The ..2012.... Political thread
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mustangsally10:
And the endorsements begin...from The New Yorker entitled "The Choice" very thorough thoughtful article: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors compares Obama to Lincoln
Here is where the presidential race stands today...30 days from the election http://www.pollster.com/polls/2008president/
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jaipur:
I'd call it respecting and acknowledging their point of view...which McCain didn't bother to return. Debating isn't merely beating up your opponent or trying to outdo them verbally.....it's point, counterpoint....which is what Obama did, concede the point by agreeing with it, then counterpointing.
My criticism with this is that I think you're blurring the important distinction between respecting the person vs. respecting the idea. Both candidates should show civility and respect towards each other as people, but neither should be expected to respect or acknowledge ideas that they do not agree with or stand for. That isn't to say that they can't respect the person's right to have those opinions or that they don't have a tolerance for them (and let us not mix that up with acceptance), but that's very different. Also, it's a debate; by definition, they are not going to agree. Otherwise, it's not a debate. Yet what you seem to be inferring is that McCain should be throwing out pleasantries and showing respect and acknowledgment (which means he should admit the realization or validity) of something that, perhaps, he doesn't agree with. But even if he does: so what? Again, logically speaking, if Obama agrees with McCain on something, then McCain agrees with Obama. But obviously McCain doesn't agree with Obama, so either Obama is lying or he's not quite understanding McCain's position. In any event, as I said earlier, I fail to see why Obama should get brownie points for merely pointing out whatever agreement he feels he has with McCain and by you stating that a debate shouldn't be about verbal outdoings anyways, I fail to see our disagreement on this particular issue. But the main problem with this is you're arguing that debates are about point, counterpoint, and that Obama did that by conceding a point by agreeing with it, only to counterpoint. The problem with this is that, if you're saying that Obama is conceding a point by merely agreeing with it so he can make a counterpoint, you just painted Obama as a liar, not to mention confused and a flip flopper. In other words, it makes no sense for him to say that he agrees with something, only for him to proceed to counterpoint that. That would be insane. The point is: it's logically impossible to counterpoint something that you agree with. You can't agree and disagree with something at the same time. And if the person is only pretending to agree with it in the first place, then he is a liar. Perhaps some clarification is in order...
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Mikemc:
Matthew_Montoya:
{snip} I could pay a group of guys on my block right now and tell them: "Hey, I want you to read this sentence that I wrote suggesting that Barack Obama relieves tension and stage fright before giving a speech by having sex with a sheep."
hey hey, don't knock sex with a sheep until you tried it. It's not as b-a-a-a-d as you think.
Now that's change we can believe in.
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mustangsally10:
compares Obama to Lincoln
If Obama is comparable to Lincoln, then I'm comparable to Paul McCartney. By the way, great Republican President, that Lincoln.
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Matthew_Montoya:
mustangsally10:
compares Obama to Lincoln
If Obama is comparable to Lincoln, then I'm comparable to Paul McCartney. By the way, great Republican President, that Lincoln.
Here is where the polls stand today: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/
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Palin is a good communicator when she memorized the script. However she can't think and talk. I think I could of answered her live interview questions better than she did. What scares me is how puppets are so easily put into our political system for us to vote on. It also scares me how powerful the media is o make or break a career. Lincoln would of been so out of here. He wouldn't of got over the look department let alone the clothes and hair.
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Mikemc:
Matthew_Montoya:
{snip} I could pay a group of guys on my block right now and tell them: "Hey, I want you to read this sentence that I wrote suggesting that Barack Obama relieves tension and stage fright before giving a speech by having sex with a sheep."
hey hey, don't knock sex with a sheep until you tried it. It's not as b-a-a-a-d as you think.
Oh My God! Somebody get me a bucket, I think I am about to throw up! Now, I won't be able to erase this horrible image from my mind!
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What I find very sad is that fair and balanced journalism has died. Many of the media should be wearing Obama shirts or Donkey pins / Democrat buttons on their clothes. I would be okay with it if they identified themselves as such - but they do not. (Trying to pretend they are fair). They have given Barack Obama a "free pass to the White House." (Turning their eyes and ears away from anything other than their agenda to get Barack into the White House). It is his alone to lose -- since he is getting all the help from a majority of the media. McCain - sometimes appears to want to throw it away -- or mess up somehow. He wants so much to be the nice guy reaching over the aisle -- that he "politically punches" his own party and doesn't pound the opponent's bad ideas. (From a post above -- they should be comparing Barack Obama to Jimmy Carter -- if he wins -- I have a feeling they will bring back the misery index. Characteristically -- following the play book -- he will have 3 years to blame the previous administration --even if the policies are his.) I see TAXES skyrocketing -- unemployment going up -- a recession .... etc but the media will be happy they did their part well .... the only good in all this that I see is that the guy who played "Robert" in Everybody Loves Raymond will stay in the USA. Whew that was close. For a nano second I thought he might leave the country
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The_Fool:
What I find very sad is that fair and balanced journalism has died. Many of the media should be wearing Obama shirts or Donkey pins / Democrat buttons on their clothes. I would be okay with it if they identified themselves as such - but they do not. (Trying to pretend they are fair). They have given Barack Obama a "free pass to the White House." (Turning their eyes and ears away from anything other than their agenda to get Barack into the White House). It is his alone to lose -- since he is getting all the help from a majority of the media. McCain - sometimes appears to want to throw it away -- or mess up somehow. He wants so much to be the nice guy reaching over the aisle -- that he "politically punches" his own party and doesn't pound the opponent's bad ideas. (From a post above -- they should be comparing Barack Obama to Jimmy Carter -- if he wins -- I have a feeling they will bring back the misery index. Characteristically -- following the play book -- he will have 3 years to blame the previous administration --even if the policies are his.) I see TAXES skyrocketing -- unemployment going up -- a recession .... etc but the media will be happy they did their part well .... the only good in all this that I see is that the guy who played "Robert" in Everybody Loves Raymond will stay in the USA. Whew that was close. For a nano second I thought he might leave the country
I agree - but I've never got into the Everybody Loves Raymond program. When economic times are tough, the last thing that is needed is: A Bigger Government, Higher Taxes (for anyone including the rich or companies since they will raise prices in reaction leading to inflation (Obama caused ). The only thing "evil" about some companies is the outlandish salries and/or payouts to CEO's etc. - when the employess should instead be paid more & the companies not taxed more to allow greater salaries to the employees. I don't see a brighter future at all in a Obama world
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That Robert of Everybody Loves Raymond should have gone in the funny political threads Very similar to Alec Baldwin threatening to leave if George Bush won. Did he leave the country yet? (Alec Baldwin that is...) Can you imagine someone changing their vote --- so that Robert stays in the USA?
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appletart2:
Palin is a good communicator when she memorized the script. However she can't think and talk. I think I could of answered her live interview questions better than she did.
The same could be said, and has been said, about Obama, (or as some call him: "Uh-bama") when he's not in front of a teleprompter. But, in regards to Palin, I disagree with this assertion. When she gave probably her best speech yet, at the RNC, it was without a prompter.
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Agreed again - however, I find myself strangely in agreement with a little bit of what Alec Baldwin said 2 minutes into this youtube clip: He blamed the following for the current ecomomic crisis: Democrats Bill Clinton and Barney Franks I think this is a first - I actually agree with an Alec Baldwin soundclip
don't bother watching it all - you just might start feeling sick -
...... and another thing -- it is not a dictatorship as far as I know -- they all seem to be blaming Bush for everything -- when they - Democrats and Republicans (House and Senate) are a very strong part of the problems .... I sure am grumbly today
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Yes, agreed However the heads of Fanny Mae & Freddy Mac were Democrats Those were places where former government employees went for a reward for their faithful service. And those lying skunks (on their corporations income statements) reported ficticious incomes and are threrfore personally responsible for life savings lost by investors & by millions/billions around the world And Barney Frank sought to stop investigations several times of Fanny Mae - he succeeded, and now all this :
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Where's MikeMc
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Andy_Shofar:
Where's MikeMc
Well, if his last post on here is an indicator of where he's at, I don't want to know! j/k!
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I think we should have a bipartisan election this year and elect Obama as the president and Palin as the vice president
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SurSteven:
I think we should have a bipartisan election this year and elect Obama as the president and Palin as the vice president
May I ask the reason for this? Or, more importantly, the goal? Just so they could say: "Look at us! We're bipartisan! Aren't we awesome?" Perhaps I'm wrong, but this seems to imply that bipartisanship is always a good thing. In some cases it surely is and compromises can be good and effective; but definitely not always and certainly not at the expense of right and wrong.
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mustangsally10:
Matthew_Montoya:
mustangsally10:
compares Obama to Lincoln
If Obama is comparable to Lincoln, then I'm comparable to Paul McCartney. By the way, great Republican President, that Lincoln.
Here is where the polls stand today: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/
O.K. I'm confused as to whether you're showing me the polls as a response to me to prove a point or whether it's just to update everyone for the advancement of the thread. If the former, then it's rather futile, as popularity does not equal truth. But, if indeed it does equal truth, then Obama supporters (or, at the very least, people who are anti-Bush) must have quite a conundrum with how people voted the 2004 election and it's results. However, if the latter, then nevermind!
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If you don't mind spending time becoming informed here is the latest cover story from Rolling Stone: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain Thorough and well researched. McSame is being vetted finally. Article also includes vid :"The Five Myths of McCain" Enjoy