MEAT EATERS-SHAME ON YOU
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Moderator post This thread has been moderated and several inappropriate posts have been removed. We appreciate the passion with which this topic is being discussed but still ask members to respect others' opinions and refrain from posting abusive messages and name calling. Thank you
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me2:
jonesing:
"I'm considering becoming a vegetarian. Is there a particular site anyone can recommend, that details the transition process from meat eater to vegetarian? Thank you.
Lots of info here: https://www.vegsoc.org/ and here: http://maccaboard.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=62188
Thank you. I've tried some vegetarian recipes recently, and they were yummy. My desire to go completely veg has grown. I think these links we really be helpful. Once again, thank you.
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Kathryn O:
It was brought up multiple times. That's why I had to address it.
and still the times it was brought up was with reference to that SINGLE point i made in response to the phrase 'a cup of kindness' so you are still wrong about taking it literally regarding the content of the metaphorical 'cup' especially after i explained the reasoning behind saying 'soy milk'. i could have easily said 'orange juice' instead. i explained my point. my other points still stand - "we are all aware of the negatives of many things which are in the vegan world also, but note well: the same soya that you speak against is what all the animal-eaters also eat and drink huge amounts of either directly or indirectly by 'virtue' of al the flesh and milk they consume. almost all the animals are fed soya hence their flesh and all has the same 'bad stuff' and most products these people purchase which are non-vegan have added soya also, including milk drinks. "
Kathryn O:
and the culture it came from and how they consume it. (Tofu is traditionally not a vegetarian food either and is harmful if consumed in large quantities any other way).
as for tofu, i haven't had that in a couple years also. i drink mostly water and my protein is directly from beans, peas, legumes, hardly anything 'processed'.
Kathryn O:
You are also assuming I am not nor never have been a vegan.
WRONG AGAIN apparently you are selectively blind not just to the facts about it being evil to kill animals and eat them, but towards POSTS MADE HERE. READ MORE before retorting
simplyrahil:
and if you are not a vegan, but i assume some sort of vegetarian, then decide which side you're on and speak out for the animals (which is what we have been doing here) instead of attacking those who are defending them strongly. and this is not about 'you winning a debate' or vegans 'losing the debate' facts are facts - killing and eating animals is evil and paying for it makes one equally accountable and responsible and to BLAME for its perpetuation. as for the title of the thread, you'll have to take that up with 'phillip' wherever he may be. i have no idea who or where he is. i am only responsible for my posts defending the animals and opposing the insane mindset that animals are simply 'meat' on here. *shakes head* p.s. you said you 'stopped being vegan' quoting some lame reason. if you truly understood the real reasons for being vegan and felt compassion in your heart for animals, then no external reason would sway you from still being vegan. in short, you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan.
Kathryn O:
I've also probably turned more people onto vegan food then you ever have and got them to try vegan meals and realize how simple it is to make the dishes out of things they are familiar with. how? They saw me and wondered what I was doing.
yet you yourself aren't vegan. : what a shame this is exactly what i said above "you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. ==>accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan."
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simplyrahil:
Kathryn O:
It was brought up multiple times. That's why I had to address it.
and still the times it was brought up was with reference to that SINGLE point i made in response to the phrase 'a cup of kindness' so you are still wrong about taking it literally regarding the content of the metaphorical 'cup' especially after i explained the reasoning behind saying 'soy milk'. i could have easily said 'orange juice' instead. i explained my point. my other points still stand - "we are all aware of the negatives of many things which are in the vegan world also, but note well: the same soya that you speak against is what all the animal-eaters also eat and drink huge amounts of either directly or indirectly by 'virtue' of al the flesh and milk they consume. almost all the animals are fed soya hence their flesh and all has the same 'bad stuff' and most products these people purchase which are non-vegan have added soya also, including milk drinks. "
Kathryn O:
and the culture it came from and how they consume it. (Tofu is traditionally not a vegetarian food either and is harmful if consumed in large quantities any other way).
as for tofu, i haven't had that in a couple years also. i drink mostly water and my protein is directly from beans, peas, legumes, hardly anything 'processed'.
Kathryn O:
You are also assuming I am not nor never have been a vegan.
WRONG AGAIN apparently you are selectively blind not just to the facts about it being evil to kill animals and eat them, but towards POSTS MADE HERE. READ MORE before retorting
simplyrahil:
and if you are not a vegan, but i assume some sort of vegetarian, then decide which side you're on and speak out for the animals (which is what we have been doing here) instead of attacking those who are defending them strongly. and this is not about 'you winning a debate' or vegans 'losing the debate' facts are facts - killing and eating animals is evil and paying for it makes one equally accountable and responsible and to BLAME for its perpetuation. as for the title of the thread, you'll have to take that up with 'phillip' wherever he may be. i have no idea who or where he is. i am only responsible for my posts defending the animals and opposing the insane mindset that animals are simply 'meat' on here. *shakes head* p.s. you said you 'stopped being vegan' quoting some lame reason. if you truly understood the real reasons for being vegan and felt compassion in your heart for animals, then no external reason would sway you from still being vegan. in short, you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan.
Kathryn O:
I've also probably turned more people onto vegan food then you ever have and got them to try vegan meals and realize how simple it is to make the dishes out of things they are familiar with. how? They saw me and wondered what I was doing.
yet you yourself aren't vegan. : what a shame this is exactly what i said above "you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. ==>accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan."
My life cause is against self-righteousness which I see as the greatest evil. You display it and you refer to my reasons for not wanting to stay veg as lame. Not wanting any part of the nastiness I see displayed even here by you nor heroin or crack addiction (I've watched it destroy an entire city) which is heavily accepted by many of the veggies in my local community isn't lame. It's called survival. It's hardly lame. Being afraid I'd end up with a mentality like the one you display also disuaded me. You simply keep responding with catch phrases. Funny how I am not a vegan yet I've converted more to the joys of vegan food then you have. how? With a completely different attitude. Get off your high horse for a moment and realize there are other evils in this world then your cause and you display some of them.
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Kathryn O:
simplyrahil:
Kathryn O:
It was brought up multiple times. That's why I had to address it.
and still the times it was brought up was with reference to that SINGLE point i made in response to the phrase 'a cup of kindness' so you are still wrong about taking it literally regarding the content of the metaphorical 'cup' especially after i explained the reasoning behind saying 'soy milk'. i could have easily said 'orange juice' instead. i explained my point. my other points still stand - "we are all aware of the negatives of many things which are in the vegan world also, but note well: the same soya that you speak against is what all the animal-eaters also eat and drink huge amounts of either directly or indirectly by 'virtue' of al the flesh and milk they consume. almost all the animals are fed soya hence their flesh and all has the same 'bad stuff' and most products these people purchase which are non-vegan have added soya also, including milk drinks. "
Kathryn O:
and the culture it came from and how they consume it. (Tofu is traditionally not a vegetarian food either and is harmful if consumed in large quantities any other way).
as for tofu, i haven't had that in a couple years also. i drink mostly water and my protein is directly from beans, peas, legumes, hardly anything 'processed'.
Kathryn O:
You are also assuming I am not nor never have been a vegan.
WRONG AGAIN apparently you are selectively blind not just to the facts about it being evil to kill animals and eat them, but towards POSTS MADE HERE. READ MORE before retorting
simplyrahil:
and if you are not a vegan, but i assume some sort of vegetarian, then decide which side you're on and speak out for the animals (which is what we have been doing here) instead of attacking those who are defending them strongly. and this is not about 'you winning a debate' or vegans 'losing the debate' facts are facts - killing and eating animals is evil and paying for it makes one equally accountable and responsible and to BLAME for its perpetuation. as for the title of the thread, you'll have to take that up with 'phillip' wherever he may be. i have no idea who or where he is. i am only responsible for my posts defending the animals and opposing the insane mindset that animals are simply 'meat' on here. *shakes head* p.s. you said you 'stopped being vegan' quoting some lame reason. if you truly understood the real reasons for being vegan and felt compassion in your heart for animals, then no external reason would sway you from still being vegan. in short, you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan.
Kathryn O:
I've also probably turned more people onto vegan food then you ever have and got them to try vegan meals and realize how simple it is to make the dishes out of things they are familiar with. how? They saw me and wondered what I was doing.
yet you yourself aren't vegan. : what a shame this is exactly what i said above "you weren't convicted enough about the right of animals to not be murdered and eaten, to stay away from such yourself. don't blame others for your shortcomings as a human being who actually saw the facts and still chose to be part of the murder by not being vegan. ==>accept that if you are not vegan then you are part of the network of this murder of animals as a consumer of anything non-vegan."
My life cause is against self-righteousness which I see as the greatest evil. You display it and you refer to my reasons for not wanting to stay veg as lame. Not wanting any part of the nastiness I see displayed even here by you nor heroin or crack addiction (I've watched it destroy an entire city) which is heavily accepted by many of the veggies in my local community isn't lame. It's called survival. It's hardly lame. Being afraid I'd end up with a mentality like the one you display also disuaded me. You simply keep responding with catch phrases. Funny how I am not a vegan yet I've converted more to the joys of vegan food then you have. how? With a completely different attitude. Get off your high horse for a moment and realize there are other evils in this world then your cause and you display some of them.
very funny the excuses you make to keep being part of the bloodshed and murder towards animals. you pay for it, so accept that you perpetuate it. this is not about 'self-righteous' anything. this is about people causing animals to continue to be killed. if you so make others become vegan, then why aren't you yourself. can't do it? don't make excuses when it comes to lives. you being not vegan is not anyone else's fault nor is your excuse about 'being like others' good enough. animals are being abused and murdered and that is the weakest excuse one can make for failing to be vegan while knowing the facts and while claiming to influence others to become vegan. make up your mind if you are actually for or against the animals. by being not vegan you are surely not for the animals. this is not about your continuing to self-stroke your ego about 'how many you have made vegan' but about the fact that killing animals goes on due to your $$ that keep the murder industry alive and well. you're not vegan, so accept the fact that you are enabling this murder to go on. this is not about me. Sir Paul states the same about the animals. so don't blame anyone because Sir Paul is surely not something to be 'afraid of being like'. stop paying for killing animals.
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simplyrahil:
. yet you yourself aren't vegan. : what a shame .
As stated before, you don't know what I am. I was a vegan for many years and attitudes like this turned me off. it's not the way to convince people. it's just you spouting. you need to work on your argument so it actually works. I've convinced others to eat more vegan food. I convinced them when they saw how healthy I was and got interested in what I was eating and how I overcame some of my medical issues. Then they tried it and learned it wasn't difficult. My sister ate vegan while she had the flu over christmas so she wouldn't get more mucous. She also did it without my lectures. at this point, she knows herself and it wasn't that hard to make the all-vegetable food either (no grains either or nightshades) I also did it over two and a half decades ago. (You sound like you are still a decade into it and haven't reached the 'mellowing out' phase that we all hope to see eventually. It's usually the ones that have been into it less then about 15 years that still get the attitude you display. What you need to admit to yourself is your attack with self righteousness style of argument doesn't work (it never does historically either and leads to wars. in the vegan movement, it leads to groups like the Vegan Reich) and come up with a better style of convincing people rather then using the vegan ;movement and vegan issues as a way of spouting off your personal anger.
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The way people who eat meat are treated here by some others is a shame. To say we are murders and bad like the worst scum walking this earth is really not what Paul has in mind. Let me sum up what especially simplyrihal said: meat-eaters: unkind, murderes, killers, not able to think as we stick to the "wrong" point. vegetarians/vegans: loving, caring, right, very intelligent as they KNOW what is right. Quite a black/white scheme, isn't it? People like you, simplyrahil, are one of the reasons why I really do not like most vegetarians. If you have choosen your way to eat no animals I am alright with that. But why do all of you feel the need to preach meat-eaters this, even if all that you do is repeat over and over and over again what "our beloved Sir Paul" said like a mantra? Meat-eaters do not go around telling everyone to come back to meat-eating, we simply accept your vegetarian life-style, even admit that it might be good and healthy, maybe drop the habit of eating meat every day. Yet you even get aggressive and verbally attack meat-eaters. Your drawing of the sheep walking in the direction of the swastika can also apply to vegetarians. (And btw....as German I really think this comparison combined with what you said about my countrymen is a racist remark.) And as a last remark and then I am out of this discriminating and racist thread, let me quote Paul (or for some blind followers "our beloved Sir Paul") from his latest interview:
"Basically what we're saying with the meat-free Monday campaign is that out of your seven days, you might think of one day being meat-free. we're not really pushing it too heavily. we're not saying you should go veggie, it's good for you. "We're saying 'just try one day', and a lot of people say that's very do-able, a very accessible idea, and they enjoy it. There's all sorts of economic arguments that in a recession, meat tends to be the expensive bit of what you buy, so generally speaking, I think it's a good idea."
Will all of you vegetarians and vegans please leave it to every individual what they need without blaming meateaters of being killers, dumb followers or even worse? We leave you with your vegetarian/vegan life, we can think for ourselves and we can decide for ourselves. If you don't like our decision, it is your problem, just don't call us names and be racists. Signed: A murderer and ozon-killer.
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I hope that if people decide to be meat eaters they at least know what animal they are eating. Maybe if meat eaters killed their own meal each time with their own hands, instead of opening a cellophane package and popping it in the oven or microwave, they would know what they are eating and how much suffering the animal endured. HORSE MEAT FOUND IN BURGERS! http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-burger-king-horse-meat-20130124,0,6288077.story *and think about it...that is just the places we KNOW that bovine meat is mixed with other animals. What about the places you buy your meat you really don't know? :
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I hope that if people decide to be meat eaters they at least know what animal they are eating. [...]*and think about it...that is just the places we KNOW that bovine meat is mixed with other animals. What about the places you buy your meat you really don't know?
I know where my meat comes from, I usually buy at a butcher nearby. A steak is nothing you can combine with horse meat. When I want horse meat, I buy horse meat....that is why there are special butchers for that. I have seen that animal before, I know the farmer where it lived....but that does not make any difference to me. Besides the fact that I am aware of WHERE my meat comes from and that I do not buy meat in a supermarket as I do not know where that meat comes from. Opening a cellophane package and popping it in the oven or microwave? What a disgusting way to eat meat. All this does not help anyone...vegetarians try to give us a bad feeling that we consume meat without thinking about the fact that an animal has to die for this or without thinking at all. I do not try to make you feel bad when you buy your vegetables at the supermarket instead of getting it from your local farmer who does not use any pesticides....how about that? Do you buy at your local farmer?? Or do you buy your vegetables in a supermarket, even vegetables which have to be importet as they are not growing in your country or at that time??? Did you ever think about how much this affects environment?? We. are. not. guilty. We. do. think. We. are. no. murderers. Simply accept that.
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The subject of adopting a vegetarian lifestyle is, and most likely will remain, a controversial subject because there are so many angles from which the debate can be approached: Health - does a vegetarian lifestyle bring better physical health and longevity? Animal Rights - some adopt such a lifestyle because they prefer to view animals as fellow occupants of the planet with rights to life and good husbandry in equal measure to humans. Global warming and ecological impact - a relatively new strand - making the case that excess breeding of meat animals causes excess release of global warming gases. And the ecological argument that using cereal and grass crops that could feed the planet directly to produce meat is needlessly uneconomic and harmful to the planet. We are also seeing the various approaches of encouraging changes in lifestyle come into conflict. We have the aggressive approaches with both sides of the debate ridiculing and abusing the other - aggressive campaigns featuring posters and images of animal abuse, and exposing the less savoury aspects of mass produced food production esp. the short-cuts taken by some unscrupulous suppliers taken in the name of profit. We also see more educated approaches seeking to encourage change in lifestyle through good example and education. Campaigns such as Meat-Free Monday that seek to change attitudes and practice through the involvement of celebrity role models. I personally think the latter model - demonstrating tasty meat free recipes, good role models and a softly softly approach will win the day. One day at a time, one food group at a time makes the change easier and less dramatic. Many have given up red meat for the reported health benefits. They are more likely to move forward eliminating other meat groups through to fish etc. Aggressive approaches seem divisive creating intransigence amongst those offended by the personal attacks - indeed creating needless "opponents" to a meat free lifestyle. Paul and Linda firstly adopted "shock and awe" tactics - at one time showing audiences waiting to see their shows an Animal Rights film which showed some of the more difficult sights of animal abuse and the meat industry. In recent years the McCartney Family's approach seems to have mellowed with support for the Meat Free Monday campaign and a focus on quality tasty meat free recipes and food products to entice people to their preferred lifestyle. Certainly they seem a healthy bunch - it works for them. Martin
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Thank you Martin, THIS is absolutely a good approach which I can subscribe to. Not accusing anyone, not trying to convince anyone, not trying to overrule anyone. Simply accepting that there are different ways to approach this. I have seen that film on his tour and I am glad that he does no longer does this. I do not think that any meat-eater changed his mind after that film. His approach nowadays is better...in fact I tried MFM for myself and I try to do that regularly. Yet I still don't want to give up meat all at once....something some aggressive vegetarians do not seem to understand. Some vegetarians here are more aggressive (verbally of course) towards meateaters than they would ever be towards animals. That is ridiculous and does not help.
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Across-the-universe:
I hope that if people decide to be meat eaters they at least know what animal they are eating. [...]*and think about it...that is just the places we KNOW that bovine meat is mixed with other animals. What about the places you buy your meat you really don't know?
I know where my meat comes from, I usually buy at a butcher nearby. A steak is nothing you can combine with horse meat. When I want horse meat, I buy horse meat....that is why there are special butchers for that. I have seen that animal before, I know the farmer where it lived....but that does not make any difference to me. Besides the fact that I am aware of WHERE my meat comes from and that I do not buy meat in a supermarket as I do not know where that meat comes from. Opening a cellophane package and popping it in the oven or microwave? What a disgusting way to eat meat. All this does not help anyone...vegetarians try to give us a bad feeling that we consume meat without thinking about the fact that an animal has to die for this or without thinking at all. I do not try to make you feel bad when you buy your vegetables at the supermarket instead of getting it from your local farmer who does not use any pesticides....how about that? Do you buy at your local farmer?? Or do you buy your vegetables in a supermarket, even vegetables which have to be importet as they are not growing in your country or at that time??? Did you ever think about how much this affects environment?? We. are. not. guilty. We. do. think. We. are. no. murderers. Simply accept that.
I am not calling you names or any other meat eater names. I was highlighting a fact that lots of people, especially people who do not have the luxury to pick a specialty butcher, DO eat meat they really have no idea where it comes from. They DO open a prewrapped piece of meat and prepare it for consumption in whichever fashion to cook they use. Meat eaters still cannot tell me how many of the ones defending eating animals could actually butcher their own animals? From taking the animal from it's natural or unnatural environment, and killing it, butchering it themselves, and preparing it. It is easy on the mind to pick up a nice cut from a butcher. I did it many times in my life. But I never killed an animal with my own hands or instruments before I ate it. And that was part of what I am saying ask yourself, "could you kill the animal?" Then do it yourself. Why leave the dirty work for the butcher and the slaughterhouse and the farmer?
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Across-the-universe:
We. are. not. guilty. We. do. think. We. are. no. murderers. Simply accept that.
yes. you. all. who. eat. animals. are. Guilty. you. pay. for. the murder. and. killing. of. animals. you. fund. it. and. perpetuate. it. Simply accept that.
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yes. you. all. who. eat. animals. are. Guilty. you. pay. for. the murder. and. killing. of. animals. you. fund. it. and. perpetuate. it. Simply accept that.
There is one thing people like you have to accept: there are other concepts in life than yours. And other concepts does not necessarily mean WRONG concepts in life. Accusing others of having the WRONG concept is not alright....if you are really convinced that your concept and no other is the right one, you have to learn a lot in life! That is pretentious and arrogant. This is like the Roman Catholics who always said their religion and no other is the right one....pretentions and arrogant. Paul, who is more intelligent than you are apparently, accepted this and he has chosen the peaceful way to show people that there are other ways to live your life. General accusations are definitely not alright.....with every vegetarian acting like you do (accusing meateaters of being guilty, calling them killers and whatever) you will loose a possible converted meat-eater. There are better ways of convincing people than accusing them and getting at their throats. As long as you refuse to accept that other people have other concepts I refuse to listen to your endless ramblings and accusations. I will never change my life just because someone like you accuses me...in fact I would go on being meat-eater BECAUSE someone like you accuses me.
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i am veggie, hear me roar.
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Across-the-universe:
yes. you. all. who. eat. animals. are. Guilty. you. pay. for. the murder. and. killing. of. animals. you. fund. it. and. perpetuate. it. Simply accept that.
There is one thing people like you have to accept: there are other concepts in life than yours. And other concepts does not necessarily mean WRONG concepts in life. Accusing others of having the WRONG concept is not alright....if you are really convinced that your concept and no other is the right one, you have to learn a lot in life! That is pretentious and arrogant. This is like the Roman Catholics who always said their religion and no other is the right one....pretentions and arrogant. Paul, who is more intelligent than you are apparently, accepted this and he has chosen the peaceful way to show people that there are other ways to live your life. General accusations are definitely not alright.....with every vegetarian acting like you do (accusing meateaters of being guilty, calling them killers and whatever) you will loose a possible converted meat-eater. There are better ways of convincing people than accusing them and getting at their throats. As long as you refuse to accept that other people have other concepts I refuse to listen to your endless ramblings and accusations. I will never change my life just because someone like you accuses me...in fact I would go on being meat-eater BECAUSE someone like you accuses me.
excuse me, this wasn't about 'religion' and i don't have to or shouldn't have to (said this 100 times) 'baby' anyone to answer statements/questions (this started with things mjbeatle stated/asked on page 1) to get them to see and know the facts of what they pay for. if you say (and as i also said 100 times) that Sir Paul is more intelligent/kinder, etc. then sure, but why then is THAT SWEET AND INTELLIGENT set of LAID OUT FACTS also not being paid attention to and imbibed? what is the excuse then to not follow HIS kind and intelligent appeal to stop killing and eating the animals?? you try to take offense about 'being at throat'. but you do not think about ALL THE THROATS that are beaten, kicked and cut, those of innocent animals, which YES, ANIMAL-EATERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PERPETUATING. this is not about 'my concept' or 'your concept' this is about FACT PAYING for it ENABLES IT and CONTINUES IT SUPPLY AND DEMAND basic laws of money you continuing to say excuses about 'rambling' and 'accusations' is just the usual way to evade the FACTS. you eat animals, then face up to the facts about it. you ARE paying for their murders to happen and you pay for their flesh and thus keep the killing happening. there is no 2 ways about it. this is not my opinion. this IS what is going on. what is actually ARROGANT, to use your word, is the idea that you all can eat animals and have NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR IT, even in open exposés of it like this. your $$ fund it and perpetuate it. accept the facts.
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hey_kittay:
. It is easy on the mind to pick up a nice cut from a butcher. I did it many times in my life. But I never killed an animal with my own hands or instruments before I ate it. And that was part of what I am saying ask yourself, "could you kill the animal?" Then do it yourself. Why leave the dirty work for the butcher and the slaughterhouse and the farmer?
some of us can and did. and guess what, some have no problem with it. that is a different matter.
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simplyrahil:
. if you say (and as i also said 100 times) that Sir Paul is more intelligent/kinder, etc. then sure, but why then is THAT SWEET AND INTELLIGENT set of LAID OUT FACTS also not being paid attention to and imbibed? .
UP until others chimed in, I didnt' see anything sweet or intelligent laid out here. Just righteousness. and I never pay attention to that.
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simplyrahil:
. . this is not about 'self-righteous' anything. .
Yes it is.