Worst McCartney album?
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Squid:
Shawn:
I used to say Pipes of Peace. But because I absolutely LOVE So Bad, Through Our Love, Say Say Say, and the title track, I've changed my mind.
I love those, and I love The Other Me, Keep Under Cover and Sweetest Little Show. I also have a soft spot for The Man (prefer it to Say Say Say actually). Which makes over half the album pretty damn good to me. I'm not quite sure why Average Person gets as much hate as it does - yes, it sounds patronising and is no great shakes as a song, but it is another story song, the kind of thing Paul fans usually really enjoy. I think it's being misinterpreted somewhat. The real hole in POP is the two back to back instrumentals, Hey Hey and Tug of Peace (I suppose that's not really an instrumental but it's so flippant it might as well be). Apart from the various contributions by Wings members in the 70s, that's the first time I've ever found filler on a McCartney album. And it's filler to no good reason as he had many many tracks available to him at the time, most of which remain unreleased. If he had properly recorded Seems Like Old Times and revisited Hear Me Lover with a view to expanding it (retaining the link with TOW) then we'd be looking at a much better perceived album.
Hey Squid, Well, I share some of your thoughts on POP. Hey Hey and Tug of Peace are true filler. Yes. And not in a good way. The Man, however, is repugnant. Only Freedom is worse, imho. The Man is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. That opening guitar solo alone makes me feel like throwing up a little. It is the worst of the duets. I also cannot see the merit in Keep Under Cover, and especially Average Person. Embarassing tracks, imo. Average Person is like a ridiculous, contrived take on the style of Ballroom Dancing. I find both BD and Average Person to be very sub par, but Average Person takes the cake. Not to oversimplify, but it's just so...stupid. Yeah, The Other Me is listeneable. It's OK. Say Say Say is a heckuva single. Catchy and fun. Plus a terrific video. So Bad and POP are classics, and Through Our Love is very close. All in all, quite a few weak spots, but it's not as bad as I've sometimes thought. For the record, I don't favor TOW either. To my ears, POP is it's weaker cousin. In any case, MAF is worse than all of it. A real trial for the ears.
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I think Pipes Of Peace is pretty uneven but it has some great songs, nice production and an overall charm. I listen to it often. Driving Rain (aka The Heather Mills Album) is the only one that downright bores me. It tries SO HARD and delivers SO LITTLE. I really wanted to like it too. Sad.
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Hi Shawn, well, I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise, as I respect your opinion, and I can see where you're coming from anyway. It's lightweight stuff, the only comsolation being it was a weightless time for music in 83 and 84 (and beyond). A large part of my attachment to POP is sentimental, it being the first McCartney album I'd bought, aged about 13. At that time I was really only interested in melody; not structure, nor lyrics; and POP did satisfy me in that regard. I was always less than happy with the Jackson presence - neither song struck me as being entirely in order, though Say Say Say had a pleasing ambience. I won't attempt to defend The Man; that one is every man for himself. Average Person strikes me as life stories without luck, possibly the only detailed acknowledgement in song that talent isn't enough. For that reason, it interests me; for a time I worked in the theatre, on the cusp of show business, and I recognise the absurdity of what goes on there in the song's associations; a man fails because he lacks a little height; a girl fails because not so young anymore, etc. I really do like Keep Under Cover, dumb as it is; silly rhymes to keep the song didactic enough to be catchy. We've seen Paul use that to great effect, especially on Temporary Secretary but, I agree, on Keep Under Cover there isn't the context of a conniving loop, much to the song's detriment. Won't listen to any criticism of The Other Me, one of my favourite Paul songs, for hugely personal reasons.
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Squid:
Hi Shawn, well, I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise, as I respect your opinion, and I can see where you're coming from anyway. It's lightweight stuff, the only comsolation being it was a weightless time for music in 83 and 84 (and beyond). A large part of my attachment to POP is sentimental, it being the first McCartney album I'd bought, aged about 13. At that time I was really only interested in melody; not structure, nor lyrics; and POP did satisfy me in that regard. I was always less than happy with the Jackson presence - neither song struck me as being entirely in order, though Say Say Say had a pleasing ambience. I won't attempt to defend The Man; that one is every man for himself. Average Person strikes me as life stories without luck, possibly the only detailed acknowledgement in song that talent isn't enough. For that reason, it interests me; for a time I worked in the theatre, on the cusp of show business, and I recognise the absurdity of what goes on there in the song's associations; a man fails because he lacks a little height; a girl fails because not so young anymore, etc. I really do like Keep Under Cover, dumb as it is; silly rhymes to keep the song didactic enough to be catchy. We've seen Paul use that to great effect, especially on Temporary Secretary but, I agree, on Keep Under Cover there isn't the context of a conniving loop, much to the song's detriment. Won't listen to any criticism of The Other Me, one of my favourite Paul songs, for hugely personal reasons.
Hi Squid, You know what's really funny? It was the first McCartney album I ever bought, too. I can still remember going to the K-Mart in Fredericton, New Brunswick, at the Brookside Mall, and buying the vinyl. I took it home, and played nothing else for the next year! And I made all my friends listen to it, too. I would say we're about the same age, becuase I'm pretty sure I was 13. I bought the album, because I was just getting into the Beatles, and I heard So Bad on the radio. I loved the song (still do), and I've been a fan ever since. For whatever reason, despite this emotional attachment to the record, it hasn't aged very well, and I have taken a much more critical attitude towards it. It all very humbling, of course...all the albums I originally despised are now my favorites (Wildlife, Ram, McCartney II), and all the albums I used to love so much have moved to the bottom of the list (POP, Press to Play, FITD). But I still find plenty to like, even on my "least favorite" Paul albums. Thanks for sharing your story.
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Shawn:
I used to say Pipes of Peace. But because I absolutely LOVE So Bad, Through Our Love, Say Say Say, and the title track, I've changed my mind. MAF now get's the honor. It's the low point for me.
Pipes Of Peace and Off The Ground are far weaker than MAF, i don't listen to either. POP and OTG are two of Paul's laziest albums, they don't have a single song on them with the quality of You Tell Me, Mr Bellamy, Only Mama Knows, That Was Me, House Of Wax, End Of The End and Vintage Clothes, there's no vitality at all on POP and OTG, MAF tramples all over them, no contest.
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BOYCIE:
Shawn:
I used to say Pipes of Peace. But because I absolutely LOVE So Bad, Through Our Love, Say Say Say, and the title track, I've changed my mind. MAF now get's the honor. It's the low point for me.
Pipes Of Peace and Off The Ground are far weaker than MAF, i don't listen to either. POP and OTG are two of Paul's laziest albums, they don't have a single song on them with the quality of You Tell Me, Mr Bellamy, Only Mama Knows, That Was Me, House Of Wax, End Of The End and Vintage Clothes, there's no vitality at all on POP and OTG, MAF tramples all over them, no contest.
PIPES OF PEACE is wayyy down the list, but OFF THE GROUND has its virtues. MEMORY ALMOST FULL is half a great album ("You Tell Me," "Mr. Bellamy," "See Your Sunshine" and "Only Mama Knows" being the obvious stand-outs).
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PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
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moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
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What about Ringo? Didn't he release any stinkers?
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Nancy R:
What about Ringo? Didn't he release any stinkers?
Yes, but even RINGO THE 4th is more listenable than McCARTNEY II.
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As much as I thought Press to Play was boring and I tend to lump it with that mid/late 80s Paul I sorta despised...I wonder, would it actually benefit from a re-evaluation whenever its re-released? I mean look at some of the major current pop acts trying to revive that 80s produced sound (i.e. Lady GaGa). I wonder if the reception will be nicer in a few years since that trend is looking to swing back to that noise? (Nah.)
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RRA:
As much as I thought Press to Play was boring and I tend to lump it with that mid/late 80s Paul I sorta despised...I wonder, would it actually benefit from a re-evaluation whenever its re-released? I mean look at some of the major current pop acts trying to revive that 80s produced sound (i.e. Lady GaGa). I wonder if the reception will be nicer in a few years since that trend is looking to swing back to that noise? (Nah.)
I think the songs on Press are quite good actually. Footprints is a near classic.
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GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
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herc:
GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
From my point of view Paul working with MJ was a artistic mistake. MJ was more a performer than a great writer. I'd much rather he had worked with a songwriter on his level, but also someone to push him, which working with Elvis Costello did to a degree. I don't think the Stevie Wonder collaboration worked well either. I think working with Paul Simon or Bob Dylan might bring out the best in him today.
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herc:
GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
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herc:
GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
Sorry - but I don't follow the 'he's famous - so I must like/respect him whether I like it or not'
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rich n:
herc:
GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
Sorry - but I don't follow the 'he's famous - so I must like/respect him whether I like it or not'
His "extra-curricular activities" really make him more infamous than famous.
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Lonely Princess:
herc:
GeorgeGoode:
moptops:
PIPES OF PEACE AND GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROAD STREET. Rotten, awful, garbage, rot, dross, muck, piffle... (a) proof that no matter how nice the cover artwork is - it doesn't necessarily a great album make. (b) The mid 1980's tested the patience of even long time Macca/Beatles fans (I was born in '62). We stayed with him , but by God, it was hard to do with the two albums released above back to back.
Yes, the 80's was a hard time for Beatles-fans. John Lennon shot dead, Paul McCartney working with an idiot like Wacko and losing the catalogue and George working with Madonna.
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
Creepy video...but appropriate!
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BOYCIE:
From my point of view Paul working with MJ was a artistic mistake. MJ was more a performer than a great writer. I'd much rather he had worked with a songwriter on his level, but also someone to push him, which working with Elvis Costello did to a degree.
Personally I thought his collaborations w/ Costello were unremarkable, the same with the MJ songs. Of course Macca worked w/ MJ mainly because he smelled what a blind man at a fertilizer plant could smell: Money. Symbolic bridging of the 60s and 80s, Vinyl and MTV, black and white, all that. Purely marketing why they decided to team up. And it benefitted both. Macca got his last solo #1 ("Say Say Say") and got a placement on Thriller, all-time best selling album and one of the greatest pop music records ever produced. MJ got some artistic credibility by rubbing shoulders with a Beatle (regardless of how we felt of said songs) and increased his demographic reach into the older, white Baby Boomers who were in their 30s/40s by the 80s. Everybody won, until Macca gave the best advice to the wrong person.
BOYCIE:
I don't think the Stevie Wonder collaboration worked well either.
I hate "Ebony & Ivory" but I love "What's That You're Doing." Pure vintage Stevie funk that somehow wounded up on a Macca album.
BOYCIE:
I think working with Paul Simon or Bob Dylan might bring out the best in him today.
Makes you wonder why Macca has never worked with them. I have a pet theory why with Dylan*, but Simon? Jesus Simon and Macca you would think would go together like peas and carrots. *=Its one word, starts with "G." You get 3 guesses.
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herc:
As a Mj fan i really enjoyed his working with michael,it seems that people here really need to learn to respect one of the biggest figures in music industry
There isnt anyone who loves Paul more than I, but really... The Michael Jackson songs were horrible, especially "The Girl is Mine". OMG, that song is an embarrassment to Paul. The lyrics are gag worthy. The whole "I'm a lover, not a fighter" is just... icky. Those songs are why I would vote "Pipes of Peace" as his Worst Album. I dont like "The Man" and "Say Say Say" is only slightly less bad. I dont respect MJ, he screwed Paul over the Beatles' songs, he allegedly touched little boys, jeez, what is not to like about him?