The ..2012.... Political thread
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appletart2:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Well glad the bridge is still there for you to use. Have at it. The world would be a nicer place. Mike you personally attack people who disagree with you and have been warned repeatedly to knock if off but your so irrogant and conceded you can't help yourself. You have personally done more to get Barack Obama elected with your white, male supremacy, all about me, additude and for that I thank you. Here just a few examples of what we all lost with passing of the Patriot Act. A act the 90% of congress never even read when they passed it into law. Its illegal now to yell out where a Politician is speaking in public and they can arrested you for doing this and its now a Felony. Government no longer respects FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Those who worked for NSA are quiting due to Bush's disregards for our privacy rights. They were spying and easy dropping on private citizen and who knows who on this board might of been one. No I not willing to give up my freedom for a paranoid like you who believes there all out to get us. They also suspended Habeas corpus under the PA. I lost the right to a fair trail. If falsely charged with being a terrorist they now have the right to arrest me, charge me with terrorism, take me off to a prison without disclosing where and tell know one where you been taken and for what your being charged with. I'm thinking this could be abused.
: Another change in law due to this act is now if you lie to a cop its a felony. Your a young kid. You get pulled over by a cop and freak out and lie to the cop and give him a false name. You have now committed a felony and will never be able to vote in this country again after you serve your jail time. The true consequence of this law can be so abused by government its really quite scary. I don't live in Nazi Germany and this Act is something you would expect to be drafted there. Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin would turn in his grave knowing they abused the word Patriot in such a act that is so not a act of patriotism. Oh one last thing Mike, Bill O'Reilly is a dick with ears
A highlighted in red personal insults from your post. Act like an adult you'll be treated like one. I don't know why you brought O'Reilly into this, you must be getting real desperate. When you initiate a post to me with personal insults directed to me you're gonna get the same right back. On your previous post you told me to get a clue and you said I was brainwashed. So, if you're gonna act like shithead I will treat you like a shithead. Now to the contents of your deranged post: This thread is 137 pages long go through it and show me where I was unprovoked and yet I initiated personal attacks at someone. As far as being warned by mods. You have no idea what, if anything, has been said. You should concern yourself with your own warnings because you initiate insults to a lot of people who aren't far left wing radicals. The Brooklyn Bridge is still standing because of the Patriot Act, not that you would care. If Clinton put through the Patriot Act the WTC would still be standing, again, not that you would care. 3,000+ would not have died that day, not that you care. If 90% didn't read it would that include Biden? What about Obama? I know it's before his time. It came out when Obama was scheduling pta meetings to prepare him for the presidency. Why did Obama sign on to extend FISA? Who are you gonna blame for that? Rush Limbaugh? Bill O'Reilly? The NSA has no time to listen in on 300 million calls every minute. They don't even have the technology or manpower. So if you're making dinner plans on the phone and you think the NSA is listening in, find the nearest hospital and have yourself checked in. Dems made the same complaint about innocent people being tapped, but they can't produce on victim in a country of 300 million. What were you arrested for that caused you to lose the right to a fair trial? American citizens are tried in criminal court. Are you here illegally? If you get pulled over by a cop the first thing he asks for is your drivers license. If you lie and give a fake license or no license at all and give a fake name you should be locked up. Cops have better things to do than to play games with criminals. There is a brutally high murder rate in Obama's state senate district where he was an 'organizer'. Obama did nothing about it. Cops could have done more if their hands weren't tied by race baiting leeches like Obama. You're over reading into Ben Franklin's security/liberty quote. The key modifiers are "esential" and "temporary". No one should give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a LITTLE TEMPORARY SAFETY. Get it? Ben Franklin's quote has no bearing on anything involving terrorists today. Do you think Ben Franklin would be more concerned about the rights of terrorists who killed 3,000+ innocent people in the U.S. than the rights of those still under target? Leftists always complain about losing rights, invasion of privacy etc... Where is the outrage over Joe the plumber? Democratic operatives employed by the state of Ohio illegally looked up his personal information from tax records, child support records, unemployment insurance records and the media published it all. Where's the outrage? He asked Obama a fair and reasonable question and Obama gives a dumb answer about spreading the wealth around and now the media and Democratic operatives want to destroy this man. His dumb answer may cost him the presidency. We know more about Joe the plumber than we know about Obama. And what we know about Obama is not good. If he applied for a job as a janitor at the Pentagon he would fail the background check and not get security clearance.
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SurSteven:
Mikemc:
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate?
Why are you equally as obnoxious and ...1/4th as aware?
You shouldn't take my words out of context. Shame on you.
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Hold The Presses The Cost Of Obama's Attire - suits, shoes, & ties released Nah, that only happens when the news media is truly "fair & balanced" So they pic on Sara Palin's attire cost ... To cover up bigger, more expensive Obama pork barrel campaign spending (let's see how we can distract the public from asking or thinking the same about Obama).
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Friday, October 31, 2008 Obama spent nearly $700,000 for stage, lights in Berlin
Jerry Seper UPDATE: Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama paid a German company nearly $700,000 for staging, sound and lighting services at the time he delivered a speech this past summer in Berlin and declared himself a "citizen" of both the U.S. and the world. Billed as a highlight of Mr. Obama's July trip to Europe, the speech -- delivered before hundreds of thousands of people in front of the historic Victory Column in Tiergarten -- was organized by the Berlin-based company Mediapool, opening much like a rock concert, with warm-up performances from the band Reamonn and reggae singer Patrice. The German company, whose Web page says it specializes in theater and event management, is listed as a disbursement recipient on Mr. Obama's most recent campaign expenditures report, filed Thursday with the Federal Election Commission. The company prominently displays pictures of the Obama speech and rally on its marketing pages and lists the event at the top of its projects page. RELATED STORIES: ? 3 papers for McCain kicked off Obama press jet ? Poll: Media lacks public trust on election reports The company was paid $667,082 by the Obama campaign in three disbursements in July and August, according to the FEC records. The campaign also paid $9,018 to the limousine service Bero Berlin, the records show. The disclosures come at a time of giant campaign budgets and massive spending by both Democrats and Republicans. Republican vice presidential nominee Gov. Sarah Palin's maverick image as a moose-hunting "hockey mom" took a hit with disclosures that the Republican National Committee had spent $75,062 at high-end department store Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis and $41,850 in St. Louis in early September on her wardrobe, along with $4,100 for makeup and hair consulting. About one-third of the Alaska governor's purchased clothes have since been returned. At the time of the wardrobe disclosures, Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro noted that neither the campaign nor the Democratic National Committee had paid for the wardrobes of Michelle or Barack Obama. Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said it "should come as no surprise" that the events Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain have participated in over the past two years cost a lot of money to produce. "But given that the executive editor of The Washington Times attacked our campaign this morning with talking points ripped from our opponent's playbook, we doubt that it will investigate the hundreds of thousands of dollars the McCain campaign spent on fair complexes, opera houses, clubs, aquariums and casinos around the country," he said. Mr. LaBolt's comments were in response to a statement Friday by Executive Editor John Solomon after The Times was kicked off Mr. Obama's press plane in the final days of the election. "This feels like the journalistic equivalent of redistributing the wealth," Mr. Solomon's statement said. "We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars covering Senator Obama's campaign, traveling on his plane, and taking our turn in the reporters' pool, only to have our seat given away to someone else in the last days of the campaign." Also dropped were the New York Post and Dallas Morning News. All three newspapers have endorsed Mr. McCain. McCain spokesman Brian Rogers, speaking on the Berlin expenditures, said, "Clearly, being the biggest celebrity in the world doesn't come cheap." During the Berlin speech, Mr. Obama spoke repeatedly of the things "we" must do on terrorism, the environment and other global issues. The speech was filled with references to politics, from acknowledging American shortcomings to urging Germany to recommit to NATO success in Afghanistan. "I speak to you not as a candidate for president, but as ... a proud citizen of the United States and a fellow citizen of the world," he told the crowd, which had gathered not far from where the Berlin Wall once divided the city. Officials estimated that the crowd was one of the largest in Berlin's history. Estimates ranged from the campaign's guess of 200,000 to as many as 500,000 from the German Embassy in Washington. The Obama campaign carefully crafted the event, which was helped by perfect weather, and said the footage might be seen in a political ad. Obama fans distributed a photo of the massive crowd next to a photo of a remarkably similar crowd at the 1963 March on Washington. The reception from the Berlin crowd was as rapturous as the campaign could have hoped. During the speech, one fan held a sign reading, "Barack for Kanzler," the German word for "chancellor," and dozens of Europeans in the crowd said they could not wait to see President Bush leave office. About 700 Berlin police officers reportedly were assigned to the event, which also needed a larger-than-usual force of U.S. Secret Service agents. Mr. Obama received raucous applause for saying the future meant "finally bringing this war to a close" in Iraq, but the loudest cheers erupted when he talked about climate change and railed against genocide. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/31/obama-spent-nearly-700000-for-stage-lights-in-berl/
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Brother's Keeper Obama is a typical hypocritical Democrat; he wants to help everybody...with YOUR MONEY. This battle of ideologies comes down to a very simple question; Do YOU want to be in charge of how YOU spend YOUR money OR should you allow the government to TAKE YOUR money and decide how THEY want to spend YOUR money. I'd rather decide myself, thank you. Obama has a very generous rhetoric. In his greek column speech in Denver at the convention, he quoted the passage in the Bible that refers to being our brother's keeper. YET, he has a half-brother living in a hut in Kenya on $20 per year and a recently discovered Aunt (who he refers to affectionately in one of his books) living in a Boston slum for the past 5 years. I don't see any evidence that the wealthy Obama family has done anything to help his own family. I guess when Obama refers to being "our" brother's keeper, he means government. Oh, and I wonder if Obama knew that his Aunt has been living in the country ILLEGALLY!
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Our Republican dominated Congress and Senate voted themselves 3 raises in a 10 year period while refusing to raise minimum wage. They make well over a $150,000 dollars a year. It wasn't until 2 years ago, when the Democrats regained power, that minimum wage was raised. Obama should be using the term..."Un" redistribute the wealth...as the currently distributed wealth has slowly made the rich richer and the low paid workers poorer over the last few decades...which stagnates the economy. It is why we have these economic problems after republican and conservative philosophies have been in power for a few years. Money has to keep moving for the economy to work efficiently and will not when some people want to hoard and sit on piles of it!
Some people will make more money...and should.......while some people will make less money...and should.......BUT NOT...to such divided extremes!
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Mikemc:
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else.
All that you have stated and has been re-quoted on the last two pages of this thread are excellent points especially this statement. This is where I see the divide in our country over the current Democratic philosophy and the Republican philosophy. My biological father came from a communist country the Soviet Union therefore I am first generation. On my mother's side, her father immigrated here from Sweden thus making me second generation on this side of the family. My step father (who was a central figure in my upbringing) his parent's immigrated from Scotland. I know too well what happens to people of a heavily Socialized society and a communist society because I was reminded on a daily basis. I was taught the only handout is the one at the end of your arm. I was taught self-reliance. Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
It was also stressed that the more control you give over to the government, the less freedoms people have. Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
This is why my family came to this country because they valued the basic principles of America and the freedom she offered to them. Both sides of my family left everything behind to come to this country in hopes of a better life for the next generation. I think these ideals of why our ancestors came to America have been lost by not only my generation but especially subsequent generations. The first hand knowledge and to quote Thomson: " A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us." My family knows of these dangers first hand. And although the core philosophy of Socialism albeit an altruistic one, our founding fathers knew of it's dangers and wisely framed our Constitution to reflect a freer society ensuring it's future generations would not be shackled by a government controlled society. Because they knew the more power you hand over to the government, the more individual freedoms you relinquish. The promises Obama is making in his well delivered speeches (written by David Axlerod) sound great but at what cost? And I am not talking about monetary. And if Socialism is so great, then why are so many people from Socialized countrys trying to immigrate here? Once again Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
And why did Lincoln make this speech? Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
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Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over
, and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/ Mccain is very popular in Macedonia, and er, er....thats about it really
Stop press ! a bloke likes him in Lesotho
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moggy:
Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over
, and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Both the Butler Review and the Senate Select Committee on Pre War Iraq Intelligence (SSCI) point to other efforts by Saddam to purchase uranium, most notably from the Democratic Republic of the Congo . The Butler Review states in 2002 the CIA 'agreed that there was evidence that [uranium from Africa] had been sought.' In the run?up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents. This then was the context in which Ambassador Joe Wilson went to Niger in February of 2002. Based on multiple sources and the best judgement of the CIA, Saddam Hussein was trying purchase uranium. Since there were no working commercial nuclear reactors in all of Iraq, his interest could only be based on his desire to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program. There was no 'fixing' of intelligence or 'shaping' intelligence to fit some preconceived agenda. Despite UN resolutions and sanctions, Saddam was looking to build the bomb.
To read full article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/about_that_500_tons_of_yellow.html Imagine how many more lives would have been lost if Saddam would have had "his bomb"? Didn't he gas his own people? From the Kurdish Museum:
Each one of these lights represents one of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds murdered in the genocidal Anfal campaign. A river of twinkling lights lines the ceiling. Each represents one of the five thousand villages destroyed by Saddam Hussein.
Past the hallway of mirrors and light is a small room made up to look like a traditional Kurdish home. Houses like these barely exist in the countryside anymore. Saddam Hussein destroyed most of them. The rural part of the country is now eerily empty of people.
Did you know? During the Kurdish uprising after the 1991 Gulf War, almost every last person fled to the mountains. The cities were almost completely emptied of people. Imagine living your life like that. Everyone over the age of 20 remembers it vividly.
The Peshmerga fled to the mountains as well. They used those mountains as bases for their military operations against the Saddam regime. One picture stood out in particular for me. Below you can see a man who was shot dead while crossing one of the main streets. As it happens, the man is lying directly in front of my hotel.
(This picture I did not upload but I think you can imagine what it looks like)
Some rooms in the museum don?t have pictures at all. Instead they show the instruments and the methods of torture. In one room, the so-called ?Washington Room,? men and women had hot electric irons pressed into their skin. Dozens of people were packed into single caged cells. This one, pictured below, needed to have blood scrubbed off the walls before it could be opened to visitors.
(Again I have refrained from uploading these pictures)
The hardest thing to see was the cell used to hold children before they were murdered. My translator Alan read some of the messages carved into the wall. ?I was ten years old. But they changed my age to 18 for execution.?
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001068.html Go to the museum and now ask yourself whether you are on the left or right in political views, do you still not think that this man, Hussein who was actively obtaining yellow cake aka uranium was NOT capable of starting WWlll? Do you not remember what was uncovered in Iraq regarding the torture chambers? Did Hussein not invade Kuwait? Granted there are indescribable injustices throughout the world....such as Rowanda and currently Darfur to only name a few of the hundreds. But Hussien's murderous regime was actively obtaining uranium and you tell me the world was not worried of Hussein's nuclear capabilities? Kind of makes alot of the posting here with regards to us yanks going socialist or not a bit miniscual in comparison. I reiterate my previous post and the dangers and or loss of freedoms of too much power of any government over it's citizens.
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Yes, just a few days left of the war mongers and the bu$h doctrine(if you don't know what that is ask Palin
) Tuesday night this is what it will be like all over the US :
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mustangsally10:
Yes, just a few days left of the war mongers and the bu$h doctrine(if you don't know what that is ask Palin
) Tuesday night this is what it will be like all over the US :
Yes once again when someone makes indisputable points in previous posts that the liberal factions can not dispute, rely on tired old talking points of bashing the current President and calling all those who do not agree with you 'war mongers'.
rather than having an intellectual discussion. Please tell moveon.org you need new lines
deKooningartist:
Mikemc:
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else.
All that you have stated and has been re-quoted on the last two pages of this thread are excellent points especially this statement. This is where I see the divide in our country over the current Democratic philosophy and the Republican philosophy. My biological father came from a communist country the Soviet Union therefore I am first generation. On my mother's side, her father immigrated here from Sweden thus making me second generation on this side of the family. My step father (who was a central figure in my upbringing) his parent's immigrated from Scotland. I know too well what happens to people of a heavily Socialized society and a communist society because I was reminded on a daily basis. I was taught the only handout is the one at the end of your arm. I was taught self-reliance. Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
It was also stressed that the more control you give over to the government, the less freedoms people have. Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
This is why my family came to this country because they valued the basic principles of America and the freedom she offered to them. Both sides of my family left everything behind to come to this country in hopes of a better life for the next generation. I think these ideals of why our ancestors came to America have been lost by not only my generation but especially subsequent generations. The first hand knowledge and to quote Thomson: " A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us." My family knows of these dangers first hand. And although the core philosophy of Socialism albeit an altruistic one, our founding fathers knew of it's dangers and wisely framed our Constitution to reflect a freer society ensuring it's future generations would not be shackled by a government controlled society. Because they knew the more power you hand over to the government, the more individual freedoms you relinquish. The promises Obama is making in his well delivered speeches (written by David Axlerod) sound great but at what cost? And I am not talking about monetary. And if Socialism is so great, then why are so many people from Socialized countrys trying to immigrate here? Once again Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
And why did Lincoln make this speech? Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
deKooningartist:
moggy:
Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over
, and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Both the Butler Review and the Senate Select Committee on Pre War Iraq Intelligence (SSCI) point to other efforts by Saddam to purchase uranium, most notably from the Democratic Republic of the Congo . The Butler Review states in 2002 the CIA 'agreed that there was evidence that [uranium from Africa] had been sought.' In the run?up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents. This then was the context in which Ambassador Joe Wilson went to Niger in February of 2002. Based on multiple sources and the best judgement of the CIA, Saddam Hussein was trying purchase uranium. Since there were no working commercial nuclear reactors in all of Iraq, his interest could only be based on his desire to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program. There was no 'fixing' of intelligence or 'shaping' intelligence to fit some preconceived agenda. Despite UN resolutions and sanctions, Saddam was looking to build the bomb.
To read full article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/about_that_500_tons_of_yellow.html Imagine how many more lives would have been lost if Saddam would have had "his bomb"? Didn't he gas his own people? From the Kurdish Museum:
Each one of these lights represents one of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds murdered in the genocidal Anfal campaign. A river of twinkling lights lines the ceiling. Each represents one of the five thousand villages destroyed by Saddam Hussein.
Past the hallway of mirrors and light is a small room made up to look like a traditional Kurdish home. Houses like these barely exist in the countryside anymore. Saddam Hussein destroyed most of them. The rural part of the country is now eerily empty of people.
Did you know? During the Kurdish uprising after the 1991 Gulf War, almost every last person fled to the mountains. The cities were almost completely emptied of people. Imagine living your life like that. Everyone over the age of 20 remembers it vividly.
The Peshmerga fled to the mountains as well. They used those mountains as bases for their military operations against the Saddam regime. One picture stood out in particular for me. Below you can see a man who was shot dead while crossing one of the main streets. As it happens, the man is lying directly in front of my hotel.
(This picture I did not upload but I think you can imagine what it looks like)
Some rooms in the museum don?t have pictures at all. Instead they show the instruments and the methods of torture. In one room, the so-called ?Washington Room,? men and women had hot electric irons pressed into their skin. Dozens of people were packed into single caged cells. This one, pictured below, needed to have blood scrubbed off the walls before it could be opened to visitors.
(Again I have refrained from uploading these pictures)
The hardest thing to see was the cell used to hold children before they were murdered. My translator Alan read some of the messages carved into the wall. ?I was ten years old. But they changed my age to 18 for execution.?
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001068.html Go to the museum and now ask yourself whether you are on the left or right in political views, do you still not think that this man, Hussein who was actively obtaining yellow cake aka uranium was NOT capable of starting WWlll? Do you not remember what was uncovered in Iraq regarding the torture chambers? Did Hussein not invade Kuwait? Granted there are indescribable injustices throughout the world....such as Rowanda and currently Darfur to only name a few of the hundreds. But Hussien's murderous regime was actively obtaining uranium and you tell me the world was not worried of Hussein's nuclear capabilities? Kind of makes alot of the posting here with regards to us yanks going socialist or not a bit miniscual in comparison. I reiterate my previous post and the dangers and or loss of freedoms of too much power of any government over it's citizens.
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Bush seems to be the whipping boy du jour.
Let's rate the American Presidents by the challenges faced during their term(s) of office. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman...you choose others if you like. What tests the mettle of a President ? Which endured the greatest hardships ? This exercise might better inform our current choice.
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LCH:
Bush seems to be the whipping boy du jour.
Let's rate the American Presidents by the challenges faced during their term(s) of office. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman...you choose others if you like. What tests the mettle of a President ? Which endured the greatest hardships ? This exercise might better inform our current choice.
I think that's a great idea
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That's ONE vote. The candidates will surely need more.
Ok. Washington began the American Democracy as we know it. The revolution against England (sorry Paul !). America came VERY close to losing its independence. Washington lost more battles than he won. He set a very important precedent by declining a third term. Abraham Lincoln presided over the most divisive debate America has ever seen. Now we have a black Presidential candidate. Reconstruction of a war-torn South was a daunting task. I await further replies. I don't wish to be a blabber-mouth.
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LCH:
Bush seems to be the whipping boy du jour.
Let's rate the American Presidents by the challenges faced during their term(s) of office. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman...you choose others if you like. What tests the mettle of a President ? Which endured the greatest hardships ? This exercise might better inform our current choice.
Another vote -- blab away
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mustangsally10:
Yes, just a few days left of the war mongers and the bu$h doctrine(if you don't know what that is ask Palin
) Tuesday night this is what it will be like all over the US :
Hate to rain on the parade but nothing changes after tuesday....Bush remains in office until January 20, 2009. Can't wait to see what happens should Obama win and he can't pull the rabbits out of the hat as he suggested.
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Mikemc:
Mikemc quotes in blue. [quote="jaipur" in Bold[ b]Sounds like you're basing this on a false assumption....that all of us will be "physically or mentally abled"....not necessarily true....then what? Hi Jaipur, No way will all of us be physically and/or mentally abled all our lives especially as we age. I wouldn't even think like that. There was always and will always be people who are physically and/or mentally disabled and the government should make available all resources to help such people. But the government is so screwed up. My friends mother is 101 and went into a nursing home last year after falling and breaking her hip. Besides medicare she had medicaid. At 99 a caseworker did a home visit to assess her needs. Her son told the caseworker she needs 24 hour round the clock care at home. NO GOOD. Medicaid would only pay for 12 hours even though the caseworker conceded she needs to be watched all the time but will probably lose her job if she approves 24/7 care. I guess she has quota like traffic agents and cops. That's government health care with rationing. Now she's in a home getting care not as good as when someone was at home with her. It's also costing medicaid over $10k a month. The other and more logical way would be a home care attendant around the clock for less than $6,500 a month. Hey Mike, good to see you again. I wouldn't say the experience you described is atypical as Medicaid is managed differently depending on what state you're in. Up here Medicaid does support care in the home whenever possible, as you point out, it's less costly. Medicaid here also supports PCA (personal care attendants) and also has a program for the elderly that coordinates things. [/b [ Part of it was she was too arrogant and would not reach consensus with the legislators....my way, or no way is not the way to get it done. Also, the Hillary today appears to be different that the Hillary in 1993 or so.
She also held meetings behind closed doors shutting out all but the few she trusted. It angered and insulted a lot of Washington insiders. She was the presidents wife and she wasn't appointed to a cabinet position or elected to any office and she was gonna take control of 1/5 of our economy exempting the executive and legislative branches who would retain the best care. One law for them and another law for us. It was a role unfamilar to Washington....a first lady involved in policy. She didn't play her position well at all given the circumstances...agree with you there. Part of the argument though is the R&D is done here (thus, we pay the higher costs), while other countries get the benefits (lower costs).... Yes, absolutely. It takes years to recoup the hundreds of millions to bring a single drug to market, then overseas drug companies make counterfeits often times very poor counterfeits. Not in all cases though....several drug companies in Switzerland are quite reputable.....and some of us take their drugs as well. The problem with the US drug companies, as I see it, is that they have a captive market that they are over exploiting. Recently, a study was released saying diabetes is costing more than it did seven years ago that is attributable to higher costing drugs. You don't see the drug companies putting out a "generic" form of insulin as they apparently see no reason to reduce a money maker. It already takes awhile to get an appointment because there are fewer primary care physicians. The doctors we get are educated here. My state has many teaching hospitals, thus our state costs for health care are the highest in the world.....repeat, highest in the world. Health care is not rationed here, there is private sector insurance along with the public sector, and sometimes a combination, private sector (Blue Cross) with a portion subsidized by government. Of course the individual chooses what they want....sounds like a market doesn't it?
97% of our citizens are now covered by health insurance, the key to open the door to care...no other state is higher. Google it. Now we work on costs, not an easy thing.:wink: I don't doubt the high cost in Massachusetts. I've been using the same doctor for over 20 years and I always get a same day appointment. If I'm referred to a specialist it usually takes two to three weeks. At such times as needed my doctor will call and get an expedite. When I needed an mri last month the appointment took one day. Same here...except for me I don't need a referral to see a specialist....I can see anyone I damn well like.
Many people can get there....what about the rest? Working hard doesn't get everyone where they need to be. The working hard part isn't the problem. It's working hard for such a long time knowing it's gonna take quite a bit of time after that to slowly reap the rewards. Mon to Fri he was going from 6am to 11pm and spent most weekends at the library. There was no internet resources at his disposal. Me personally, I wouldn't have been up for such a commitment. I know just how far I would be willing to go and any lost opportunities is of my own doing. I can't blame anyone else for not having gotten this or that. Yes all of us make choices and know what moves us. There are others though where their efforts are thwarted and blame for that is reasonable. What a person does and how they handle that varies....some rise above it, some don't. My observation is that there are many that do what they can do: get educated, work hard, et al, yet are thwarted in achieving what is necessary, not because they're lazy, stupid...I've seen many people in this predicament and they are loathe to ask anyone, let alone government for help....perhaps you need to tell them: "tough, you get squat"?? I don't know....
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else. It was possible back then for those with little education....today it's very different. As I mentioned to someone else, you can work hard, bust your ass, and not get to where you need to be. It's more complicated going from point a to point b today then it was back then unfortunately.
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Do you think that the human race will ever get it's shit together?
god bless this board!
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We seem to be going over old ground here.....the US and UK funding and backing saddam http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html Yes it is a indisputable point that saddam gassed his own people......but you tend to leave the indisputable points at that stage. Delve further into most attrocities , and trouble and the letters US and GB will soon crop up. Many people say ( including myself) that it is our leaders , not the people , who start wars. After bush winning 2 elections and blair 3, if mccain wins, this arguement no longer holds water......the public get what the public want.
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i think the french girl with the statue of liberty is rather cute...we used to fight for noble causes... http://www.iowanationalguard.com/Museum/CDStory/CDstory/LibertyStatuepage.htm ...note the reference to Baker St. and listen to the song Baker Street Blues by Gerry Rafferty