The ..2012.... Political thread
-
but where is it better. With all the protest around the world. Seems like those few 1% have got the strangle hold on every nation. When you find utopia let me know. Until the media is broken up into bite size pieces...(Cenk Uygur, young turks forced to resign on MSNBC) We never going to get the facts. Also bank reform. They control the whole ball of wax. Also learning from history. No one seems to want to remember the past. We seen this same banking crisis back in the 80's and yet they still allowed for zero down loans and adjustable. The same programs that got people into trouble before. No one should be getting a loans if they can't pay it back or if the equity isn't enough if they fail, so the it can be sold off to recover the loan. This time though the same guys handing out these loans were betting against these loans and profiting when they failed. What frustration now is the banks are dilibertyly holding on to money and actually forcing this economy to stall. I always used the equity in my house to buy other properties. Today it strictly income only loans. Equity and I mean real equity based on the low ball appraisal we seeing now, is income to those who buy and sell real estate. How do you think Trump operates or any developer. You invest in real estate for appreciation. There still plenty of buyers they just can't get loans. Common senses is just gone today in banking. Its a rigged game.
-
Altanon:
21st Century Paul:
well, according the american dream theory... are those kids hungry because they want it? or is it only the parents have no food for them because they want it?
You know what George Carlin said about the "American Dream," don't you? You have to be asleep to fuçking believe it!
I think I saw the video once
-
appletart2:
but where is it better. With all the protest around the world. Seems like those few 1% have got the strangle hold on every nation. When you find utopia let me know. Until the media is broken up into bite size pieces...(Cenk Uygur, young turks forced to resign on MSNBC) We never going to get the facts. Also bank reform. They control the whole ball of wax. Also learning from history. No one seems to want to remember the past. We seen this same banking crisis back in the 80's and yet they still allowed for zero down loans and adjustable. The same programs that got people into trouble before. No one should be getting a loans if they can't pay it back or if the equity isn't enough if they fail, so the it can be sold off to recover the loan. This time though the same guys handing out these loans were betting against these loans and profiting when they failed. What frustration now is the banks are dilibertyly holding on to money and actually forcing this economy to stall. I always used the equity in my house to buy other properties. Today it strictly income only loans. Equity and I mean real equity based on the low ball appraisal we seeing now, is income to those who buy and sell real estate. How do you think Trump operates or any developer. You invest in real estate for appreciation. There still plenty of buyers they just can't get loans. Common senses is just gone today in banking. Its a rigged game.
i'm not a fan of big media... but no need for them to change to know what's going on, just look at any history of economics book or at the ABC of economics. We just (the global economy) had to arrive to this point one day. Just like we arrived some day to the point mankind discovered and used nuclear weapons (so world wars are no longer "an option"). So we are in the point where loans ("debt" really) can no longer cause the demand to grow and grow to keep with the productivity growth (to keep employement rate stable) cause the ones with debts (nations, companies, people) can hardly pay the interest of their debts. Dead end, end of the story. Just like one day the world will run of petrol and won't be able to continue depending on it too. Not tomorrow I know, for the petrol thing, but the financial thing is here. It's like "Don't worry, that won't happen until... 2011 or so... Doh, this is already 2011"
-
21st Century Paul:
i'm not a fan of big media... but no need for them to change to know what's going on, just look at any history of economics book or at the ABC of economics. We just (the global economy) had to arrive to this point one day...
Yep. From the day The government surrendered ownership and control of our Nation's Money supply to Private Bankers, we were doomed, and it was ordained that the day would come when those Bankers would be able to control the Economy at their whim. That day is here.
-
Altanon:
21st Century Paul:
i'm not a fan of big media... but no need for them to change to know what's going on, just look at any history of economics book or at the ABC of economics. We just (the global economy) had to arrive to this point one day...
Yep. From the day The government surrendered ownership and control of our Nation's Money supply to Private Bankers, we were doomed, and it was ordained that the day would come when those Bankers would be able to control the Economy at their whim. That day is here.
and so the economy is virtually on collapse because the insane debt on major institutions (banks themselves too)... Those private bankers are running things into huge debt so much that bankrupcy spreads (from the "small ones" to the "big ones"). Like one piece falling after another. (Pretty normal cause their profits come from spreading debt and their goal is "maximum profit") So they're not gonna control it for a long time really... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... wake me up when the thing is over "all your struggles are in vain" We're just waiting for the hammer to fall
-
anyway... it's hardly commented like "buried deep inside a thousand layers lies the answer to it all" besides the political talk, the core of the problem is: productivity (technology) ever-increasing so less people (workers) needed to supply the same amounts of goods and services demanded (GDP) less workers so less demand so even less workers needed, etc And the trick of using debt to increase demand so GDP increases and so number of workers stays similar no longer works. "The end of the work" as that old classic book, Jeremy Rifkin. It's technology... it ends the work. (no surprise cause it's designed and created to avoid work) That's the melody... IMO, now one can different arrangements, chords progressions but that's what you whistle. And i've already talked too much. 2:
-
Altanon:
21st Century Paul:
well, according the american dream theory... are those kids hungry because they want it? or is it only the parents have no food for them because they want it?
You know what George Carlin said about the "American Dream," don't you? You have to be asleep to fuçking believe it!
Genius!
-
rich n:
audi:
rich n:
appletart2:
I people general are becoming way to dependent on government handout. If people could not get food stamps guess how fast they be sweeping floors.
But isn't free handouts the basis to liberal philosophy?
My God -- if that's what conservatives actually think, NO WONDER there's such a disconnect. To answer your question: No. But it is decent and humane to ensure that all children have quality education. It is decent for sick Americans to not have to arm-wrestle greedy insurance companies. If we want to compete globally, we must invest in higher education. And if you wanna talk hand-outs, corporate welfare is what's the bigger issue. I am willing to pay taxes because we'd have no defense or education system without them.
I think any decent human being (regardless of party affiliation) would want to ensure no one is starving and that they have a roof over their head...and on a down note, I've many folks from both sides of the isle say 'eff the homeless'. From my view, the difference is that liberals will 'give first' and ask questions later. I believe that the effort to put these people back in a state of self sufficiency should be more urgent than (as an example) passively mentioning as an aside that if they'd like, there are free educational benefits they can take advantage of...some people are truly down on their luck, but others just need a major (proverbial ) kick in the balls... And to make an analogy, if you ever heard the expression 'give a man a fish, feed him for a day - teach a man to fish, feed him for a life time'...I believe Liberals basically adhere to the former part of that expression while conservatives adhere to the latter
We're on the same page, for the most part. I've always loved the fishing parable. Switching gears: I'm not so crazy about the Dream Act that just got signed into law in California.
-
In the "Give a Fish/Teach to Fish" analogy: in our current situation, you may or may not be able to purchase the knowledge of how to fish, but it won't matter because all the lakes, rivers, streams and ponds have been bought and fenced off. Therefore you have no choice but to beg for your daily fish.
-
New polls confirm Obama's Democratic base crumbles July 26, 2011 - 3:04am With all of the spotlights on the high-stakes debt maneuverings by President Obama and Speaker John Boehner the last few days, few people noticed what Vermont's Sen. Bernie Sanders said: "I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/obama-poll-jobs-democratic-base-crumbling.html
-
SurSteven:
I think that Warren Buffet did his very best to explain the dilemma, but the people who should have listened, are not listening. We have allowed the super rich to become so very rich, that they have no interest or desire to invest in anyone's works. It would be nice if working people had more money to invest in other people's works. Isn't it the collective work and buying power of working people that makes for a thriving economy? http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/71836,business,tax-the-rich-says-billionaire-warren-buffett-
What He Said!
-
SurSteven:
SurSteven:
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/71836,business,tax-the-rich-says-billionaire-warren-buffett-
What He Said!
When the heat goes up, switch the topic ... What Buffett said was intesting in November last year - it's not helping the President and/or his base now Thank me very much
-
Andy_Shofar:
SurSteven:
SurSteven:
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/71836,business,tax-the-rich-says-billionaire-warren-buffett-
What He Said!
When the heat goes up, switch the topic ... What Buffett said was intesting in November last year - it's not helping the President and/or his base now Thank me very much
Switch what topic?
-
audi:
rich n:
audi:
rich n:
appletart2:
I people general are becoming way to dependent on government handout. If people could not get food stamps guess how fast they be sweeping floors.
But isn't free handouts the basis to liberal philosophy?
My God -- if that's what conservatives actually think, NO WONDER there's such a disconnect. To answer your question: No. But it is decent and humane to ensure that all children have quality education. It is decent for sick Americans to not have to arm-wrestle greedy insurance companies. If we want to compete globally, we must invest in higher education. And if you wanna talk hand-outs, corporate welfare is what's the bigger issue. I am willing to pay taxes because we'd have no defense or education system without them.
I think any decent human being (regardless of party affiliation) would want to ensure no one is starving and that they have a roof over their head...and on a down note, I've many folks from both sides of the isle say 'eff the homeless'. From my view, the difference is that liberals will 'give first' and ask questions later. I believe that the effort to put these people back in a state of self sufficiency should be more urgent than (as an example) passively mentioning as an aside that if they'd like, there are free educational benefits they can take advantage of...some people are truly down on their luck, but others just need a major (proverbial ) kick in the balls... And to make an analogy, if you ever heard the expression 'give a man a fish, feed him for a day - teach a man to fish, feed him for a life time'...I believe Liberals basically adhere to the former part of that expression while conservatives adhere to the latter
We're on the same page, for the most part. I've always loved the fishing parable. .
my point is more like "teach lots of men to fish, and the fish on the ocean will dissappear"
-
Altanon:
In the "Give a Fish/Teach to Fish" analogy: in our current situation, you may or may not be able to purchase the knowledge of how to fish, but it won't matter because all the lakes, rivers, streams and ponds have been bought and fenced off. Therefore you have no choice but to beg for your daily fish.
I should have read this post before posting mine. Now I'm redundant.
-
maybe we are worrying bout nothing... If the dems and the reps don't come to an agreement before 6 days... Is there any USA institution (The president?) that can raise the debt limit?
-
21st Century Paul:
Altanon:
In the "Give a Fish/Teach to Fish" analogy: in our current situation, you may or may not be able to purchase the knowledge of how to fish, but it won't matter because all the lakes, rivers, streams and ponds have been bought and fenced off. Therefore you have no choice but to beg for your daily fish.
I should have read this post before posting mine. Now I'm redundant.
That's perfectly okay; it bears repeating.
-
Altanon:
21st Century Paul:
Altanon:
In the "Give a Fish/Teach to Fish" analogy: in our current situation, you may or may not be able to purchase the knowledge of how to fish, but it won't matter because all the lakes, rivers, streams and ponds have been bought and fenced off. Therefore you have no choice but to beg for your daily fish.
I should have read this post before posting mine. Now I'm redundant.
That's perfectly okay; it bears repeating.
yes, the point is not exactly the same Also, if men learn a lot how to fish (through technology, modern fishing techniques) , then not many men are required to fish all the fishes that can be eaten. I prefer penguin parables, I don't know why. What about if you're very good at fishing but nobody buys your fishes because you can't compete against the marketing of the big fishing companies?
-
We all know your penchant for Penguins.
-
Andy_Shofar:
New polls confirm Obama's Democratic base crumbles July 26, 2011 - 3:04am With all of the spotlights on the high-stakes debt maneuverings by President Obama and Speaker John Boehner the last few days, few people noticed what Vermont's Sen. Bernie Sanders said: "I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition." http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/obama-poll-jobs-democratic-base-crumbling.html
Very simple explanation: He's catering to your team waaaaaaay too much. He is not the liberal we thought he was: He's a center Republican. Nonetheless, he's the best we got right now. As soon as he learns to embrace our issues, the liberal base will be energized. Then again, with all the anti-union efforts of Republicans, a LOT of states will be blue again, come November 2012.