Sam Leach - KEEP
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mikeskapla:
stylegurl: Yes, I know that the column was going in a different direction -- I was more responding to a summary all of the other posts Paulfan has made on this subject. Paulfan: Macca clearly has his detractors as do most big artists -- Macca has more because he was in the biggest band of all time, it comes with the turf. In terms of fans though -- you just have to go to his shows to see that he has legions of fans. the media is again more likely to print negative letters or editorials because that's what sells. If you recall when a bunch of us wrote letters to the Rolling Stone concerning thier coverage of the song writing credits -- the magazine didn't print any of our letters. Having said all that, I don't discount the fact that Macca is an occassional whipping boy of the press -- among the Beatles he has clearly taken the most shots. I think a good part of it has to do with the fact that it was him against the other 3 Beatles when they dissolved consdiered the legal wrangiling. Macca & Wings were super sellers which make them the easier target of comparison to the Beatles and who can stack up against the Beatles. Crtics generally perfer Lennon's sardonic personality and lyrics as opposed to Macca's sunny personality and sometimes light lyrics. All this was compounded when Lennon died -- which lionized Lennon at the very time when Macca was derided for light pop hit songs alas Ebony and Ivory in the early 80s. Now, a lot of critics like to say that Macca is bitter at how he's regarded in comparison to Lennon -- to some degree I think that's true (I would be) but I think that Macca has mixed emotions about it -- at least that's how he seems reading his interviews. The ironic thing I think is that the media has propagated the Lennon versus Macca thing -- and created the Lennon is king image -- at the same time they criticize Macca for having issues about the comparison -- even though the issues are created by the media in the first place. In a lot of this coverage, Macca can't seem to win becuase if he says something or stands up for himself than the media is all over him for picking on a dead artist. However, to me it doesn't look like Macca is concerned as much about his rep compared to Lennon but just his own rep in general. Macca wanting Yesterday to be credited to him -- seems to have nothing to do with Macca taking Lennon down but only to do with taking credit for a song he wrote. It's the media that creates this image. My point is that the media likes to create the Lennon versus Macca thing -- and yeah I think they have been successful at moving Macca down from Lennon's equal to someone who isn't and is jealous about it. However, if you pin down most of these snobbby critics they will admit that Macca is one of music's all time greats -- they just are fiesty about ensuring that Macca isn't regarded the same respect that Lennon has -- and most of them accomplish that goal by being nasty.
Mike, I understand Macca having detractors. Of course being big will also cause people to knock you as well as praise you. They build you up then tear you down. I remember when we wrote to Rolling Stoen and none of our letters got printed. It is funny how all the negative stuff sells. I always wonder why critics prefer Lennon's personality over Macca's? IS it because they aren't happy with themselves or are jealous that they don't like a shiny personality? I wouldn't be surprised if Macca would worry about his rep. He may not worry so much but I think he does want his place in history like Lennon has his. I agree with you that because Macca was against the other three in a lawsuit that people hate him. IT is funny how the media has elevated Lennon at Macca's expense. Didn't Paul make up with John and George bfore they died? IF so I wonder why critics are still bitter at him for the lawsuit? You are rigth when you say that if Macca sticks up for himself the media will be all over him. Lennon's death has given rise to their bias against Paul. When Goerge was alive I don't recall as many nasty things written about him. In fact my cousin who is 21 said a few years ago that she liked John and Gorge. I said I liked Paul and she said he was girly and had an annoying voice. This was the year before Goerge died. Even my friend's sister has said she likes John and doesn't like Paul and Paul needs to go away. She said John got wierd near the end of his life but made good music and said Paul doesn't amke good msuic anymore. On a happier note my best friend used to think Paul's music was too soft when No More Lonely Nights came out. We were 12 and 13 back then. Now at age 32 he realizes what a mistake he made and apologized to me an year or two ago and realizes how tlaented Paul i.s I hope that other people will come around like he did.
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By the way Mike, My e-mail to Walter Scott is in the broadcast section if you want to read it. It is hard for me to remember all of it and post it here so if you want to see it go to my thread in the boradcast forum called Parade magazine article on Paul.
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Actually it is called Parade magazine piece about Paul. sorry about that.
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Hello Everyone have a good week!
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Paulfan Read your posts on the Broadcast section, etc. Heck in terms of people I personally know more people pick Macca as their favorite Beatle - I think fans are mixed between Lennon and Macca as their favorite artist. Where Macca loses (BUT FAR FROM WITH EVERYONE) is with critics -- more critics prefer Lennon, some prefer Macca and some are mixed. While I agree with you that Macca isn't regarded as much as he should be -- I depart a little from your sentiment that things are dire and too many people loathe Macca. Macca is doing superb in the department of having doting fans -- it's one of the reasons why he out sold all the other Beatles combined as a solo artist, it's the reason why his concerts break records around the world -- it's the reason why he is so big that the networks put his music specials on prime time TV, Macca has the record of having the most Internet questions thrown at any artist when he had his Internet web chat duing the Flaming Pie. VH1 dedicated a whole week to Macca's music as far as I can recall 3 different times. When Macca appeared on Leno a few years back he was one of the few artists ever to have the whole show dedicated just to him. On just about every big gig including Live Aide -- Macca is the close -- last act showstopper. Bob Geldof said in his book when he was preparing live aide that the one act that he knew would bring in millions of views that otherwise wouldn't watch -- was Paul McCartney. Now to me its very obvious that Macca arguably has more fans that any other artist on the planet. If he's not #1 (I think he is) he's pretty darn close to the top. Thereby, I wouldn't worry one whit about Macca not having enough adoring fans -- just becuase some of the people in your circles don't care for him or you read an attack by a snobby critic. In my view the place of concern is that I'd like to say Macca for once ranked first in music survey's as the biggest artist ever opposed to somewhere from #2 to #10 in these magazines. Again reading between the lines even the magazines like Rolling Stone that bash Macca accept his greatness -- that magazine gave Tug of War 5 stars -- a better rating than anything they gave Lennon. Mojo ranked the best Beatle solo albums and ranked McCartney #1. Q magazine ranked the best song writers of all time and gave McCartney #2 right behind Lennon. Beyond the bashing he takes, McCartney does relatively well with critics but they do enough to ensure he's not on top by taking shots at him. Critics Macca needs a little lift with -- in terms of fans, Macca is doing superb. Cheers! Mike
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Just wanted to pop in and say a quick hello. I hope that everone had a good weekend.
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mikeskapla:
Paulfan: Read your posts on the Broadcast section, etc. Heck in terms of people I personally know more people pick Macca as their favorite Beatle - I think fans are mixed between Lennon and Macca as their favorite artist. Where Macca loses (BUT FAR FROM WITH EVERYONE) is with critics -- more critics prefer Lennon, some prefer Macca and some are mixed. While I agree with you that Macca isn't regarded as much as he should be -- I depart a little from your sentiment that things are dire and too many people loathe Macca. Macca is doing superb in the department of having doting fans -- it's one of the reasons why he out sold all the other Beatles combined as a solo artist, it's the reason why his concerts break records around the world -- it's the reason why he is so big that the networks put his music specials on prime time TV, Macca has the record of having the most Internet questions thrown at any artist when he had his Internet web chat duing the Flaming Pie. VH1 dedicated a whole week to Macca's music as far as I can recall 3 different times. When Macca appeared on Leno a few years back he was one of the few artists ever to have the whole show dedicated just to him. On just about every big gig including Live Aide -- Macca is the close -- last act showstopper. Bob Geldof said in his book when he was preparing live aide that the one act that he knew would bring in millions of views that otherwise wouldn't watch -- was Paul McCartney. Now to me its very obvious that Macca arguably has more fans that any other artist on the planet. If he's not #1 (I think he is) he's pretty darn close to the top. Thereby, I wouldn't worry one whit about Macca not having enough adoring fans -- just becuase some of the people in your circles don't care for him or you read an attack by a snobby critic. In my view the place of concern is that I'd like to say Macca for once ranked first in music survey's as the biggest artist ever opposed to somewhere from #2 to #10 in these magazines. Again reading between the lines even the magazines like Rolling Stone that bash Macca accept his greatness -- that magazine gave Tug of War 5 stars -- a better rating than anything they gave Lennon. Mojo ranked the best Beatle solo albums and ranked McCartney #1. Q magazine ranked the best song writers of all time and gave McCartney #2 right behind Lennon. Beyond the bashing he takes, McCartney does relatively well with critics but they do enough to ensure he's not on top by taking shots at him. Critics Macca needs a little lift with -- in terms of fans, Macca is doing superb. Cheers! Mike
Mike, I know Paul has fans and is doing well. The thing is that some people think he is only popular because he was in the Beatles. What I mean to say is that people act like he wasn't any good without Lennon and when I try to explain to people he old the most records as a solo artist they think it was because he was in the Beatles and mostly women like his music. I mean some people act like Silly Love Songs is a woamn's type of song. I even mentioned that his concerts sold out and they think it is because he sings Beatles songs. Some act like he wasn't any good without Lennon. IT is good to see Bob Geldoff say good things about him and see Vh1 and Leno dedicate shows to him and him be the last act at Live aid and other benefit shows. Of course not everyone can like Paul I understand that but the thing I hate is that people who are meaner than him get praised more than he does. Some people t hink just because he sells lots of records and has lots of number ones doesn't amke him good and will say stuff like Britney Spears sells lots of albums but has no talent. My problem is not so much people not being Macca fans but when nasty articles are written about hima nd people may start to believe it and say I don't see why you like Macca and think we blindly like Macca and look at him with rose colored glasses. I was also worried that if something bad came up about macca people will say see I told you so. They think we are aprtial to Macca and agree with everything he does and says. I also would like to see him be number one in music surveys. Forgive me for complaining about this alot but I'll wind up doing it again. I hope one day I won't feel bad about Macca being picked on and next time I will stand strongg if I hear him get picked on.
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Hi Tashi how are you doing?
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Hi Giri, I am doing fine, thank you. I should be in bed because I have work tomorrow! How are you doing?
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I'm doing fine Tashi. I should also be in bed for it is past 1:00 a.m. where I live.
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I think Paul will not get the respect he deserves until he retires or, God forbid, dies. Being murdered seemed to elevate John to saint status and none of us is a saint. I saw the Parade article and just decided the guy didn't have a clue.
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Hi Paulfan I hear what you are saying but again people can only bother you if you let it bother you -- so I wouldn't let it at least not in the fan department. It's like having people criticize a football team that won the Super Bowl becuase they didn't win all their games. There is alaways something to pick on. The people that say McCartney was nothing without Lennon simply do not know much about the Beatles -- otherwise they would know that they wrote mostly apart. I've heard you in the past on the subject about people you know criticizing Macca for being soft -- again they don't know his music. You could easily put together 2 albums worth of hard rockers and play it to these fans -- Beware My Love, Soliy Rinse the Raindrops, About You, Woman Oh Why, Monkberry Moon Delight, 1985, Getting Closer, So Glad To See You, etc, etc. I played Rinse the Raindrops to a teenager I knew who thought Macca was too soft -- and her impression changed in an instant. Cheers! Mike
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Hello gang. I'm back for a quick post but I've been reading all your posts which are interesting and thought provoking...especially yours Mike. But Paulfan. Whenever you talk of Paul being criticised in actual fact you're adding to it. Juts let it all slide. Paul's talent will overcome all this crap/ And I've seen plentty of pro Macca stuff so don't get so upset. Back tomorrow everyone. Love to you all.....I'm working hard !! Sam xxxx
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Sam, IT isn't so easy to let it slide. I've tried to in the past and decided it was about time to stick up for him. If we keep ignoring sometimes we get pusehd around too much. IT is just like when we go to war if we don't stand up the bad guys win. IF only one person picked on macca I would ignore it but after seeing alot of it I would want to set teh record straight just like Macca wanted to in Many Years From Now and by switiching the songwriting credits on the Back In The Us cd. I don't want to start anything but I only borught it up this time because I wanted the writer of Parade to get his facts straight and not write inaccuarcies about him. I wish I could ignore it but when it gets to be so much it is ahrd to.
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Hi Paulfan My view is to take the newspaper critics to task -- and show them that we are watching the drivel they put out. In terms of people you know who seem to like to goad you about Macca -- I suspect they are only goading you becuase they know they can get you going. The people that get teased the most are generally the one's who seem most affected by it. If you show them their criticism has no impact on you -- then you take away their power. I agree with Sam if you constantly repeat the criticism you actually make it grow. It's a rule of thumb that I use with my political mail -- don't repeat the negatives being thrown at your candidate but that only gives it more life. Cheers! Mike
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Mike, How do we put these people in their place than? I mean we have to keep these people from pushing us around ana Macca around. I guess these people just love getting reactions. How do we put them in their place wihtout letting us see we get upset?
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Paulfan Sometimes the best way to handle it is to show no reaction -- that's one way to show real power. I generally try to take newspaper critics to task and will sometimes argue with people that take shots at Macca on this board -- but in those cases am arguing with people that tout themselves as informed on the subject and have credibility and an audience -- and I probably should ignore some of these people, too. My point is that I know where you are coming from. In terms of more passive music fans like the ones you are referring to who clearly don't know much about Macca or the Beatles -- I would show no reaction or laugh and say they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Keep in mind they can't really endanger Macca's rep becuase they have no real audience. Trust that indifference will get to them more than you arguing with them -- actually by arguing with them you are showing them they they do get to you and they will keep at it. Put people as you put it in their place by acting indifferent -- the act of indifference oftens bothers people much more than arguments -- again, the opposite of love isn't hate but indifference. It takes more discipline to act indifferent then to spew back at others -- but hang in there you'll see it works over time. Cheers! Mike
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I guess you are right Mike. AS reaction will prove their point. I have heard you saying that indifference is tha cause of this. You may be right that arguiing will cause more problems. I do beleive though that they ahve to be put in their place otherwise they will shove you around. THe way I see it is like a man using his pwoer over a woman by beating her up or a big guy picking on a small guy. I hate complaining about Macca getting picked on all the time but I would like to see these people back off. That would be great if it doesn't hurt Macca's rep. GIve me an example of how to put these people in their palce and I'll try it out.
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Paulfan An example -- hmm based on your posts something like Someone says McCartney couldn't do anything without Lennon Paulfan's response Any one that knows music and the Beatles would know that Lennon and Mccartney basically wrote their own songs - (laugh as opposed to sound bitter) so talk to me when you get a clue about music. They come back and egg you on again about the same thing Paulfan laugh, and say look I thought you knew music, you don't know music so am not going to waste my time arguing with you. They come back Paulfan Allright buddy -- laugh -- if it makes you feel good to think that way, good luck to ya.
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Thanks Mike I'll try that. Remind me if I mentione Macca being pciekd on again. I hope it works. Wish me luck. IF I didn't tell you my best friend came around to thinking Macca was talented. He was 12 when he thought Maccas was too soft and now realizes how great he is. I do hope I won't feel as bad someday. I hope I'll have the courage to try it and it works. One guy said the Beatles were overrated once and I told him lots of bands were influenced by them and he siad not Jimi Hendrix. He said they xcan't play instruments and another guy there said they wrote good songs and he said they wrote crap lyrics like I Want TO Hol Your Hand etc. Later on me and the guy who stuck up for the Beatles talked and he said you know they aren't overrated. I hope what you just told me works. I'll elt you know if it does.