The 2012 and beyond Political Thread - Part 2
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hey, I'm not a Romney supporter.... Audi asked for a challenge. "ask and you will be given" you say... As it was coming from me was more like singing Bohemian Rhapsody instead of singing Yellow Submarine.
I remember our "anyone but Bush" campaign here 8 years ago, totally useless... we told you! Now the bubble is different than that but no so different. USA's deficit is going to stop being financed by the rest of countries. The endebtment will cause lots of problems. The situation on Europe will spread to the USA, as big corporations depend on Europe as much as on the USA. Then there's the inequality. Still I don't see Romney or Obama talking about that at all, so know it would be more like "Anyone but Obama and Romney...". I don't see anyone facing the problems, actually not everyone even talking about the real problems, so it's just a popularity contest that will result is delusion no matter the winner... It's minor talk, like "overseas jobs", that's been happening since Ford created a factory in Belgium in the 1920s... yes, that happens naturally, but the big ball of troubles is not that. There is "bigger fish to fry". The campaign will be interesting to me if some candidates (even the other besides the 2 same old parties) talk bout the really big problems, even if just as a "we'll promise to fix that" only. This is like having cancer and worrying bout a head ache.
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Oliver, US will go the same route as Europe only if mittens is elected because he will use the same austerity practices that brought Europe to it's knees, The Obama Administration has been using growth policies as much as possible (Keysian) but dealing with republican obstruction so couldn't do as much as needed. We have slow growth but it is still growth and when big tax cuts for the rich are ended there will we more money for stimulus (job creation) for direly needed infrastructure and green jobs etc and that increases the tax base. We will be fine as long as Obama is reelected. If mittens would win say hello to depression...the republicans/conservatives have never had a successful economy in US. So the important thing is the election and there is a huge difference between the candidates. In fact, the republicans in congress have been sabotaging the economic recovery so as to hurt Obama. That is the situation in the US...different than EU.
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Some good news
Rupert Murdoch is OUT of all boards in UK...Scandal is coming to US..DOJ has been interviewing in UK...MUrdoch just moved Faux news to entertainment division
we knew that all along....It's going down fast...going down fast
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mustangsally10:
Oliver, US will go the same route as Europe only if mittens is elected because he will use the same austerity practices that brought Europe to it's knees, The Obama Administration has been using growth policies as much as possible (Keysian) but dealing with republican obstruction so couldn't do as much as needed. We have slow growth but it is still growth and when big tax cuts for the rich are ended there will we more money for stimulus (job creation) for direly needed infrastructure and green jobs etc and that increases the tax base. We will be fine as long as Obama is reelected. If mittens would win say hello to depression...the republicans/conservatives have never had a successful economy in US. So the important thing is the election and there is a huge difference between the candidates. In fact, the republicans in congress have been sabotaging the economic recovery so as to hurt Obama. That is the situation in the US...different than EU.
It's just the same situation only the USA doesn't pay much (yet) for getting more and more endebted, like Germany, for instance. So they go "Keynesian". But what Keynes did worked then, when governments had virtually no debt (now the USA has 14 Trillion). Keynes was a genius (that also went beyond the dominant thinking of then) but that is not going to work again, it's like doing like Elvis did in the 50s to make better rock and roll now. Stiglitz is the Keynes of today. George Soros is the Henry Ford of today. But Obama is not the Roosevelt of today, at least for he has done, he with the senators. I don't think any US party is sabotaging the US economy (at least, consciously), they use to go hand in hand... one plays the bad cop and the other plays the good cop. I didn't believe Soros when he said "The raising of the deficit limit is only a fake, Democrats and Republicans agree to raise it, only they will make it in the last possible moment to fake disagreement" But they did, an hour before the limit.... Again, does Obama even mention what I call the "big problems"?, he could do it no matter the "voting sabotage" of Republicans, but they're hidden just like other bubble was hidden during the Bush years. History repeated. So it seems "everything is allright".
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mustangsally10:
Some good news
Rupert Murdoch is OUT of all boards in UK...Scandal is coming to US..DOJ has been interviewing in UK...MUrdoch just moved Faux news to entertainment division
we knew that all along....It's going down fast...going down fast
That mass media is a very important part of neoliberalism/"market fundamentalism" and Murdock has been the most relevant figure of that.
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21st Century Paul:
mustangsally10:
Some good news
Rupert Murdoch is OUT of all boards in UK...Scandal is coming to US..DOJ has been interviewing in UK...MUrdoch just moved Faux news to entertainment division
we knew that all along....It's going down fast...going down fast
That mass media is a very important part of neoliberalism/"market fundamentalism" and Murdock has been the most relevant figure of that.
Exactly, that's why it's such good news
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21st Century Paul:
mustangsally10:
Oliver, US will go the same route as Europe only if mittens is elected because he will use the same austerity practices that brought Europe to it's knees, The Obama Administration has been using growth policies as much as possible (Keysian) but dealing with republican obstruction so couldn't do as much as needed. We have slow growth but it is still growth and when big tax cuts for the rich are ended there will we more money for stimulus (job creation) for direly needed infrastructure and green jobs etc and that increases the tax base. We will be fine as long as Obama is reelected. If mittens would win say hello to depression...the republicans/conservatives have never had a successful economy in US. So the important thing is the election and there is a huge difference between the candidates. In fact, the republicans in congress have been sabotaging the economic recovery so as to hurt Obama. That is the situation in the US...different than EU.
It's just the same situation only the USA doesn't pay much (yet) for getting more and more endebted, like Germany, for instance. So they go "Keynesian". But what Keynes did worked then, when governments had virtually no debt (now the USA has 14 Trillion). Keynes was a genius (that also went beyond the dominant thinking of then) but that is not going to work again, it's like doing like Elvis did in the 50s to make better rock and roll now. Stiglitz is the Keynes of today. George Soros is the Henry Ford of today. But Obama is not the Roosevelt of today, at least for he has done, he with the senators. I don't think any US party is sabotaging the US economy (at least, consciously), they use to go hand in hand... one plays the bad cop and the other plays the good cop. I didn't believe Soros when he said "The raising of the deficit limit is only a fake, Democrats and Republicans agree to raise it, only they will make it in the last possible moment to fake disagreement" But they did, an hour before the limit.... Again, does Obama even mention what I call the "big problems"?, he could do it no matter the "voting sabotage" of Republicans, but they're hidden just like other bubble was hidden during the Bush years. History repeated. So it seems "everything is allright".
Reducing the deficit can only occur when the economy is sufficiently recovered with better employment and purchasing to produce more taxes. And when a fairer tax system is implemented. As far as sabotaging one can only use historical data. The republicans/conservatives have never produced a successful economy for the US (maybe they have helped other countries with their outsourcing of jobs
) I have shown this many times on this thread by using the stats for job producing, gdp, deficits etc. under US presidents for the last 60+ years. SO they see the data as well as we do..yet they still advocate for the same policies that have seen massive failure
So EVIL OR STUPID or maybe both..you decide. Here are the links again: Economy does better under the democrats http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-25/democratic-presidents-are-better-for-the-economy.html More private jobs gained under the Democrats http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-08/private-jobs-increase-more-with-democrats-in-white-house.html Stock market does better under Democrats http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-22/stocks-return-more-with-dem-in-white-house-bgov-barometer.html Text book economics is one thing. Implementing workable solutions with politics is another. You have to win elections before you can implement policies. That is why Obama takes the stances he does.
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mustangsally10:
21st Century Paul:
mustangsally10:
Oliver, US will go the same route as Europe only if mittens is elected because he will use the same austerity practices that brought Europe to it's knees, The Obama Administration has been using growth policies as much as possible (Keysian) but dealing with republican obstruction so couldn't do as much as needed. We have slow growth but it is still growth and when big tax cuts for the rich are ended there will we more money for stimulus (job creation) for direly needed infrastructure and green jobs etc and that increases the tax base. We will be fine as long as Obama is reelected. If mittens would win say hello to depression...the republicans/conservatives have never had a successful economy in US. So the important thing is the election and there is a huge difference between the candidates. In fact, the republicans in congress have been sabotaging the economic recovery so as to hurt Obama. That is the situation in the US...different than EU.
It's just the same situation only the USA doesn't pay much (yet) for getting more and more endebted, like Germany, for instance. So they go "Keynesian". But what Keynes did worked then, when governments had virtually no debt (now the USA has 14 Trillion). Keynes was a genius (that also went beyond the dominant thinking of then) but that is not going to work again, it's like doing like Elvis did in the 50s to make better rock and roll now. Stiglitz is the Keynes of today. George Soros is the Henry Ford of today. But Obama is not the Roosevelt of today, at least for he has done, he with the senators. I don't think any US party is sabotaging the US economy (at least, consciously), they use to go hand in hand... one plays the bad cop and the other plays the good cop. I didn't believe Soros when he said "The raising of the deficit limit is only a fake, Democrats and Republicans agree to raise it, only they will make it in the last possible moment to fake disagreement" But they did, an hour before the limit.... Again, does Obama even mention what I call the "big problems"?, he could do it no matter the "voting sabotage" of Republicans, but they're hidden just like other bubble was hidden during the Bush years. History repeated. So it seems "everything is allright".
Reducing the deficit can only occur when [list=]the economy is sufficiently recovered with better employment and purchasing to produce more taxes[/list]. And when a fairer tax system is implemented. As far as sabotaging one can only use historical data....
But "the economy is sufficiently recovered with better employment and purchasing to produce more taxes" can only happen "when a fairer tax system is implemented" It's the other way round. "Stimulus" is a bit like using drugs, a cheat, it could seem good in short-term but it's bad in the long-term. And our economies are drugged to their eyes. About the Reps (most of)... well... they have always been that, traditionalist... they would like to go back and back till who knows when cause they think that's better, "the good old days" About the Dems (most of), they see it like was a science, about facts, A causes B but don't think about what B can cause or what has caused A. They miss the big picture. They don't focus of what's going with all the people really, so you've got 99% getting poorer for the last 30 years. With Dems or with Reps. It's not an exact science, economics is a social science, about people, not numbers. Any economics analysis that doesn't talk about people is not economics really but mathematics. It's all about ethics, morals, responsability, justice, etc... thought I know it seems like a joke saying this but it's true. I'm sure Soros or Stiglitz explain in it better than me. Stiglitz does in that link talking particulary bout the USA now. Roosevelt got it, for instance. The USA got out of the great depression and he was elected 4 times. Lincoln... in another way got it too. He realized that slavery was room... no matter the "maths" behind it. Not like... "well, but a slave is cheaper than a worker, we're gonna fuck our economy if we abolish slavery" (science/maths talking) And not like "well, black are not even people but objects, they had always been our slaves, it's always been like that" (tradition talking) And Lincoln was a Rep. The slavery and the inequality problem are not so different... As Paul's Meat Free Monday campaign says "Politicians don't lead, they follow"... after enough people thinks in a different way, they'll change too.
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Yes, Stiglitz does explain it well...and I agree http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stiglitz-inequality-20120722,0,4061042.story
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All that money that Reagan & Thatcher said was supposed to TRICKLE DOWN
when taxes were cut for the wealthy ...well we finally found out where it went
It went offshore
It sure didn't do the economy any good
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens Between 21 & 32 TRILLION offshore
mittens money is there too
taxes for you but not for him
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mustangsally10:
All that money that Reagan & Thatcher said was supposed to TRICKLE DOWN
when taxes were cut for the wealthy ...well we finally found out where it went
It went offshore
It sure didn't do the economy any good
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens Between 21 & 32 TRILLION offshore
mittens money is there too
taxes for you but not for him
Staggering beyond belief.
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Have you heard the latest in the Mitt Romney tax return situation? In '94, Romney demanded that Ted Kennedy release his tax returns: "With the tax-filing deadline looming, Republican Senate candidate Mitt Romney yesterday challenged Sen. Edward M. Kennedy to disclose his state and federal taxes to prove he has ?nothing to hide,? but another GOP rival, John R. Lakian, called Romney?s move ?bush league? ?It?s time the biggest-taxing senator in Washington shows the people of Massachusetts how much he pays in taxes,? said Romney, a business consultant from Belmont. Romney said he would disclose his own state and federal taxes for the last three years ?on the very day that Kennedy turns over his taxes for public scrutiny.? [Boston Globe, 4/19/94]"
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I'll ask again of my conservative firends: Why should I vote for Mitt Romney? How would a Romney presidency benefit me?
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audi:
Have you heard the latest in the Mitt Romney tax return situation? In '94, Romney demanded that Ted Kennedy release his tax returns: "With the tax-filing deadline looming, Republican Senate candidate Mitt Romney yesterday challenged Sen. Edward M. Kennedy to disclose his state and federal taxes to prove he has ?nothing to hide,? but another GOP rival, John R. Lakian, called Romney?s move ?bush league? ?It?s time the biggest-taxing senator in Washington shows the people of Massachusetts how much he pays in taxes,? said Romney, a business consultant from Belmont. Romney said he would disclose his own state and federal taxes for the last three years ?on the very day that Kennedy turns over his taxes for public scrutiny.? [Boston Globe, 4/19/94]"
Amazing
For once I'm in agreement..He's Hiding Somethinghe thinks the rules don't apply to him.. Even republicans are calling for him to release his tax returns
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mustangsally10:
Yes, Stiglitz does explain it well...and I agree http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stiglitz-inequality-20120722,0,4061042.story
yes, that's it. It's that simple... and that complicated.
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mustangsally10:
All that money that Reagan & Thatcher said was supposed to TRICKLE DOWN
when taxes were cut for the wealthy ...well we finally found out where it went
It went offshore
It sure didn't do the economy any good
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens Between 21 & 32 TRILLION offshore
mittens money is there too
taxes for you but not for him
In Spain we say "Time tells who is right". Maybe we have needed 30 years but now is plain to see that reducing tax for the rich harms the economy a lot. It happened too in the 20s... then the Great Depression. The New Deal and all that was not charity, was a way to allow capitalism survive. As audi says "those who don't know their history..."
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I just don't see how mittens can be the repub. nominee. I don't see how the repub. party can deal with his tax evasiveness. It's serious, there may be an illegality in there or else why won't he release them
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: I think if he continues to evade he will not be nominated. It's just too risky
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People are already whispering "brokered convention."
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A little red meat for the conservatives. Although this poll has Obama ahead of Romney 46%-45%, I am baffled by this: Poll: Romney preferred over Obama to handle the economy: "WASHINGTON ? Despite concerted Democratic attacks on his business record, Republican challenger Mitt Romney scores a significant advantage over President Obama when it comes to managing the economy, reducing the federal budget deficit and creating jobs, a national USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds. ...Sponsored LinksBy more than 2-1, 63%-29%, those surveyed say Romney's background in business, including his tenure at the private equity firm Bain Capital, would cause him to make good decisions, not bad ones, in dealing with the nation's economic problems over the next four years." http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-07-23/poll-romney-obama-economy/56439758/1 A Romney presidency will make the crash of 2008 look like a convenience fee at the airport. Romney is a snake. His agenda will all but finish the middle class.
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Mittens flunked his first diplomatic assignment before he even leaves the country
Australian foreign minister is insulted and has denied that he made the remarks that mittens said he did
Do you think mittens knows when to stop lying
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: Perhaps not ..what a debacle
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/14345544/bob-carr-denies-romney-diplomatic-gaffe/