Boggle:

simplyrahil:

Kathryn O:

simplyrahil:

KO'C and her favourite 'self-righteous' copout everytime haha puhlease just because there is righteousness in the world within some people and there is none in you doesn't mean that they are 'self-righteous' they are simply righteous.. .

I've stated this before. Self Righteous("SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS" is the word) is the most destructive force in humanity. It is my life cause to stop it. (in fact, it leads to the destruction of other species). and yes, there is righteousness in me. It's just not the type you can recognize because it's for real.

self-righteousness is the same old song being sung whenever many who want to keep eating animals are faced with the moral stance that killing innocent animals is wrong and they have nothing else to validate such an unnecessary act of taking innocent life. no excuse for taking the life of any animal can ever be 'righteous' in any way, form or fashion. so i have no idea where that 'righteousness' you claim to possess is hiding. the point is it is wrong to kill innocent animals.

Kathryn O:

and just for the records, there is no such thing as being 'veg for the right reasons'. any reason is right.

if 'any reason is right', then what's your excuse for being in the wrong? (not veg at all, and constantly trying to find ways to bring down veganism) pardon. i don't want to hear it again. we've all heard all the excuses before.

You say people make up excuses when they eat meat because they have no justification. Well i make no excuses as i dont need to justifiy the fact that i like meat and if it means animals need to be killed to put meat on my plates so be it, i dont have a problem with that, the same way i dont have a problem with people not eating meat, although i do think that vegans are very strange people, dont understand them at all! So there you are, i admit it, I LIKE MEAT!

Kathryn O...you said: "and just for the records, there is no such thing as being 'veg for the right reasons'. any reason is right. " No, that is not true... The only reason to be vegan is to help sentient beings become free of the torment that humans foist on them... become free of human interference....free of pain, torture and death that they do NOT deserve and do NOT ask for. We have NO rights over animals...they should be allowed to live their own lives just as humans should be allowed to live theirs. We are ALL animals. This is a simple concept...it is NOT rocket science. "?It?s really not rocket science. If animals are not mere things; if they have moral value, we cannot justify eating, wearing, or using them particularly when we have no better reason than palate pleasure or fashion. If you are eating, wearing, or using animals, then your actions say that you regard them as mere things, despite what your words say.? ~ Gary Francione ____________________________ To Boggle... Good name for you, because you consistently boggle my mind with your lack of caring about non human animals.... You said: "Well i make no excuses as i dont need to justifiy the fact that i like meat and if it means animals need to be killed to put meat on my plates so be it, i dont have a problem with that........ " "So there you are, i admit it, I LIKE MEAT" guess what dude..... You like meat that does NOT belong to you... It belongs to the animals who were tortured, abused and slaughtered to "bring" it to your plate... I wonder how it feels to be that entitled, that you can't see the cruelty inherent in the meat, dairy and egg industries... Animals are suffering by the millions every single day, but so many of you simply do not care. How do you not care? Seriously? I bet you care about your family dog or cat... Your pets are animals just like the ones you choose to eat. Where do you draw the line? Because there should be NO line...if you want to be really fair, then you'd have no problem eating your family pet... ""Once you come to terms why you don?t eat dogs, cats, monkeys and dolphins, you?ll begin to understand why I don?t eat cows, pigs, chickens and lambs.? ~ Edward Sanchez

cfergoid:

simplyrahil:

semantics. whatever words wished to be used can never justify any of the taking of life of animals/the killing of animals/the MURDER of animals whatever words, whatever language, it's wrong.

I really think you should qualify that statement with "In my opinion"...

Killing people is wrong... Killing animals is wrong... Killing any being that does NOT want to die is wrong... So cfergoid, unless you think animals are ASKING to be killed/murdered, which I am SURE they are not... THIS topic is fact...not opinion...

Boggle:

simplyrahil:

Kathryn O:

and I have no guilt. I long ago stopped feeling that emotion and don't anymore.

ah that would explain A LOT please have that checked out.. one of the symptoms of a known mental disorder 'psychopathy' is 'lack of guilt'..

You are such a rude and obnoxious person i am surprised you have any friends or relationships with anyone!

@Boggle... "Rude and obnoxious" people are the ones, such as you, who are condoning and supporting the massive abuse, pain, terror and death innocent animals are subjected to, for absolutely NO good reason....other than your selfish greed and addiction to the taste of meat. The rest of us are vegans.....you can call us anything you want....we won't stand down and watch the rest of you act like barbaric cavemen/cavewomen any longer... We WILL stand up for what is morally right...even if we have to stand alone. We have seen the pits of hell that animals go through in video, picture and real time form, and that is the real tragedy in this...no matter how much meat eaters try to make themselves out to be the "wounded" ones..... Your excuses are weak and we've grown tired of hearing them.... We're here for the animals, the voiceless, the beings treated as commodities by humans who lack the ability to see anything but their own desires.... Ending an animals life, solely because you like the way he/she tastes, will always be the most pathetic excuse to do so... Always.

No matter how everyone tries to explain their choice to eat or not eat meat...one thing is a fact. You are "extreme" when you choose to condone, support and pay money into a system that abuses, tortures and kills billions of innocent animals a year. You are NOT "extreme" for trying to make people understand that is an unacceptable choice to begin with. Duke it out, hash it out, argue it out, scream it out, all you want...but...... Compassion and empathy for animal life is NOT extreme... Taking animal life for human greed IS extreme...

milcon1998 A Peaceful Place PostPosted: 12-03-2011 11:22 AM So eating cows, pigs, etc. is o.k. but you can't eat horses? I'm a long-time vegetarian so I eat neither but I don't see why eating horse meat should be banned and eating cow meat not. ___________________________________________________ Hell yes! This is just speciesism... thinking it's fine to eat one animal but not another......how about they all get a reprieve? http://thethinkingvegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/racismspeciesismsexism1.jpg [/img]

@me2 Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks. That's something different and very applicable to this thread. And not just this thread and not just one side. And therefore very interesting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know if studies have been done, at least that I can find, on "actual vegan" behavior, aggressive or not, in converting people... I was actually referring to the photos and videos graphic content as to influencing people to rethink their diets and meat use... I could have worded that sentence better, but it illustrates part of what we are discussing... That whether vegans are totally meek and quiet or more aggressive...non vegans will still take offense at what vegans are trying to get them to see...that using/eating animals is wrong. It is morally wrong to cause the constant pain and terror and death that animals go through, just so humans can taste what they are addicted to.... I have gently suggested a vegan food item instead of the giant steak someone is about to eat...and they blow up in my face... But I could say.....hey, jerk, how about you put down the blood soaked chunk of meat and wake up...and they would still blow up in my face... So what's the difference? Not much as far as I can see... Personally I try to always be gentle and careful with what I say...but to be honest I'm the one who gets crap ALL the time from non vegans..... no matter how careful I am..... So this swings both ways...vegans get attacked constantly...mocked constantly...ridiculed constantly...insulted constantly... And on top of that...we get to have meat commercials, magazine ads, TV spots, store displays, family dinner tables centered around meat, etc., etc.... The people who eat meat are certainly NOT having to cope with all that...are they? Seen too many vegan food commercials lately?....hahahahaha Nope, because our ENTIRE world is focused on meat/dairy/poultry...not vegan food. Yet vegans are always the ones who are supposedly "shoving our beliefs down everyone's throats".... I find that hard to stomach....literally.

I am NOT saying the more graphic photos and videos work on every single person...but that in my experience talking to people, online communications and what I have read on hundreds of sites as per people's experience with viewing those graphic images...that they are often a good starting point to get them thinking and wanting to do better in respect to their food choices. To think with compassion and empathy for animals "sometimes" requires that people get a rude awakening. Personally, I was vegetarian for 12 years and it wasn't until I watched graphic footage of dairy farming, and then researched and saw the horrific pictures that I went vegan and gave up all dairy products. I needed that awful jolt to see what I had been supporting in my own food choices. The amazing health benefits of eating a plant based diet is just a wondrous perk! I do this for animals...period. Because when people know the facts of what animals go through and then still contribute to it....that's the worst kind of hypocrisy. -------------------------------------------------- There are two studies on this site, one is not so positive about graphic images working...BUT, you need to read the entire article to see why they think that first study quoted was flawed and the second study done by the Humane Research Council (HRC) was more accurate. Read the whole article to get the full affect of what they are trying to say. Here is one of the studies: http://www.humanespot.org/content/video-comparison-study ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what was said about it here: http://strikingattheroots.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/how-do-graphic-images-affect-animal-advocacy/ The other study is linked in the article... -------- "The study, conducted by the Humane Research Council (HRC) on behalf of VegFund, asked people between the ages of 15 and 23 to watch vegetarian/vegan outreach videos and then complete a survey. Following the popular pay-per-view outreach model, each participant received $1.00 to watch one of four short videos. The videos were: Farm to Fridge (Mercy For Animals): An intensely graphic appeal to ethics/compassion using footage of farmed-animal abuse sourced mostly from undercover investigations. Maxine?s Dash for Freedom (Farm Sanctuary): An appeal to ethics/compassion by telling the story of a cow who escaped slaughter and was rescued. A Life Connected (Nonviolence United): An appeal for consumers to connect with concerns about the impact of factory farming on animals, the environment, and/or human health. Geico Couple (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine): An appeal to health concerns by telling the story of a couple who adopted a vegan diet and successfully lost weight. After watching the video, participants were asked questions about what they learned; if they wanted more information about eating vegetarian or vegan; about their current levels of meat, dairy, and egg consumption; and whether they intended to reduce consumption of any animal products. In contrast to the study carried out with partial funding from FARM, the HRC survey found that graphic images had the biggest impact, with the grisly candor of Farm to Fridge resulting in 36 percent of participants saying they were considering a reduction of the animal products they consume?that is an average of 7 percent better than the other, much less graphic, videos, even though viewers on average were only able to endure 78 percent of Mercy For Animals? video."

Kathryn...I wouldn't trust an ex vegan as far as I could throw one...seriously... You know better but continue to use animals for your own selfish needs...that's wrong and I think you know that, however deep down you have buried it... ""Evil is knowing better....but doing worse." Figure that out for yourself... Do you own google research...it's easy to find the studies I talked about...I won't do your homework for you. That said, a different approach works for different people. That's the way of humans. But I have spoken in person and through website contact with many, many people who have told me, that the graphic photos and videos are what started them thinking about veganism to begin with. Then they want the real life info next...vegan recipes, cruelty free living, non animal tested products, etc.... So I still contend that those graphics work, but should be paired with the other info at some point, to help people understand and have the skills to stop the horror being done to animals... But telling that to you is like talking to a brick wall, as you have already been vegan and then gone back to being cruel to animals for no good reason.......except that you simply don't care about other life forms... The more humane we are to ALL live beings in this world, the faster we will see peace. We cannot keep committing these atrocities on animals and expect that the abuse, torture, mutilation and death is not carrying over into all other parts of our lives. It is, that's a guarantee... Now the question is...why would anyone want to perpetuate that?

Dierdra wrote: A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... .......................................... me2 Learn To Fly Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks. ______________________________________ @ me2 I said "aggressive approaches", and to non vegans, that is virtually anything that makes them think about what they are doing! We vegans only have to "look" at non-vegans to get them going... I was not talking about acts of aggression...but just calling carnists out on the constant brutal murder of animals which happens every single day, across the entire world....simply because of human greed.... And that is considered an "aggressive approach" by carnists... Any words spoken by vegans is ammunition for them to jump up and start a riot...you just don't like being reminded, in any way, of what you support and pay for by your food choices. That is NOT our fault....that is your conscience talking...maybe you should listen to it.... There is nothing vegans can do, beyond treating carnists with kid gloves and gentle words...and we will NOT do that when the stakes are so astronomically high...for ALL the animals who are suffering.

I'm new here, but have been following this topic with great interest... A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. Many people I have talked with, both close friends and simply acquaintances have specifically told me that even though they were angry, uncomfortable and upset at first when they saw those types of photos/videos on mine and others facebooks, twitters, Tumblrs, etc., etc... those are exactly the things that made them reconsider what they were supporting and condoning in the first place. Yes, maybe not the first week, or the first month they saw them, but it did start having an effect and many, many of those people are now in the process of going vegan...or at the very least, vegetarian, with the intent to go vegan as soon as they can. So the more graphic info and tactics that show the horror of the meat/dairy/poultry industries may not work on everyone, but has its place, and is incredibly effective on many, many people ... Sadly, those of you who say you, "would go on being meat-eaters BECAUSE someone like you (vegans) accuses me."....or that you would actually switch from vegan to being a meat eater again because you don't like what you view as "typical vegan behavior"...are missing the point entirely... Which is...the killing of animals for food has caused a catastrophic effect on this planet and every life form on it. We have humans starving and suffering with no clean water......while food animals are fed well and water is wasted in alarming amounts on their care and raising...just to afford the meat eaters the chance to continue eating what they are "accustomed to" and refuse to do without.... You are taking a group of people...vegans...who try to live compassionately and with care and deep concern... towards the most innocent, but horrifically abused and tortured group of beings...animals...and then turning those vegans into your personal kicking posts. Why? Because basically, it really bothers you that you find it impossible to stop what you are doing and look at the bigger picture...which is the killing of innocent animals for absolutely no good reason at all...and the effect it has on the world at large... You can try to convince people all you want that you love meat, and have no problem that animals die in horrific ways to provide you that 10 minutes of taste...entire lives wiped out simply because of selfishness... You can try, but it honestly makes no sense... It is the highest insult to animals that people refuse to see what they are doing, and choose instead to just keep doing it...even though it is so obviously wrong... And...it is the highest insult to humans who are starving, while grain is stockpiled and fed to food animals.... Now, I'll stop for a bit and wait to be called angry...extreme...loudmouthed...rude...righteousness, etc. And then...I will ask you to read back through my post and point out any of that...because it is not there...it will just be your "perception" of what you want to see.... to excuse your behavior, not mine.