the Power of Krishna
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Great Rahil, was really digging your sound! "Let's rock for Krishna"--so cool, and I made out the words "swami" and "hare rama" and others, very inspirational and compelling. So your music is "Orange" and you like to wear orange. Looks good on you. I actually liked your "My Sweet Lord" more than George Harrison's (heresy to say? no, hope not) 'cause your voice was so sweet and George had the heavy Liddypool accent thing going even in his singing (love his voice too, though). Loved your musical accompaniment to your version of "My Sweet Lord" too. The slide show of Hindu religious scenes was a fancy colorful feast for the eyes, did you pick them out yourself? So you taught yourself to play guitar and other instruments and have released your fifth (or 4th (?)) album, that's real cool. Amazing. I'm going over to "What"s That Your Doing?" to hear more of your stuff. These were truly inspirational and moving--I'm ready to take off for India right now (or Trinidad!), and go "Troppo" I've no doubt you're very popular and in demand with your music. You write your own songs too. These were a fine addition to this thread
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hey Susy so glad to hear that you enjoyed
thank you very much for all the sweet feedback yes, i have been influenced spiritually since 1991 by Krsna-consciousness haha yes, ORANGE 
thanks for thinking it looks good on me wow, thank you for finding my MSL cover more likeable to your ears yes, the Krsna-conscious images were selected by me to match the song yes, 'self-taught' (used 1 book, observation, playing along, practicing, etc.) yes, 4th album released, 5th in the works so glad you feel so inspired haha @ 'gone Troppo' thank you very much for enjoying -
Now that's Krishna love for ya! I love it, that's what this thread is all about! It's not about saying 'hey I'll crush ya!'. It's about saying 'hare Krishna!' One time a guy walked up to me and said 'hare Krishna' and I socked him one cause I thought he was yelling at me 'hey I'll crush ya!' I should have known though by his friendly aura.. but I'm a dork!
You do a very sweet cover of My Sweet Lord, Rahil, very nice! That's 0ne of your best vocals. -
That's cool that George and Patti Harrison got you interested in Krishna Consciousness
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SusyLuvsPaul:
That's cool that George and Patti Harrison got you interested in Krishna Consciousness
That is cool as a summer breeze. I think acid might have got me interested in it, I can't really recall..
actually no, it was when I realized I was one with the universe, that's what did it. That and George and Patti. -
George did it for many. I got into it because of acid too and I got into acid because of Paul. (but that was a good thing)
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Kathryn O:
George did it for many. I got into it because of acid too and I got into acid because of Paul. (but that was a good thing)
I don't know what got me into acid, but I was definitely into for about 2 yrs when I was 18-19. Those years were pretty amazing.. all part of my journey, and firmly in the past! KO, you and I probably have a lot in common in certain ways, in our general out looks. I'm not bragging about my 'war stories' as they say, but when I started taking it, I was counting the 'hits' I was taking, and I remember clearly stopping counting at 200
and I never included mushrooms in that tally! We had a grinder that was used for grinding herbs and condiments, we used to grind up mushrooms and pot into fine powder and sprinkle it on sandwiches ah the glory days of being introduced personally, to the Krishna Consciousness. I should mention here, I don't even smoke pot anymore! And I barely drink. I'm literally clean as a whistle! ok figuratively. -
I'm the same way, Kapoo. I think we've got a bit in common there. I stopped doing acid back in July '92. shrooms were later but much rarer. Why? I just felt it had given me everything it could. and yeah, I rarely if ever smoke pot though I've been hanging out with all my pot-head friends again. It's legal in Detroit. (Small amount on private property for personal use. NOt kidding. YOu won't hear that in the media) so we've been smoking in our yards around the city. but pot is expensive. quadruple what it was back in my day of heavy smoking. thank god I'm a cute chick with a great personality. People like to smoke with me and thus, will share. but I've been known to turn it down and some thought I didn't smoke because of my will power. No. I just never ever had a problem with having any will power
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Since this is a thread of Krishna conscience I figured I'd make some statements about Krishna and drugs. Of course they seem to be pretty against them. One of their legends tells of one of their holy figures, I forget which one but I think it could be a Vishnu incarnation but I might be wrong, that liked hallucinagens as a way to see god. While walking high through the forest, his head got cut off by a lotus leaf. My ex-husband liked to say how his head went so spiritually out there it separated from his body. City of God is a group of Krishna's that come to the Rainbow Gathering every year and set up a kitchen. By sunset, they are in bed and quiet. They are considered a renegade group. In '93, a high suburban boy playing hippie came stumbling into the camp very high singing the song Hare Krishna from Hair. He was nothing unusual in that scene but another hippie guy was a heavy devote and asked him what he was on. When he replied LSD, the other guy got mad, screamed out the story of Vishnu and the lotus leaf and said he'd end up that way and then stormed off in a temper.
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Good stuff KO, and good fairytales in the second post
I don't buy into all those religious supernatural stories, but I get the point of them. Its just like the bible. I view it as a work of fiction, with some good lessons in it. very creative means to get the points across, thats what I say. I'm sure there are shredds of truth to it all, but I mean who knows. I just believe in God on my own terms. Btw, the Rainbow Gatherings, how crazy is that scene? Is it cool, or a bit of a fiasco? People just doing drugs freely? My view on drugs is that they should all be legal, and managed and taxed by the government. Its peoples choice to wrack their brains, who is anyone to say what people can't do to themselves. You warn of the negative consequences and then let the chips fall where they may. It's like the brilliant Jim Morrison said, 'drugs are a bet you make with your mind'. and that guy bet the house me, I rather enjoyed them. but I have kids now and have stopped, and intend to educated them not to do them, as the negative consequences far outweigh any possible short term satisfaction you might get. clean fun is the way to do it, and you'll live a long quality life. -
(since this thread is quickly turning into a drugs topic...) i must make it clear - intoxication/drug-taking has nothing to do with and no place in Bona Fide, Actual, Honest Krsna-consciousness practice and devotion.. the use of intoxicants is against the basic principles of Bhakti as expounded upon in the core scripture of Krsna-consciousness, Bhagavad-Gita, spoken by the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna Himself.. the goal of Krsna-consciousness is to attain Love for God, and Sri Krsna gives the means for this - chant the Hare Krsna mantra. thank you..
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simplyrahil:
(since this thread is quickly turning into a drugs topic...) i must make it clear - intoxication/drug-taking has nothing to do with and no place in Bona Fide, Actual, Honest Krsna-consciousness practice and devotion.. the use of intoxicants is against the basic principles of Bhakti as expounded upon in the core scripture of Krsna-consciousness, Bhagavad-Gita, spoken by the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna Himself.. the goal of Krsna-consciousness is to attain Love for God, and Sri Krsna gives the means for this - chant the Hare Krsna mantra. thank you..
Hey Rahil, good post man! but I'm curious, how is it against the basic principles? is it deemed to be damaging the sacred human body or something? why is it against the basic principles, and eating carrots for instance not? both are consuming goods found in nature. is drinking beer against the principles?
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These days, even something as innocuous as a glass of water can be harmful, considering the crap that's in it.
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kapoo:
simplyrahil:
(since this thread is quickly turning into a drugs topic...) i must make it clear - intoxication/drug-taking has nothing to do with and no place in Bona Fide, Actual, Honest Krsna-consciousness practice and devotion.. the use of intoxicants is against the basic principles of Bhakti as expounded upon in the core scripture of Krsna-consciousness, Bhagavad-Gita, spoken by the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna Himself.. the goal of Krsna-consciousness is to attain Love for God, and Sri Krsna gives the means for this - chant the Hare Krsna mantra. thank you..
Hey Rahil, good post man! but I'm curious, how is it against the basic principles? is it deemed to be damaging the sacred human body or something? why is it against the basic principles, and eating carrots for instance not? both are consuming goods found in nature. is drinking beer against the principles?
obviously eating carrots isn't the same as smoking weed or drinking alcohol, right? haha.. (what those intoxicants do to one's mind and body is obvious) from http://www.harekrsna.com/practice/4regs/intoxication.htm "NO INTOXICATION "In our Krsna consciousness movement we prohibit illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. In Kali-yuga, a drunken, half-naked woman embracing a drunken man is a very common sight, especially in the Western countries, and restraining oneself after seeing such things is very difficult. Nevertheless, if by the grace of Krsna a man adheres to the regulative principles and chants the Hare Krsna mantra, Krsna will certainly protect him. Indeed, Krsna says that His devotee is never vanquished (kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati). Therefore all the disciples practicing Krsna consciousness should obediently follow the regulative principles and remain fixed in chanting the holy name of the Lord. Then there need be no fear. Otherwise one's position is very dangerous." A Second Chance, Chapter 12 "Even by common sense we can understand. It requires little cool brain. But that cool brain cannot act without giving us, giving up these four things, namely illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. If your brain is congested always with all these four rubbish things, you cannot think of higher, finer things. That is not possible. Therefore we restrict, to make the brain clear to understand about Krsna" Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita, 08-13-73, Paris "Thereafter, all of them [the descendants of Vrsni and Bhoja], being permitted by the brahmanas, partook of the remnants of prasada and also drank liquor made of rice. By drinking they all became delirious, and, bereft of knowledge, they touched the cores of each other's hearts with harsh words. "Purport: In ceremonies when brahmanas and Vaisnavas are sumptuously fed, the host partakes of the remnants of foodstuff after the guest has given permission. So the descendants of Vrsni and Bhoja formally took permission from the brahmanas and ate the prepared foodstuff. Ksatriyas are permitted to drink at certain occasions, so they all drank a kind of light liquor made of rice. By such drinking they became delirious and bereft of sense, so much so that they forgot their relationship with one another and used harsh words which touched the cores of each other's hearts. Drinking is so harmful that even such a highly cultured family becomes affected by intoxication and can forget themselves in a drunken state. The descendants of Vrsni and Bhoja were not expected to forget themselves in this way, but by the will of the Supreme it happened, and thus they became harsh towards one another." Srimad-Bhagavatam 3:4:1 "You are already intoxicated. You are already illusioned in this material world. If you still go on drinking, where is the possibility of knowledge? You must have sober brain to understand. So this is going on. Therefore my appeal to all the sober men: to understand this Krsna consciousness movement and join it for the benefit of his personal self, for the benefit of his country, for the benefit of the whole human society." Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 11-10-73, Delhi "What is the use of smoking and drinking tea and coffee? People are already intoxicated by material enjoyment, and if they indulge in further intoxication, what chance is there for self-realization? Similarly, one should not partake in gambling and unnecessarily agitate the mind. The real purpose of human life is to attain the spiritual platform and return to Godhead. That is the summum bonum of spiritual realization." Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya lila 7 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. " ------------------------- from http://www.hknet.org.nz/Drug-Alcohol-page.htm "Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People Perth, May 16, 1975 Paramahamsa: ...to solve the problem of drug and alcohol addiction and, of course, they're concerned with the causes of it and things like that. Prabhupada: So you can send all these alcohol and drug patients here and they will be cured. These boys, American and European boys, they were all addicted to alcohol, drugs. Now they have given up. Practical. Guest (1): In what way would they cure? Prabhupada: Simply I say that "If you want to be my student, then you must give up four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling." This is my condition. So they give up, and they become my student. Guest (2): Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms? Paramahamsa: He says, "Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?" Sometimes when a patient is giving up alcohol or drugs, he goes through various symptoms which are painful. Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That should be... But unless... Find out this, param drstva nivartate. Rasa-varjam raso 'py asya param drstva nivartate. Devotee (2): "The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness." Prabhupada: Purport. Devotee (2): Purport? "Unless one is transcendentally situated, it is not possible to cease from sense enjoyment. The process of restriction from sense enjoyment by rules and regulations is something like restricting a diseased person from certain types of edibles. The patient, however, neither likes such restriction, nor loses his taste for edibles. Similarly, sense restriction by some spiritual process like astanga-yoga, in the matter of yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, etc., is recommended for less intelligent persons who have no better knowledge. But one who has tasted the beauty of the Supreme Lord Krsna in the course of his advancement in Krsna consciousness no longer has a taste for dead material things. Therefore, restrictions are there for the less intelligent neophytes in the spiritual advancement of life, but such restrictions are only good if one actually has a taste for Krsna consciousness. When one is actually Krsna conscious, he automatically loses his taste for pale things." Guest (1): What is Krsna consciousness, if I might ask? Prabhupada: Tell him. Paramahamsa: Well, Krsna is the Supreme Lord, or the Supreme Soul, and we are all individual souls. So naturally we have an awareness of our relationship with Krsna, or God. When we say God or Krsna, we don't mean my God or your God, but we mean God, no matter which religion we're speaking of. So all of us naturally have a capacity to love Krsna, or God, and we can awaken this relationship with Him. And when that is awakened, then all unwanted things disappear, because everybody is actually frustrated, looking for permanent happiness in this temporary world. But when we awaken our Krsna consciousness then all of those frustrations disappear, and so all such problems like drug addiction become unnecessary. Guest (2): How long does this process of withdrawal take? Paramahamsa: He says how long does it take to stop taking drugs by the process of Krsna consciousness? Prabhupada: If one lives with us at least for six months, he will give up. Guest (2): Six months. And are there cases which relapse? Paramahamsa: He says, "Are there cases of..., which relapse? Persons who begin to withdraw from drugs...?" Prabhupada: Maybe one in five hundred. Guest (2): One in five hundred. Prabhupada: There is. Everyone is prone to fall down. But that percentage is very low, say, one in five hundred. We have got about ten thousand students all over the world. Out of them, they have fallen about ten or, say, fifteen, that's all. Guest (2): You means you have ten thousand students who used to be addicted to something? Prabhupada: Yes. Addicted to everything; illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. And now they have given up everything. Guest (2): And those who relapse, can they be treated again? Prabhupada: Again? Paramahamsa: Those who have relapsed, can they be treated again? Prabhupada: Ah, yes, that I say. Say, utmost, ten out of ten thousand. Paramahamsa: He says, "Can they be treated again, a second time?" Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Even American government is pleased with this movement because they have spent so much millions of dollars for stopping LSD, and they are surprised that when the people come here, they give up. Guest (3): Do you teach abstinence or moderation in the use of these things? Prabhupada: No, we say "Stop." We don't allow even smoking and drinking tea. That is also intoxication. We are so strict. But still, they give up. None of us take tea. We eat very simple things, vegetables, wheat, rice, little milk, that's all. Guest (1): Did you say you eat meat? Paramahamsa: Wheat, wheat. Guest (1): Wheat. Ah. Is there any reason why you don't, you prohibit people from eating meat? Prabhupada: Because it is sinful. It is sinful. According to Vedic conception, these four things are sinful activities, four pillars. Just like four pillars, the legs of this table, similarly, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling are the four legs of sinful life. Guest (1): What do you consider illicit sex? Prabhupada: Illicit sex means animal life. The marriage is in the human society, not in the dog society. So if one has illicit sex, that means he is no better than dog. Guest (2): I don't quite understand that. Did you say that illicit means sex between people who are not married? Prabhupada: Yes. Sex is allowed only married couple. And that is also only for begetting child. Guest (1): Married under what law? Under what religion? Under what religious law? Prabhupada: There is in Bhagavad-gita, that dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. Find out. You can come here and read. Paramahamsa: Which was that? Dharma... Prabhupada: Dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. Paramahamsa: Dharmaviruddho bhutesu? Prabhupada: No, dharmaviruddhah kamo 'smi. Dharma-aviruddha. You know that verse. Paramahamsa: Is that balam balavatam caham? Prabhupada: Ah, yes, yes, yes. Paramahamsa: balam balavatam caham kama-raga-vivarjitam dharmaviruddho bhutesu kamo 'smi bharatarsabha Translation: "I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O Lord of the Bharatas, Arjuna." Guest (1): You can follow actually? What does that exactly mean? It's a direct translation, I think. Paramahamsa: He says, "What does that exactly mean?" Prabhupada: Explain to him. Paramahamsa: Well, as it explains here, "The strong man's strength should be applied to protect the weak, not for personal aggression. Similarly, sex life, according to religious principles, dharma, should be for the propagation of children, not otherwise. The responsibility of parents is then to make their offspring Krsna conscious." Guest (2): The question was which religion, which religious principle? Paramahamsa: Well, he means our marriage under... We accept that marriage, sex life in marriage, is licit, not illicit. So he asked, "Under what religious principles or under which religion?" Prabhupada: Any religion. Christian religion does not allow illicit sex. No adultery. Guest (2): Any religious principles? Prabhupada: This is religious principle. In the animal kingdom there is no marriage, but in the human society, may be Christian, may be Hindu, may be Muslim, there is marriage system. That is religious system. Guest (2): Is polygamy illicit? Prabhupada: No. Guest (2): Not illicit. But it is... Prabhupada: Polygamy means if it is married. Just like in the Vedic society they used to marry many wives. Just like Krsna. Krsna had sixteen thousand wives. And He maintained them sixteen thousand palaces. And He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand Krsnas. So that is a different thing; He is God. But if you can maintain each and every wife, you can marry more than one wife. But if you are unable to maintain, that is illicit. All the ksatriya kings, they used to marry more than one wife. Still in India, the ksatriyas, kings, they have more than one wife. But they maintain very nicely. Guest (2): But your method of curing drug addiction has no definite practical use, surely. Prabhupada: Why not practical? Guest (2): Not everyone who wants to stop taking drugs can spend six months in solitude or in a company like yours. Paramahamsa: He says he finds it not practical because not everyone who is addicted to drugs can spend six months in a temple with us. Prabhupada: They are spending years. They are all European, Americans. They are not Indians. We have got here... You go to Melbourne. We have got big branch. In Sydney we have got. In Europe. They are doing that. It requires training, proper training. Then it will be done. Guest (1): Well, if there is someone who wouldn't like to perhaps join this religion, but still wants to get treated... Prabhupada: This is not religion. This is a culture. Guest (1): Oh. Yes, this culture... Prabhupada: Because we are admitting persons from various religions, various nations, various countries, and they accept this culture and they become purified. Guest (1): Do they have to wear those clothes and shave their heads and chanting those things... Prabhupada: That is optional. That is also optional. That is not compulsory. But in India because the brahmacaris, sannyasis, they dress in a particular way, they do that. But that is not compulsory. But it has got a psychological effect, because whenever we go, people chant "Hare Krsna!" So by this dress, we give chance, the other men, to chant Hare Krsna. Guest (1): Well, could you correct me if I'm wrong. We have a society called Ramakrishna Society, a society in Burma. Those people who founded this society and are practicing Krsna culture, they don't wear those things, or they don't chant in their temple, but they do all sorts of social welfare type of thing. Is there any difference between... Prabhupada: Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god. Guest (1): Isn't yours a product of or derivative of Vedic? Prabhupada: Yes, completely. Guest (1): So how would you... Prabhupada: Just like whatever question you are asking, we are answering from Vedic literature. We are not answering ourself. That is the difference. The evidence is from the Vedic literature. I don't say that "In my opinion it is like this." We don't say. Guest (1): I'm sorry, I missed that point. Could you please explain? Paramahamsa: He said it is Vedic because the answers he is giving are not his opinion or concoction, but he is giving from the Vedic knowledge or the Vedic scriptures instead of making up his own opinion. That is the meaning of Vedic; it is based on the Vedic teachings exactly. Guest (1): But the Ramakrishna wasn't. Prabhupada: No. Guest (1): They formed their own way. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (2): Do you consider that this kind of practice or the practicing this kind of culture is regimentated? A person has to come in and spend some times in the temple, and... Prabhupada: Yes, the association, the influence of association. If you go to a drunkard association, you become a drunkard. And if you go to a saintly association, you become a saint. Sangat sanjayate kamah. Find out. Paramahamsa: dhyayato visayan pumsah sangas tesupajayate sangat sanjayate kamah kamat krodho 'bhijayate Translation: "While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises." Prabhupada: If one becomes lusty and if it is not fulfilled, he becomes angry. This is all psychological. Guest (2): Yeah, well, when a person is attached to that group in the temple, isn't this, become a lust too? You see, being influenced by the group and also attached to the people... Prabhupada: We are teaching to be influenced by Krsna. Therefore we have written fifty books like that, four hundred pages. You can show some of our books. Paramahamsa: This is Srimad-Bhagavatam, Volume Two, Volume Four... Prabhupada: Sixty volumes. Paramahamsa: Nectar of Devotion. Guest (4): You seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on books. Are you following any particular path of yoga, niyama-yoga...? Paramahamsa: She says we place a lot of emphasis on books, and she wonders if we are following a particular path such as dhyana-yoga or jnana-yoga or what? Prabhupada: Bhakti-yoga. Guest (4): Bhakti-yoga. Prabhupada: There are different types of yogas. And you will find yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah You have found out? Read it. Paramahamsa: yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah Translation: "And of all yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." Prabhupada: This is bhakti-yoga. Guest (2): Well, doesn't it mean that someone has to worship that person to be able to attain the enlightenment or Krsna consciousness? Prabhupada: Yes, everyone is worshiping a person. Everyone is... But we have to worship the Supreme Person. That is perfect. Everyone is worshiping a person. Suppose you are employed somewhere. You have to worship your boss. Otherwise no employment. Guest (2): Oh, well, I consider it as a mutual... Prabhupada: It is mutual. It is mutual. Guest (2): It's a mutual kind of support. But worshiping in a sense of religion or in a sense of a higher person, it's a different matter. Prabhupada: Worshiping means appreciating high qualities. Worshiping is not blind. If I know that you have some high qualities, I worship you. Guest (2): Do you worship to a person or what? To his doctrines or...? Prabhupada: Worship means person. Worship does not mean imperson. Unless there is a person-to-person relationship, there is no question of worship. Guest (2): Is... This picture of Sri Visnu, it's the person who you worship or...? Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (2): He is the creator. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (2): And, in the sense that He is called Krsna? Prabhupada: Krsna is His another form. Krsna is Visnu's another form. Guest (2): I see, yes. Prabhupada: Find out, aham adir hi devanam. Guest (3): What is your correlation between belief and science? You mentioned that science is involved. Prabhupada: Science? Guest (3): Yes. Prabhupada: Yes. What do you mean by science? Guest (3): Well, the human sciences or otherwise is a study on its own. What is the relationship or the link-up between that and your faith? Prabhupada: The relationship--God is the creator of everything. So everything has got relationship with God. So what do you think of this science? The Vedanta-sutra, it says, athato brahma-jijnasa: "Now this human life is meant for understanding the science of God." So the question is what is God? The answer is: janmady asya yatah. "God or the Supreme Absolute Truth is that from whom everything has come." So this is our science, the origin of everything. Guest (3): Yes, the origin of everything. But why is it necessary for man to have to discover? I mean, man discovered the cure for poliomyelitis. Prabhupada: Why man discovers? Guest (3): Yes, well, I'm using it as an example. Prabhupada: But he... Just like... It is not the question of discover, but because you are existing, you must have come from a father. That is science. It is not the question of finding out a father. Without father, there is no existence of you. It is not the question of finding out a father. Father must be there. This is science. Without father, is there any existence of any man or any animal? What your science says? Is it possible that anyone is existing without a father? What do you think? Guest (4): I was just wondering, um, do you believe in... Prabhupada: Who is there independently existing without having a father? What is that science? Guest (2): It's not necessarily in the science itself... Prabhupada: No, no, this is a sign, that if there is a man, he must have a father. This is science. So what is your opinion about this science? Guest (1): I see it as a straight, deductive logic. If there is a... Prabhupada: ...son, there must be father. That is science. Guest (1): Don't you think this kind of reasoning is a deductive logic rather than inductive? Prabhupada: No, what is the reasoning yours, that you deny father? Guest (3): The father must have a father too, mustn't he? Prabhupada: Yes. Similarly, there must be supreme father. Guest (3): Well, who is the supreme father's father? Prabhupada: Yes, that is enquiry, that you have got your father, your father has got father, he has got his father, he has got... Who is the supreme father? He is God. Guest (1): Who is God's father? Prabhupada: Nobody is His father. That is God. God is everyone's father, but He is without father. That is God. So long one has got father, he is not God. When you come to the point that here is the person who has no father, He is independent, that is God. The definition of God is given in the Vedic literature. isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam Anadi means He has no beginning. But He is the beginning of everything. This is simple definition of God. Anadi... Anadi means He has no beginning. But He is the beginning of everything. Anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam, the cause of all causes. Guest (1): It becomes a belief rather than a logic now, then, for when we think about the God. You were saying everybody has father, so why God, in exception, He hasn't got a father? Prabhupada: Therefore He is God, that He can exist without father. But you cannot exist without father. That is the difference between you and God. Guest (2): Is God in the form of male or female or anything? Prabhupada: He is male. Otherwise how He can beget? Female cannot beget without man's contact. The prakrti, the nature, is female, and God is male. Find out this verse, sarva-yonisu kaunteya murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yonir aham bija-pradah pita Paramahamsa: sarva-yonisu kaunteya murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yonir aham bija-pradah pita "It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father." Prabhupada: So material nature is the mother, and God is the father. Guest (2): But to whom did God give the seed? Prabhupada: The prakrti, material nature. That is said here. Just like for begetting a child, both the father and mother requires. So the material nature is the mother, and God is the father. So so many forms of life are coming from the womb of material nature. This body is made of matter. This body is earth, water, air, fire, like that. This is made of... But I am the soul. That is from God. I am part and parcel of God, as soul. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah. Find out. Paramahamsa: mamaivamso jiva-loke jiva-bhutah sanatanah manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati "Translation. The living entities in this conditional world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (2): Is there an animal soul, Swami? Prabhupada: Yes. Because it is already said, sarva-yonisu, "all forms of life." Even ant, tree, birds, plant, trees, everything. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. All of them, the soul is there. And they have got different... Just like you are differently dressed, I am differently dressed, but you are also soul, I am also soul. Guest (4): You're really talking about the atman? Aren't you? Prabhupada: Atma, yes, soul is atma. And the soul of the soul is God, Paramatma. Guest (2): Is it possible for us to communicate with plants? Prabhupada: With...? Paramahamsa: With plants. Is it possible for us to communicate with plants? Prabhupada: Yes, they have done. Sir Jagadish Candra Bose in Calcutta, Bose Institute, he has proved--he has got machine--that they feel pains and pleasure, which is recorded in the machine. If you pluck one leaf, they feel. Immediately it is recorded in the machine. Guest (2): Could I come back to that eating of meat? Related to this alive, soul, matter. Aren't you in a sense eating another soul too if you're eating vegetables? Not only if you're eating meat? Prabhupada: No, the thing is, the material world... It is said, jivo jivasya jivanam: "One living entity has to eat another living entity to keep himself alive." That is the natural law. But you should have discrimination. Because you have to eat some other living entity, it does not mean that you will eat your own son. You cannot support that "Because I have to live by eating another living entity, so what is the wrong if I eat my son?" Therefore the Vedic injunction is tena tyaktena bhunjitha. You are given some jurisdiction. You can eat. And actually you do so. Because I have to eat something, we do not eat anything and everything. We have got discrimination. So according to Bhagavad-gita... Find out this verse, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati. Paramahamsa: patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati tad aham bhakty-upahrtam asnami prayatatmanah Translation: "If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it." Prabhupada: So our Krsna consciousness movement we accept what is eaten by Krsna. So Krsna wants these things: fruits, flower, vegetable, grains, milk. So we offer them and eat. Guest (2): Why not animals? Prabhupada: He does not say, "Give Me animals." Because we are Krsna conscious, we cannot take anything which is not accepted by Krsna. Guest (2): Are blood transfusions permissible, Swami? Paramahamsa: He says, "Are blood transfusions permissible?" When one is in an accident or cut and he loses blood, they take another man's blood and put it it. He says... Prabhupada: Well, that is not bad. Because if one life is saved by transfusion admission... He is not dying. He is living. He is contributing his blood. So if he is contributing, you are saving some life, there is no harm. Guest (2): But blood is animal tissue. (break) Prabhupada: How they liked? Paramahamsa: Um, the younger ones liked better. The nurse was asking where she could..., if she could refer people to visit us here, and I told her we don't know if this will be the permanent address, but as soon as we have a permanent address here I'll notify her. But she was wondering if she could send people, if the people would be welcome to come and visit and see the place here. And the Buddhist boy, he bought an incense from us. He said, "Where is that nice smell coming from?" I said, "Incense." He said, "I want some." The other gentlemen I don't... They're more set in their ways kind of men. I couldn't tell whether they were impressed or not. They don't express very well. Prabhupada: But all their questions were answered. Paramahamsa: Yes. When you told him where is the man who has, where is the person who did not come from a father, he began to... Before that, he was going to challenge whether this was science or belief, but then he had to be quiet. He just mumbled. Prabhupada: And they inquired, "Then God has father?" No, God without father. That is God. That is the distinction between ordinary living entity and God. Paramahamsa: So I will try to arrange someone for tonight and tomorrow morning; that geographer, I hope. And the people from the radio conversation. They're very well known, actually. Because I asked the geographer man, I said, "Do you know this man, Tim Downs?" And he said, "Oh, yes. I have heard him many times." Prabhupada: Tim Down? Paramahamsa: Tim Downs. He is the man who may come from radio to make a conversation. Then they will play it on radio. But I have to find out if he's coming. And in the case that there may be three people who want to come, so would it be possible for tonight to having two, maybe five o'clock and seven o'clock or something like that? Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Yes. I will keep in touch with those people and let them know. I will send them some literature too. Should I go and telephone those people? Prabhupada: Um hm. (end) (Perth, May 16, 1975 - 750516TA.PER) (c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust " ---------------------------------------
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from http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/sp_drugs.htm "Drugs, Prostitution and War. Prabhupada: Drug is killing the whole Western nation. You will be spoiled, you will be finished with this drug habit. You are already finished. America is finished. They cannot do anything anymore. Neither industrialists nor big scholars, neither big fighter. Anything. Simply spoiled. The only shelter is this Krsna consciousness. Papi tapi yata chilo hariname uddharilo. They can be only saved by this process. They have no other... otherwise they are going to hell. All Americans, the so-called puffed up materialist. This is a fact. So if you want to do service to your country, introduce this Krsna consciousness to the younger generation. They will be saved. You be saved and save your brothers. And otherwise this poison, this intoxication, heroin, cocaine, and LSD and this and marijuana, finished everything. But if you become steady in one life without deviating for maya, then you make solution of all problems. That is the duty of human being . Instead of suffering this repeated birth and death, one life sacrifice. What is that sacrifice? What is inconvenience to live nicely, avoiding these four rascal habit, taking Krsna prasadam, and chanting Hare Krsna mantra and reading all these nice books. Where is the difficulty? Nice life. First class life. Wherever you will go you will be respectable. Anyone will worship you. Syamasundara: Materialistic life is so bothersome. All the time some trouble. Prabhupada: Just like in hog civilization. That's all. They are thinking that "We are very happy eating stool." But others know that what kind of happiness he is enjoying. Similarly these rascal karmis, materialists, they are thinking by... What is called? Kini...What is called? Naked skirt? Devotees: Miniskirt? Prabhupada: Miniskirt, trying to show the private part and people will be attracted and she will be happy. This is regular prostitution. Regular prostitution. Still they are not getting husband. Even they walk naked... That will come. Say after fifty years it will come like that. Syamasundara:They are starting already some places, walking naked. Prabhupada: And the law is you cannot marry more than one wife. The rascal lawgiver. So many women, there must be... One husband, at the present moment, must marry at least one dozen wives, otherwise they're going to hell. At least, she will know that "I have got a husband." Maybe the husband of twelve wives, but they are anxious to have a husband. That facility should be given to them. They are anxious. Parivrajakacarya: But they don't want to have any children. Prabhupada: That is next program. Why not? Now we are having our wives, so many children. Los Angeles full of children. So natural way should be accepted. They require husband. The law is, "No. You cannot have more, you cannot marry one wife." The girls have become prostitute. That's all right. "The girls are becoming prostitute. That's all right. But you cannot marry more than one." What is this? Syamasundara: They have contraceptive pills even for young children. Kulasekhara: One barrister, one of the top judges in England, a top man, top doctor, he said children should have sex life at fourteen. He said this in the newspaper two days ago. He said children at fourteen should be allowed to have sex life. He said this should be made legal. He's a top doctor or judge. Prabhupada: Children? Syamasundara: Children should be allowed to have sex life at fourteen years old. Prabhupada: Yes. That is psychological. They develop... Sex life, sex urge is there as soon as twelve years, thirteen years old, especially women. So therefore early marriage was sanctioned in India. Early marriage. Boy fifteen years, sixteen years, and girl twelve years. Not twelve years, ten years. I was married, my wife was eleven years. I was 22 years. She did not know what is sex, eleven years' girl. Because Indian girls, they have no such opportunity of mixing with others. But after the first menstruation, the husband is ready. This is the system, Indian system. Syamasundara: So they are not spoiled. Prabhupada: No. And the psychology is the girl, after first menstruation, she enjoys sex life with a boy, she will never forget that boy. Her love for that boy is fixed up for good. This is woman's psychology. And she is allowed to have many, oh, she will never be chaste woman. These are the psychology. So these rascals, Westerners, they do not know and they are becoming philosopher, scientist, and politician, and spoiling the whole world. They can be saved only by this Krsna consciousness movement. There is no other way. Otherwise they will lick up their skyscraper building and everything will go to hell. We have seen in New York, so many houses fall down. In New York. Yes. So many. Simply garbage. I have studied. Simply full of garbage. Nobody is going to take care. And the boys and girls loitering in the street as hippies. This is a very, very, bad sign. You see? No home, home neglected, no regular life. The whole nation will be spoiled. It is already spoiled. The poison is already there. Fire. Now it is increasing. Just like you set fire, it increases. So that fire is already there. Syamasundara: And the Russians and the Chinese, they are training to take over. They are marching, practicing war. Prabhupada: Hm? Syamasundara: In Russia we noticed every day they're practicing for war, young people, marching. Prabhupada: Mechanical. Syamasundara: Yes. In China too, marching, ready to take over. Kulasekhara: When we were in New York, one boy... Prabhupada: No, there will be fight. That is the prediction of great politician. There will be war between these Communist and anti-Communist. There are two parties now. The anti-Communist will be defeated. The Communists will come out victorious. Syamasundara: We don't want to fight. None of our boys want to fight. Prabhupada: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau sudra-sambhavah. In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a sudra. It is meant for the ksatriya. And nobody is being trained as ksatriya or brahmana. Everyone is being trained as sudra or utmost vaisya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the sudras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaisyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and sudra and vaisya. There is no ksatriya, there is no brahmana. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brahmanas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Krsna. So we have got very serious mission. Don't be fickle. When you have come and sacrificed your life for the mission, don't be fickle. Be very steady and capture Krsna's lotus feet tightly. You'll never be attacked by maya. Otherwise as soon as you give up Krsna, maya is ready. Just like side by side there is sun... shadow and light. If you push little from light then go to shadow. This is already side by side maya and Krsna. So as soon as you forget Krsna--maya. As soon as you give up maya, then Krsna. [S.P. Room Conversation, August 15, 1971, London]"
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from http://krishna.org/sudarsana/archive/mail/msg00213.html "Drugs Subject: Drugs From: melted one Date: Tue Mar 12 11:16:31 1996 Message-Id: id020 > i had a question about the use of drugs, hallucinagens in particular. i > know a good deal about the hare krishna movement and have taken to it as > best i can, i am getting better each day. i have noticed the very > negative veiw of intoxicants, most of which i argee with. i differ > however when it comes to the use of drugs like LSD. it suprises me you > don't see the potential it has as a tool for God realization. I know you > say how can something chemical help the spiritual, but books are material > and they can help. you can also use them to smash bugs but that is an > improper use of the tool. admittidly LSD can never take one to the goal > but i think its value lies in illuminating the path for awhile to show a > practitioner where their progress is and where they are going. I haven't > tripped since i have been reading the books by Prabhupada but i will > again soon and i intend to focus my expirence on God instead of just > whatever happens happens, like i did in the past. so i guess my question > is, if we are in the car and we think we are the car, couldn't something > like LSD let us realize that we are the driver, if only for a moment > could prove emensly benefitial for leading us along the path towards > krishna? > > > Hello. Hare Krishna! It is certainly possible to change one's consciousness by the use of drugs. But that ia maya, it is an illusion, it is not real at all. Any drug-induced state is not spiritual at all. It's a temporary chemical thing. All the drugs, including LSD, etc, are very damaging to the body and the brain and they impair our ability to understand spiritual subject matter -- they don't enhance it at all. You say you have taken to Krishna consciousness and are reading Srila Prabhupada's books. That's fantastic. But Prabhupada's instructions on this matter are very clear. So if you don't follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions where is the question of taking to Krishna consciousness? Do you believe Srila Prabhupada is speaking the truth in his books? Do you accept he is a pure representative of Krishna and whatever he says is coming from Krishna? In that case how can you not accept what he says in relation to drugs?? "Srila Prabhupada lived amid the drug culture, in a neighborhood where the young people were almost desprerately attempting to alter their consciousness, whether by drugs or some other means--whatever was available. Srila Prabhupada assured them they could easily achieve the higher consciousness they desired by chanting Hare Krishna. "In explaining Krishna consciousness Prabhupada occasionally mentioned the drug experience -- even if only to show that the two were contrary paths. He was familiar already with Indian "Sadhus" who took ganga and hashish on the plea of aiding their meditations. And even before he left India hippie tourists had become a familiar sight on the streets of Delhi. "The hippies liked India because of the cultural mystique and the easy access to drugs. They would meet their Indian counterparts who assured them that taking hassish was spiritual, and then they would return to America and spread this misconception of Indian spiritual culture. "It was the way of life. The local head shops carried a full line of paraphernalia. Marijuana, LSD, peyote, cocaine and hard drugs like heroin and barbituates were easily purchased on the streets and in the parks. Underground newspapers reported important news on the drug scene, featured a cartoon character called "Captain High", and ran crossword puzzles that only a seasoned "head" could answer. "Srila Prabhupada taught that Krishna consciousness was beyond the revered LSD trip. "Do you think taking LSD can produce ecstasy and higher consciousness?" he once asked the storefront audience. "Then just imagine a room full of LSD -- Krishna consciousness is like that..." "People would regularly come into the storefront and ask Srila Prabhupada's disciples, "Do you get high from this?" and the devotees would truthfully reply, "Oh yes. You can get high just by chanting Hare Krishna. Why don't you try it." "When the members of Timothy Leary's Millbrook commune came to Srila Prabhupada's storefront they all chanted in the kirtana [to see what sort of "high" chanting could produce] and after Prabhupada's lecture the Millbrook commune's leader asked about drugs. Prabhupada replied that drugs were not necessary for spiritual life, that they could not produce spiritual consciousness, and that all drug-induced religious visions were simply hallucinations. To realize God was not so easy or cheep that one could do it by just taking a pill or smoking. Chanting Hare Krishna, he explained, was a purifying process to uncover one's pure consciousness. Taking drugs would increase the covering and bar one from self-realization "The members of the Millbrook community then challenged Srila Prabhupada: "But have you ever taken LSD?" Prabhupada replied, "I have never taken any of these things -- not even cigarettes or tea. I have not taken, but my disciples have taken all these things -- marijuana, LSD -- many times and now they have given them all up. you can hear from them. Hayagriva, you can speak. Hayagriva said: "Well no matter how high you go on LSD, you eventually reach a peak, and you have to come back down. Just like travelling into outer-space in a rocket ship. Your spacecraft can travel very far away from the earth for thousands of miles, day after day, but it cannot simply go on travelling and travelling. Eventually it must land. On LSD we experience going up, but we always have to come down again. that's not spiritual consciousness. When you actually attain spiritual or Krishna consciousness, you stay high. Because you go to Krishna you don't have to come down. You can stay high forever." (From "Prabhupada" (also published as "Your Ever-Well-Wisher by Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami)) So what do you think? Chant Hare Krishna and be happy! Madhudvisa dasa"
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from http://www.prabhupadavani.org/main/Conversations/050.html "Drug Philosophy" May 8, 1975 download flash player Take a test Prabhupada: ...psychology, metaphysics. Kim: Yes. Amogha: He was telling me that the paper he's writing for his master's degree is comparing a German philosopher with Buddhist philosophy. Kim: Which, as far as I can gather, the self/no-self thing, Buddhism was denying that you're the atman, I think. Could you perhaps say something about that? Amogha: He's asking about the conception of denial of the self. Kim: Of the atman, yes. Amogha: Atman. The finishing of atman. Prabhupada: Hmm. So how can you deny atman? Kim: In Hindu philosophy, what is the nature of the atman? Prabhupada: Nature of atman is eternal. Eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. Anandamayo 'bhyasat: (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12) atma is joy, ananda, blissful. Kim: I've read some of the Upanisads where they say that atman is Brahman? Prabhupada: Why have I placed this flower here? Why do I like this flower? What is the reason? Kim: Because it's beautiful, perhaps? Prabhupada: Yes, therefore you want to enjoy. This is the nature of atma. I want to enjoy. This is blissfulness. Then, why are you trying to become a philosopher? Kim: For understanding. Prabhupada: Yes, therefore knowledge. Why do you not like to die? Because you are eternal. Therefore atma's nature is eternal, full of knowledge, and full of bliss. This is knowledge. Sat cit ananda. Do you know Sanskrit? Kim: No, but some words. Prabhupada: That is atma's nature. Sat cit ananda. Eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. Kim: A question. Is there, is it the atman... Prabhupada: Just hear. Kim: Atman is attached to each person? Prabhupada: Just hear. Amogha: He says hear for a moment. Kim: I'm listening, of course. Prabhupada: Atma's nature. One question should be understood, thoroughly. You have asked what is the nature of atma. The atma's nature is that he is eternal. He never dies. Never takes birth. He is already existing. Just like, you were a child, you were a baby. The body is no longer existing. Your childhood body is no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. You remember your childhood days. Therefore, you are different from the body. The body is passed away, but you remember that you had a body like that. Therefore you exist. You know that you'll become an old man. So this body will not exist. Another body you will get, old age body. Therefore you will exist; the body will change. Now try to understand this fact first of all, and if you cannot understand, ask questions. Kim: The atman, there is one to a person, or there is only one atman? Prabhupada: You are atma, I am atma, we are not one. You are individual, I am individual. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So how one? Kim: I beg your pardon? Prabhupada: How it is one? Amogha: He says that you are individual and he is individual, so how can they be one? Kim: How can they be one? I see. Yes. I was wondering how the atman is associated with each individual. Is it the... Isn't it right to say the person is the atman? Prabhupada: Yes. Kim: The person is the atman. And to each person there is one atman associated. Prabhupada: You are a person and I am a person. You are changing bodies and I am changing bodies. Kim: And through all the changes there is the atman that continues. Prabhupada: Who is here first of all? You are a person. I am a person. You are hearing, I am speaking. We are two persons. So why you say one? Kim: Two bodies. Prabhupada: Yes, two bodies, just like two dresses. You are differently dressed, I am differently dressed, but that does not mean that we are one. We are one as atma. Just like you are Australian, I am Indian, but as human being we are one. But as Australian, as Indian, we are different. Therefore we are one and different at the same time. Kim: Is the atman... Prabhupada: Atma as spirit soul is one. Kim: Is one. Prabhupada: But as individual soul they are different. Kim: And the atman is just with respect to consciousness, or can we talk about... Prabhupada: No. Kim: ...an atman without consciousness. Prabhupada: Consciousness is the symptom of atma. Because the atma is within your body, therefore your consciousness is there. Now, because the atma is within the body, if I pinch or if you pinch my body, I feel pains and pleasures. As soon as the atma is not there, it will be cut with a chopper, there is no protest. So, that atma is present within this body, that is understood by the presence of consciousness. Just like we are here in this room, but this light is the reflection of the sunshine. We understand there is sun in the sky. The light and heat we are feeling, that means the sun is in the sky. Similarly, our consciousness and knowledge, etc., are there, that means that the atma is there. The same atma, when it will go out of this body, there will be no more consciousness, no more knowledge, no more feelings of pains and pleasures. Kim: Can one say what qualities the atman has? Prabhupada: That I have already explained. Eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. Kim: And does Hindu philosophy say anything about... Prabhupada: Don't talk Hindu philosophy, talk of philosophy. Kim: Philosophy. How the atman came into being? Prabhupada: Hmm? Kim: How did the atman come into being? Prabhupada: Atma is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways -- we are individuals -- and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher. He may be a very big dog, can bark very loudly, he has got very good strength, can create big disturbance, but he cannot understand philosophy. That is not possible. But a human being can understand. Therefore he should be given chance to understand the philosophy of life. And that is Vedas. Kim: That is? Prabhupada: Vedas. Kim: Oh, Vedas, yes. Prabhupada: The Vedas are there for understanding by the human society. And if he lives like a cat and dog, then he spoils his life. We should take advantage of the Vedic knowledge and make our life successful. This is real philosophy. Kim: I'm not very familiar with the Hindu scriptures, but I have read some Upanisads, and there's the idea that somehow atman is Brahman? I don't understand that at all, so perhaps you could say something about that? Prabhupada: Which Upanisad are you reading? Kim: I've read the Chandogya, the -- I don't know the pronunciations. Prabhupada: There are one hundred and eight Upanisads. Kim: I don't know the pronunciations, that's the difficulty. Prabhupada: Have you read Isopanisad? Kim: Pardon? Prabhupada: Isopanisad. Kim: I'm familiar with the name, but that's about all. Prabhupada: Give him Isopanisad. Read from the beginning. Have you read this book? This is the first Upanisad that is read. Can you read Sanskrit? Kim: No. Prabhupada: Transliteration? Amogha: You just read the sound. Kim: om purnam adah purnam idam purnat purnam udacyate purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate [Iso Invocation] Prabhupada: Read the translation. Kim: "The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance." Prabhupada: Now read the purport. After reading the translation do you understand everything? Kim: No. (reads purport to) "...and Paramatma or Supersoul realization is the realization of His sat and cit features." I don't understand that. I read the words, but... Prabhupada: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears -- so many things -- but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables -- everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Purnam idam [Iso Invocation]. Purnah means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Purnam idam, purnam adah, purnat purnam udacyate. And He is so complete that purnasya purnam adaya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines -- everything is going on. Purnat purnam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God. Here is God -- complete. Purnam adah, purnam idam [Isopanisad, Invocation]. The whole creation is complete, still He is complete. The energy is coming from here, still He is complete. This energy also. A glass of water, I throw the glass, and water again is coming. Again I throw, again it is coming. Incessantly coming, all the energies. This is the idea of God. Purnam idam [Iso Invocation], purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate, purnasya purnam adaya, purnam evavasisyate. One minus one equals one, not zero. One plus one equals one, not two. This is complete. This is the idea of God. Just like the ocean. You take many thousands of buckets of water out, still it is complete. And again you put many buckets, thousands, millions of buckets of water, it is the same depth. This is another example. Material example. This is complete. You take millions of buckets of water from the ocean, you'll find not a drop is lost. And you put millions of buckets of water again, not a drop is increased. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. If you try to take out the whole ocean, still it will remain the ocean. This is the idea of complete. Kim: One more question. What do you think of the use of drugs as an aid? Prabhupada: Drugs? That is another side of madness. Just like, human being, after the evolution of 8 million forms of bodies, he comes to human body to understand philosophy, these Vedas. So instead of utilizing life for that purpose, he wants to become again like the cats and dogs, and therefore he takes drugs. He is already cat and dog. He's no better than cats and dogs, because he has no interest in this knowledge. He was meant for this knowledge but he remains like cats and dogs, therefore he is not satisfied, therefore he takes drugs to forget himself. This is the philosophy of drugs. He was meant for becoming satisfied by taking this knowledge. He does not get the chance. Nobody leads him to this knowledge. He remains like cats and dogs, but as a human being if he lives like cats and dogs, he'll never be happy. Because there is no happiness, therefore he takes drugs, to forget. This is the drug philosophy. Drug philosophy means to forget one's present suffering. He must suffer, because his consciousness is developed. He must take this Vedic knowledge, but he does not take. Therefore he is dissatisfied, and to counteract the dissatisfaction he takes drugs. This is drug philosophy. Kim: Perhaps often it is that, but... Prabhupada: Not perhaps. There is no question of perhaps. We want to speak factually. Kim: But Patanjali says that siddhis, powers, can be produced by drugs, so perhaps... Prabhupada: Drugs are meant for medicinal purposes, not for drinking or taking generally. Every herb, every vegetable, is a drug meant for curing a particular disease. This is nature's gift. Just like if you cut your finger, you take little grass and take a little juice and apply it. It will act as tincturizing, immediately. They are meant for this purpose. These vegetable, drugs, are meant for when you are sick or disturbed, you can utilize. Not for intoxication. Just like opium. If you have severe type of dysentery, diarrhea, a little opium it will immediately cure. But opium is not meant for using as an intoxication. There is use of opium. Morphia, opium, they have got use at a certain time, not for using it for intoxication. That is foolish. Amogha: Srila Prabhupada, can drugs sometimes be used to help us for spiritual realization? Prabhupada: No. That is nonsense. Spiritual realization means knowledge. Not to become intoxicated. The spiritual... Just like this is spiritual knowledge. So what the intoxicated person will understand? Even a sane man cannot understand. Then how he will understand in intoxication? It is foolishness. They are suffering material pangs. By taking drugs the suffering is forgotten, and he is thinking that is the solution. Spiritual means negation of material distress. So he is always suffering from material distress. By taking drug, temporarily he forgets it. Therefore he misunderstands "This is spiritual." That's not spiritual. Then committing suicide is also spiritual? One man is suffering, and the suffering is so great he cannot tolerate, therefore he sometimes commits suicide. Is that committing suicide spiritual? Spiritual means negation of material distresses, that's a fact. But that is a different thing. When you come to the spiritual platform, not by artificially forgetting your material suffering. That is not spiritual. Kim: Another question. I asked earlier about the nature of atman, now the nature of Brahman? Prabhupada: Brahman means the greatest, so as the sky, to our experience the sky is greater. What is the sky? The sky is a combination of small atoms. Do you know that? So if the sky is Brahman, then it is a combination of small atoms, then the small atoms are also Brahman? Just like a huge stack of rice, they are called rice, and a small grain of rice, that is also rice. So therefore there are two kinds of Brahman -- the component parts of the Brahman they are also Brahman, and whole Brahman is also Brahman. Do you follow? Kim: I hear the words. Prabhupada: Why don't you understand? Kim: I follow the analogy of the rice. Prabhupada: The sky, the Brahman. What is the sky? A combination of atoms. So the component parts they are also Brahman, otherwise how it is Brahman? Unless the component parts are Brahman, how is it Brahman? It is a combination of many component parts, small Brahman. Param Brahman. Param Brahman means the supreme. The sea water, ocean water. Ocean water is very big, that is Brahman. Big means Brahman. But what is this ocean water? Small molecules of water. Sometimes we see the sea waves, small molecules, cool. So it is combination of small Brahman. So, sarvam khalv idam brahma. Everything is Brahman. And we are a small, very small fragmental portion of Brahman. How small are we? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We cannot see even the tip of the hair, very small point. And you have to divide it into ten thousand parts. And that one part -- you, I, everyone. So small. So everything is Brahman. It is said sarva khalv idam brahma. Everything is Brahman. Why? Because the Brahman is very big, but what is this big? The big is a combination of small molecules, atoms. What is your idea of Brahman? Kim: From my own understanding I took it to be just the world, everything that is, but I don't understand. Prabhupada: Not clear idea. Kim: I had an experience in New Zealand... Prabhupada: So therefore you have to experience from authority -- what is Brahman. This is explanation of Brahman. So this Brahman realization is first, then Paramatma realization, then God realization. Just like you realize the sunshine, very big, all over the universe, but you have to see wherefrom the sunshine is coming -- the sun globe. That is localized. You are seeing just like a small ball, but actually this big thing, sunshine, is coming from it. Is it not? So which is important, the sunshine or the globe? Kim: They are both important, but the sun is what produces the sunshine. Prabhupada: Similarly God the person is important, and by His bodily rays the whole thing is going on. Yasya prabha prabhavato [Bs. 5.40]. Brahmano hi... Find out this verse-brahmano hi pratisthaham. Amogha: brahmano hi pratisthaham amrtasyavyayasya ca sasvatasya ca dharmasya sukhasyaikantikasya ca Translation: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal." Prabhupada: Purport? Amogha: Purport: "The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization; Paramatma, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization; and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. Therefore both Paramatma and the impersonal Brahman are within the Supreme Person. It is explained in the seventh chapter that material nature is a manifestation of the inferior energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord impregnates the inferior material nature with the fragments of the superior nature, and that is the spiritual touch in the material nature. When a living entity, conditioned by this material nature, begins the cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he elevates himself from the position of material existence and gradually rises up to the Brahman conception of the Supreme. This attainment of the Brahman conception of life is the first stage of self-realization. At this stage, the Brahman-realized person is transcendental to the material position, but he is not actually perfect in Brahman realization. If he works, he can continue to stay in the Brahman position and then gradually rise up to the Paramatama realization and then to the realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are many examples of this in Vedic literature. The four Kumaras were situated first in the impersonal Brahman conception of truth, but then they gradually rose to the platform of devotional service. One who cannot elevate himself beyond the impersonal conception of Brahman runs the risk of falling down. In Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that although a person may rise to the stage of impersonal Brahman, without going further, with no information of the Supreme Person, his intelligence is not perfectly clear. Therefore, in spite of being raised to the Brahman platform, there is the chance of falling down if one is not engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Vedic language it is also said, parasya vai samhi evayam labhvandamhi bhavati: when one understands the personality of God, the reservoir of pleasure, Krsna, he actually becomes transcendentally blissful." Prabhupada: That is required. Our nature is blissfulness. Unless we reach Krsna, talk with Him, dance with Him, eat with Him, enjoy life, our perfection is imperfect, not complete. Simply Brahman realization, just like simply to see, a child can see also the sunshine, but that does not mean he knows what is the sun, although the sunshine is coming from the sun. So unless you understand what is the actual sun, what is the person within the sun globe, our knowledge is imperfect. Simply realization of the big volume of sunshine, is not perfect. It is also light, and the sun globe is also light, heat. But this heat and light is not sufficient knowledge of the complete heat and light there. That is the difference between Brahman realization and God realization. Kim: What can be said about God realization? Prabhupada: I have given the example. Just like this sunshine is coming from the sun globe. Within the sun globe there is the president of the planet. Just like here on this planet you have got some president. Here there are many presidents, because it is hodgepodge, chaotic. But there everything is systematic. There is one person, his name is Vivasvan. He's the predominating deity. Krsna went to see him and talked with him about Bhagavad-gita. He's a person, and there the people, they are also persons. Just like in this planet. But here the body is predominantly made of earth, and there the body is predominantly of fire. Therefore it is so glowing. The glowing temperature, heat and light, is coming from the person, their body is made of glowing heat or fire. There are five material elements: earth, water, fire, air, and ether. In some planet the earth is prominent, in some planet the water is prominent, in some planets the fire is prominent. So the sun planet is prominent with fire. There the bodies made of the inhabitants there are fire. So all the combination of the fiery effulgence is the heat of the sun globe and that is being distributed. It is in the (indistinct). You can see and realize. Everything is there. If you study nature you will get everything. (end) >>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth
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all of the above should serve to clarify any doubts on the Real, Bona Fide practice of Krsna-conciousness with regards intoxication/drugs, etc.., coming from the words of the pure devotee of Sri Krsna, Srila Prabhupada, who speaks from the Vedas and the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is..
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Mod Post This thread has received moderation. We kindly request that members refrain from personal attacks and remain on topic. Thank you.
THANK YOU, (((((PAUL)))))!!! WE LOVE YOU!!!
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yes, I was wondering when the attacks by certain members on religion would stop here? It is against the forums guidelines to attack/slander ALL religions no matter what your screen name is, TRUE? Thank you.
