The ..2012.... Political thread
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Peacetrain, I hope you can take it as good as you give it because you're gonna get it.
Stopped reading when I read this.
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Cristian24:
Peacetrain, I hope you can take it as good as you give it because you're gonna get it.
Stopped reading when I read this.
Christian24, Let me see if I got this right. Peacetrain takes part of a single sentence from a four paragraph post out of context and you have no problem with that and no problem with Peacetrain initiating personal attacks at me based on intentional lies made up about me by him. You even joined in and I didn't reply back to you because I figured you actually believed Peacetrain's lies. Because when someone takes something out of context they usually at least use a full sentence to intentionally misrepresent me. I was wrong about that. After all, SurSteven initiated a personal insult against me shortly your first sarcastic remarks and you didn't jump in like someone who was above it all because you're not above anything. I ignored his insult directed at me because I figured that he was also conned by Peacetrain. But I defend myself from uncalled for personal attacks initiated by Peacetrain and suddenly you're above it all. "Stopped reading" . My oh my. The hypocrisy is as comical as it is pathetic. There's a book called "Wrong on Race" by Bruce Bartlett. I suggest that you all read it. You might actually learn about something unknown to you all: truth.
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jaipur:
Hey MikeMc..... Hadn't heard about the Switzerland thing. Just thought I point out that Americans do live overseas and do vote. If that is indeed supposed to be a fundraiser, seems to me that's where the money would come from. You'd be surprised at how many Americans vote even though they haven't lived here. I don't think McCain is that great on his feet either. But that's irrevelant for either candidate for me...not a big deal. I can understand Arhnold's position about drilling off of California and with some states along the east coast, though it seems to me now that even if we were to drill, that doesn't mean we necessarily keep the oil for our own purposes....it would be sold on the open market. By expanding supply that might lower prices but that would only occur in ten years. And if you were to drill along the east coast, you have to factor in that the east coast seems to be more affective by hurricanes than the gulf. I still agree with T. Boone though.....we can't simply drill out way out of the energy problem. btw, the Supreme Court recently ruled in favor of ExxonMobil about the Valdez spill, so they aren't paying as much.
Hi Jaipur, I was caught off guard about the Switzerland fundraiser because I read about it on a conservative web site and couldn't find anything at all in the mainstream. The closest to MSM was info about it on a CNN blog. The way I see it is that while Obama might have impressed some Berliners, campaigning in Germany didn't sit well with many Americans. He's already lost the uptick in the polls after he got such nice coverage on his world tour. I'm sure you know I have no respect for the msm, but I was impressed by the way Katie Couric asked Obama tough questions about the success of the surge in Iraq. My thinking is that the msm are burying this story because a Swiss fundraiser hosted by Alec Baldwin won't sit well at home. There are American citizens all over the world that will be filing absentee ballots, but I never heard of a presidential candidate doing a fundraiser overseas. I have a feeling this is gonna cost him a lot of votes. When Obama was in Berlin I was wondering how many people were being newly registered to vote in Berlin for this upcoming election. The group ACORN came to mind immediately because in most instances of voter fraud their fingerprints are all over it. My sister was in Berlin a week before Obama. Politics weren't discussed much, though I did tell her to thank the Germans you're meeting up with because German jet fighter patrolled the skies over New York in the days following 911. She mentioned it on two occasions and asked also what they thought about Obama's upcoming rally/speech. The first person was very insulted and said he's got some pair coming into our country to campaign for an election in the U.S. You Americans would likely be insulted too if the situation was reversed. The other person she spoke with said it's a major pain in the neck already trying to get around town and it's only gonna get worse. And she opined that Obama's an idiot if he thinks he's impressing any of us. I never saw stories like that on the evening news. I'm not impressed with McCain either. Until recently it looked to me like he didn't even want to get elected, kinda like Dole in 96. If he's elected I don't think he's gonna run for a second term. Bill Clinton,claiming after the fact, that he was talking about Mandella when he said people held prisoner under horrific conditions crack up at some point. It could take months or years or decades. (that's paraphrased). When McCain heard about it he didn't care and just shrugged it off. But, when the New Yorker had that horrible magazine cover of the Obama's, McCain was one of the first to condemn it in no uncertain terms. Was McCain not even aware that the liberal New Yorker said they portrayed the Obamas like that to show how ignorant conservatives see them? McCain should be in the business covering his own ass only. I have no problem with Arnold saying no to drilling offshore in California, as long as he's carrying out the will of the people and they know a lot of $$$$ gets paid to the state for drilling. Most on the east coast want it, including the citizens of Florida with 70% polled in favor. New Jersey residents want drilling but their governor refuses. That's when it bothers me. Drilling is all we got because we are still totally dependent on oil. Pickens plans will hopefully work in the future but there's still a lot of technology needed to be developed. Pickens isn't doing this out of the goodness of his heart. He invested $2 billion of his money on wind turbines. Now he wants the government to pony up with "real" money. $2 billion is barely enough to get Pickens plan moving. I believe in small areas using wind for electricity some aress keeps losing power because the wind often stops. I could be wrong but I don't think the energy from wind can be stored. It gets lost if it doesn't get used. That will change over time. From the stuff I read it's gonna take 20 to 50 years before wind and solar can do what we want it do do. In the meantime we have to drill drill drill. Some places will take ten years. All the more reason to start now. Some areas in the Gulf of Mexico could have oil available in less than two years. But the thought of ten years angers me because when Bill Clinton vetoed drilling in ANWR in 95 he said the reason is it will take ten years. We could sure use that oil now. The more oil on the world market the lower the price. Laws can be changed restricting where certain oil can go so that it stays at home. But I think it wouldn't make a difference in the price. The rigs of today can handle the hurricanes. Katrina and Rita didn't cause any disasters in the Gulf. Exxon paid all the costs involved in the cleanup which I'm sure still affects some areas. Much of the money was paid to locals whose industries had to shut down. It was the $5 billion punitive that was overturned. I don't know if it was reduced or thrown out entirely. Drilling will do a lot towards balancing our trade. $700 billion is what we pay each year for imported oil. That money could do a lot more at home and it will create a lot of well paying jobs. That income will keep passing all around the country creating lots of secondary jobs.
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American Wind Energy Association http://www.awea.org/
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Mikemc:
Let me say it again for your ignorant eyes to see: Obama is racist against white people. Read some of his books. After his Kenyan dad ran off to go back to his first wife, YES, HE WAS A POLYGAMIST, you omitted all of that in my quote and you're too dumb to comprehend that anyone can go back a page and read it, Obama was eventually put into the hands of a radical black communist by the name of FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS. Obama's white grandparents, the only ones who took care of him, hooked him up with Davis to be a mentor while he was a young teenager. Davis was so much of a Stalinist that he opposed the US involvement in World War 2, but changed to a US supporter ONLY after Germany invaded Soviet Russia. That's why so many on the far left, probably yourself included, hate Hitler and often use Hitler as their only example of evil. They don't care about oppressive regimes that torture, murder, rape and commit genocide. Now their love for the oppression of Red China is gradually changing because millions of Chinese have moved up to middle class because Red China has embraced limited capitalism. But cheer up, millions of North Koreans are still tortured, murdered, jailed in real gulags, or starve to death every year. Frank Davis was a recruiter and racial agitator for the CPUSA and is mentioned in Obama's book, Dreams From my father. He was referred to as Frank. But when the race picks up steam after Labor Day the whole country will come to know the name Frank Davis. Let's not forget that he belonged to that sorry excuse for a church for over 20 years and considered "Rev Wright" to also be a mentor. A white politician would have his career ended the moment word got out that he belonged to a racist white church. Back to Obama and racism. He's been using the race card for a few months now saying "they will tell you I have a funny name, they will say oh, and did I tell you he's black". Of course he can't name any names because he's the racist, not his opposition. There is no "they". But that's probably more than you can comprehend. He said that stuff before a primarily black audience in Florida. He hosted a private fund raiser for rich San Francisco liberals. No cameras permitted. Someone used their cell phone camera and caught him bashing white blue collar workers from Pennsylvania. In other places he played the race card with words like -'he looks different' 'he doesn't look like those other presidents on the currency'. He can't, and you can't cite specific examples of his opposition attacking Obama because of the color of his skin. Even BILL CLINTON said they played the race card on him and planned long in advance to do so. He had their papers to prove it. I noticed that no one from the Obama campaign challenged Bill Clinton on that.
None of this convinces me Obama is racist. Looks like a lot of guilt by association. Sure, throughout Obama's life he has been associated with some questionable people, but that doesn't mean he has embraced their views. If you could prove that he has, I would buy your argument. But it looks to me that he has directly denounced their views, specifically regarding Rev. Wright. Also, I grew up in, and still visit often, a rural community in which racism is still at full-force (does that mean I'm racist by association, too?). Having encountered MANY people who will not vote for Obama because of the color of his skin, I don't have any problem with Obama acknowledging that people are judging him by this criteria. Because, I, for one, have witnessed them firsthand. As Peacetrain pointed out, racism does still exist and just by saying so isn't racist in itself. I don't consider any comment regarding it to be "playing the racecard." To expect him to ignore the racism against him is ridiculous, even if it does make some people uncomfortable. On a side note, I don't really see why you feel it's necessary to resort to all this "ignorant eyes", "you're too dumb to comprehend" nonsense. None of this bullying is strengthening your argument.
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Hi cremetangerine, Thanks for your reply on the substance of the post. But first let me address your last paragraph. It was peacetrain who initiated the attacks against me. Why did you defend what peacetrain said? In that post he was calling me a racist. Why didn't you call him on his first sentence directed at me when he said to me: You have some nerve to keep spweing foolish lie after lie When he posted part of a sentence of mine that's what he said to me when he initiated an attack on me. The rest of what he said implied I am a racist when he continued his unprovoked attack. Why is it that you had no problem with that and attacks against me on the next two posts that followed his post? Are you of the belief that's it's okay to attack someone but it's not okay to respond in kind? I ask that because I can't understand why you would go after me for defending myself and not the person who started it and the two people who followed him. Please explain. While I have no reason to doubt you encountered people who won't vote for Obama because of his skin color polling data shows blacks are voting based on skin color in far higher percentages than whites. If one votes for or against someone based on skin color than the person is racist. I never bought into the line that only whites can be racist. Obama sure looks guilty by association. If he found himself associated with one or two bad actors it would be one thing, but he's had associations with a lot of bad people for a long time. We've been told not to judge Obama by his racist pastor. McCain or any white Republican would have his career ended if he attended church for 20 years with a racist white pastor who preached hatred against blacks from the pulpit. Do you think anyone would believe McCain if he said he didn't know his pastor and friend for over 20 years was like that? I wouldn't believe him, and I know he would not have the Republican nomination. The leadership of the Party would force him out. When David Duke ran for office in Louisiana as a Republican the Republican Party endorsed his Democrat opponent. On my first post on this thread I was defending Obama and wanted him to beat Hillary. Then too many things started coming to light. I'm sure there's still a lot more we will hear and it wouldn't surprise me if Hillary got the nomination at the Convention. She still has her delegates and she got more votes in history than anyone else in a presidential primary. In his first book, "Dreams From My Father" , Obama said many things to convince me he's a racist. I really wish it wasn't so. Here's a small part of what's in his book: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at age 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites." He wrote that in high school, he and a black friend would so0metimes speak disparagingly "about white folks this or white folks that, and I would suddenly remember my mother's smile, and the words that I spoke would seem awkward and false." Then he concluded "certain whites could be excluded from the general category of distrust." During college, Obama disapproved of what he called "half breeds" who gravitated towards whites instead of blacks. And yet after college, he once fell in love with a white woman, only to push her away when he concluded he would have to assimilate into her world, not the other way around. He later married a black woman, Michelle. That book was published in 1995 when he was 34 and not yet in politics. In 2004, when he ran for the senate he admitted that "certain passages have proven to be inconvenient politically". That kind of stuff would be a career killer for a white Republican. He wrote about his time at Occidental College. "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists." Obama eventually went to Chicago to interview for a job as a community organizer. His "racial attitudes" came into play as he sized up the man who would become his boss. "There was something about him that made me wary. A little too sure of himself, maybe. And White." There's so much more. He recently referred to his grandma as "a typical white person." He also said it made him cringe when his grandma spoke negative against blacks. As well it should. Yet, he spent 20+ years hearing Rev Wright's ripping apart white people but that didn't make him "cringe". He even defended him as long as he could. If a white Republican senator referred to any black person as a "typical black person" his career would be over. It would be front page news all across the country. But Obama uses that phrase about a white person and it turns out that's one of the milder racist remarks he made against white people. He's said far worse stuff. His own words over and over over is what convinced me he's a racist. It wasn't something I decided I wanted to do. Obama made the choice for me with his lifelong track record of making racist statements.
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Interesting article from The Wall Street Journals MarketWatch Title "Why McCain would be a mediocre president" http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-mccain-would-mediocre-president/story.aspx?guid=%7b4914192B-12AF-4623-AB18-5EFE91204B04%7d&print=true&dist=printMidSection I think he would be worse than mediocre but WSJ is considered part of McSames base so I guess they didn't want to be too critical
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God, I love this, so much...
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Obamas new book "Change You Can Believe In" coming out Sept. 9 sounds good http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12432.html
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McCain condemnation upstages Bush By Edward Luce and Andrew Ward in Washington Published: August 11 2008 19:33 | Last updated: August 11 2008 19:33 John McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, on Monday upstaged George W. Bush?s administration over the Georgia crisis with his strongest statement so far calling on the US and its allies to come together in ?universal condemnation of Russian aggression?. Mr McCain, who gave his first response early last Friday several hours before any official word from the Bush administration, said the US should take steps to assist Georgia and other democracies in the region that he said were threatened by Russia?s actions. ?Russia?s aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States,? said Mr McCain. ?The implications go beyond their threat to . . . a democratic Georgia. Russia is using violence against Georgia, in part, to intimidate other neighbours such as Ukraine, for choosing to associate with the west.? Mr McCain?s statement ? his third since the crisis began ? stood in clear contrast on Monday to the relatively low-key response of the Bush administration and the Obama campaign. Barack Obama himself issued a statement on Saturday but remains on vacation in Hawaii. President Bush, at the Beijing Olympics on Saturday, expressed ?grave concern? about Moscow?s ?disproportionate response? in South Ossetia, but did not follow Mr McCain in portraying the crisis as a watershed moment for democracy in the region. link to entire article: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c3508ce2-67d1-11dd-8d3b-0000779fd18c.html
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Edwards' Cover-up Cost Clinton the Nomination Aides Say She Would Have Won Iowa if Edwards Affair was Exposed By BRIAN ROSS and JAKE TAPPER August 11, 2008 Sen. Hillary Clinton would be the Democratic presidential nominee if John Edwards had been caught in his lie about an extramarital affair and forced out of the race last year, insists a top Clinton campaign aide, making a charge that could exacerbate previously existing tensions between the camps of Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama. "I believe we would have won Iowa, and Clinton today would therefore have been the nominee," former Clinton Communications Director Howard Wolfson told ABCNews.com. Clinton finished third in the Iowa caucuses barely behind Edwards in second place and Obama in first. The momentum of the insurgent Obama campaign beating two better-known candidates -- not to mention an African-American winning in such an overwhelmingly white state -- changed the dynamics of the race forever. Obama won 37.6 per cent of the vote. Edwards won 29.7 per cent and Clinton won 29.5 per cent, according to results posted by the Iowa Democratic Party. "Our voters and Edwards' voters were the same people," Wolfson said the Clinton polls showed. "They were older, pro-union. Not all, but maybe two-thirds of them would have been for us and we would have barely beaten Obama." Two months earlier, Edwards had vociferously, but falsely, denied a story in the National Enquirer about the alleged affair last October, and few in the mainstream media even reported the denial. The lie "certainly had an impact on the election," Wolfson said. link to entire article: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5553013&page=1
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mustangsally10:
Interesting article from The Wall Street Journals MarketWatch Title "Why McCain would be a mediocre president" http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-mccain-would-mediocre-president/story.aspx?guid=%7b4914192B-12AF-4623-AB18-5EFE91204B04%7d&print=true&dist=printMidSection I think he would be worse than mediocre but WSJ is considered part of McSames base so I guess they didn't want to be too critical
This is the first election I can recall in my lifetime where both candidates suck. I'm 53, so the first one I can recall where I was able to comprehend some issues was 1968. I remember the JFK assassination and Johnson running in 64. I also remember Johnson going on tv in 68 saying he will not seek his Party's nomination. If Obama wins in November I think he will be making the same speech in 2012. No matter who gets elected I think they're gonna be a one term president. McCain because age will catch up with him. And Obama who's gonna be another Jimmy Carter and the whole country will be glad to get rid of him, including liberals. If Hillary is offered and takes the vp slot she won't be able to run in 2012 if Obama runs for reelection. Personally, I think it would be a step down for her to take the vp slot under Obama. She can't run for eight years if she's on Obama's ticket and he wins and seeks reelection. Then Republicans will be saying she's too old. McCain better find a top notch vp because he/she will likely be the 2012 Republican nominee.
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Andy_Shofar:
I am fully supportive of MikeMc's views - he just happens to be a much better debator than I. Keep your eye on both Clinton's - their fight is not over. Neither of them want B. Obama to win to assure that Hillary can enter the next election race in 2011/12. They want McCain to win - to assure a shoe in on her part against McCain in the following election.
Hi Andy, thanks for sticking up for me when no one else would. I also believe the Clinton's want Obama to lose.
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The Republican administration had 1,000 of our troops in Georgia training Georgian soldiers. Our troops were withdrawn. Georgia invaded South Ossetia shortly thereafter. Russia invaded Georgia right after that. Less then one year after we voted this last Republican administration into office 8 years ago...we had crazy people come after us. my question is... Do republicans bring out the war in everyone.......or is it war's fault for bringing out the republican in everyone?
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Mikemc:
Andy_Shofar:
I am fully supportive of MikeMc's views - he just happens to be a much better debator than I. Keep your eye on both Clinton's - their fight is not over. Neither of them want B. Obama to win to assure that Hillary can enter the next election race in 2011/12. They want McCain to win - to assure a shoe in on her part against McCain in the following election.
Hi Andy, thanks for sticking up for me when no one else would. I also believe the Clinton's want Obama to lose.
You can count on me, Mike - at the very least to post articles that are thought provoking. I believe that Howard Wolfson's view expressesed in the above article is probably more correct than incorrect. Edwards' coverup did cause Hillary to loose the nomination and/or at least prevented her from gaining more traction to the nomination.
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SurSteven:
The Republican administration had 1,000 of our troops in Georgia training Georgian soldiers. Our troops were withdrawn. Georgia invaded South Ossetia shortly thereafter. Russia invaded Georgia right after that. Less then one year after we voted this last Republican administration into office 8 years ago...we had crazy people come after us. my question is... Do republicans bring out the war in everyone.......or is it war's fault for bringing out the republican in everyone?
what he said!
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Just received an email from David Plouffe, campaign manager for Barack Obama. There are now over 2,000,000 - 2 MILLON individual donors to Obamas campaign--WOO-HOO this is unprecedented in campaign history President Obama sponsored by THE PEOPLE
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SurSteven:
The Republican administration had 1,000 of our troops in Georgia training Georgian soldiers. Our troops were withdrawn. Georgia invaded South Ossetia shortly thereafter. Russia invaded Georgia right after that. Less then one year after we voted this last Republican administration into office 8 years ago...we had crazy people come after us. my question is... Do republicans bring out the war in everyone.......or is it war's fault for bringing out the republican in everyone?
That's easy to answer: Republicans have to clean up the mess left behind by Democrats. Think about it, Bill Clinton, who loathed the military, decimated it while in office. The country liked him for the most part because we didn't feel the effects of the Army running out of the most basic supplies. Older planes had to be cannibalized for parts from other older planes because there was no money for new parts or new planes. Tanks were unusable because they were falling apart from lack of maintenance. The Navy had it even worse. The money taken from the military was used for social programs and to balance the budget. Any idiot president can balance the budget by cutting major funds intended for the military. Heck, you can even balance the budget by cutting back federal social programs. The budget shouldn't be balanced at the expense of either one. The Soviet Empire collapsed under George Bush Senior, so Clinton used that "peacetime dividend" to ruin the military. He wasn't just content with that, he put into law a rule not allowing the CIA to get involved with bad people for intelligence. So they had nothing to work with to obtain human intelligence. Bozo Bubba decided we can get all of the intelligence we need using satellites.. He wouldn't even allow the FBI and the CIA to share intelligence. That became known as Janet Reno's blue wall of silence. There was a military base in NJ that could have had F16's at the WTC in time to avert the attack on the south tower, but budget cuts shut it down. Instead, F16's flew down from Cape Cod, Mass. and were about 15 minutes too late. Clinton had many opportunities to get bin Laden but was worried there wasn't enough evidence to convict him in a criminal court. Clinton never got it that we were at war after the first WTC bombing and he never got it that we were at war after about 6 more attacks on the US, such as the bombing the two African embassies. While president, Clinton was always concerned about what historians will see as his legacy. That's easy: his legacy is lower Manhattan, the Pentagon, and Monica Lewinsky. Most people out side of the New York City vicinity that don't know iron workers, cops, and firemen aren't aware that when Bill Clinton showed up at ground zero he was booed for two reasons. 1) his eight years of failures involving what I already said. 2) a former president shouldn't have showed up at ground zero before a sitting president. Once a hillbilly always a hillbilly.
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mustangsally10:
Just received an email from David Plouffe, campaign manager for Barack Obama. There are now over 2,000,000 - 2 MILLON individual donors to Obamas campaign--WOO-HOO this is unprecedented in campaign history President Obama sponsored by THE PEOPLE
You got to give credit where credit is due. His fundraising over the internet has been a huge success.
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mustangsally10:
Just received an email from David Plouffe, campaign manager for Barack Obama. There are now over 2,000,000 - 2 MILLON individual donors to Obamas campaign--WOO-HOO this is unprecedented in campaign history President Obama sponsored by THE PEOPLE
Here is where McSames 2 million is coming from: EXXON JOHN