Making rock/pop songs grammatically correct
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audi:
So what's the final verdict on "Live & Let Die"? Is Paul really singing "..in which we live in"? I'm standing by "...in which we're living."
I always thought (and still do) that it was "in which we live in" http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/paul+mccartney/live+let+die_20105856.html http://www.metrolyrics.com/live-and-let-die-lyrics-paul-mccartney.html
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Oh, dear.
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audi:
Oh, dear.
It's alright - rock wasn't meant to be grammatically correct, although there are certainly examples to the contrary
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rich n:
audi:
Oh, dear.
It's alright - rock wasn't meant to be grammatically correct, although there are certainly examples to the contrary
In which we live in... ...yikes.
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audi:
rich n:
audi:
Oh, dear.
It's alright - rock wasn't meant to be grammatically correct, although there are certainly examples to the contrary
In which we live in... ...yikes.
I don't know how, where or why - but for some reason, I vaguely seem to recall Paul himself pointing out (or admitting) this as well...LOL
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audi:
So what's the final verdict on "Live & Let Die"? Is Paul really singing "..in which we live in"? I'm standing by "...in which we're living."
I'm with you on this, audi! Me being the way I am, it did diminish my opinion of the song when I heard those were the words (on this thread, was it?), but then I listened again, and it's definitely "in which we're livin'". It makes sense, and it's what you can hear if you're not listening out for something meaningless. Nancy's wrong on this one, and quite possibly Paul himself is as well!!
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illwobble:
audi:
So what's the final verdict on "Live & Let Die"? Is Paul really singing "..in which we live in"? I'm standing by "...in which we're living."
I'm with you on this, audi! Me being the way I am, it did diminish my opinion of the song when I heard those were the words (on this thread, was it?), but then I listened again, and it's definitely "in which we're livin'". It makes sense, and it's what you can hear if you're not listening out for something meaningless. Nancy's wrong on this one, and quite possibly Paul himself is as well!!
I was only going by what others put on the web, and what I always thought when I heard the song. What is grammatically "wrong" about "the world in which we live in" anyway? It may be a bit awkward with the two "ins" but I still think that's what Paul is singing.
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Nancy R:
illwobble:
audi:
So what's the final verdict on "Live & Let Die"? Is Paul really singing "..in which we live in"? I'm standing by "...in which we're living."
I'm with you on this, audi! Me being the way I am, it did diminish my opinion of the song when I heard those were the words (on this thread, was it?), but then I listened again, and it's definitely "in which we're livin'". It makes sense, and it's what you can hear if you're not listening out for something meaningless. Nancy's wrong on this one, and quite possibly Paul himself is as well!!
I was only going by what others put on the web, and what I always thought when I heard the song. What is grammatically "wrong" about "the world in which we live in" anyway? It may be a bit awkward with the two "ins" but I still think that's what Paul is singing.
Technically speaking, it is an example of tautology or needless redundancy.
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Guess what? I was just over on the new site in the Jukebox and pulled up Live and Let Die. The lyrics there say "in which we live in." Sorry guys!
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Nancy R:
Guess what? I was just over on the new site in the Jukebox and pulled up Live and Let Die. The lyrics there say "in which we live in." Sorry guys!
That's what it sounds like to me.
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Nancy R:
Guess what? I was just over on the new site in the Jukebox and pulled up Live and Let Die. The lyrics there say "in which we live in." Sorry guys!
I really don't care! Who produces these "official" lyrics anyway, and on what authority? They're hardly produced by experts in grammar, as the grammar and punctuation is typically all over the place. I'd not even take Paul's own word on this kind of small detail as a final authority either, since he's forever forgetting his own lyrics in concerts etc. I've listened in detail several times, and still think "in which we're livin'" is closer to what is heard. Although you CAN hear it either of the two ways, I think the "in which we live in" is a pretty dumb interpretation, and am happy to ridicule anyone who wants to make any serious claim that these are the real words to the song. And that includes whoever first wrote down the version of the lyrics that ended up on the site!
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If this ever-changing world in which we live in, Under that blazing Sun under which we live under, Should change so much that we live Outside these grammatical structures outside of which we can choose to operate outside of, Then that could be perfectly all right, Besides the pointless repetition besides which we end up with words beside each other beside which there need be no other words beside.
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No need to get all heated up Jon! I realize "in which we live in" is not grammatically correct since he ends the sentence with a preposition, but I just wanted to point out that on Paul's official site it is listed that way. We will agree to disagree, okay?
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Nancy R:
We will agree to disagree, okay?
NEVER!!! If Paul himself thinks those are the words someone needs to tell him he's WRONG! PS. Ending a sentence with a preposition is something I have absolutely no problem with. It's just a matter of style. It is perfectly logical syntax, and people who outlaw it are prescriptive conservative bores. Same with splitting infinitives. No, the problem here is much deeper: the double "in" in two separate nodes of the clause makes the whole structure meaningless. PPS. Didn't you like my poem? I'm quite proud of it!
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Funny thread however after reading through it I think audi has made an error!! My grammar is terrible though, so please forgive me! He said the line in Ebony and Ivory, there is good and bad... should read there are good and bad BUT the line is, "there is good and bad in everyone..." which in my humble opinion is correct? Mind you, I believe that grammar is constantly evolving and the traditional rules are now outdated so don't listen to me! P.S. It is definitely "in which we live in" unless Paul sings it wrong in all his live performances. Surely the point of language is to express our thoughts to others? The meaning of the line is fairly obvious to anyone reading it or listening to it so in my opinion it does the job.
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I'm just here to remind that songs fit into the poetry genre (though they're not poems) and songwriters have "poetic license". That means they (we) can do whatever they want with language to create whatever effect. that's specially useful if you're really not very good at grammar, it doesn't matter....
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21st Century Paul:
I'm just here to remind that songs fit into the poetry genre (though they're not poems) and songwriters have "poetic license". That means they (we) can do whatever they want with language to create whatever effect. that's specially useful if you're really not very good at grammar, it doesn't matter....
And additionally, there are examples of technically 'bogus' grammar from all 4 Beatles, Bob Dylan, James Taylor, Paul Simon and of host of other world renowed writers. The difference with Paul's 'in which we live in' and someone singing something like 'I ain't got no love for you' is that the latter is trying to capture some type of spontaneous mood with that line while Paul's line simply stands as incorrect
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^^^but I should mention that with the above being said, it does not detract one bit (for me at least) from an otherwise great tune...I largely don't even think about it unless I see threads like this and try to be truthful with them
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rich n:
^^^but I should mention that with the above being said, it does not detract one bit (for me at least) from an otherwise great tune...I largely don't even think about it unless I see threads like this and try to be truthful with them
There's a peculiar way of writing lyrics. "Stream of consciousness", simply writing something without thinking anything about it, not a second (Paul did all EA this way, for instance). Paul uses that many times, he writes something and he does not know what he's writing about, he can discover it in the future. Or someone discovers and tells Paul and he says "yeah, you're right, I never realized before". John wrote I am the walrus this way for instance. I prefer that way, as Lennon said "the less sense I try to make the more sense I make", like in I Am The Walrus!. Sometimes you write a line a discover the meaning years afterwards, that's very trippy. As Len/Mc use to say: "That means something, we don't know what, but it means something" so they leave it in the song. It's "childlike wonder"
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cfergoid:
Funny thread however after reading through it I think audi has made an error!! My grammar is terrible though, so please forgive me! He said the line in Ebony and Ivory, there is good and bad... should read there are good and bad BUT the line is, "there is good and bad in everyone..." which in my humble opinion is correct? ...
OK... ...I appealed to my highest grammar-authority, my best gal-pal of twenty years who's working on her Ph.D. in Literature. She offered these two alternatives: (Because "good" and "bad" are adjectives) "There are good and bad aspects to everyone." Or: (Her preferred option) "There is good, and there is bad in everyone."