Flaming Pie has aged very well - 20 year anniversary
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Bruce M.:
I've always felt, as some expressed above, that Flaming Pie was haunted by Linda's illness. There's a streak of melancholy mixed with anxiety that runs through the whole album. It's obvious in Somedays (Somedays I cry/I cry for those who fear the worst), but present in lots of other spots. I clearly remember thinking, on maybe my 3rd or 4th listen -- enough that I was beginning to really be able to process the album -- "This man is scared to death that his wife is going to die."
______________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more Bruce. Maybe that is why Paul wrote a few of his greatest Solo songs under that duress. His lyrics on some of the songs are deeper and more meaningful. Somedays, Little Willow, Calico Skies and Beautiful Night would all be in my Top 20 of Greatest Macca Post Beatles' Songs. Only my opinion, but Flaming Pie to me is like Paul's Revolver with 5 or 6 fantastic, classic songs on it. I'm a little anxious myself this morning. Going in to have what they call MOHS Surgery on my right ear for Skin Cancer. They say it is "Passive" but I'm still anxious nevertheless. Hopefully, I'll be reporting back here later today with good and smooth results.
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B J Conlee:
...... I'm a little anxious myself this morning. Going in to have what they call MOHS Surgery on my right ear for Skin Cancer. They say it is "Passive" but I'm still anxious nevertheless. Hopefully, I'll be reporting back here later today with good and smooth results.
Best of luck to you this morning.
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B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
I've always felt, as some expressed above, that Flaming Pie was haunted by Linda's illness. There's a streak of melancholy mixed with anxiety that runs through the whole album. It's obvious in Somedays (Somedays I cry/I cry for those who fear the worst), but present in lots of other spots. I clearly remember thinking, on maybe my 3rd or 4th listen -- enough that I was beginning to really be able to process the album -- "This man is scared to death that his wife is going to die."
______________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more Bruce. Maybe that is why Paul wrote a few of his greatest Solo songs under that duress. His lyrics on some of the songs are deeper and more meaningful. Somedays, Little Willow, Calico Skies and Beautiful Night would all be in my Top 20 of Greatest Macca Post Beatles' Songs. Only my opinion, but Flaming Pie to me is like Paul's Revolver with 5 or 6 fantastic, classic songs on it. I'm a little anxious myself this morning. Going in to have what they call MOHS Surgery on my right ear for Skin Cancer. They say it is "Passive" but I'm still anxious nevertheless. Hopefully, I'll be reporting back here later today with good and smooth results.
"I'm a little anxious myself this morning. Going in to have what they call MOHS Surgery on my right ear for Skin Cancer. They say it is "Passive" but I'm still anxious nevertheless. Hopefully, I'll be reporting back here later today with good and smooth results." BJ, hope it goes well and my thoughts will be with you. I had skin cancer (back) several years ago and thankfully it was stage 2. Go for yearly check, so far so good. Hang in there !!
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I've already spoken to BJ about this via email and am thinking about you buddy!
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Thanks to everyone for your best wishes (MOHS surgery on my ear) I'm already home and it went quite smoothly. The worse part was the needle to numb the area around the ear and that wasn't that bad. The nurse did a great job with that because I never felt a thing once the Doctor started actually working on the ear (basal variety of cancer). As I said, whatever the Doctor was doing, it did not hurt. No sharp pains just some pulling/pushing movement. After he came back a 2nd time to continue, that was it. The nurse came in shortly after and said that was it and they feel they got it all. All told , I was only in from about 8:30 to 11:00. Sometimes the MOHS procedures can last a full day so I feel very lucky and relieved. As I got back in my car...of course I have a Paul McCartney CD on. The song playing was Good Times Coming / Feel the Sun. Somewhat ironic...I definitely felt good like the mood of the song but I definitely need to be careful when I'm "in the sun". Thanks again to everyone and I'm happy to get back to talking all things Macca.
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One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
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So glad to hear your surgery went well, BJ! Hope things continue to go smoothly.
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Hey BJ I've had FOUR Mohs surgeries. Nose, two shoulders, and shin. No big deal. You will be fine. Now, back to Mc Cartney. I was pretty disappointed with Chaos; IMO it has several flaws. I absolutely loved MAF and New; probably because I'm a huge Wings fan and these lp's really had that Wings sound. Anyway, get well so we can continue our dialog!
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B J Conlee:
One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
I understand your point that while CHAOS may be consistently better than an album like FP but I disagree that the highlights of CHAOS are not as good as the highlights on the other three albums you mentioned. I think "How Kind Of You", "Promise To You Girl", "Riding To Vanity Fair" and "Too Much Rain" are as good or better than anything on "Tug Of War", "MAF" or "Flaming Pie".
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yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
I understand your point that while CHAOS may be consistently better than an album like FP but I disagree that the highlights of CHAOS are not as good as the highlights on the other three albums you mentioned. I think "How Kind Of You", "Promise To You Girl", "Riding To Vanity Fair" and "Too Much Rain" are as good or better than anything on "Tug Of War", "MAF" or "Flaming Pie".
____________________________________________________ Yankeefan. This is like trying to say who was better...Mantle or Mays. They were both GREAT! One thing where we definitely agree...In all those years where Paul was touring heavily (from 2002 on) and where his voice was still good to great, he skipped over so many terrific Solo songs in favor of playing the same Beatle songs time and time again. As I said, it was just so easy for him to go that route. Unfortunately so many people who like music (and even liked the Beatles a lot) don't know his Solo stuff to a huge degree. Not playing a song like Promise to You Girl is just criminal. If I was grading Chaos tracks, I would probably have Jenny Wren and This Never Happened Before at 10's and the ones you mentioned at 9's or 9.5 They are still all terrific songs. Again, we're back to trying to say who was better...Mantle, Mays, Williams etc. When you look at Paul's Beatle career, I think he was judged fairly because the Beatles were (and rightfully so) put on the highest pedestal. Everyone knows Paul's greatest Beatle songs...Yesterday, Here There & Everywhere, Let It Be, Long & Winding Road, Get Back, For No One. I Will etc. etc. There are certain Paul Solo songs that I put on that level. Besides Maybe I'm Amazed and Band on the Run, I would include Wanderlust, Tug of War, Take It Away, Little Willow, Calico Skies, Beautiful Night, Put It There, Jenny Wren, End of the End and surely a few others that I'm missing. I just think that Tug of War and Flaming Pie had a few more of those special songs than his other albums. Then again, we're trying to compare Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio, Williams etc. They are all great!
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Glad to see that this album was well represented on Pure McCartney - as it should be. Should have included Somedays
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Bruce M.:
So glad to hear your surgery went well, BJ! Hope things continue to go smoothly.
Thanks Bruce. I have to go back today where the Doctor has to close the wound permanently. The fact that he didn't have to go too deep is a big plus I hope. Got me thinking about the old expression...those were the good old days! When it comes to medicine, those weren't the good old days. Can you imagine a 100 years ago when they didn't have the local anesthesia that they have today. Nancy knows more about that than the rest of us. Anyway, I'm a woos (whatever the word is) so thank God I was born in the modern era. No wonder people became addicted to alcohol. That's all they had in those days. Once I got that shot, I ddn't feel a thing thank God. It's certainly more fun talking "all things Beatles".
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rich n:
Glad to see that this album was well represented on Pure McCartney - as it should be. Should have included Somedays
______________________________________________________ Rich n, You are so right about Somedays. I also can't believe that Young Boy was not included on Pure McCartney. I would have put both songs on that compilation actually ahead of Song We Were Singing and Great Day. The latter songs are good but more "album cuts" in my opinion. As I mentioned a while back...if Young Boy had come out in the mid 70's it might had been a #1 single. It kind of sounded like an "Eagles" song at a time when the Eagles were soaring on the charts.
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B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
So glad to hear your surgery went well, BJ! Hope things continue to go smoothly.
Thanks Bruce. I have to go back today where the Doctor has to close the wound permanently. The fact that he didn't have to go too deep is a big plus I hope. Got me thinking about the old expression...those were the good old days! When it comes to medicine, those weren't the good old days. Can you imagine a 100 years ago when they didn't have the local anesthesia that they have today. Nancy knows more about that than the rest of us. Anyway, I'm a woos (whatever the word is) so thank God I was born in the modern era. No wonder people became addicted to alcohol. That's all they had in those days. Once I got that shot, I ddn't feel a thing thank God. It's certainly more fun talking "all things Beatles".
I believe the term is "wuss!" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wuss Some info on local anesthesia you might find interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19488537
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B J Conlee:
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
I understand your point that while CHAOS may be consistently better than an album like FP but I disagree that the highlights of CHAOS are not as good as the highlights on the other three albums you mentioned. I think "How Kind Of You", "Promise To You Girl", "Riding To Vanity Fair" and "Too Much Rain" are as good or better than anything on "Tug Of War", "MAF" or "Flaming Pie".
____________________________________________________ Yankeefan. This is like trying to say who was better...Mantle or Mays. They were both GREAT! One thing where we definitely agree...In all those years where Paul was touring heavily (from 2002 on) and where his voice was still good to great, he skipped over so many terrific Solo songs in favor of playing the same Beatle songs time and time again. As I said, it was just so easy for him to go that route. Unfortunately so many people who like music (and even liked the Beatles a lot) don't know his Solo stuff to a huge degree. Not playing a song like Promise to You Girl is just criminal. If I was grading Chaos tracks, I would probably have Jenny Wren and This Never Happened Before at 10's and the ones you mentioned at 9's or 9.5 They are still all terrific songs. Again, we're back to trying to say who was better...Mantle, Mays, Williams etc. When you look at Paul's Beatle career, I think he was judged fairly because the Beatles were (and rightfully so) put on the highest pedestal. Everyone knows Paul's greatest Beatle songs...Yesterday, Here There & Everywhere, Let It Be, Long & Winding Road, Get Back, For No One. I Will etc. etc. There are certain Paul Solo songs that I put on that level. Besides Maybe I'm Amazed and Band on the Run, I would include Wanderlust, Tug of War, Take It Away, Little Willow, Calico Skies, Beautiful Night, Put It There, Jenny Wren, End of the End and surely a few others that I'm missing. I just think that Tug of War and Flaming Pie had a few more of those special songs than his other albums. Then again, we're trying to compare Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio, Williams etc. They are all great!
Obviously by my name on this board it is obvious I was a big time Mickey Mantle fan but like you said Willie Mays was great also - lol. My greatest frustration as a McCartney fan is that all the great songs you mentioned with the exception of "Maybe I'm Amazed" and BOTR will never get the recognition they deserve. The general music fan will basically think that his career for the most part ended around 1980. What gets me is that his latest recordings from 2001 to present have been very well received by the critics. I wish these same critics would have mentioned in concert reviews they wish he would play more of his solo catalog.
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yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
I understand your point that while CHAOS may be consistently better than an album like FP but I disagree that the highlights of CHAOS are not as good as the highlights on the other three albums you mentioned. I think "How Kind Of You", "Promise To You Girl", "Riding To Vanity Fair" and "Too Much Rain" are as good or better than anything on "Tug Of War", "MAF" or "Flaming Pie".
____________________________________________________ Yankeefan. This is like trying to say who was better...Mantle or Mays. They were both GREAT! One thing where we definitely agree...In all those years where Paul was touring heavily (from 2002 on) and where his voice was still good to great, he skipped over so many terrific Solo songs in favor of playing the same Beatle songs time and time again. As I said, it was just so easy for him to go that route. Unfortunately so many people who like music (and even liked the Beatles a lot) don't know his Solo stuff to a huge degree. Not playing a song like Promise to You Girl is just criminal. If I was grading Chaos tracks, I would probably have Jenny Wren and This Never Happened Before at 10's and the ones you mentioned at 9's or 9.5 They are still all terrific songs. Again, we're back to trying to say who was better...Mantle, Mays, Williams etc. When you look at Paul's Beatle career, I think he was judged fairly because the Beatles were (and rightfully so) put on the highest pedestal. Everyone knows Paul's greatest Beatle songs...Yesterday, Here There & Everywhere, Let It Be, Long & Winding Road, Get Back, For No One. I Will etc. etc. There are certain Paul Solo songs that I put on that level. Besides Maybe I'm Amazed and Band on the Run, I would include Wanderlust, Tug of War, Take It Away, Little Willow, Calico Skies, Beautiful Night, Put It There, Jenny Wren, End of the End and surely a few others that I'm missing. I just think that Tug of War and Flaming Pie had a few more of those special songs than his other albums. Then again, we're trying to compare Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio, Williams etc. They are all great!
*confused* You didn't reply anything.
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rich n:
Glad to see that this album was well represented on Pure McCartney - as it should be. Should have included Somedays
Worst thing about "Pure McCartney" was there were no songs from FITD which is almost criminal IMO.
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Nancy R:
B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
So glad to hear your surgery went well, BJ! Hope things continue to go smoothly.
Thanks Bruce. I have to go back today where the Doctor has to close the wound permanently. The fact that he didn't have to go too deep is a big plus I hope. Got me thinking about the old expression...those were the good old days! When it comes to medicine, those weren't the good old days. Can you imagine a 100 years ago when they didn't have the local anesthesia that they have today. Nancy knows more about that than the rest of us. Anyway, I'm a woos (whatever the word is) so thank God I was born in the modern era. No wonder people became addicted to alcohol. That's all they had in those days. Once I got that shot, I ddn't feel a thing thank God. It's certainly more fun talking "all things Beatles".
I believe the term is "wuss!" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wuss Some info on local anesthesia you might find interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19488537
_______________________________________________ Nancy, As usual, you are a fountain of knowledge. After my 2nd day of this MOHS surgery, I feel like I need some cocaine (see 2nd short article) I am definitely a "wuss" today but for good reason. After yesterday going so well, I thought today would be a breeze....NOT The "restoration and repair" phase was a whole lot worse. My first sign of the type of day I was going to have is when the nurse was taking off the bandage that was around my ear. Never knew that the ear was so sensitive to tape removal. Then the nurse gave me some more shots around the ear. It was probably good that I did;t think I would get shots today since I did sleep fairly well last night. Anyway, I toughened up and absorb my punishment like a man (In reality I am a wuss). Next the Doctor came in. He was nice and extremely thorough (Maybe too thorough!). Anyway to my extreme chagrin, he gave me a couple of more shots. To restore my ear area from the surgery, he took some of my skin from my face (where sideburns would grow) which I guess is why he needed to expand the local anesthesia. While that wasn't pleasant, at least I didn't have any pain while he was inserting the stitches. The only problem right now is when the anesthesia wore off. The pain is similar to the last time I had root canal when the novacaine wore off. Not good at all. Sorry to complain to my friends on this site, but I just felt the need to blow off some steam. But as I said yesterday, I really shouldn't complain. While I am in some pain now, the bigger picture is that they got the cancer out that could potentially cause a lot more problems down the road. I should be very thankful for that. The Nurses and Doctor could not have been nicer. If I was better with technology, I would send you a picture that one of the nurses took. That would be funny...I look like a nun. The only thing you see is my interior face. Everything else (head and ears) is covered by bandages. And no one would mistake me for a cute nun...that's for sure. I'm just hoping that I feel better by Monday.
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yankeefan7:
rich n:
Glad to see that this album was well represented on Pure McCartney - as it should be. Should have included Somedays
Worst thing about "Pure McCartney" was there were no songs from FITD which is almost criminal IMO.
I still have no clue what Marketing's strategy was with that...Let's leave some of Paul's best solo songs out from his ultimate greatest hits album - makes no sense!!