Rolling Stone Top-100... Why No Paul?
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Nancy R:
So does this mean they haven't overlooked Paul after all, since he was a member of The Beatles?
No. Because Lennon made it at #31.
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seventieslord:
Nancy R:
So does this mean they haven't overlooked Paul after all, since he was a member of The Beatles?
No. Because Lennon made it at #31.
I was joking! I'm still pissed at RS for not putting Paul on the list (and above John).
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seventieslord:
yankeefan7:
From RS below. These examples are from RS top 500 songs of all time. Three of the four Beatle songs that are in the top 20 are definitely McCartney songs, see below. The other song in the top 20 (I Want To Hold Your Hand) was definitely a collabaration and not a Lennon song.
Interesting how that ended up. So either they got it wrong about Lennon being the genius of the group, or they are wrong about what the four "best" Beatles songs of all-time are (impactful, significant, whatever). Or, it was two different journalists at two different times. Or, maybe Lennon was the main writer for most of the other 9 songs that made the list. 3.5 of the top 4 being Paul is probably just a "smalls ample anomaly". I think if one was to grab the 50 "best" Beatles songs we'd see a breakdown of approximately 50/50, give or take two songs.
You are probably right about the 50 best Beatle songs but since they were both awesome songwriters would that really surprise anyone. I have admitted RS has a bias in favor of Lennon and stated several reasons why I believe that in a earlier post. My whole point has been that even with the bias to Lennon, RS has been very complimentary about McCartney's work with and after the Beatles. Yes, they have written a few bad reviews but if you look at the majority of the reviews they are pretty good, especially since 1989. Really, does anybody believe that every McCartney record has been a gem - lol. I repeat again that RS has praised him very highly for his live performances. If you read some of the record reviews, they have stated McCartney is a awesome bass player. McCartney ranks #11 in RS top 100 Top Vocalist. I would like to make another point and say that the Rock and Roll HOF put McCartney in many years after Lennon as a solo artist so it is not just RS that has put Lennon on a pedastal. Finally, I can't explain the omission of McCartney in the top 100 Artists, it is just ridiculous. Eric Clapton also made it as a solo artist so why is McCartney not included.
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Here's the facts! Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a solo artist in March 1999, Guinness World Records described McCartney as "the Most Successful Composer and Recording Artist of All Time", with 60 gold discs (42 with the Beatles, 17 solo and 1 with the Beatles and Billy Preston) and sales of 100 million albums, 100 million singles, and a writer's credit on forty-three songs that have sold over one million copies each. According to Guinness, he is "the most successful songwriter" in UK singles chart history and "the most successful musician of all time".[[/b He has written or co-written "188 charted records, of which 129 are different songs. Of these records, 91 reached the Top 10 and 33 made it to number 1. In total, the songs have spent 1,662 weeks in the charts (up to the beginning of 2007)." McCartney has written, or co-written 32 number-one singles on the Billboard Hot 100 twenty with the Beatles; nine solo and/or with Wings; one as a co-writer of "A World Without Love", a number-one single for Peter and Gordon; one as a co-writer on Elton John's cover of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"; and one as a co-writer with Michael Jackson on "Say Say Say". As of 2012, he has sold 15.5 million RIAA certified units in the United States. Credited with more number ones in the UK than any other artist, McCartney has participated in twenty-four chart topping singles seventeen with the Beatles, one solo, and one each with Wings, Stevie Wonder, Ferry Aid, Band Aid, Band Aid 20 and "The Christians et al." He is the only artist to reach the UK number one as a soloist ("Pipes of Peace"), duo ("Ebony and Ivory" with Wonder), trio ("Mull of Kintyre", Wings), quartet ("She Loves You", the Beatles), quintet ("Get Back", the Beatles with Billy Preston) and as part of a musical ensemble for charity (Ferry Aid). "Yesterday" is the most covered song in history with more than 2,200 recorded versions, and according to the BBC, "the track is the only one by a UK writer to have been aired more than seven million times on American TV and radio and is third in the all-time list ... [and] is the most played song by a British writer [last] century in the US".[ Now besides the Beatles, who and how can anyone be higher? Composer and songwriter has nothing to do with sales, it has to do with the quality of songs written!
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yankeefan7:
You are probably right about the 50 best Beatle songs but since they were both awesome songwriters would that really surprise anyone.
Actually - I just tested my theory and I'm not right... not by a long shot! If you look at the 27 songs on "1", here is how they break down: McCartney: 14 Lennon: 8 Eye to Eye: 4 Harrison: 1 Covers: 0 I've always imagined the prospect of a Beatles version of the excellent Elvis comp "2nd to none" (I love the concept of just grabbing all the "next best" tracks to satisfy music eaters like me, they always manage to grab the rest of the significant tracks plus some hidden gems, good examples are CCR's Chronicle Vol. 2, Beach Boys Greatest Hits Vol. 2, Nazareth's Greatest Hits Vol. 2, The Legend of Johnny Cash, Vol. 2... anyway, /musicnerd) I figure it'd look like this. These are not my personal favourites, but the songs that have permeated our culture the most. Songs I knew or knew of, before I was an album-buying Beatles fan. I Saw Her Standing There Twist and Shout All My Loving I Should Have Known Better You've Got To Hide Your Love Away I've Just Seen a Face Drive My Car Michelle Taxman Good Day Sunshine Got To Get You Into My Life Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band/With a Little Help from My Friends Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds When I'm Sixty-Four A Day In the Life Magical Mystery Tour The Fool On the Hill I Am the Walrus Strawberry Fields Forever Back In the USSR While My Guitar Gently Weeps Blackbird Birthday Helter Skelter Revolution Here Comes the Sun Across the Universe Tally on these songs? McCartney: 15 Lennon: 7 Eye To Eye: 1 Harrison: 3 Covers: 1 Total: McCartney: 29 Lennon: 15 Eye to Eye: 5 Harrison: 4 Covers: 1 That's way more than I thought it would be. That's over 50% of the Beatles' most significant and well-known songs. Good for you, Paul.
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seventieslord:
yankeefan7:
You are probably right about the 50 best Beatle songs but since they were both awesome songwriters would that really surprise anyone.
Actually - I just tested my theory and I'm not right... not by a long shot! If you look at the 27 songs on "1", here is how they break down: McCartney: 14 Lennon: 8 Eye to Eye: 4 Harrison: 1 Covers: 0 I've always imagined the prospect of a Beatles version of the excellent Elvis comp "2nd to none" (I love the concept of just grabbing all the "next best" tracks to satisfy music eaters like me, they always manage to grab the rest of the significant tracks plus some hidden gems, good examples are CCR's Chronicle Vol. 2, Beach Boys Greatest Hits Vol. 2, Nazareth's Greatest Hits Vol. 2, The Legend of Johnny Cash, Vol. 2... anyway, /musicnerd) I figure it'd look like this. These are not my personal favourites, but the songs that have permeated our culture the most. Songs I knew or knew of, before I was an album-buying Beatles fan. I Saw Her Standing There Twist and Shout All My Loving I Should Have Known Better You've Got To Hide Your Love Away I've Just Seen a Face Drive My Car Michelle Taxman Good Day Sunshine Got To Get You Into My Life Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band/With a Little Help from My Friends Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds When I'm Sixty-Four A Day In the Life Magical Mystery Tour The Fool On the Hill I Am the Walrus Strawberry Fields Forever Back In the USSR While My Guitar Gently Weeps Blackbird Birthday Helter Skelter Revolution Here Comes the Sun Across the Universe Tally on these songs? McCartney: 15 Lennon: 7 Eye To Eye: 1 Harrison: 3 Covers: 1 Total: McCartney: 29 Lennon: 15 Eye to Eye: 5 Harrison: 4 Covers: 1 That's way more than I thought it would be. That's over 50% of the Beatles' most significant and well-known songs. Good for you, Paul.
Awesome, thanks for doing the research.
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To satisfy my curiosity, I took the next batch of 27 songs that seem to be the most significant. Here they are. And I Love Her Every Little Thing Glass Onion Golden Slumbers suite Good Morning Good Morning Happiness Is a Warm Gun Here, There and Everywhere I Wanna Be Your Man I Want You (She?s So Heavy) If I Needed Someone I?ll Follow the Sun I?ll Get You I?m Down I?m Looking Through You In My Life I?ve Got a Feeling Mean Mr. Mustard suite Norwegian Wood Nowhere Man Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da Oh! Darling P.S. I Love You Please Please Me Savoy Truffle Things We Said Today Tomorrow Never Knows Two Of Us That's broken down as follows: McCartney: 14 Lennon: 10 Eyeball to Eyeball: 1 Harrison: 2 So now that pretty much half their recorded output is counted, we're at: McCartney: 43 Lennon: 25 Eyeball to Eyeball: 6 Harrison: 6 Covers: 1 He could therefore be credited with 57% of the songwriting on the Beatles' best output. It's no secret that I prefer McCartney, but even this surprises me. As a young fan I never paid attention to who wrote, or even sung, the songs individually (except Ringo, I obviously knew when Ringo was singing). Nowadays I am very well versed in all that stuff but this is the first time I've really went back and revisited who was responsible for more top material.
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seventieslord:
To satisfy my curiosity, I took the next batch of 27 songs that seem to be the most significant. Here they are. And I Love Her Every Little Thing Glass Onion Golden Slumbers suite Good Morning Good Morning Happiness Is a Warm Gun Here, There and Everywhere I Wanna Be Your Man I Want You (She?s So Heavy) If I Needed Someone I?ll Follow the Sun I?ll Get You I?m Down I?m Looking Through You In My Life I?ve Got a Feeling Mean Mr. Mustard suite Norwegian Wood Nowhere Man Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da Oh! Darling P.S. I Love You Please Please Me Savoy Truffle Things We Said Today Tomorrow Never Knows Two Of Us That's broken down as follows: McCartney: 14 Lennon: 10 Eyeball to Eyeball: 1 Harrison: 2 So now that pretty much half their recorded output is counted, we're at: McCartney: 43 Lennon: 25 Eyeball to Eyeball: 6 Harrison: 6 Covers: 1 He could therefore be credited with 57% of the songwriting on the Beatles' best output. It's no secret that I prefer McCartney, but even this surprises me. As a young fan I never paid attention to who wrote, or even sung, the songs individually (except Ringo, I obviously knew when Ringo was singing). Nowadays I am very well versed in all that stuff but this is the first time I've really went back and revisited who was responsible for more top material.
While it may not be 100% accurate, I always thought that whoever did the lead vocal (McCartney or Lennon) probably wrote the song or had the most input into the writing.
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yankeefan7:
seventieslord:
To satisfy my curiosity, I took the next batch of 27 songs that seem to be the most significant. Here they are. And I Love Her Every Little Thing Glass Onion Golden Slumbers suite Good Morning Good Morning Happiness Is a Warm Gun Here, There and Everywhere I Wanna Be Your Man I Want You (She?s So Heavy) If I Needed Someone I?ll Follow the Sun I?ll Get You I?m Down I?m Looking Through You In My Life I?ve Got a Feeling Mean Mr. Mustard suite Norwegian Wood Nowhere Man Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da Oh! Darling P.S. I Love You Please Please Me Savoy Truffle Things We Said Today Tomorrow Never Knows Two Of Us That's broken down as follows: McCartney: 14 Lennon: 10 Eyeball to Eyeball: 1 Harrison: 2 So now that pretty much half their recorded output is counted, we're at: McCartney: 43 Lennon: 25 Eyeball to Eyeball: 6 Harrison: 6 Covers: 1 He could therefore be credited with 57% of the songwriting on the Beatles' best output. It's no secret that I prefer McCartney, but even this surprises me. As a young fan I never paid attention to who wrote, or even sung, the songs individually (except Ringo, I obviously knew when Ringo was singing). Nowadays I am very well versed in all that stuff but this is the first time I've really went back and revisited who was responsible for more top material.
While it may not be 100% accurate, I always thought that whoever did the lead vocal (McCartney or Lennon) probably wrote the song or had the most input into the writing.
I'm just going by the wiki article when I say this, but yes, this is typically true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_the_Beatles but yeah, back in my early 20s, I paid so much more attention to the music and the lyrics, than I did to knowing who was actually singing. Probably sounds incredible to you guys, as this stuff is just second nature to you by now, and they sound so different from eachother, but I never really thought about how "I am the Walrus is a John song" or "Penny Lane is a Paul song" or whatever.
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I believe Paul McCartney to be the greatest gift of music in the history of recording. Not only is he the greatest writer but also the greatest singer. No one is as capable of being as prolific in composing originality with a singing voice of such texture, tone and versatility. No one could nor can match his gift as a singer, nor as a songwriter. I knew these things long before he proved them. It's a recorded fact. I rest my case, case closed, case dismissed, not up for discussion.
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Sorry, people, but we have to argue about this list of "most significant Beatles songs". Lennon was unbeatable until 1966.
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nobodytoldme:
Sorry, people, but we have to argue about this list of "most significant Beatles songs". Lennon was unbeatable until 1966.
OK, go ahead. I think starting with the 27 #1 hits makes sense, followed by the 27 that many/most normal everyday people know, have heard, or have heard of. I can't imagine there being much difference between your "next 27" and mine. As for the third list, sure, there's going to be a lot of interchangeability there. Though I should note, I made this list with a mind clear of who had written which song. I only tallied up the "score" after the fact.
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whoever is keeping count, make sure you give Macca half credit for "In My Life"
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JoeySmith:
whoever is keeping count, make sure you give Macca half credit for "In My Life"
It's listed as "Lennon, with McCartney", so for these purposes it's a Lennon song. There were some that were the reverse that were counted as McCartney, so it all evens out.
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Cord:
I believe Paul McCartney to be the greatest gift of music in the history of recording. Not only is he the greatest writer but also the greatest singer. No one is as capable of being as prolific in composing originality with a singing voice of such texture, tone and versatility. No one could nor can match his gift as a singer, nor as a songwriter. I knew these things long before he proved them. It's a recorded fact. I rest my case, case closed, case dismissed, not up for discussion.
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nobodytoldme:
Sorry, people, but we have to argue about this list of "most significant Beatles songs". Lennon was unbeatable until 1966.
Yesterday came out in 1965.
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left hand man:
There's no excuse for this outright insanity! How in the world can the most famous, most successful, the guy who is acknowledged as the greatest rock star on the ****ing planet, known as the greatest singer songwriter in the history of music not be on such a list! Rollingstone should be ashamed of themselves and as far as I'm concerned their so called list has absolutely no credibility whatsoever! When it comes to Paul McCartney Rollingstone doesn't have a ****ing clue!!
*I'm hitting this topic rather late, but Left Hand Man is absolutely right. If they are going to include John as a separate artist from the Beatles, then it is totally ignorant not to include Paul at around the same (or even higher) rank. I rest my case on this main criteria... Which musical artist can sell out stadiums and is in more demand "worldwide" than any other. Answer is Paul McCartney. It practically doesn't matter what continent or country. Paul sells out stadiums/arena all over the world (i.e. Europe, Russia, South America, US, Canada, Mexico, Isreal, Japan etc. Paul commands the Greatest respect for music "worldwide" than any other artist (not just Englist speaking countries). I agree with RS that the Beatles are #1. they should have just left it to that. Once they included John separately (and not Paul) then the whole list is ludicrous. Paul has had the benefit of living much longer than John. He has been the Beatles' greatest ambassidor over the last 20 years while still having a great Post Beatles career. Bob Dylan himself has said that Paul is the "one" living artist that he is in "awe" of. I would put Mr. Dylan's opinion far above the "non objective" folks at RS.
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B J Conlee:
left hand man:
There's no excuse for this outright insanity! How in the world can the most famous, most successful, the guy who is acknowledged as the greatest rock star on the ****ing planet, known as the greatest singer songwriter in the history of music not be on such a list! Rollingstone should be ashamed of themselves and as far as I'm concerned their so called list has absolutely no credibility whatsoever! When it comes to Paul McCartney Rollingstone doesn't have a ****ing clue!!
*I'm hitting this topic rather late, but Left Hand Man is absolutely right. If they are going to include John as a separate artist from the Beatles, then it is totally ignorant not to include Paul at around the same (or even higher) rank. I rest my case on this main criteria... Which musical artist can sell out stadiums and is in more demand "worldwide" than any other. Answer is Paul McCartney. It practically doesn't matter what continent or country. Paul sells out stadiums/arena all over the world (i.e. Europe, Russia, South America, US, Canada, Mexico, Isreal, Japan etc. Paul commands the Greatest respect for music "worldwide" than any other artist (not just Englist speaking countries). I agree with RS that the Beatles are #1. they should have just left it to that. Once they included John separately (and not Paul) then the whole list is ludicrous. Paul has had the benefit of living much longer than John. He has been the Beatles' greatest ambassidor over the last 20 years while still having a great Post Beatles career. Bob Dylan himself has said that Paul is the "one" living artist that he is in "awe" of. I would put Mr. Dylan's opinion far above the "non objective" folks at RS.
I agree with you in principle. John being included with no Paul is ludicrous. But to play Devil's advocate, in response to the point about Paul being such a huge concert draw, a huge part of that is his inclusion of Beatles classics in his setlists. I believe it was 25 of 35 songs when I saw him in Edmonton. And the quality and timeliness of his Beatles songs is already reflected in their #1 ranking. So to properly assess his solo impact I think you have to somehow imagine what kind of a star he'd be on the live stage, if he only played post-1970 material. Which isn't easy to do.
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Paul McCartney would be the very same kind of star that he is right now! His post 70s material is more than strong enough, no not every single little note is Earth shattering, but there's more than enough quality material. Every single note by the Beatles or anyone for that matter isn't Earth shattering. Everyone has their so called filler. I say again, Paul McCartney should be #2 right after the Beatles! Where else do you place the documented and acknowledged GREATEST MUSICIAN, COMPOSER and SONGWRITER IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF POPULAR MUSIC?
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left hand man:
Paul McCartney would be the very same kind of star that he is right now! His post 70s material is more than strong enough, no not every single little note is Earth shattering, but there's more than enough quality material. Every single note by the Beatles or anyone for that matter isn't Earth shattering. Everyone has their so called filler. I say again, Paul McCartney should be #2 right after the Beatles! Where else do you place the documented and acknowledged GREATEST MUSICIAN, COMPOSER and SONGWRITER IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF POPULAR MUSIC?
I agree with most of what you said, but as far as Beatles 'filler' the only songs I would put in that category (to me unlistenable) are What Goes On? and Revolution #9. The rest I love and can sing along with every song. (Well, maybe not Wild Honey Pie!)