The 2012 and beyond Political Thread - Part 2
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SIGN THIS PETITION BEFORE DECEMBER 19TH (THE OFFICIAL ELECTORAL VOTE COUNTING)...TO SAVE US FROM THE LEAST QUALIFIED PERSON TO EVER RUN FOR THE OFFICE OF...PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (If You Want To Protect The Rights And Freedoms Of ALL Americans...And ALL People)
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...Donald and Melania are starting to sue people over things they don't like, or don't agree with. Melania is suing either Rosie O'Donnnell and or the person who has made the you tube about the possibility of Baron Trump having a form of autism. I've already noticed the effect that this is having on how things are being reported. This is a serious violation of the freedom of speech. His own people are warning Americans to be careful of what you say, don't make fun of Donald, not to publish unflattering photos etc. I find it very puzzling, for someone, whose very short political career, has been based on name calling, outright lies, bullying and fudging the facts and basically all the things Donald doesn't want to be done to him. . I'm wondering how much of his money has been garnered from lawsuits, against people who disagree with him!! Taking away freedom of speech in this country, is one of the things that made it great. I don't think lawsuits to control people, is MAKING AMERICA GREAT ?!?!
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HaileyMcComet:
Andy_Shofar [quote="Andy_Shofar:
<size=extra large, super important> These numbers should SHUT UP liberals about the Electoral College once and for all
Why would it? I understand why the Republican Party wants its minions to twist themselves into knots trying to defend the electoral college. That's pretty obvious. But why would anyone else think presidents should be chosen by acreage over votes? Why would anyone else think that people who live in larger cities should have less voice than people who live in rural areas? Outside of the Republican Party, shouldn't my vote count as much as yours even if there isn't as much distance between my neighbors?
It appears that you have answered your own question, if the 'Popular Vote' were to determine the outcome of all elections - the most populated cities alone would determine the elections outcome. Everyone else would have no incentive to vote. The Electoral College evens the mix as best as possible. I'm not an expert on the topic ... please consult other websites for the detail.
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When the electoral college was first initiated, there were much much greater rural areas than there are today. The electoral votes were skewed to try and even out the difference. They are still skewed to the rural vote, hence this, and other elections, in which the electoral vote was not that of the popular majority of the voters. In essence the rural voters out weight the urban voters votes. In my opinion, we should go to a popular vote system. News is disseminated to everyone in the US, through television, computers, smart phones. We all get the news at the same time. We no longer need to wait for news to arrive by Pony Express or the train to Petticoat Junction. We've put a man on the moon and in the International Space Station, and they are even getting day to day news...with a small delay. There is no need for an electoral college!!
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SurSteven:
Bruce M.:
SurSteven:
However One Voted In The Election, I Am Sure That EVERYONE Should Agree That ALL AMERICANS DESERVE COMPLETELY FAIR ELECTIONS!!!. Based On This...Did Anyone Notice That The Trump Campaign Ads Declaring That Hillary Was Under Investigation Were Still Running On Television For 3 Days After And Through The Election? AFTER, FBI Director Comey exonerated Hillary??? Totally And Completely UnAmerican. Once Again...There Was NO Conservative Rightwing Candidate To Take Votes Away From Trump. In The Interest Of COMPLETE ELECTION FAIRNESS...Leftwing Gary Johnson's & Jill Stein's Votes Should Go To Hillary And The Electoral Votes Should Be Re-examined as well. IF, We Want To Have...AN ABSOLUTELY FAIR AMERICAN ELECTION. We Shall See How Fair The American People Want The Election To Be.
Well, that's not the system we have, so a little thing called the Constitution would get in the way. Personally, I favor instant-runoff (aka ranked-choice) voting, so people could vote for a third party candidate without being a "spoiler," and could still pick a lesser-of-evils second choice if they want. We have that in San Francisco, and it works. As for Gary Johnson being "left-wing," he proposed cutting the federal budget by 43% (i.e. more than ALL discretionary spending), completely eliminating the corporate income tax, using taxpayer money via vouchers to support religious schools, and opposes any federal efforts to combat climate change or promote clean energy. If anyone thinks that's left-wing, I have a bridge to sell you.
"Lib?er?al. 1.open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values: "they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people" 2.(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge" So, Johnson has a more Conservative agenda? Or, is he just confused? His Liberal views are what got him his votes. No, the Constitution does not get in the way concerning anyone pursuing an election recount. It is a 1st Amendment Right... The Right To Petition For A Redress Of Grievances "The right to petition government for redress of grievances is the right to make a complaint to, or seek the assistance of, one's government, without fear of punishment or reprisals." ~ Bill Of Rights As for the bridge you're trying to sell. You wouldn't have it, if you hadn't bought it yourself. Correct?
Your definition of liberal (different than any online dictionary I could find, but whatever) is in no way remotely a description of Gary Johnson, and in any case, your original post called him "leftwing," which is a hilarious misstatement. Johnson is a hardcore libertarian. Do you know that that is? I used to work with a bunch of libertarians, and in that context actually worked with Gary Johnson on a newspaper op-ed column about 10-11 years ago. Libertarians want to dismantle nearly the entire federal government, including nearly all regulation of business, and all social welfare programs. Whatever you think of that philosophy (I think it's nuts), it's not remotely "left wing" or "liberal" as the term is commonly used in U.S. political discourse. And pursuing a recount (which Jill Stein is doing in a couple states) has nothing to do with how the electoral college votes if those recounts don't change the state results. BUT there is also nothing in the constitution that requires electors to follow the voters' choice in their state. Whether 38 will have the courage to do that is an open question and seems unlikely, but with a couple more weeks of Trump derangement, anything could be possible.
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My definition of liberal came from an online dictionary. (Oxford Dictionaries) People who know the definition of the term 'liberal' understand. I grew up in an American political atmosphere that was quoted in a famous encyclopedia as being, "A paradoxical amalgam of free thinking liberalism and close to the vest conservatism." I know exactly and precisely what a liberal is, and am blood relative to a 19th century Republican American President through my Mother's Mother. You might try studying and searching word roots in a collegiate dictionary. I did this in junior high school at home with a Merriam Webster. https://www.merriam-webster.com/
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However One Voted In The Election, I Am Sure That EVERYONE Should Agree That ALL AMERICANS DESERVE COMPLETELY FAIR ELECTIONS!!!. Based On This...Did Anyone Notice That The Trump Campaign Ads Declaring That Hillary Was Under Investigation Were Still Running On Television For 3 Days After And Through The Election? AFTER, FBI Director Comey exonerated Hillary??? Totally And Completely UnAmerican. Once Again...There Was NO Conservative Rightwing Candidate To Take Votes Away From Trump. In The Interest Of COMPLETE ELECTION FAIRNESS...Leftwing Gary Johnson's & Jill Stein's Votes Should Go To Hillary And The Electoral Votes Should Be Re-examined as well. IF, We Want To Have...AN ABSOLUTELY FAIR AMERICAN ELECTION. We Shall See How Fair The American People Want The Election To Be. Alcohol is the favorite drug of the redneck rightwing political base. Marijuana is akin to liberal and leftwing philosophy. Gary Johnson's support of it drew millennial votes away from Hillary. "Johnson believes that marijuana should be legalized, regulated, and taxed, "just like tobacco." But he promises "it will never be legal for a person to smoke marijuana, become impaired, and get behind the wheel of a car or otherwise do harm to others, and it will never be legal for kids to smoke marijuana" Too many Electoral Senators were influenced by rightwing pressure.
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Can you name one actual millennial who would have voted for Hillary but instead voted for Gary Johnson because he supports legalizing pot? I work in an office full of millenials and none voted for Gary Johnson. Per the exit polls (imperfect, but all we have, Hillary ran strongest among 18-29 year -olds, clobbering Trump 55%-36%. She also won voters 30-44 by 10 points (and lost older age groups). Unfortunately, all the published breakdowns I've seen lump all 3rd party votes and "no answer" together in one rather useless statistic, so we don't have an estimate for how many in particular age brackets voted for Johnson or Stein.
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love2travel:
On an equally silly note, maybe they should adopt a system like that for sports games...giving extra points to small states and to rural states also states with less counties. It would makes the games so much fairer!
Or they could have weight in's like in some sports, to really even things out.
Or we could simply let the voters elect the president directly. Whoever gets the most votes wins. It's not that complicated.
love2travel:
A though provoking article, that may be of interest to some Trump voters. It is starting to play out now and will become even more obvious as time passes. Thinking this article makes it pretty clear to people how things are unfolding. http://wpo.st/bS9J2
This was always pretty obvious. I'm kind of amazed that anyone is amazed. All presidents appoint their friends and cronies. Trump is a corporate billionaire who lives in an ivory tower and eats pizza and fried chicken with a fork an knife. Why are people surprised that his friends are not regular working schlubs.
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Andy_Shofar:
It appears that you have answered your own question, if the 'Popular Vote' were to determine the outcome of all elections - the most populated cities alone would determine the elections outcome. Everyone else would have no incentive to vote. The Electoral College evens the mix as best as possible. I'm not an expert on the topic ... please consult other websites for the detail.
If I answered my own questions, that does not bode well for the Republican Party. You don't have to be an expert to ignore what the Republican Party wants you to believe and educate yourself. The electoral college evens out nothing. It only serves the 2 corporate parties, suppresses any other parties and makes the swing states more important than most of the country. If you vote Democrat in California or Republican in Texas, you might as well stay home. You won't make any difference at all. If the electoral college gives people an incentive to vote, it's failing. Under the electoral college, half the voters stay home. The Republican argument for the electoral college is that it prevents large states like New York and California from having more influence than smaller states. They always leave out Texas, for some reason. But with the electoral college, small states like Ohio and New Hampshire have more influence than larger states. How does that even anything out? States with the most people (except Texas) shouldn't have more power, so let's give more power to states with fewer people. That sounds like redistribution of wealth to me. If we elected presidents by direct vote like a democracy, California would have no more influence than Alaska. I used Alaska on purpose. It should be obvious why. Whoever got the most votes would win. It wouldn't be based on counties or states. Everyone's vote would count, no matter where they live or, most importantly, no matter who they vote for. You wouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils. You could vote for a candidate you actually want to win. That would give more people an incentive to vote.
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TRUMP complained a long time ago when he thought he was ahead in the popular polls that the electoral votes are an example of how elections are rigged. I have to agree with him. Hillary won the popular vote and he won (not officially yet) the electoral votes.
N.O.P.E. Not Our President Elect!!!
H.O.P.E. Hillary's Our Popularly Elected!!!
Many Electoral Senators May Change Their Electoral Vote Before December 19th When They Are Officially Counted.
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Dangerous Pipeline Must Be Rerouted. American Indian Nation Wins Battle To Protect Their And Many Other's Clean Water Rights. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/us/veterans-north-dakota-standing-rock.html?_r=0
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HOPE that Trump honors Obama's wishes...apparently DT has stocks in the companies, that would then lose money, if the pipeline doesn't go through. The man in the pipeline company donated a ton of money to the DT campaign and feels it will go through... Praying it doesn't !!!
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Crooked Donald is making Crooked Hillary look like a Saint
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So, we are possibly going to have an administration filled with millionaires and billionaires who have the best interests of average and low paid working Americans at heart.
They want to get rid of McDonalds and Burger King employees and all minimum wage jobs and replace them with machines that will have to be built and maintained by a much higher priced workforce. BRILLIANT!!!
The Most Profound Oxymoron I Have Ever Heard Is... "ADVANCED CONSERVATIVE STUDIES"
Why Are These RICH "Conservatives" So "LIBERAL" With The Amount They Allow Themselves To Be Paid? If People Don't Get Paid Enough Money By Small Business Owners To Be Able To Afford To Buy The Goods Of Other Small Business Owners...How In The Hail Do They Expect The Economy To Function? "ADVANCED CONSERVATIVE STUDIES"
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Bad news, Trump is still President elect. Our government surveillance department knows about Russian involvement and sits on it, before the election. The FBI chief accuses Hillary and makes her look bad, when they know it will sway the election. No one has done anything to put Trump's becoming President on hold for a recount, remove him for Treason, or impeach him for his illegal and unconstitutional business conflicts of interest. These are done, out in the open, as he thinks people are so stupid, they won't say anything. Clearly now, people with any intelligence can see by all of the people Trump is installing, he lied about EVERYTHING. Like he always bragged, he could shoot someone in the middle of the street, and still be elected. He was basically saying, Hey my voters, thanks for voting for me, I can tell you anything, it won't happen, and you all will vote for me anyway... I can stab you all in the back when I get elected, you will all think I'm working for you...(Haa Haa implied)!!! I'm gonna do whatever I want, and it will be too late by the time you notice... Trump is so crooked, he's making Crooked Hillary look like a saint. She wanted Solar Energy, to remove our reliance on oil. He's going to put the Exxon CEO as Secretary of State! So we're going to war for oil, against the Middle East. It's like a bad futuristic KGB movie has become today's reality in the US. I wish someone would prove this wrong... It's a disaster!! They're calling his style Authoritarian, PC for dictatorship. New nickname for Donald ... Don Quixote tilting at windmills...
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Trump lying about knowing a Nation's Leader. Trump attempting to justify the hacking of American computers by foreign governments. Trump inviting directly a foreign government to hack the computers of American citizens to gain information on an American citizen. A matter which was... An AMERICAN Concern.
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Trump says he doesn't need Intelligence because he's Smart. He is already attempting to erode the importance of having a form of dependable basic structure in our government. He has absolutely ZERO political experience. And, the bulk of the rest of our political leaders are becoming increasingly concerned.
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For those who have worked very hard for lower than average incomes in America and have paid into social security as well have paid their taxes fully and respectfully to support our government, fund our service members, pay for public education and help those Less fortunate and in need of help. Will be glad to know that in January 2017, they will receive a cost of living increase of 0.03 % or...30 cents per 100 hundred dollars...or 2 to 3 more dollars per month.
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SurSteven:
Trump says he doesn't need Intelligence because he's Smart. He is already attempting to erode the importance of having a form of dependable basic structure in our government. He has absolutely ZERO political experience. And, the bulk of the rest of our political leaders are becoming increasingly concerned.
Isn't this so insane, he is refusing most of the daily briefings
his wife is not planning on staying at the White House. He has made phone calls to world leaders against advice of the State Deparment, refusing to follow protocol...probably would have been explained in the briefings he has refused.