Tug of War 2015 Remix / Track by Track review
-
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
rich n:
B J Conlee:
Ebony and Ivory - 9 This song became hated because it was too successful at the time where FM radio played it to death. Fact is when you hear it now it is a very good pop song with clever lyrics about race relations and problems. The subject is still as valid as ever. Paul getting Stevie to collaborate was genius with the two taking vocal turns.
I agree that at the time, the song was played so often and that caused it to wear thin on people...however, that doesn't explain why a (seemingly) large amount of (younger) people who discovered the album after the fact don't care for the song...but in saying that, I like the song a lot and would give it the same rating you did
__________________________________________________ Rich n, You raise a very good point about Ebony and Ivory (E&I) and Tug of War in general. As a huge Paul fan of his music, I have been relatively disappointed in the 2015 response to Tug of War especially from the music press. While I have always thought Tug was a great album (and my opinion certainly didn't change with the re-release in 2015) I haven't seen the love for Tug almost 34 years later. This has surprise me. While I did see a couple of quite positive reviews on Tug over the last 3 months or so, most of them were mediocre at best. Certainly not anything close to the glowing terms following the original release from Rollingstone's Stephen Holden (5 stars) where he deemed Tug of War as Paul's masterpiece. At the same time the NY times also gave it a stunning review. In 2015 even Rollingstone's review (different critic) was lackluster. And other reviews I read weren't really praising it either. They would bring up a couple of good tracks but at the same time bring up the negatives. Where did the love go I ask? I have one theory (I'm interested in yours) and it solely relates to the question below: Does the hate for E&I alone keeps Tug of War from being considered one of Macca's Great Solo/Post Beatles' albums? Now that enough time has gone by (from the re-release) to see the general feeling about Tug of War, I have to almost believe that the answer to my question above is YES. And I say that despite the fact that E&I was fortunately placed as the last track. The reason I say this is true is twofold. First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. Secondly, after re-listening to Tug of War (after many years of not having it) I get some of the hate for E&I. At first I thought it was just because it was overplayed so much at the time it was originally released. That is partially true but after many years of not hearing it, I believe the main reason for the hate is honestly in the "production". I'm not a music expert in any way except for what I hear but to me the sound is very grating to the ears. Almost to the point you just want to skip the track. I love George Martin and normally he and Paul work very well together (e.g. just listen to Wanderlust or the song Tug of War) but here I believe he falters. Every one has a blind spot and this was clearly one of George's. Maybe it was just a case of too much Paul and Stevie and their Synthesizers. Maybe you needed a full orchestra like George used in the title track and Wanderlust. Both tracks sound so wonderful quite the opposite result from E&I. Again, I'm not a music expert but one thing for sure is that E&I has not held up well and unfortunatly has probably damaged the entire album. I don't believe the hate for E&I is mainly the lyrics or the melody. I think the melody is good and the words are still relevant but if the instrumentation is grating, everything about the song will be picked on. It is a shame because the rest of Tug of War to me is still wonderful. I'm not a big fan of the other Paul and Stevie duet (What's That You're Doing) but other critics do like it. Not a bad song but to me it runs a little long (over 6 minutes) and sounds more than a Stevie song on a Paul Album. But I do love all the other tracks and this "other" Paul/Stevie track has grown on me (I don't skip it). I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12. I understand that music is subjective but for an album that has Wanderlust, Here Today, Tug of War, Take It Away, Ballroom Dancing, The Pound is Sinking, and Somebody Who Cares on it...I can't see where there are 11 Paul albums that are better. I think the fact that E&I is on it is a main reason. I have had a few discussions about Tug of War with some of my non-Paul fans. They are not haters but certainly not Paul fans like we are. I sing the praises of Tug of War and the typical response is...Is that the album with E&I on it. Right away they are negative and maybe that is the answer for why Tug of War is not Paul's Masterpiece. In my opinion, Tug of War is generally in my Top 5 depending on the day/mood but unfortunately is has not resonated with the non-fan. That is a shame that some of the songs on Tug of War are not better known. What do you think?
"First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. " With all of those who despise it, guess what it was a #1 single for weeks. In other words, somebody was liking it and spending money to buy it. This song did what is was supposed to do, be a #1 hit single and be radio friendly. The video also played constantly on VH1 and I am sure this helped TOW be a #1 album also. It also got several Grammy nominations so it is not like it was critically bashed. Maybe TOW has not aged well for some but I don't believe the song "Ebony And Ivory" is the main reason.
_____________________________________________________ Yankeefan, You're exactly right that E&I did exactly what it was suppose to do and beyond as the "lead" single to promote the album. E&I instantly became a # 1 hit on the radio, on VH1, and it featured 2 of the biggest music stars on the planet which also gave it a big boost. Because of E&I, Tug of War became a #1 selling album and received a Grammy Album of the Year Nomination. The irony however is that the song that drove the album so successfully is at the same time, one of Paul's most bashed songs of all time. Just my opinion, but E&I after multiple listens did quickly become grating to many people because of the 80's production and the synthesizers. While the song did have tremendous commercial success, it didn't resonate with the masses in the long run...not even close unfortunately. While E&I did give Tug of War such a great start, it also ironically hurt the whole album in the long run. Unfairly, when many people think of Tug of War, they immediately think of E&I and in many cases, don't give the whole album a fair shake. Again, and ironically, the 2 songs that suffer the most from the downside of 80's production on Tug are the 2 duets that were billed by some as the cornerstones of the album. I still think songs like Wanderlust, Here Today, the title track, Take It Away etc. sound as great now as ever. I still love the album as a whole and think it is not only one of Paul's greatest, but a great album period no matter who the artist and era. But when I see Top 500 album polls of all time, you will probably never see Tug of War. Just my opinion, but I think the main reason is because of E&I despite the fact that I like the melody and sentiment of that song. Just the way it goes in the crazy music business but I will always love the album as a whole.
-
ewanme:
Why is no-one talking about this 'new' track. It's wonderful
What!? What is this I'm just now hearing. This is awesome! What a freakin cool song. Now why couldn't have he dusted this off and recorded for New. On man! I haven't picked up POP remastered yet. Wow. At first the intro didn't get me, but then every second for then I loved it. The whole thing is wonderful, can't stop replaying it. z
-
B J Conlee:
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
rich n:
B J Conlee:
Ebony and Ivory - 9 This song became hated because it was too successful at the time where FM radio played it to death. Fact is when you hear it now it is a very good pop song with clever lyrics about race relations and problems. The subject is still as valid as ever. Paul getting Stevie to collaborate was genius with the two taking vocal turns.
I agree that at the time, the song was played so often and that caused it to wear thin on people...however, that doesn't explain why a (seemingly) large amount of (younger) people who discovered the album after the fact don't care for the song...but in saying that, I like the song a lot and would give it the same rating you did
__________________________________________________ Rich n, You raise a very good point about Ebony and Ivory (E&I) and Tug of War in general. As a huge Paul fan of his music, I have been relatively disappointed in the 2015 response to Tug of War especially from the music press. While I have always thought Tug was a great album (and my opinion certainly didn't change with the re-release in 2015) I haven't seen the love for Tug almost 34 years later. This has surprise me. While I did see a couple of quite positive reviews on Tug over the last 3 months or so, most of them were mediocre at best. Certainly not anything close to the glowing terms following the original release from Rollingstone's Stephen Holden (5 stars) where he deemed Tug of War as Paul's masterpiece. At the same time the NY times also gave it a stunning review. In 2015 even Rollingstone's review (different critic) was lackluster. And other reviews I read weren't really praising it either. They would bring up a couple of good tracks but at the same time bring up the negatives. Where did the love go I ask? I have one theory (I'm interested in yours) and it solely relates to the question below: Does the hate for E&I alone keeps Tug of War from being considered one of Macca's Great Solo/Post Beatles' albums? Now that enough time has gone by (from the re-release) to see the general feeling about Tug of War, I have to almost believe that the answer to my question above is YES. And I say that despite the fact that E&I was fortunately placed as the last track. The reason I say this is true is twofold. First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. Secondly, after re-listening to Tug of War (after many years of not having it) I get some of the hate for E&I. At first I thought it was just because it was overplayed so much at the time it was originally released. That is partially true but after many years of not hearing it, I believe the main reason for the hate is honestly in the "production". I'm not a music expert in any way except for what I hear but to me the sound is very grating to the ears. Almost to the point you just want to skip the track. I love George Martin and normally he and Paul work very well together (e.g. just listen to Wanderlust or the song Tug of War) but here I believe he falters. Every one has a blind spot and this was clearly one of George's. Maybe it was just a case of too much Paul and Stevie and their Synthesizers. Maybe you needed a full orchestra like George used in the title track and Wanderlust. Both tracks sound so wonderful quite the opposite result from E&I. Again, I'm not a music expert but one thing for sure is that E&I has not held up well and unfortunatly has probably damaged the entire album. I don't believe the hate for E&I is mainly the lyrics or the melody. I think the melody is good and the words are still relevant but if the instrumentation is grating, everything about the song will be picked on. It is a shame because the rest of Tug of War to me is still wonderful. I'm not a big fan of the other Paul and Stevie duet (What's That You're Doing) but other critics do like it. Not a bad song but to me it runs a little long (over 6 minutes) and sounds more than a Stevie song on a Paul Album. But I do love all the other tracks and this "other" Paul/Stevie track has grown on me (I don't skip it). I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12. I understand that music is subjective but for an album that has Wanderlust, Here Today, Tug of War, Take It Away, Ballroom Dancing, The Pound is Sinking, and Somebody Who Cares on it...I can't see where there are 11 Paul albums that are better. I think the fact that E&I is on it is a main reason. I have had a few discussions about Tug of War with some of my non-Paul fans. They are not haters but certainly not Paul fans like we are. I sing the praises of Tug of War and the typical response is...Is that the album with E&I on it. Right away they are negative and maybe that is the answer for why Tug of War is not Paul's Masterpiece. In my opinion, Tug of War is generally in my Top 5 depending on the day/mood but unfortunately is has not resonated with the non-fan. That is a shame that some of the songs on Tug of War are not better known. What do you think?
"First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. " With all of those who despise it, guess what it was a #1 single for weeks. In other words, somebody was liking it and spending money to buy it. This song did what is was supposed to do, be a #1 hit single and be radio friendly. The video also played constantly on VH1 and I am sure this helped TOW be a #1 album also. It also got several Grammy nominations so it is not like it was critically bashed. Maybe TOW has not aged well for some but I don't believe the song "Ebony And Ivory" is the main reason.
_____________________________________________________ Yankeefan, You're exactly right that E&I did exactly what it was suppose to do and beyond as the "lead" single to promote the album. E&I instantly became a # 1 hit on the radio, on VH1, and it featured 2 of the biggest music stars on the planet which also gave it a big boost. Because of E&I, Tug of War became a #1 selling album and received a Grammy Album of the Year Nomination. The irony however is that the song that drove the album so successfully is at the same time, one of Paul's most bashed songs of all time. Just my opinion, but E&I after multiple listens did quickly become grating to many people because of the 80's production and the synthesizers. While the song did have tremendous commercial success, it didn't resonate with the masses in the long run...not even close unfortunately. While E&I did give Tug of War such a great start, it also ironically hurt the whole album in the long run. Unfairly, when many people think of Tug of War, they immediately think of E&I and in many cases, don't give the whole album a fair shake. Again, and ironically, the 2 songs that suffer the most from the downside of 80's production on Tug are the 2 duets that were billed by some as the cornerstones of the album. I still think songs like Wanderlust, Here Today, the title track, Take It Away etc. sound as great now as ever. I still love the album as a whole and think it is not only one of Paul's greatest, but a great album period no matter who the artist and era. But when I see Top 500 album polls of all time, you will probably never see Tug of War. Just my opinion, but I think the main reason is because of E&I despite the fact that I like the melody and sentiment of that song. Just the way it goes in the crazy music business but I will always love the album as a whole.
" I still love the album as a whole and think it is not only one of Paul's greatest, but a great album period no matter who the artist and era. But when I see Top 500 album polls of all time, you will probably never see Tug of War." I love the album also, in my top 3. I think the problem is that album like BOTR the awesome singles (BOTR, Jet etc) fit the mood of the album and the rest of the songs. They also sound great live so I think that is why people and critics will rate this better than TOW which I would not. Like you mentioned, "Ebony and Ivy" almost sounds like it belongs somewhere else when you listen to great songs like "Tug Of War", Wanderlust", Here Today", "Take It Away" etc.
-
Yankeefan7 Your absolutely right with your last point. If I try to be objective, Tug of War is not as cohesive as Band on the Run. I would add that both Stevie Wonder collaborations sound like they should be on a different album than the other great songs from Tug. Because of that, Tug of War will probably never be on a Top 500 albums of all time list like Band on the Run generally is. Just read a Tug of War review that I somehow missed. It is on Popdose.com and the writer is Rob Ross. He is from Staten Island by the way. Rob kind of makes my earlier points. He loves the Album Tug of War and gives it a "Highly Recommend" Rating. At the same time, he hates E&I and very candidly says so. And this is a critic (and former musician) who really likes Macca and appreciates his enormous talent. At least Rob is a critic who really listened to the whole album despite his extreme dislike for the big hit of the album. Unfortunately and in many cases, too many people from the music press who are either indifferent to Paul or worse yet, dislike him (and are not objective) can't get pass E&I to give the whole album a fair chance. I would have posted Rob Ross's review but I'm an old dog trying to learn new tricks. I think you would find his review interesting. I did reply to Rob telling him the good points of E&I beyond the 80's production. One thing that does make me feel much better about the overall opinion (from regular people) towards Tug of War. I went on Amazon and saw a summary of Customer Reviews on Tug. This is not a poll of strictly huge Paul McCartney fans like you and me. I think it represents a more fairly broad poll of music lovers in general and how they feel about the album. So far the results are: 170 Reviews 90% give Tug of War either a 4 or 5 star rating 68% give Tug of War a 5 star rating At the end of all this discussion, that is a pretty damn impressive result and certainly gives the QUALITY of Tug of War strong credence.
-
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
rich n:
B J Conlee:
Ebony and Ivory - 9 This song became hated because it was too successful at the time where FM radio played it to death. Fact is when you hear it now it is a very good pop song with clever lyrics about race relations and problems. The subject is still as valid as ever. Paul getting Stevie to collaborate was genius with the two taking vocal turns.
I agree that at the time, the song was played so often and that caused it to wear thin on people...however, that doesn't explain why a (seemingly) large amount of (younger) people who discovered the album after the fact don't care for the song...but in saying that, I like the song a lot and would give it the same rating you did
__________________________________________________ Rich n, You raise a very good point about Ebony and Ivory (E&I) and Tug of War in general. As a huge Paul fan of his music, I have been relatively disappointed in the 2015 response to Tug of War especially from the music press. While I have always thought Tug was a great album (and my opinion certainly didn't change with the re-release in 2015) I haven't seen the love for Tug almost 34 years later. This has surprise me. While I did see a couple of quite positive reviews on Tug over the last 3 months or so, most of them were mediocre at best. Certainly not anything close to the glowing terms following the original release from Rollingstone's Stephen Holden (5 stars) where he deemed Tug of War as Paul's masterpiece. At the same time the NY times also gave it a stunning review. In 2015 even Rollingstone's review (different critic) was lackluster. And other reviews I read weren't really praising it either. They would bring up a couple of good tracks but at the same time bring up the negatives. Where did the love go I ask? I have one theory (I'm interested in yours) and it solely relates to the question below: Does the hate for E&I alone keeps Tug of War from being considered one of Macca's Great Solo/Post Beatles' albums? Now that enough time has gone by (from the re-release) to see the general feeling about Tug of War, I have to almost believe that the answer to my question above is YES. And I say that despite the fact that E&I was fortunately placed as the last track. The reason I say this is true is twofold. First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. Secondly, after re-listening to Tug of War (after many years of not having it) I get some of the hate for E&I. At first I thought it was just because it was overplayed so much at the time it was originally released. That is partially true but after many years of not hearing it, I believe the main reason for the hate is honestly in the "production". I'm not a music expert in any way except for what I hear but to me the sound is very grating to the ears. Almost to the point you just want to skip the track. I love George Martin and normally he and Paul work very well together (e.g. just listen to Wanderlust or the song Tug of War) but here I believe he falters. Every one has a blind spot and this was clearly one of George's. Maybe it was just a case of too much Paul and Stevie and their Synthesizers. Maybe you needed a full orchestra like George used in the title track and Wanderlust. Both tracks sound so wonderful quite the opposite result from E&I. Again, I'm not a music expert but one thing for sure is that E&I has not held up well and unfortunatly has probably damaged the entire album. I don't believe the hate for E&I is mainly the lyrics or the melody. I think the melody is good and the words are still relevant but if the instrumentation is grating, everything about the song will be picked on. It is a shame because the rest of Tug of War to me is still wonderful. I'm not a big fan of the other Paul and Stevie duet (What's That You're Doing) but other critics do like it. Not a bad song but to me it runs a little long (over 6 minutes) and sounds more than a Stevie song on a Paul Album. But I do love all the other tracks and this "other" Paul/Stevie track has grown on me (I don't skip it). I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12. I understand that music is subjective but for an album that has Wanderlust, Here Today, Tug of War, Take It Away, Ballroom Dancing, The Pound is Sinking, and Somebody Who Cares on it...I can't see where there are 11 Paul albums that are better. I think the fact that E&I is on it is a main reason. I have had a few discussions about Tug of War with some of my non-Paul fans. They are not haters but certainly not Paul fans like we are. I sing the praises of Tug of War and the typical response is...Is that the album with E&I on it. Right away they are negative and maybe that is the answer for why Tug of War is not Paul's Masterpiece. In my opinion, Tug of War is generally in my Top 5 depending on the day/mood but unfortunately is has not resonated with the non-fan. That is a shame that some of the songs on Tug of War are not better known. What do you think?
"First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. " With all of those who despise it, guess what it was a #1 single for weeks. In other words, somebody was liking it and spending money to buy it. This song did what is was supposed to do, be a #1 hit single and be radio friendly. The video also played constantly on VH1 and I am sure this helped TOW be a #1 album also. It also got several Grammy nominations so it is not like it was critically bashed. Maybe TOW has not aged well for some but I don't believe the song "Ebony And Ivory" is the main reason.
I'm pretty sure that VH-1 didn't premiere until three years after Tug Of War. But, still, the video was as ubiquitous on television as the track was on radio.
-
audi:
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
rich n:
B J Conlee:
Ebony and Ivory - 9 This song became hated because it was too successful at the time where FM radio played it to death. Fact is when you hear it now it is a very good pop song with clever lyrics about race relations and problems. The subject is still as valid as ever. Paul getting Stevie to collaborate was genius with the two taking vocal turns.
I agree that at the time, the song was played so often and that caused it to wear thin on people...however, that doesn't explain why a (seemingly) large amount of (younger) people who discovered the album after the fact don't care for the song...but in saying that, I like the song a lot and would give it the same rating you did
__________________________________________________ Rich n, You raise a very good point about Ebony and Ivory (E&I) and Tug of War in general. As a huge Paul fan of his music, I have been relatively disappointed in the 2015 response to Tug of War especially from the music press. While I have always thought Tug was a great album (and my opinion certainly didn't change with the re-release in 2015) I haven't seen the love for Tug almost 34 years later. This has surprise me. While I did see a couple of quite positive reviews on Tug over the last 3 months or so, most of them were mediocre at best. Certainly not anything close to the glowing terms following the original release from Rollingstone's Stephen Holden (5 stars) where he deemed Tug of War as Paul's masterpiece. At the same time the NY times also gave it a stunning review. In 2015 even Rollingstone's review (different critic) was lackluster. And other reviews I read weren't really praising it either. They would bring up a couple of good tracks but at the same time bring up the negatives. Where did the love go I ask? I have one theory (I'm interested in yours) and it solely relates to the question below: Does the hate for E&I alone keeps Tug of War from being considered one of Macca's Great Solo/Post Beatles' albums? Now that enough time has gone by (from the re-release) to see the general feeling about Tug of War, I have to almost believe that the answer to my question above is YES. And I say that despite the fact that E&I was fortunately placed as the last track. The reason I say this is true is twofold. First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. Secondly, after re-listening to Tug of War (after many years of not having it) I get some of the hate for E&I. At first I thought it was just because it was overplayed so much at the time it was originally released. That is partially true but after many years of not hearing it, I believe the main reason for the hate is honestly in the "production". I'm not a music expert in any way except for what I hear but to me the sound is very grating to the ears. Almost to the point you just want to skip the track. I love George Martin and normally he and Paul work very well together (e.g. just listen to Wanderlust or the song Tug of War) but here I believe he falters. Every one has a blind spot and this was clearly one of George's. Maybe it was just a case of too much Paul and Stevie and their Synthesizers. Maybe you needed a full orchestra like George used in the title track and Wanderlust. Both tracks sound so wonderful quite the opposite result from E&I. Again, I'm not a music expert but one thing for sure is that E&I has not held up well and unfortunatly has probably damaged the entire album. I don't believe the hate for E&I is mainly the lyrics or the melody. I think the melody is good and the words are still relevant but if the instrumentation is grating, everything about the song will be picked on. It is a shame because the rest of Tug of War to me is still wonderful. I'm not a big fan of the other Paul and Stevie duet (What's That You're Doing) but other critics do like it. Not a bad song but to me it runs a little long (over 6 minutes) and sounds more than a Stevie song on a Paul Album. But I do love all the other tracks and this "other" Paul/Stevie track has grown on me (I don't skip it). I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12. I understand that music is subjective but for an album that has Wanderlust, Here Today, Tug of War, Take It Away, Ballroom Dancing, The Pound is Sinking, and Somebody Who Cares on it...I can't see where there are 11 Paul albums that are better. I think the fact that E&I is on it is a main reason. I have had a few discussions about Tug of War with some of my non-Paul fans. They are not haters but certainly not Paul fans like we are. I sing the praises of Tug of War and the typical response is...Is that the album with E&I on it. Right away they are negative and maybe that is the answer for why Tug of War is not Paul's Masterpiece. In my opinion, Tug of War is generally in my Top 5 depending on the day/mood but unfortunately is has not resonated with the non-fan. That is a shame that some of the songs on Tug of War are not better known. What do you think?
"First, you have to be objective. Even though I may think E&I is an OK to good song, that is certainly not the belief of the huge majority many of whom are also Paul fans. Many of the latter group also despise it. " With all of those who despise it, guess what it was a #1 single for weeks. In other words, somebody was liking it and spending money to buy it. This song did what is was supposed to do, be a #1 hit single and be radio friendly. The video also played constantly on VH1 and I am sure this helped TOW be a #1 album also. It also got several Grammy nominations so it is not like it was critically bashed. Maybe TOW has not aged well for some but I don't believe the song "Ebony And Ivory" is the main reason.
I'm pretty sure that VH-1 didn't premiere until three years after Tug Of War. But, still, the video was as ubiquitous on television as the track was on radio.
I sorry, my mistake. It was on MTV all the time.
-
Ebony and Ivory was Paul's jumping the shark moment. He was never the same or as cool after that. MII was such a cool album 2 years earlier. I cant believe the same artist wrote E&I.
-
Got this for Christmas but haven't been able to devote time to it yet
-
JoeySmith:
Ebony and Ivory was Paul's jumping the shark moment. He was never the same or as cool after that. MII was such a cool album 2 years earlier. I cant believe the same artist wrote E&I.
I know McCartney wrote the song alone but Wonder sang on it and if he did not approve of it I am sure he would have said something. So how come Wonder is still cool but McCartney is not?
-
JoeySmith:
ToW vs. Image album. If Paul had written ToW 10 years earlier (a-la- Imagine) & recorded using early 70's production, it would be deemed Paul's masterpiece. The songs as they sound, although melodic, have no bite & suffers from the sterile, soft, synthesizer-heavy production of this period. Even E&I, recorded with a simple piano or guitar instrumentation, would have come off better. The album is a victim of its times.
"I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12" I would really love to see that list with 11 better albums than TOW. The only ones even close IMO is BOTR, CHAOS, Flaming Pie and maybe FITD.
-
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
-
yankeefan7:
JoeySmith:
ToW vs. Image album. If Paul had written ToW 10 years earlier (a-la- Imagine) & recorded using early 70's production, it would be deemed Paul's masterpiece. The songs as they sound, although melodic, have no bite & suffers from the sterile, soft, synthesizer-heavy production of this period. Even E&I, recorded with a simple piano or guitar instrumentation, would have come off better. The album is a victim of its times.
"I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12" I would really love to see that list with 11 better albums than TOW. The only ones even close IMO is BOTR, CHAOS, Flaming Pie and maybe FITD.
_______________________________________________ Yankeefan, I revisited the site...it was ultimateclassicrock.com they actually had Tug of War at #10. Like you, I would have TOW in the top 4 with the other 3 being BOTR, Flaming Pie, and Chaos. Just my opinion, but just behind those 4, I would have Ram, Venus and Mars, FITD and Memory Almost Full. Anyone who says that Paul's Post Beatles career was poor or lackluster at best, should consider those 8 albums. Then you have quite a few albums that might have been inconsistent, but still containing a lot of good material. A Pretty darn good Post Beatles' Career imho.
-
RMartinez:
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
______________________________________________ RMartinez, You're right regarding your last point. While didn't mean that George Martin was the main problem with E&I, I can see how anyone could interpret as such from my previous reply. In retrospect, I have never seen any quote from Mr. Martin regarding the production on E&I, either positive or negative. The other factor that I should realize is that even if George didn't like the results, it is very hard (even for a producer as prestigious as Mr. Martin) for anyone to tell 2 of the greatest artists on the planet that he didn't like their result. I would be very curious of the reasoning behind having just the 2 of them play it. While I can see that the initial thought would be very positive towards just them, the synthesizers being so glaringly out front in the final mix really did hurt the song in the long run. The irony is that E&I as the lead single did an amazing job of selling Tug of War upon its release, but even people who initially liked E&I grew to dislike it very quickly after repeated listens. The word "grating" is the best description for the extreme distaste in the sound from many (even objective people about Paul). Further irony about the huge success of E&I in the beginning, is that the song has hurt the overall opinion of the overall album in the long run. I believe that potentially Tug of War would not only be considered as Paul's masterpiece (even over BOTR) but could have gone down as one of the great albums period. As I have said previously, too many (critics, music press, overall music lovers etc.) can't get over the fact that E&I was the big single from the album and they don't or care to look at the overall album. Because of this fact, many of the great tracks from E&I get generally overlooked. As we have also said numerous times on this site, Paul unfortunately has failed to help his own cause regarding Tug of War. Yes, "Here Today" has become a mainstay in his Live Shows (because it is the obvious song to choose for a John tribute number) but he has never played any of the other great Tug tracks live. Tracks that I might add are significantly better than E&I. That is a travesty in my opinion. Look how Maybe I'm Amazed became a signature song for Macca. It happened because he played it in his first World Tour in 1976 and smartly put it out as a single. Then (and again smartly) he continued to sing it on practically every tour since. That's one way a song becomes a signature song. Why he didn't do the same for a couple of the tracks from Tug of War like Wanderlust, Tug of War (the song) , and Take It Away still baffles me. Then again, I never understood why he didn't treat Mull of Kintyre in the same fashion. It still would have given Paul plenty of room for Paul to play many of his signature Beatle songs. Even an artist as prolific as Paul can only have so many signature songs but the ones I've named here (from his Solo side specifically) certainly have the potential. It's like Paul doesn't think as high as he should about his own great Solo songs.
-
B J Conlee:
RMartinez:
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
______________________________________________ RMartinez, You're right regarding your last point. While didn't mean that George Martin was the main problem with E&I, I can see how anyone could interpret as such from my previous reply. In retrospect, I have never seen any quote from Mr. Martin regarding the production on E&I, either positive or negative. The other factor that I should realize is that even if George didn't like the results, it is very hard (even for a producer as prestigious as Mr. Martin) for anyone to tell 2 of the greatest artists on the planet that he didn't like their result. I would be very curious of the reasoning behind having just the 2 of them play it. While I can see that the initial thought would be very positive towards just them, the synthesizers being so glaringly out front in the final mix really did hurt the song in the long run. The irony is that E&I as the lead single did an amazing job of selling Tug of War upon its release, but even people who initially liked E&I grew to dislike it very quickly after repeated listens. The word "grating" is the best description for the extreme distaste in the sound from many (even objective people about Paul). Further irony about the huge success of E&I in the beginning, is that the song has hurt the overall opinion of the overall album in the long run. I believe that potentially Tug of War would not only be considered as Paul's masterpiece (even over BOTR) but could have gone down as one of the great albums period. As I have said previously, too many (critics, music press, overall music lovers etc.) can't get over the fact that E&I was the big single from the album and they don't or care to look at the overall album. Because of this fact, many of the great tracks from E&I get generally overlooked. As we have also said numerous times on this site, Paul unfortunately has failed to help his own cause regarding Tug of War. Yes, "Here Today" has become a mainstay in his Live Shows (because it is the obvious song to choose for a John tribute number) but he has never played any of the other great Tug tracks live. Tracks that I might add are significantly better than E&I. That is a travesty in my opinion. Look how Maybe I'm Amazed became a signature song for Macca. It happened because he played it in his first World Tour in 1976 and smartly put it out as a single. Then (and again smartly) he continued to sing it on practically every tour since. That's one way a song becomes a signature song. Why he didn't do the same for a couple of the tracks from Tug of War like Wanderlust, Tug of War (the song) , and Take It Away still baffles me. Then again, I never understood why he didn't treat Mull of Kintyre in the same fashion. It still would have given Paul plenty of room for Paul to play many of his signature Beatle songs. Even an artist as prolific as Paul can only have so many signature songs but the ones I've named here (from his Solo side specifically) certainly have the potential. It's like Paul doesn't think as high as he should about his own great Solo songs.
________________________________________________ The sentence before the last paragraph, I meant to say "many of the great tracks from TUG OF WAR get generally overlooked.
-
B J Conlee:
RMartinez:
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
______________________________________________ RMartinez, You're right regarding your last point. While didn't mean that George Martin was the main problem with E&I, I can see how anyone could interpret as such from my previous reply. In retrospect, I have never seen any quote from Mr. Martin regarding the production on E&I, either positive or negative. The other factor that I should realize is that even if George didn't like the results, it is very hard (even for a producer as prestigious as Mr. Martin) for anyone to tell 2 of the greatest artists on the planet that he didn't like their result. I would be very curious of the reasoning behind having just the 2 of them play it. While I can see that the initial thought would be very positive towards just them, the synthesizers being so glaringly out front in the final mix really did hurt the song in the long run. The irony is that E&I as the lead single did an amazing job of selling Tug of War upon its release, but even people who initially liked E&I grew to dislike it very quickly after repeated listens. The word "grating" is the best description for the extreme distaste in the sound from many (even objective people about Paul). Further irony about the huge success of E&I in the beginning, is that the song has hurt the overall opinion of the overall album in the long run. I believe that potentially Tug of War would not only be considered as Paul's masterpiece (even over BOTR) but could have gone down as one of the great albums period. As I have said previously, too many (critics, music press, overall music lovers etc.) can't get over the fact that E&I was the big single from the album and they don't or care to look at the overall album. Because of this fact, many of the great tracks from E&I get generally overlooked. As we have also said numerous times on this site, Paul unfortunately has failed to help his own cause regarding Tug of War. Yes, "Here Today" has become a mainstay in his Live Shows (because it is the obvious song to choose for a John tribute number) but he has never played any of the other great Tug tracks live. Tracks that I might add are significantly better than E&I. That is a travesty in my opinion. Look how Maybe I'm Amazed became a signature song for Macca. It happened because he played it in his first World Tour in 1976 and smartly put it out as a single. Then (and again smartly) he continued to sing it on practically every tour since. That's one way a song becomes a signature song. Why he didn't do the same for a couple of the tracks from Tug of War like Wanderlust, Tug of War (the song) , and Take It Away still baffles me. Then again, I never understood why he didn't treat Mull of Kintyre in the same fashion. It still would have given Paul plenty of room for Paul to play many of his signature Beatle songs. Even an artist as prolific as Paul can only have so many signature songs but the ones I've named here (from his Solo side specifically) certainly have the potential. It's like Paul doesn't think as high as he should about his own great Solo songs.
I agree with all of your points. That synth sound on E&I was pretty popular back then, but it sounds really dated now, and that is part of the problem. Part of the problem is Paul waited seven years to tour again, so perhaps to him, in 1989, he really wanted to leave the 80s, which were not kind to him, behind. That included Tug Of War. And yet, on the 1989 tour, he played E&I live, but no other song from the LP!! I saw him in LA at the Forum on that tour, and Stevie Wonder joined him on stage, so we got to hear E&I TWICE that night!!! I really have no answer. He toured three years after BOTR and featured quite a few songs from that LP on the Wings Over America tour. Why not play Take It Away in 1989 and 1993? I have no idea.
-
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
RMartinez:
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
______________________________________________ RMartinez, You're right regarding your last point. While didn't mean that George Martin was the main problem with E&I, I can see how anyone could interpret as such from my previous reply. In retrospect, I have never seen any quote from Mr. Martin regarding the production on E&I, either positive or negative. The other factor that I should realize is that even if George didn't like the results, it is very hard (even for a producer as prestigious as Mr. Martin) for anyone to tell 2 of the greatest artists on the planet that he didn't like their result. I would be very curious of the reasoning behind having just the 2 of them play it. While I can see that the initial thought would be very positive towards just them, the synthesizers being so glaringly out front in the final mix really did hurt the song in the long run. The irony is that E&I as the lead single did an amazing job of selling Tug of War upon its release, but even people who initially liked E&I grew to dislike it very quickly after repeated listens. The word "grating" is the best description for the extreme distaste in the sound from many (even objective people about Paul). Further irony about the huge success of E&I in the beginning, is that the song has hurt the overall opinion of the overall album in the long run. I believe that potentially Tug of War would not only be considered as Paul's masterpiece (even over BOTR) but could have gone down as one of the great albums period. As I have said previously, too many (critics, music press, overall music lovers etc.) can't get over the fact that E&I was the big single from the album and they don't or care to look at the overall album. Because of this fact, many of the great tracks from E&I get generally overlooked. As we have also said numerous times on this site, Paul unfortunately has failed to help his own cause regarding Tug of War. Yes, "Here Today" has become a mainstay in his Live Shows (because it is the obvious song to choose for a John tribute number) but he has never played any of the other great Tug tracks live. Tracks that I might add are significantly better than E&I. That is a travesty in my opinion. Look how Maybe I'm Amazed became a signature song for Macca. It happened because he played it in his first World Tour in 1976 and smartly put it out as a single. Then (and again smartly) he continued to sing it on practically every tour since. That's one way a song becomes a signature song. Why he didn't do the same for a couple of the tracks from Tug of War like Wanderlust, Tug of War (the song) , and Take It Away still baffles me. Then again, I never understood why he didn't treat Mull of Kintyre in the same fashion. It still would have given Paul plenty of room for Paul to play many of his signature Beatle songs. Even an artist as prolific as Paul can only have so many signature songs but the ones I've named here (from his Solo side specifically) certainly have the potential. It's like Paul doesn't think as high as he should about his own great Solo songs.
I agree with all of your points. That synth sound on E&I was pretty popular back then, but it sounds really dated now, and that is part of the problem. Part of the problem is Paul waited seven years to tour again, so perhaps to him, in 1989, he really wanted to leave the 80s, which were not kind to him, behind. That included Tug Of War. And yet, on the 1989 tour, he played E&I live, but no other song from the LP!! I saw him in LA at the Forum on that tour, and Stevie Wonder joined him on stage, so we got to hear E&I TWICE that night!!! I really have no answer. He toured three years after BOTR and featured quite a few songs from that LP on the Wings Over America tour. Why not play Take It Away in 1989 and 1993? I have no idea.
Keep in mind that he dumped E&I from the set list after the first leg of the 89/90 tour and even made references to reading/hearing negative feedback (even in otherwise glowing reviews of those shows in general)
-
RMartinez:
And yet, on the 1989 tour, he played E&I live, but no other song from the LP!! I saw him in LA at the Forum on that tour, and Stevie Wonder joined him on stage, so we got to hear E&I TWICE that night!!!
That would be awesome. I'd pay real money to see Paul and Stevie on stage together.
-
B J Conlee:
yankeefan7:
JoeySmith:
ToW vs. Image album. If Paul had written ToW 10 years earlier (a-la- Imagine) & recorded using early 70's production, it would be deemed Paul's masterpiece. The songs as they sound, although melodic, have no bite & suffers from the sterile, soft, synthesizer-heavy production of this period. Even E&I, recorded with a simple piano or guitar instrumentation, would have come off better. The album is a victim of its times.
"I saw a ranking of Paul's Post Beatles' albums on the internet the other day (from a classic rock site). They had Tug of War ranked 12" I would really love to see that list with 11 better albums than TOW. The only ones even close IMO is BOTR, CHAOS, Flaming Pie and maybe FITD.
_______________________________________________ Yankeefan, I revisited the site...it was ultimateclassicrock.com they actually had Tug of War at #10. Like you, I would have TOW in the top 4 with the other 3 being BOTR, Flaming Pie, and Chaos. Just my opinion, but just behind those 4, I would have Ram, Venus and Mars, FITD and Memory Almost Full. Anyone who says that Paul's Post Beatles career was poor or lackluster at best, should consider those 8 albums. Then you have quite a few albums that might have been inconsistent, but still containing a lot of good material. A Pretty darn good Post Beatles' Career imho.
"Then you have quite a few albums that might have been inconsistent, but still containing a lot of good material. A Pretty darn good Post Beatles' Career imho." Yep, not all of DR was great but there was some excellent stuff like "Lonely Road" and "About You" for example. "Run Devil Run" was mostly covers but the three original songs fit in with the the 50's covers very well and were high quality stuff. "Off The Ground" had ups and downs but still had song like "Hope Of Deliverance which IMO is a McCartney classic.
-
rich n:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
RMartinez:
A lot of folks here are acting like E&I was some sort of anomaly for Paul. It wasn't. It is pure McCartney, exactly what he wanted to write and put out, and it is what he is known for. Songs like that. Yes, he wrote Tug Of War, Junior's Farm, and Girls School, but he also put out Silly Love Songs, With A Little Luck, and Ebony and Ivory. It's what he does. To blame George Martin's production of the song for why people crinkle their nose at it today is just ludicrous.
______________________________________________ RMartinez, You're right regarding your last point. While didn't mean that George Martin was the main problem with E&I, I can see how anyone could interpret as such from my previous reply. In retrospect, I have never seen any quote from Mr. Martin regarding the production on E&I, either positive or negative. The other factor that I should realize is that even if George didn't like the results, it is very hard (even for a producer as prestigious as Mr. Martin) for anyone to tell 2 of the greatest artists on the planet that he didn't like their result. I would be very curious of the reasoning behind having just the 2 of them play it. While I can see that the initial thought would be very positive towards just them, the synthesizers being so glaringly out front in the final mix really did hurt the song in the long run. The irony is that E&I as the lead single did an amazing job of selling Tug of War upon its release, but even people who initially liked E&I grew to dislike it very quickly after repeated listens. The word "grating" is the best description for the extreme distaste in the sound from many (even objective people about Paul). Further irony about the huge success of E&I in the beginning, is that the song has hurt the overall opinion of the overall album in the long run. I believe that potentially Tug of War would not only be considered as Paul's masterpiece (even over BOTR) but could have gone down as one of the great albums period. As I have said previously, too many (critics, music press, overall music lovers etc.) can't get over the fact that E&I was the big single from the album and they don't or care to look at the overall album. Because of this fact, many of the great tracks from E&I get generally overlooked. As we have also said numerous times on this site, Paul unfortunately has failed to help his own cause regarding Tug of War. Yes, "Here Today" has become a mainstay in his Live Shows (because it is the obvious song to choose for a John tribute number) but he has never played any of the other great Tug tracks live. Tracks that I might add are significantly better than E&I. That is a travesty in my opinion. Look how Maybe I'm Amazed became a signature song for Macca. It happened because he played it in his first World Tour in 1976 and smartly put it out as a single. Then (and again smartly) he continued to sing it on practically every tour since. That's one way a song becomes a signature song. Why he didn't do the same for a couple of the tracks from Tug of War like Wanderlust, Tug of War (the song) , and Take It Away still baffles me. Then again, I never understood why he didn't treat Mull of Kintyre in the same fashion. It still would have given Paul plenty of room for Paul to play many of his signature Beatle songs. Even an artist as prolific as Paul can only have so many signature songs but the ones I've named here (from his Solo side specifically) certainly have the potential. It's like Paul doesn't think as high as he should about his own great Solo songs.
I agree with all of your points. That synth sound on E&I was pretty popular back then, but it sounds really dated now, and that is part of the problem. Part of the problem is Paul waited seven years to tour again, so perhaps to him, in 1989, he really wanted to leave the 80s, which were not kind to him, behind. That included Tug Of War. And yet, on the 1989 tour, he played E&I live, but no other song from the LP!! I saw him in LA at the Forum on that tour, and Stevie Wonder joined him on stage, so we got to hear E&I TWICE that night!!! I really have no answer. He toured three years after BOTR and featured quite a few songs from that LP on the Wings Over America tour. Why not play Take It Away in 1989 and 1993? I have no idea.
Keep in mind that he dumped E&I from the set list after the first leg of the 89/90 tour and even made references to reading/hearing negative feedback (even in otherwise glowing reviews of those shows in general)
"I really have no answer. He toured three years after BOTR and featured quite a few songs from that LP on the Wings Over America tour. Why not play Take It Away in 1989 and 1993? I have no idea." Me either. I have constantly said that it is a shame he did not do "Take It Away" live.
-
HaileyMcComet:
RMartinez:
And yet, on the 1989 tour, he played E&I live, but no other song from the LP!! I saw him in LA at the Forum on that tour, and Stevie Wonder joined him on stage, so we got to hear E&I TWICE that night!!!
That would be awesome. I'd pay real money to see Paul and Stevie on stage together.
"That would be awesome. I'd pay real money to see Paul and Stevie on stage together." They did this song together at the White House in 2010.