The ..2012.... Political thread
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deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Get a Grip...people are suffering because of the economic situation
I never said there was not. I am responding to your statements of Bush's evil bailout plan. Just a gentle reminder of what actually occured. People are suffering due to these idiots in congress. You are the one that started the finger pointing. Now you are calling foul play????
You still haven't read the link have you? Hint: Treasury Dept.
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deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Get a Grip...people are suffering because of the economic situation
I never said there was not. I am responding to your statements of Bush's evil bailout plan. Just a gentle reminder of what actually occured. People are suffering due to these idiots in congress. You are the one that started the finger pointing. Now you are calling foul play????
But we come to the same old point in democracy. Dems and Reps have approved the bailouts and continue... People are suffering due to these idiots in congress... and... people voted the same people ANYWAY... so who is complaining of the situation and voting again the same people? I mean, there's not a thing to solve, people wants these politicians and in democracy, majority rules, so why even criticize our politicians, they are the people's choice, majority backs them, so... as Bill says, and I think Churchill said, and I like the quote too, "Every country has the government they deserve". it's like... "...but we like them anyway"
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Now that Obama has been elected running the most expensive campaign in history, he is already breaking his promises saying that movement to alternative energy will be cost inefficient given the current financial situation... as if it changed over the past week from his campaigning. It seems CHANGE really was just a campaign slogan. It's not even 1 week and he is already pulling back. I wonder if he gets the Presidential overview of national security and starts to realize that he really didn't know what he was talking about. Congratulations to Obama on the campaign that got more stupid, uninformed people out to vote than ever with all that $650M cash. Here comes the New Deal part 2!
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mustangsally10:
deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Get a Grip...people are suffering because of the economic situation
I never said there was not. I am responding to your statements of Bush's evil bailout plan. Just a gentle reminder of what actually occured. People are suffering due to these idiots in congress. You are the one that started the finger pointing. Now you are calling foul play????
You still haven't read the link have you? Hint: Treasury Dept.
I am very informed on what occured. And the Democrats approved it. **And I was beyond appauled!!!!!!**I was commenting on your latest Bush bashing session. If it is so horrendous, then why did Pelosi and company agree to it? Bipartisanship has its place. But when you become so over zealous and so obsessive with hate directed towards one individual, you become blind to the larger picture and you become a contributor to the problem. That's why I won't participate in either party anymore. Pelosi, Reid and company haven't been shy about their hatred towards the Bush administration. So why did they stand with the President? This is an excellent article. There are problems on both sides of the isle. This comes from the Huffington Post! Totally not conservative
But the Congressional Democrats, who mostly despise Bush, are also mostly for the Bush plan. Sure, they made some cosmetic changes in the bailout proposal, but they have never wavered in their basic endorsement. So who's against the plan? It's Congressional Republicans who are getting in the way. They are the heroes of the hour. Although outnumbered, these brave Capitol Hill GOPers have stopped official Washington in its tracks. Why? Because the Democratic majority, supporting the bailout, doesn't actually dare to vote for it unless they know that most Republicans will vote for it, too. And that's because the Democrats fear that this bailout legislation is deeply unpopular with the country. So the only way that Democrats can vote for the bill and be safe this November is if Republicans also put their names on the legislative dotted line. Not a profile in courage for Democrats, of course, but it's smart practical politics for them to demand some "cover." But let's step back a minute. How did it come to pass that President Bush is siding with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi? What thought process led the administration to support a big-government bill that the Republican grassroots all despise? For their part, the Democrats are emerging as the new party of the rich, the party of Wall Street, the party that champions financiers at the expense of producers. For years now, the most affluent precincts in the country -- mostly on the two coasts -- have been solidly Democratic. And in 2008, the polls show that upper-income voters mostly support Barack Obama. And Obama, of course, guided by the likes of Robert Rubin, has been quietly supportive of the deal. Indeed, Obama personally epitomizes the Democrats' new political arrangement: He was raised mostly poor, then worked mostly with the poor, but now he is rich and works mostly with the rich -- his campaign is a well-financed corporation. Yet he has maintained his popularity with the poor. So it's understandable that the Democrats would want to take care of "their" people at the top. That's the revised Democratic model: The same old socialism for the poor, of course, in the form of the bureaucratic welfare state, and a new kind of socialism for the rich, in the form of this bailout. In addition, the Democrats have some sordid secrets to protect -- and Paulson & Co. are helping them keep hidden. Much of the overall financial crisis can be traced back to bad mortgages made to unqualified buyers at the behest of Democratic poverty advocates; it was a neat arrangement, poor Democrats got houses, as rich Democrats got richer by manipulating the financial paper. But the Bush administration, eager for a deal with the Democrats, has made it clear that it won't point fingers. For their part, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) are returning the favor by pushing the bill forward.
Oliver I think Picasso had it right. He use to hide his money under his mattress
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It's all relative! As, this link suggests...
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SurSteven:
It's all relative! As, this link suggests...
I loved it! On my biological father's side of the family, they were able to go all the way back to King Pepin. It was sort of cool to look at. Ya never know Mustang Sally, you may be a distant cousin of Bush
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deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Get a Grip...people are suffering because of the economic situation
I never said there was not. I am responding to your statements of Bush's evil bailout plan. Just a gentle reminder of what actually occured. People are suffering due to these idiots in congress. You are the one that started the finger pointing. Now you are calling foul play????
You still haven't read the link have you? Hint: Treasury Dept.
I am very informed on what occured. And the Democrats approved it. **And I was beyond appauled!!!!!!**I was commenting on your latest Bush bashing session. If it is so horrendous, then why did Pelosi and company agree to it? Bipartisanship has its place. But when you become so over zealous and so obsessive with hate directed towards one individual, you become blind to the larger picture and you become a contributor to the problem. That's why I won't participate in either party anymore. Pelosi, Reid and company haven't been shy about their hatred towards the Bush administration. So why did they stand with the President? This is an excellent article. There are problems on both sides of the isle. This comes from the Huffington Post! Totally not conservative
But the Congressional Democrats, who mostly despise Bush, are also mostly for the Bush plan. Sure, they made some cosmetic changes in the bailout proposal, but they have never wavered in their basic endorsement. So who's against the plan? It's Congressional Republicans who are getting in the way. They are the heroes of the hour. Although outnumbered, these brave Capitol Hill GOPers have stopped official Washington in its tracks. Why? Because the Democratic majority, supporting the bailout, doesn't actually dare to vote for it unless they know that most Republicans will vote for it, too. And that's because the Democrats fear that this bailout legislation is deeply unpopular with the country. So the only way that Democrats can vote for the bill and be safe this November is if Republicans also put their names on the legislative dotted line. Not a profile in courage for Democrats, of course, but it's smart practical politics for them to demand some "cover." But let's step back a minute. How did it come to pass that President Bush is siding with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi? What thought process led the administration to support a big-government bill that the Republican grassroots all despise? For their part, the Democrats are emerging as the new party of the rich, the party of Wall Street, the party that champions financiers at the expense of producers. For years now, the most affluent precincts in the country -- mostly on the two coasts -- have been solidly Democratic. And in 2008, the polls show that upper-income voters mostly support Barack Obama. And Obama, of course, guided by the likes of Robert Rubin, has been quietly supportive of the deal. Indeed, Obama personally epitomizes the Democrats' new political arrangement: He was raised mostly poor, then worked mostly with the poor, but now he is rich and works mostly with the rich -- his campaign is a well-financed corporation. Yet he has maintained his popularity with the poor. So it's understandable that the Democrats would want to take care of "their" people at the top. That's the revised Democratic model: The same old socialism for the poor, of course, in the form of the bureaucratic welfare state, and a new kind of socialism for the rich, in the form of this bailout. In addition, the Democrats have some sordid secrets to protect -- and Paulson & Co. are helping them keep hidden. Much of the overall financial crisis can be traced back to bad mortgages made to unqualified buyers at the behest of Democratic poverty advocates; it was a neat arrangement, poor Democrats got houses, as rich Democrats got richer by manipulating the financial paper. But the Bush administration, eager for a deal with the Democrats, has made it clear that it won't point fingers. For their part, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) are returning the favor by pushing the bill forward.
Oliver I think Picasso had it right. He use to hide his money under his mattress
yes, Picasso had it right, this is what governments do best
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deKooningartist:
SurSteven:
It's all relative! As, this link suggests...
I loved it! On my biological father's side of the family, they were able to go all the way back to King Pepin. It was sort of cool to look at. Ya never know Mustang Sally, you may be a distant cousin of Bush
Here have another serving SOUR GRAPES Juice drink recipes yield a single serving of 6 to 10 ounces. If sugar or honey is listed, add juice after juicing. 1 lime, peeled 2 cups red grapes Directions: process in blender, then serve _________________ update: I think the addition of 2 shots of vodka would be great with this and could help
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Ah come on, you can do better than that!!! MustangSally I'm disappointed. Oliver, Guernica is one of my all time favorite paintings
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mustangsally10:
deKooningartist:
SurSteven:
It's all relative! As, this link suggests...
I loved it! On my biological father's side of the family, they were able to go all the way back to King Pepin. It was sort of cool to look at. Ya never know Mustang Sally, you may be a distant cousin of Bush
Here have another serving SOUR GRAPES Juice drink recipes yield a single serving of 6 to 10 ounces. If sugar or honey is listed, add juice after juicing. 1 lime, peeled 2 cups red grapes Directions: process in blender, then serve _________________ update: I think the addition of 2 shots of vodka would be great with this and could help
I think it's time to break out the Q-tips...swab the mouths of everyone on the board...and do a " MAJOR "...DNA test!
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Bill:
jaipur:
Last time I looked, capital gains result from portfolios performing.....since they haven't been not sure if much is to be gained by raising taxes.....at least not right away.
Anyone who still had money in the stock market at the beginning of last week ought to be able to claim it as a charitable donation.
Two excellent points. If Obama raises capital gains taxes as he promised selling stocks now would more than likely result in a loss. But selling at a loss is a tax write-off. I would rather pay higher cap gains tax than to lose money altogether. There's something about our tax laws that has me baffled. I've seen tenants who rent commercial space for a store lose their business because the landlord wants to up the rent four fold. Then when the business shuts down the store is empty for up to two years, sometimes more. The landlord is never gonna get his 4x increase so how does it make sense for him to toss a tenant who always pays his rent on time, leave the place empty for a couple of years, then rent it again for the same rent he was getting???? : The loss/charitable contribution is sad because when people make less money for any reason it's the charities that suffer. The rich who donate the most will often cut back on charity as a way to protest higher taxes. My brother in law is president and coo of a fortune 500 company. He and another guy built it up by being "hands on". While he now makes more in two weeks than I ever earned in a full year I don't begrudge him because when he's not traveling around the world he puts in about 70 hours a week at the office and still brings home a ton of work. When they started and risked everything on a company that could have failed he was in the office from about 7am to 11pm six to seven days a week for the first few years. Now he's on the road for about 2 weeks out of each month. He has been for past dozen or so years. He'll fly overnight for 8 hours to London and go straight to meetings etc... all day. They have since merged with another company and acquired other small companies over the years. They employ about 1200 people. Quite often they attend charity black tie affairs that raises serious money. Also, my sis and b' in law for several years took families into their home for several weeks at a time because some charity they're involved with takes in sick/injured children from Central America in need of surgery and the doctors donate their time to operate for free and the hospitals donate their space and staff. That's the side of rich people we never hear about.
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And...then the rest of us will have more of an opportunity to donate to charity...? : : :
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deKooningartist:
Oliver, Guernica is one of my all time favorite paintings
One of my favs too
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The funny thing of the Obama effect and New Deal 2 is that the present paranoia is very probably going to turn for the oppossite in the long run... New Deal 1, besides the effects on economics, made the stocks markets rise after 3 years of falling. And that lasted decades. Roosevelt was elected president 4 times!. Here we talked about the USA cause is the country we all know, but in Europe they're doing or planning to do the same. bye, bye capitalism, welcome or welcome back welfare, capital-socialism, socio-capitalism, the hybrid model, social economy with a free market... it has a lot of names But this time there ain't be gonna 2 big superpowers with extreme capitalism and extreme socialism. Extreme Socialism failed by lack of freedom, motivation, creativity and extreme capitalism failed now and in the 1930's for greed, huge differences between the rich and the poor, financial crisis, spiral of consumism and ambition... It looks like the world is gonna refund the system, even the USA, China or Russia, who have been on the extreme sides of it all... Good luck to everyone. And God Bless This Mess.
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[quote="Mikemc"]
Bill:
jaipur:
Last time I looked, capital gains result from portfolios performing.....since they haven't been not sure if much is to be gained by raising taxes.....at least not right away.
Anyone who still had money in the stock market at the beginning of last week ought to be able to claim it as a charitable donation.
Two excellent points. If Obama raises capital gains taxes as he promised selling stocks now would more than likely result in a loss. But selling at a loss is a tax write-off. I would rather pay higher cap gains tax than to lose money altogether. There's something about our tax laws that has me baffled. I've seen tenants who rent commercial space for a store lose their business because the landlord wants to up the rent four fold. Then when the business shuts down the store is empty for up to two years, sometimes more. The landlord is never gonna get his 4x increase so how does it make sense for him to toss a tenant who always pays his rent on time, leave the place empty for a couple of years, then rent it again for the same rent he was getting???? : The loss/charitable contribution is sad because when people make less money for any reason it's the charities that suffer. The rich who donate the most will often cut back on charity as a way to protest higher taxes. My brother in law is president and coo of a fortune 500 company. He and another guy built it up by being "hands on". While he now makes more in two weeks than I ever earned in a full year I don't begrudge him because when he's not traveling around the world he puts in about 70 hours a week at the office and still brings home a ton of work. When they started and risked everything on a company that could have failed he was in the office from about 7am to 11pm six to seven days a week for the first few years. Now he's on the road for about 2 weeks out of each month. He has been for past dozen or so years. He'll fly overnight for 8 hours to London and go straight to meetings etc... all day. They have since merged with another company and acquired other small companies over the years. They employ about 1200 people. Quite often they attend charity black tie affairs that raises serious money. Also, my sis and b' in law for several years took families into their home for several weeks at a time because some charity they're involved with takes in sick/injured children from Central America in need of surgery and the doctors donate their time to operate for free and the hospitals donate their space and staff. That's the side of rich people we never hear about.[/quote) Very true. It's as if you we are looked down or are going to be punished for hard work. My husband and I worked physically hard to get what we have and yet we will be paying for some who could work but won't. This is a good story, Mike. It's NOT a 'sin' to be rich.
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[quote="mustangsally10"]
deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Here is more evidence of the bu$h administration quietly trying to give more taxpayers money to the banking industry
So the Democrats and President Elect Obama did not support the bailout??? Remember the Dems have the majority in Congress. I remember Pelosi, Reid and other top Dems standing behind Bush's plan and accusing the Republicans for not supporting the plan. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/deal_reached/index.htm?postversion=2008092513
....But shortly after 10 p.m., Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the lead House Democrat on the issue who had been in close talks with Paulson for days, accused Republicans of refusing to negotiate. "At this point, we have absolutely no participation or cooperation from House Republicans," Frank said
If you want to blame the Bush administration for the bailout plan, you have to include the congress who approved it. And remember, the Democrats have the majority.
aahhh, did'nt really read the link I included did you? Here's a recipe for you: SOUR GRAPES Juice drink recipes yield a single serving of 6 to 10 ounces. If sugar or honey is listed, add juice after juicing. 1 lime, peeled 2 cups red grapes Directions: process in blender, then serve[/quote) Not really necessary.
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[quote="deKooningartist"]
mustangsally10:
"There was no reason for us to become involved _ That was a war based on lies and misinterpretations from London and from Washington, claiming falsely that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attacks," he told the Independent newspaper. (optional)
I wish it was all that simple MustangSally and Moggy , but it was not. I'm not sure if either of you were old enough to remember what occurred on the floor of the Senate back in 1992 but here it is from Al Gore himself: Two portions of his speech: To hear the full speech on video go to: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2007/06/12/al-gore-blasts-president-bush-for-ignoring-iraqs-ties-to-terrorism/ This had been brewing for quite some time. It was because of the speeches on the floor of the house by Al Gore that I became personally involved with the plight of the Kurds and the dangers Saddam Hussein posed to the rest of the world. I still believe Al Gore was correct. ?I, myself, went to the Senate floor twice demanding tough action? I believed him then and I still do. 1998:
Quote: Al Gore ?The United States will not flag in supporting your efforts to promote a change of regime. I believe that there can be no peace for the Iraqi people and a genuine peace for the people of the Middle East so long as Saddam is in a position to brutalise his people and threaten his neighbours,? Gore told the representatives of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), an American-backed group seeking to overthrow Saddam. ?In the interests of regional peace and for the sake of human decency, [Saddam] must be removed from power. That is the policy of this administration. It is the policy I support. It is the policy I am personally committed to,? he added.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2000/489/re8.htm 9/11 and Iraq where two different issues. Similar in nature but seperate.[/quote/ I always enjoy your input and the way you document so much of what you post. I have learned a lot from you. Thank you for your research!
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What you read in the newspapers or hear in the news and what is actually true is astounding! I am not considered wealthy by Obama's standards. But I have a comfortable life. I've worked hard all my life. I kept hearing day in and day out about how no one could get example car loans and it was hurting the car industry something terrible. The entire country was collapsing. During this entire mess, when so called 'credit' was frozen, I got a loan for a second car!!! I have a mortage, a car loan on a new Jeep wrangler, and walked into a dealership on a Sunday night and drove home a 2005 Retro T-Bird! My friends and family were shocked! They couldn't believe I got a loan! According to the news, absolutely no one unless you were in that 1% wealthy category, could you possibly get a loan of any kind and even those people were having a hard time. But I did. Of course, that week I went in and paid off my new Jeep. I don't want two car payments. It's hard to trust what you hear nowadays.
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deKooningartist:
What you read in the newspapers or hear in the news and what is actually true is astounding! I am not considered wealthy by Obama's standards. But I have a comfortable life. I've worked hard all my life. I kept hearing day in and day out about how no one could get example car loans and it was hurting the car industry something terrible. The entire country was collapsing. During this entire mess, when so called 'credit' was frozen, I got a loan for a second car!!! I have a mortage, a car loan on a new Jeep wrangler, and walked into a dealership on a Sunday night and drove home a 2005 Retro T-Bird! My friends and family were shocked! They couldn't believe I got a loan! According to the news, absolutely no one unless you were in that 1% wealthy category, could you possibly get a loan of any kind and even those people were having a hard time. But I did. Of course, that week I went in and paid off my new Jeep. I don't want two car payments. It's hard to trust what you hear nowadays.
Alice (Jabberwacky) posted this Quote Of The Day: 'If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.' Mark Twain I think you two are on the same wavelength
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Let hope we are not going to have a day to day break down of what Brack should of done or is or is not doing. However Sara Palin on the other hand is meeting with Fox news in Alaska for a interview and as I predicted right here on this thread, it would be Fox's news or Desperate House wife's in her future. Looks like Fox news has their eye on her. Maybe she will get Oreilly job. Oh happy days.