How much did Brian's death affect the course of the Beatles?
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It seems the story of the Beatles takes a serious turn to the negative once Brian passed away. However, just want to hear opinions on how much you believe his death played a roll with the course of the Beatles from that point going forward (artistically wonderful, but from a business and personal point of view...too a serious turn down)...Since I can only view this in hindsight, I'd like to know whether there was a gradual change within the internal make up of the Beatles, or if they were lost right off the bat...or do you feel it played little part, and their growing apart was going to happen regardless? The reason I question it is because while many biographies point to this event as something significant (aside from the personal loss/tragedy), I've not heard the actual ex Beatles talk about it...as a matter of fact, I've heard Paul talk about Brian more so in terms of debunking the 'John Lennon/Brian Epstein had an affair' myth than anything concerning his death
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As John Lennon so famously said they were "f...ed." If Brian had not died things would have gone a lot smoother. And Paul wouldn't have had to step in and try to "manage" them. (MMT might never have happened, or it might have been a big hit) They might have even stayed together longer.
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In my opinion, when Brian died, that was the beginning of the end for THE BEATLES. If Brian had lived, the result would have been the same only it would have taken longer.
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Perhaps the biggest reason for their breakup (so early). Apple certainly would have been managed better. No Allen Klein, which meant no personal riff between John & Paul regarding management & money. They still probably would have broken up, but maybe not until their creativity well as a group ran dry (mid 70s).
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Nancy R:
As John Lennon so famously said they were "f...ed." If Brian had not died things would have gone a lot smoother. And Paul wouldn't have had to step in and try to "manage" them. (MMT might never have happened, or it might have been a big hit) They might have even stayed together longer.
You raise an interesting point, Nancy, about MMT specifically. I've never thought much about this, but given Brian's deep theatrical background, he might have influenced MMT quite a bit. Moreover, since the lads claim in Anthology to have more or less invented MTV with Strawberry Fields, Hello Goodbye, and such, Brian's own creativity might have kept pace with them even as they stopped touring and continued to evolve. The Maharishi might not have appealed to them quite so much either; however, there's no ending to this kind of speculation. But yeah, I think John knew, just as he said ...
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They wouldn't have started/expanded Apple. They wouldn't have done Magical Mystery Tour (in the same way). They wouldn't have had as much infighting over business (meaning no Allen Klein). He might have talked them into touring again. They may have even stayed together in the '70's. Even though they were changing as individuals, he kept them together as a group. Things would have been very different if he had lived, imo.
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I don't think Brian spent too much time at the recording studio ... maybe not at all. Had he gone there more often, some of the petty divisions might have not occurred.
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So it sounds like the affect of Brian's death was something felt over time as the band started to make bad business decisions...but wasn't something that sent them scrambling right then and there asking themselves 'what's next?'
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rich n:
So it sounds like the affect of Brian's death was something felt over time as the band started to make bad business decisions...but wasn't something that sent them scrambling right then and there asking themselves 'what's next?'
His 25% share of profits might have been worth every penny ... (??)
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rich n:
So it sounds like the affect of Brian's death was something felt over time as the band started to make bad business decisions...but wasn't something that sent them scrambling right then and there asking themselves 'what's next?'
Well...a week or less after he died an "emergency" meeting was held at Paul's house (I'm betting it was Paul that called the meeting) and then very shortly thereafter they started the MMT filming.
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The Beatles were a rudderless ship after Eppy died.
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Nancy R:
As John Lennon so famously said they were "f...ed." If Brian had not died things would have gone a lot smoother. And Paul wouldn't have had to step in and try to "manage" them. (MMT might never have happened, or it might have been a big hit) They might have even stayed together longer.
MMT was already planned and booked before Brian died (iirc).
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Eeee Cor Blimey:
Nancy R:
As John Lennon so famously said they were "f...ed." If Brian had not died things would have gone a lot smoother. And Paul wouldn't have had to step in and try to "manage" them. (MMT might never have happened, or it might have been a big hit) They might have even stayed together longer.
MMT was already planned and booked before Brian died (iirc).
I never heard that. I always read that it was created/planned in Sept. 1967.
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Nancy R:
Eeee Cor Blimey:
Nancy R:
As John Lennon so famously said they were "f...ed." If Brian had not died things would have gone a lot smoother. And Paul wouldn't have had to step in and try to "manage" them. (MMT might never have happened, or it might have been a big hit) They might have even stayed together longer.
MMT was already planned and booked before Brian died (iirc).
I never heard that. I always read that it was created/planned in Sept. 1967.
I always remember how he had the idea for the film and the song coming back from visiting Jane in April 67.. but i know that doesn't prove they'd already started planning the film before Brian died - but i swear i've read things that say it, but i can't prove it!! (ie not just wiki that i'll link to below but proper stuff like books hehe - i know wiki can be full of crap at times!) long page about the song roots http://www.beatlesebooks.com/magical-mystery-tour-song wiki claiming brian knew about MMT film (tho most things on wiki are rubbish!) http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Mystery_Tour but a page pretty much claiming it was after his death.. http://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/09/01/the-beatles-discuss-their-future-after-brian-epstein/ and more - we could go on all day!!! so basically, i don't know
http://www.beatlesbible.com/albums/magical-mystery-tour/ -
I thought the documentary about MMT that came out 2 years ago mentioned Brian's involvement in the planning of the project. I could be wrong, as I haven't seen that film since its release.
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DeniseLM227:
I thought the documentary about MMT that came out 2 years ago mentioned Brian's involvement in the planning of the project. I could be wrong, as I haven't seen that film since its release.
Yeah that might be it - i knew i'd read/seen something the last few years that debunked the myth.
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I don't think we can automatically assume Brian would have maintained the same level of involvement with the group. Relying on heavy doses of pills to fall asleep over a long time could have altered his personality.
