The ..2012.... Political thread
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I found this opinion on another site (it's regarding the Brown-Coakley race) ...but it pretty much sums up my feelings as well... Up in New Hampshire I've watched the goings-on south of the border with great interest. Up until Friday I assumed Coakley would win and the best the GOP could do was make a close race, which would have to be good enough. But I now believe Brown's going to pull it off next week and here's why: 1. Coakley alienated Mass voters when she started running to replace Ted Kennedy before Ted had actually died. She managed to get a jump on her opponents and avoid blowback in the primary but those chickens are coming home to roost now. 2. She's the Anti-Kennedy. Mass voters are undoubtedly aware they can't bring bring Ted back, but that doesn't mean they're going to vote in someone who couldn't be any more different. If this was a Star Trek episode, Martha would have come straight from the antimatter universe, goatee and all. Ted was a lovable, freewheeling mess of man. Martha's a prim pantsuit wearing charismatic black hole. Ted reminds you of that fun uncle who'd give you his back issues of playboy and sometimes even buy you beer. Martha's your wife's sister who hates you. Ted loved to mix it up with his constituents. Martha's flunkies shove the hoi polloi to the curb when they get too close. Ted made you feel he was grateful for your support. Martha thinks you owe it to her. Ted could tell a joke. The closest Martha ever gets to a joke is when she makes herself one. 3. She didn't run a crappy campaign; for that to be true she would have had to actually run a campaign. She set her sights on the primary and after she nailed that she went on vacation, assuming she had done all the work she needed. And when she got back from Boca (or wherever) her first reaction to Brown's surge was to dive into the party elite. Instead of appealing to the voters she went over their heads to their bosses - the people who really count. And they opened their wallets to her. Scant hours after her disastrous debate performance the first big money attack add hit the "Massachusettes" airwaves and they've been flying fast and thick ever since - sometimes two and three deep. Clinton's there and Obama's coming Sunday. Don't think the voters haven't noticed this end run around them. It only makes her look more desperate and a bit slimy. 4. He helpers haven't helped much. Governor Deval Patrick's a corrupt mess. The State's flat on its back. And the leak last week that Mass might hold up Brown's certification if he wins only reinforced the perception among voters that their vote doesn't count, and this has deepened their resentment. 5. She's an apparatchik. Ted had influence, Coakley will arrive in DC as just another cog in the machine. Voters know that electing Scott Brown will have instant national repercussions and it appeals to their vanity. 6. Independents, which make up the majority of the mass electorate, have been deserting the party in droves. Oddly enough, a recent 25% sales tax increase, a moribund economy and high unemployment have conspired to reduce the attractiveness of a machine party candidate who actually proclaimed recently that "We've got to get taxes up in this state". There's a limit to what even Massachusetts voters will take - and Coakley's smashed headfirst into it. 7. Scott brown is not Coakley. 8. All the drama favors Brown. He has the momentum and his supporters are energized. They will turn out. Coakley's not so much. The current slimy barrage of attack ads aimed at Brown are probably discouraging some of her potential voters from hitting the polls because support for her means support for this transparent nastiness. If Coakley had turned negative a month ago and measured out the attacks if would have worked. Now this wild overkill just looks hysterical and even a bit evil. 9. It's obvious in retrospect that this was always Coakley's race to lose. She had every advantage from the start and if she does blow it next week most of the blame should go to her. But Brown deserves accolades for running a great campaign. He specializes in winning special elections - he got his current seat in 2004 against an affable but hapless opponent even after the Dems had rigged the election by scheduling it the same day as the national one. They assumed that voters who turned out for Kerry would just write off Brown in their partisan fervor. And while they did go heavily for Kerry that day they also went against the party grain and elected Brown. As one insider said "We cheated and he won anyway.". One could not imagine any candidate better suited to knock off Coakley. 10. Two years ago Massachusetts went heavy for "Hope and Change". This year they're going to do it again.
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As a famous yankee once said, it ain't over until it's over
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I'll be out there Tuesday morning at 7AM (since I have to work 9 until 4:45 then go to school from 5 - 9)...I was getting robot calls from both the Coakley and Brown camps...the 'Brown' calls were recorded by his daughter. Also, I never realized that more than 50% of MA's registered voters are undeclared/independent voters. I'm not sure Coakley realizes that she need to appeal to them as well as the registered Democrats. Instead, she put forth a negative campaign and people who are sick and tired of politicians in general and losing the shirts off their backs in this economy are not going for it. Instead of focusing on political issues (which I believe favors Brown regardless), these people are just hearing negative ads and saying 'I'm voting for the other guy'...
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That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not. Brown unfortunately misstates facts....he made a big deal about "martha not willing to debate"...she never said that. Fact was she would not debate unless the third candidate (yes boys and girls there are three on the ballot) was there as well. All three debated. Can't believe how many clowns in NH are trying to vote here If you work in Massachusetts but live in NH, you can't. My impression is that the voters here are more fed up with Beacon Hill. The senate (where Brown comes from) had a senator picked up by the feds on bribery charges; another was involved in a hit and run was put on probation and was picked up because he failed the random sobriety test, Marzilli, sexual misconduct. Finneran (senate leader) got bounced and recently disbarred for misconduct. The House is even worse. As my mother used to tell me: "you lie down with pigs, you come up smelling like one". btw if Brown is elected it takes 10 days for certification. And like others, the Senate needs to accept the credentials before you are seated. Stay tuned.
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If Brown wins... ...all that work on healthcare reform -- down the drain. And we will see no action from Republicans to address this life-or-death issue. 45,000 Americans die every year for the simple truth of not having health insurance. I wasn't nuts about the Senate bill, but at least it would've stopped ruthless insurance companies from denying sick people coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
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jaipur:
That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not. Brown unfortunately misstates facts....he made a big deal about "martha not willing to debate"...she never said that. Fact was she would not debate unless the third candidate (yes boys and girls there are three on the ballot) was there as well. All three debated. Can't believe how many clowns in NH are trying to vote here If you work in Massachusetts but live in NH, you can't. My impression is that the voters here are more fed up with Beacon Hill. The senate (where Brown comes from) had a senator picked up by the feds on bribery charges; another was involved in a hit and run was put on probation and was picked up because he failed the random sobriety test, Marzilli, sexual misconduct. Finneran (senate leader) got bounced and recently disbarred for misconduct. The House is even worse. As my mother used to tell me: "you lie down with pigs, you come up smelling like one". btw if Brown is elected it takes 10 days for certification. And like others, the Senate needs to accept the credentials before you are seated. Stay tuned. :wink:
That's what I'm afraid of...that wanker of a biatch using her clout in an attempt to cheat...
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That's cool - autocensors
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January 18, 2010, 11:34AM NEWARK, -- New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine was (is) spending his last full day in office ... Corzine today was (is) working out of his Newark office while the governor's Statehouse office in Trenton is readied for his successor. Gov.-elect Chris Christie is scheduled to be sworn in at noon Tuesday. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/gov_jon_corzine_plans_to_sign.html http://www.app.com/article/20100118/NEWS03/100118042/Corzine-wraps-up-unfinished-business
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Food for thought; http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=2811
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rich n:
jaipur:
That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not. Brown unfortunately misstates facts....he made a big deal about "martha not willing to debate"...she never said that. Fact was she would not debate unless the third candidate (yes boys and girls there are three on the ballot) was there as well. All three debated. Can't believe how many clowns in NH are trying to vote here If you work in Massachusetts but live in NH, you can't. My impression is that the voters here are more fed up with Beacon Hill. The senate (where Brown comes from) had a senator picked up by the feds on bribery charges; another was involved in a hit and run was put on probation and was picked up because he failed the random sobriety test, Marzilli, sexual misconduct. Finneran (senate leader) got bounced and recently disbarred for misconduct. The House is even worse. As my mother used to tell me: "you lie down with pigs, you come up smelling like one". btw if Brown is elected it takes 10 days for certification. And like others, the Senate needs to accept the credentials before you are seated. Stay tuned. :wink:
That's what I'm afraid of...that w**ker of a biatch using her clout in an attempt to cheat...
That isn't cheating or clout...it's the law. Certification that is. And that is true for elections in any of the states, not just here. Reid needed to accept Kirk's credentials and Franken's 8 months after the election...same thing here. That is senate protocol. (shrugs)...like it or lump it. Can't wait for the commercials to stop oh, and either candidate can challenge the result in court.
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jaipur:
That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not.
A lot of people don't understand what being...a liberal...a democrat...an independent...a republican...or conservative... actually means! Could any of the political doctors on the board please explain it to us? It is even more confusing when certain political party advocates claim to be independent...but, are not.
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In order to vote in an election in the US, you either need to register as a "democrat", a "republican" (both are parties here) or in Massachusetts you can register "unenrolled" a.k.a independent. You are not affiliated with either party (democrat or republican). Hope that helps.
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SurSteven:
jaipur:
That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not.
A lot of people don't understand what being...a liberal...a democrat...an independent...a republican...or conservative... actually means! Could any of the political doctors on the board please explain it to us? It is even more confusing when certain political party advocates claim to be independent...but, are not.
In America,"conservative" has become one of the most misused labels ever. It once meant fiscal responsibility, minimal intervening government in the lives of its citizens. Now, it is about self-righteousness in the name of religious-based morals and racism. "Liberal" actually embodies the original principles once associated with being a Republican: Keep government out of our personal lives and bedrooms, etc. Where liberals and conservatives clash is over issues regarding when government (tax dollars) should support all citizens. Single-payer healthcare system is such an issue. Liberals believe that free healthcare is a right. Conservatives believe one should rely on oneself to afford quality insurance. Yes, I'm generalizing; there are some issues where I'm conservative; others quite liberal. If the Republican Party had never gotten tied up with the Christian-right, there wouldn't be so many hypocrites in their clan. My point: When Bill Clinton (a liberal) was President, he left with a balanced budget and a surplus. When George W. Bush (a conservative) left the White House, we had record deficits. no surplus ad tons of legislation that wasn't paid for. Who's the conservative again?
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The original party of the USA was the democratic party. This is what all of our founding fathers were. The Rep party founded in 1854 by the wigg party opposed to slavery started the Rep party and in 1854 the first Rep President was elected causing many southern states to pull out of the USA. I think both parties have been jacked by extreme groups. The Religious Right and the Liberal left. It hard to be part of a party that has been the strong party than it switches because of a election to a religious party when that so against what are nation was built on.. I guess the Rep thought because they could get such a bone head like Bush elected they just cram another fool in our faces called Palin. Which polls claim 71% don't think she would get elected. The Dem seem not to be able to get any kind of leadership or change passed. The Rep seem to have a heavy corp controlled party that pretty much dictates to what policy their people will vote on regardless if they agree or not.. Vote all of them out.. That what got to happen.. I think Boston voting today is a perfect example of the change American can make.. No more telling us who to vote in or because we are part of a party we have to vote for them.. Not any more.. I hope strongly that Boston make change to a different party . I believe Kennedy would not of made it back in.. I think all of these guys both party are in for the run of there lives, people are mad. They want to clean house in Wash and don't care anything about party.. Lets face it Wash was so smug they actually didn't even give a election of choice.. They picked who they wanted to fill Kennedy's job and thought the public would let them take there vote away.. I glad they revolted and glad Obama visit backfired.. and clintons.
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We have a left hand and a right hand...it is interesting when we put them together to work and to pray!
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audi:
SurSteven:
jaipur:
That's true that the majority of voters here are independents, neither democrat or republican. Many have the misperception that Massachusetts is a "liberal" state....it's not.
A lot of people don't understand what being...a liberal...a democrat...an independent...a republican...or conservative... actually means! Could any of the political doctors on the board please explain it to us? It is even more confusing when certain political party advocates claim to be independent...but, are not.
In America,"conservative" has become one of the most misused labels ever. It once meant fiscal responsibility, minimal intervening government in the lives of its citizens. Now, it is about self-righteousness in the name of religious-based morals and racism. "Liberal" actually embodies the original principles once associated with being a Republican: Keep government out of our personal lives and bedrooms, etc. Where liberals and conservatives clash is over issues regarding when government (tax dollars) should support all citizens. Single-payer healthcare system is such an issue. Liberals believe that free healthcare is a right. Conservatives believe one should rely on oneself to afford quality insurance. Yes, I'm generalizing; there are some issues where I'm conservative; others quite liberal. If the Republican Party had never gotten tied up with the Christian-right, there wouldn't be so many hypocrites in their clan. My point: When Bill Clinton (a liberal) was President, he left with a balanced budget and a surplus. When George W. Bush (a conservative) left the White House, we had record deficits. no surplus ad tons of legislation that wasn't paid for. Who's the conservative again?
You forgot the E factor: 9/11. Bush is a republican, Clinton a democrat, not a "conservative" or "liberal" as you suggest.
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appletart2:
The original party of the USA was the democratic party. This is what all of our founding fathers were. The Rep party founded in 1854 by the wigg party opposed to slavery started the Rep party and in 1854 the first Rep President was elected causing many southern states to pull out of the USA. I think both parties have been jacked by extreme groups. The Religious Right and the Liberal left. It hard to be part of a party that has been the strong party than it switches because of a election to a religious party when that so against what are nation was built on.. I guess the Rep thought because they could get such a bone head like Bush elected they just cram another fool in our faces called Palin. Which polls claim 71% don't think she would get elected. The Dem seem not to be able to get any kind of leadership or change passed. The Rep seem to have a heavy corp controlled party that pretty much dictates to what policy their people will vote on regardless if they agree or not.. Vote all of them out.. That what got to happen.. I think Boston voting today is a perfect example of the change American can make.. No more telling us who to vote in or because we are part of a party we have to vote for them.. Not any more.. I hope strongly that Boston make change to a different party . I believe Kennedy would not of made it back in.. I think all of these guys both party are in for the run of there lives, people are mad. They want to clean house in Wash and don't care anything about party.. Lets face it Wash was so smug they actually didn't even give a election of choice.. They picked who they wanted to fill Kennedy's job and thought the public would let them take there vote away.. I glad they revolted and glad Obama visit backfired.. and clintons.
uh, the polls close at 8pm est. Nothing is done yet. You all do realize that the candidate will simply fill out Ted's term (3 years), right?? And will run again in 2012 ?? You do realize that Brown voted 96% with republicans on Beacon Hill (state government)?? You do know that Brown will vote against choice, right?? btw, Massachusetts has elected a republican to a senate seat: his name was Edward Brooke. Kerry has his seat.
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8:16 pm Coakley 50%, Brown 49% with 1% of the ballots counted. Polls closed at 8pm here. It's early boys & girls.
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It would be better for everyone if coakley wins...and it would be better for eveyone if brown wins...no wonder it's so close...a white guy named brown.