She died in 1948.
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Nancy R wrote:
Mike, in case you don't have this info:
Owen Mohin, born 1880, died 1933 married Mary Theresa Danher, born 1877, died 18 Jan 1919 in Apr. 1905
They had 5 children:
1. Wilfred b. 3 Oct 1908 d. 1991, married Madge ______(?)
2. Mary Patricia b. 29 Sept 1909 d. 31 Oct 1956, married James McCartney b. 7 July 1902 d. 18 Mar 1976 on 15 Apr 1941
3. Agnes May b. 26 May 1915 d. 6 Feb 1918
4. Owen Michael (Bill) b. 15 July 1917 d. 1970, married Hannah Dilys Jones in 1945
5. baby born 18 Jan 1919 (both mother Mary and baby died)
Owen remarried 2nd wife Rose who had 2 children. She died in 1948.
Thanks Nancy - yes my guess is that Owen Jones was probably Aunty Dill's brother. Nice to know for sure so will try digging further
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Mikelj wrote:
Nancy R wrote:
Mike, in case you don't have this info:
Owen Mohin, born 1880, died 1933 married Mary Theresa Danher, born 1877, died 18 Jan 1919 in Apr. 1905
They had 5 children:
1. Wilfred b. 3 Oct 1908 d. 1991, married Madge ______(?)
2. Mary Patricia b. 29 Sept 1909 d. 31 Oct 1956, married James McCartney b. 7 July 1902 d. 18 Mar 1976 on 15 Apr 1941
3. Agnes May b. 26 May 1915 d. 6 Feb 1918
4. Owen Michael (Bill) b. 15 July 1917 d. 1970, married Hannah Dilys Jones in 1945
5. baby born 18 Jan 1919 (both mother Mary and baby died)
Owen remarried 2nd wife Rose who had 2 children. She died in 1948.
Thanks Nancy - yes my guess is that Owen Jones was probably Aunty Dill's brother. Nice to know for sure so will try digging further
Got it !! That's exactly what happened. Your paternal grandmother, Winifred Lloyd (nee Harrison) remarried (1950) to a Owen Jones (b. 1926 Holywell) . His sister was Hannah Dilys Jones (b. 1917 Holywell) married Owen Michael Mohin (1917 West Derby - 1951). Owen Mohin was the brother of Mary Patricia Mohin (1909 - 1956), who married James McCartney, who were the parents of Paul McCartney.
Just to back track slightly for confirmation, Owen Jones & Hannah Dilys Jones mother had the same maiden name, Davies. Owen Michael Mohin and Mary Patricia Mohin's mothers had the same surname, Danher.
None of this is 100% of course but on balance I think its reasonably certain thats the connection. There is a stronger relationship in your family between your step-uncle David and Paul, who (I think) would have been second cousins.
Any children of Owen Mohin and Hannah Dilys Jones would have been first cousins of David, and step-first cousins of your Dad. But with Paul being their nephew, I think that makes him a second cousin. I'll need to work that all out in a chart. But that's your claim to fame, your step-uncle David and Paul McCartney shared the same auntie Dilys !!
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Kestrel wrote:
Mikelj wrote:
Nancy R wrote:
Mike, in case you don't have this info:
Owen Mohin, born 1880, died 1933 married Mary Theresa Danher, born 1877, died 18 Jan 1919 in Apr. 1905
They had 5 children:
1. Wilfred b. 3 Oct 1908 d. 1991, married Madge ______(?)
2. Mary Patricia b. 29 Sept 1909 d. 31 Oct 1956, married James McCartney b. 7 July 1902 d. 18 Mar 1976 on 15 Apr 1941
3. Agnes May b. 26 May 1915 d. 6 Feb 1918
4. Owen Michael (Bill) b. 15 July 1917 d. 1970, married Hannah Dilys Jones in 1945
5. baby born 18 Jan 1919 (both mother Mary and baby died)
Owen remarried 2nd wife Rose who had 2 children. She died in 1948.
Thanks Nancy - yes my guess is that Owen Jones was probably Aunty Dill's brother. Nice to know for sure so will try digging further
Got it !! That's exactly what happened. Your paternal grandmother, Winifred Lloyd (nee Harrison) remarried (1950) to a Owen Jones (b. 1926 Holywell) . His sister was Hannah Dilys Jones (b. 1917 Holywell) married Owen Michael Mohin (1917 West Derby - 1951). Owen Mohin was the brother of Mary Patricia Mohin (1909 - 1956), who married James McCartney, who were the parents of Paul McCartney.
Just to back track slightly for confirmation, Owen Jones & Hannah Dilys Jones mother had the same maiden name, Davies. Owen Michael Mohin and Mary Patricia Mohin's mothers had the same surname, Danher.
None of this is 100% of course but on balance I think its reasonably certain thats the connection. There is a stronger relationship in your family between your step-uncle David and Paul, who (I think) would have been second cousins.
Any children of Owen Mohin and Hannah Dilys Jones would have been first cousins of David, and step-first cousins of your Dad. But with Paul being their nephew, I think that makes him a second cousin. I'll need to work that all out in a chart. But that's your claim to fame, your step-uncle David and Paul McCartney shared the same auntie Dilys !!
THANK YOU! You are an absolute star! Very much appreciate your help, best wishes Mike
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Mikelj wrote:
THANK YOU! You are an absolute star! Very much appreciate your help, best wishes Mike
You're very welcome, I enjoyed the challenge.I've been an amatuer family historian for 20 years now so its always good to get stuck into something different to research.
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That is so great that you both were able to get that info for Mike.
I would have suggested he try to contact Paul's brother Mike. I'm not sure if Paul's Robbins cousins could have been of help, I think they're entangled in the Mohin/Dahner family tree as well
but I think what you've found for him has been very helpful.I'm into family history and genealogy as well (have traced my family tree back pretty far) so enjoy doing research and helping people find their roots.
Anyway, it's great you were able to get the right information to him so quickly.
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Kestrel wrote:
Mikelj wrote:
Nancy R wrote:
Mike, in case you don't have this info:
Owen Mohin, born 1880, died 1933 married Mary Theresa Danher, born 1877, died 18 Jan 1919 in Apr. 1905
They had 5 children:
1. Wilfred b. 3 Oct 1908 d. 1991, married Madge ______(?)
2. Mary Patricia b. 29 Sept 1909 d. 31 Oct 1956, married James McCartney b. 7 July 1902 d. 18 Mar 1976 on 15 Apr 1941
3. Agnes May b. 26 May 1915 d. 6 Feb 1918
4. Owen Michael (Bill) b. 15 July 1917 d. 1970, married Hannah Dilys Jones in 1945
5. baby born 18 Jan 1919 (both mother Mary and baby died)
Owen remarried 2nd wife Rose who had 2 children. She died in 1948.
Thanks Nancy - yes my guess is that Owen Jones was probably Aunty Dill's brother. Nice to know for sure so will try digging further
Got it !! That's exactly what happened. Your paternal grandmother, Winifred Lloyd (nee Harrison) remarried (1950) to a Owen Jones (b. 1926 Holywell) . His sister was Hannah Dilys Jones (b. 1917 Holywell) married Owen Michael Mohin (1917 West Derby - 1951). Owen Mohin was the brother of Mary Patricia Mohin (1909 - 1956), who married James McCartney, who were the parents of Paul McCartney.
Just to back track slightly for confirmation, Owen Jones & Hannah Dilys Jones mother had the same maiden name, Davies. Owen Michael Mohin and Mary Patricia Mohin's mothers had the same surname, Danher.
None of this is 100% of course but on balance I think its reasonably certain thats the connection. There is a stronger relationship in your family between your step-uncle David and Paul, who (I think) would have been second cousins.
Any children of Owen Mohin and Hannah Dilys Jones would have been first cousins of David, and step-first cousins of your Dad. But with Paul being their nephew, I think that makes him a second cousin. I'll need to work that all out in a chart. But that's your claim to fame, your step-uncle David and Paul McCartney shared the same auntie Dilys
If Hannah Dilys Jones was married to Owen Mohin (Mary's brother), any children she had (biological or step) would be 1st cousin to PAUL. Owen Jones is not biologically related to Paul at all. Second cousins are the kids of 1st cousins. So Auntie Dil's grandkids are 2nd cousins to Paul's kids.
Sorry. Will try another post!
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Kestrel & Mike, Sorry, post got all messed up and couldn't fix it. Just trying to wrap my head around this.
Yes, Paul is a nephew to Dil & Owen Mohin, but is no true relation to Owen Jones.
Personal example: my mom had a sister. She married a man who had a brother. I met him and his family once, but his kids are not my cousins - no blood relation.
Your last statement is mostly true (David was a half-uncle)
But that's your claim to fame, your step-uncle David and Paul McCartney shared the same auntie Dilys !!
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Nancy R wrote:
Yes, Paul is a nephew to Dil & Owen Mohin, but is no true relation to Owen Jones.
Personal example: my mom had a sister. She married a man who had a brother. I met him and his family once, but his kids are not my cousins - no blood relation.
That is true through all family trees where ancestors are related either through the bloodline or through marriage. At one time I had seven 'uncle and aunts' but of each pair, I was only truly related to one of them, the other I was related to by marriage. Not that it mattered as I treated them both the same because young children aren't interested in the mechanics of bloodlines and marriages.
To MIke's dad, auntie Dil was as much an auntie as ....a genuine auntie would be.
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Thanks both
Dad spoke very fondly of Aunty Dill, that I do remember. I wonder if Dill and Owen had any kids, out of interest?
My step-uncle David is still alive I think, and living somewhere in Thailand. I have an old email address for him which I used to let him know his Mum (Winifred) had passed away back in 2012. I'll try an email to him to see what his memories are of Dill (and the Beatles connection). If he replies will post back.
Cheers
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Kestrel wrote:
Nancy R wrote:
Yes, Paul is a nephew to Dil & Owen Mohin, but is no true relation to Owen Jones.
Personal example: my mom had a sister. She married a man who had a brother. I met him and his family once, but his kids are not my cousins - no blood relation.
That is true through all family trees where ancestors are related either through the bloodline or through marriage. At one time I had seven 'uncle and aunts' but of each pair, I was only truly related to one of them, the other I was related to by marriage. Not that it mattered as I treated them both the same because young children aren't interested in the mechanics of bloodlines and marriages.
To MIke's dad, auntie Dil was as much an auntie as ....a genuine auntie would be.
Yes, of course, because she was sister to his half-brother's father, who was his (Brian's) step-father and apparently Brian even took the last name Jones. Very close relationship.
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Mikelj wrote:
Thanks both
Dad spoke very fondly of Aunty Dill, that I do remember. I wonder if Dill and Owen had any kids, out of interest?
My step-uncle David is still alive I think, and living somewhere in Thailand. I have an old email address for him which I used to let him know his Mum (Winifred) had passed away back in 2012. I'll try an email to him to see what his memories are of Dill (and the Beatles connection). If he replies will post back.
Cheers
Don't know if you and Kestrel read this because it looked like part of Kestrel's post:
If Hannah Dilys Jones was married to Owen Mohin (Mary's brother), any children she had (biological or step) would be 1st cousin to PAUL. Owen Jones is not biologically related to Paul at all. Second cousins are the kids of 1st cousins. So Auntie Dil's grandkids are 2nd cousins to Paul's kids.
Any children of Auntie Dil and Owen Mohin would also of course be 1st cousins to David and step-1st cousins to Brian (since they share no DNA)
And Mike, David is not your step-uncle, he is your half-uncle because he is your dad's half-brother.
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Nancy R wrote:
Any children of Auntie Dil and Owen Mohin would also of course be 1st cousins to David and step-1st cousins to Brian (since they share no DNA)
They appeared to have had one son* (birth registered Q4 1946) who is / was Paul's 1st cousin too. Sadly Owen Mohin died relatively young after only 5 years of marriage.
* I'm withholding his name for privacy reasons as its quite possible the gentleman is still alive.
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A gentleman with the same name and birth year passed away in 2018 in Las Vegas. Quite possibly him.
