The ..2012.... Political thread
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SurSteven:
"We should be working for each other"
and we are.......thank god!
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The_Fool:
Has anyone noticed the polls - predicting the likely vote --- tightening up? Early the ones who wanted you to get bummed out because they wanted Obama to win -- showed him with a great lead --- it is tight now -- so they can have some credibility - and possibly be used in the future - if they are more accurate and close in their predictions. The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win].
McCain leads by 1% in a Rasmussen Poll due out on Saturday. One point is a statistical tie. But in all previous polls that were statistical ties it always had Obama on top. With all the attacks going back and forth between front runners this is the most tame election I've ever seen.
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deKooningartist:
The_Fool:
Has anyone noticed the polls - predicting the likely vote --- tightening up? Early the ones who wanted you to get bummed out because they wanted Obama to win -- showed him with a great lead --- it is tight now -- so they can have some credibility - and possibly be used in the future - if they are more accurate and close in their predictions. The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win].
This needs to be restated....
The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win*
Caution on the polls. This last spring they called my house and asked if I was willing to participate in an ongoing presidential poll throughout the campaign. I said sure. They asked a ton of questions. For president and governor I stated McCain and Rossi (both republicans). I never heard from them again. The interesting thing is they are still calling my neighbors who are Obama supporters. Imagine that! I talked to my other neighbor who is a vet and a republican. They only called him that one time too!
Thank you Dekooning Artist. A lot of these so called scientific polls are suspect. Being told Obama leads by 6% points while polling 600 dems and 500 Reps tells me the celebrations might be a bit premature. But one thing Obama has over his two predecessors, Kerry and Gore, is he smiles and laughs a lot. The other two were the saddest looking gloomiest people I've seen in a long time I couldn't bear the thought of seeing them on tv everyday for eight years.
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anna_medlicka:
Mikemc:
Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
Well, hopefully the crowds supporting John McCain don't believe everything he's saying... or worse, what Sarah - I can see Russia from my house - Palin is saying!
Sarah Palin is my favorite of them all. I think she would be a better president than McCain or Biden. I know she would be a better president than Obama because Obama has no expreience. If he sat this out Hillary would have been elected. In eight years he would only be 55 with a whole lot more experience. In her second term she could have made him sec of state and he would be a shoe in to get elected. 16 straight years with a Democratic White House. But Obama put himself before his Party and country. My biggest concern about Obama is we know too little about him. His records at Columbia are sealed. His thesis is about Soviet nuclear proliferation yet none of us can see it and the media have been silent about it. Of course, I don't believe everything coming from McCain either and I think Palin's use of the word "maverick" is getting old. As a point of information, Palin never said she could see Russia from her house. That was a comedian, a Saturday Night Live skit, or an editorial poking fun at her. But somehow most people believe she said it. I did too until I did a bit of research. I give credit to whoever wrote it because it's a good line. I know quite a few people who liked her and now thinks she's an idiot because of Saturday Night Live.
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deKooningartist:
For only the wealthy???? : Despite Claiming He'd Lower Taxes For Middle Income Americans, Obama Voted In Favor Of The Democrats' Budget - Which Would Raise Tax Rates For Americans Earning $42,000 Or More:
Obama Voted Twice In Favor Of The Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution. (S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 51-44: R 2-43; D 47-1; I 2-0, 3/14/08, Obama Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #142: Adopted 48-45: R 2-44; D 44-1; I 2-0, 6/4/08, Obama Voted Yea) The Democrats' Budget Would Raise Taxes On Individuals Earning Approximately $42,000 Or More. "The resolution Obama voted for would not have increased taxes on any single taxpayer making less than $41,500 per year in total income(www.factcheck.org, 7/11/0
I quess wealthy went down to $42,000 per year.......
Mikemc:
Obama also voted to give tax cuts to big oil. McCain voted no on that bill and Obama blames him anyway for cutting big oil companies taxes. And the media is silent.
Mikemc:
Now Bill Richardson says the tax cuts are for those making less than $120,000. In just a weeks time middle class went from $250k, to $200k, to $150k, to the latest number $120k. If a Republican had such a slipshod plan for his candidacy he would be laughed off the ticket. a woman from the Obama went on Fox News to defend the tax discrepancies and while she was lost for words when shown the tapes she said that anyone who's making $45,000 is middle class. If McCain is smart he will use that for another commercial. There is no way Obama can keep his promises for government intrusions with bigger government takeover of our lives by only raising taxes on people make +250k. He's lucky the NY Times, big three networks MSNBC and to a lesser extent CNN are in the tank for him.
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Mikemc quotes in blue.
jaipur:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
Mikemc:
Appletart, Everyone in this world is born into it. Who is to say that someone owes you free health care from cradle to grave? What right does an anyone have to make demands of others? Nobody owes you, me, or anyone else around here anything. There is no such thing as "free". Owning a car is not a birthright, owning a home is not a birthright either. And it's not up to someone else to feed you either. Why should I have to work harder to take care of you? Better yet, should you have to work harder and longer each week to take care of me? Mind you, I'm not talking about people who are physically or mentally disabled. I'm also not talking about elderly people who paid taxes all their life either. Certain people deserves more rights than others. If you are healthy and able you deserve only what you can afford, nothing more and nothing less.
Sounds like you're basing this on a false assumption....that all of us will be "physically or mentally abled"....not necessarily true....then what? Hi Jaipur, No way will all of us be physically and/or mentally abled all our lives especially as we age. I wouldn't even think like that. There was always and will always be people who are physically and/or mentally disabled and the government should make available all resources to help such people. But the government is so screwed up. My friends mother is 101 and went into a nursing home last year after falling and breaking her hip. Besides medicare she had medicaid. At 99 a caseworker did a home visit to assess her needs. Her son told the caseworker she needs 24 hour round the clock care at home. NO GOOD. Medicaid would only pay for 12 hours even though the caseworker conceded she needs to be watched all the time but will probably lose her job if she approves 24/7 care. I guess she has quota like traffic agents and cops. That's government health care with rationing. Now she's in a home getting care not as good as when someone was at home with her. It's also costing medicaid over $10k a month. The other and more logical way would be a home care attendant around the clock for less than $6,500 a month. Hummm!! car owner ship VS health care. Ok let me reword it. Heath care services up until Wall Street saw it as a profitable gig, used to be a calling. Most hospitals were run by religious organization and were mostly charity. No one would ever turn a sick person away for lack of payment. Or because of law that forbade that to happen either. Fast forward. The creation of medical insurances(or known in the streets of little Italy, as Guido) Once formed they were supposed to (for a fee) cover your medical coverage. However as they involved they lobby hard to pass laws to give them more rights to not pay. they also got government to join in threw lobbying and once government employees all over the US had great medical insurances, no one cared about the rest of the public. Not sure about the rest of the country, but up here the "insurance" is nonprofit....each state does their own health insurance for state workers so be careful not to lump them all into NY's state of affairs or Massachusetts. Why if our current system is so fair. Why do government employees have such better coverage than you or I can buy. You congressperson serves 6 years and get LIFETIME medical paid for. I believe you're speaking of the coverage provided to senators and congressmen, not necessarily those of state workers in each state...not the same. Point is taken though. :wink: With a trillion dollar government secured sugar tit for the insurances industry to suck from, they don't have a lot of interest in insuring the rest of the public. They get so over paid by government that they don't want the regular guy. Plus they get to stick it too the self employed. hmmmm..... As the insurances company became more powerful (because they cheat people and don't pay for what there suppose to) they ended up driving health care threw the roof and now if you don't have medical in many cases, you can't get any medical service. Yes and no You go into an emergency room, you will be taken care of (law in most states)....insurance is only part of the health care issue...there are many more variables causing the issues we are facing, not just insurance. OUR system is broken! Broken! Agreed. What being proposed is currently being used in every country but ours. You and I will both pay one price for insurances. Government will than pay a fair price for all services and contol price gouging which we don't have now. Doctor want it the sick want it and the healthy should want it. You payment will be like 50 month VS mine which is 589 a month. The medical community and insurances industry and been plotting and planning for years. Raising prices threw the roof assuming years ago we would of went on socialized medicine but Wall street was making too much money and the drug companies. They don't want it. Now we have a false inflated medical system. You go to Canada and you can buy drugs sooooooo much cheaper than the same drug is produced here. Why because that what the country would pay. We have no one in our country taking care of us. We are being exployed as a country because we do have means here. So everyone can over charge the rich american. Your schooling is paid for and so should your health care. Change is a good and important thing. No one should have to worry about getting sick. They should just be helped to get well. Your being brain washed. Hey look at it like a Rep would look at it. Spend it on YOU or they'll spend in on some Iraqi or worse AIG CEO. It will cost less if all are on the same program.
The biggest expense incurred in health care is malpractice insurance. Tort reform could lower costs substantially but the democrats won't allow tort reform because they are bought and paid for by trial lawyers. Doctors have to order up every kind of ridiculous test just to cover his ass. All that raises the cost of medical insurance. Yes, I agree with you completely here.....too often we expect doctors to walk on water...when they don't, it's settled in court more often than it should be. Mind you, there are cases where it should, but not to the extent that the public seems to demand it....that has to change. When Hillary tried to socialize health care with "Hillary Care" in the 90's members of the House and Senate were gonna be exempt. They wanted new laws for us, not them. Shouldn't that raise a red flag when they exempt themselves and especially their families from a health care plan they want for us? Part of it was she was too arrogant and would not reach consensus with the legislators....my way, or no way is not the way to get it done. Also, the Hillary today appears to be different that the Hillary in 1993 or so. She also held meetings behind closed doors shutting out all but the few she trusted. It angered and insulted a lot of Washington insiders. She was the presidents wife and she wasn't appointed to a cabinet position or elected to any office and she was gonna take control of 1/5 of our economy exempting the executive and legislative branches who would retain the best care. One law for them and another law for us. Another reason for higher health care costs are people living longer because of advancements in medicine. Sure you can buy meds from Canada. But if you get ill or killed from a bad batch of medicine, you're on your own. If you are prescribed a med and get a duplicate made in India and it's bad or worthless, you're on your own. The cost for each pill we swallow includes insurance because the drug company is liable. Part of the argument though is the R&D is done here (thus, we pay the higher costs), while other countries get the benefits (lower costs).... Yes, absolutely. It takes years to recoup the hundreds of millions to bring a single drug to market, then overseas drug companies make counterfeits often times very poor counterfeits. Doctors don't want government run health care. My doctor is gonna pack it in if it passes. Look at England. Most of their doctors are from India and the mid east because Brits don't want to go through all those years of schooling to become an underpaid civil service worker. And the doctors we would get would have inferior education and experience coming from countries with lower standards. Like Britain, health care in the US will be rationed and it will take months to get an appointment with your doctor. It already takes awhile to get an appointment because there are fewer primary care physicians. The doctors we get are educated here. My state has many teaching hospitals, thus our state costs for health care are the highest in the world.....repeat, highest in the world. Health care is not rationed here, there is private sector insurance along with the public sector, and sometimes a combination, private sector (Blue Cross) with a portion subsidized by government. Of course the individual chooses what they want....sounds like a market doesn't it? 97% of our citizens are now covered by health insurance, the key to open the door to care...no other state is higher. Google it. Now we work on costs, not an easy thing.:wink: I don't doubt the high cost in Massachusetts. I've been using the same doctor for over 20 years and I always get a same day appointment. If I'm referred to a specialist it usually takes two to three weeks. At such times as needed my doctor will call and get an expedite. When I needed an mri last month the appointment took one day. Don't forget, when you come into this world the only ones who owe you anything are your parents. And nobody owes them anything. They have to work to provide for you the things you need and want. It's nobody elses job to take care of you. (when I say "you" I'm not referring to you specifically. I'm talking about all of us) Agreed. My brother was taking care of a wife, two kids, and his in laws. He figured there had to be a better way. He didn't sit around whining that it's the governments fault. He took matters into his own hands. He went to college full time while working full time and graduated with a 3.97 index. He took on a better job, but he still wanted more. He went back to school again for his Masters in Computer Science. Then he got the job that he really wanted. But everything he's got he worked for. He didn't complain that someone owed him a bigger house and a better paying job because he has kids and in laws. He worked harder and harder never giving up and now he's right where he wants to be. Many people can get there....what about the rest? Working hard doesn't get everyone where they need to be. The working hard part isn't the problem. It's working hard for such a long time knowing it's gonna take quite a bit of time after that to slowly reap the rewards. Mon to Fri he was going from 6am to 11pm and spent most weekends at the library. There was no internet resources at his disposal. Me personally, I wouldn't have been up for such a commitment. I know just how far I would be willing to go and any lost opportunities is of my own doing. I can't blame anyone else for not having gotten this or that. When you say the government will than pay a fair share and stop price gouging. Who is the government? The government is the people. And if 40% pay no taxes at all the other 50% is paying for their health care and yours. Nobody owes you anything and if you have any faith in government to keep you healthy plan a short life because they are the very last people you want "helping" you. Think about New Orleans. So far, the government hasn't rebuilt private homes destroyed but Habitat for Humanity has built a lot of homes because they got past dumb government red tape. Look at "ground zero" in lower Manhattan. They've done nothing in 7 years. It took a year to build the Empire State Building back in 1930, and the construction workers didn't have the technological advances that we have today. Right near where I live over passes for a narrow parkway are in need of rebuilding. Each overpass should take about a year. They've been averaging 5 to 7 years for each one. If you want to live a long happy life don't plan on the government keeping you healthy. Trust your own instincts and your doctors instincts.
My observation is that there are many that do what they can do: get educated, work hard, et al, yet are thwarted in achieving what is necessary, not because they're lazy, stupid...I've seen many people in this predicament and they are loathe to ask anyone, let alone government for help....perhaps you need to tell them: "tough, you get squat"?? I don't know....
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else.
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appletart2:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Well glad the bridge is still there for you to use. Have at it. The world would be a nicer place. Mike you personally attack people who disagree with you and have been warned repeatedly to knock if off but your so irrogant and conceded you can't help yourself. You have personally done more to get Barack Obama elected with your white, male supremacy, all about me, additude and for that I thank you. Here just a few examples of what we all lost with passing of the Patriot Act. A act the 90% of congress never even read when they passed it into law. Its illegal now to yell out where a Politician is speaking in public and they can arrested you for doing this and its now a Felony. Government no longer respects FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Those who worked for NSA are quiting due to Bush's disregards for our privacy rights. They were spying and easy dropping on private citizen and who knows who on this board might of been one. No I not willing to give up my freedom for a paranoid like you who believes there all out to get us. They also suspended Habeas corpus under the PA. I lost the right to a fair trail. If falsely charged with being a terrorist they now have the right to arrest me, charge me with terrorism, take me off to a prison without disclosing where and tell know one where you been taken and for what your being charged with. I'm thinking this could be abused. : Another change in law due to this act is now if you lie to a cop its a felony. Your a young kid. You get pulled over by a cop and freak out and lie to the cop and give him a false name. You have now committed a felony and will never be able to vote in this country again after you serve your jail time. The true consequence of this law can be so abused by government its really quite scary. I don't live in Nazi Germany and this Act is something you would expect to be drafted there. Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin would turn in his grave knowing they abused the word Patriot in such a act that is so not a act of patriotism. Oh one last thing Mike, Bill O'Reilly is a dick with ears
A highlighted in red personal insults from your post. Act like an adult you'll be treated like one. I don't know why you brought O'Reilly into this, you must be getting real desperate. When you initiate a post to me with personal insults directed to me you're gonna get the same right back. On your previous post you told me to get a clue and you said I was brainwashed. So, if you're gonna act like shithead I will treat you like a shithead. Now to the contents of your deranged post: This thread is 137 pages long go through it and show me where I was unprovoked and yet I initiated personal attacks at someone. As far as being warned by mods. You have no idea what, if anything, has been said. You should concern yourself with your own warnings because you initiate insults to a lot of people who aren't far left wing radicals. The Brooklyn Bridge is still standing because of the Patriot Act, not that you would care. If Clinton put through the Patriot Act the WTC would still be standing, again, not that you would care. 3,000+ would not have died that day, not that you care. If 90% didn't read it would that include Biden? What about Obama? I know it's before his time. It came out when Obama was scheduling pta meetings to prepare him for the presidency. Why did Obama sign on to extend FISA? Who are you gonna blame for that? Rush Limbaugh? Bill O'Reilly? The NSA has no time to listen in on 300 million calls every minute. They don't even have the technology or manpower. So if you're making dinner plans on the phone and you think the NSA is listening in, find the nearest hospital and have yourself checked in. Dems made the same complaint about innocent people being tapped, but they can't produce on victim in a country of 300 million. What were you arrested for that caused you to lose the right to a fair trial? American citizens are tried in criminal court. Are you here illegally? If you get pulled over by a cop the first thing he asks for is your drivers license. If you lie and give a fake license or no license at all and give a fake name you should be locked up. Cops have better things to do than to play games with criminals. There is a brutally high murder rate in Obama's state senate district where he was an 'organizer'. Obama did nothing about it. Cops could have done more if their hands weren't tied by race baiting leeches like Obama. You're over reading into Ben Franklin's security/liberty quote. The key modifiers are "esential" and "temporary". No one should give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a LITTLE TEMPORARY SAFETY. Get it? Ben Franklin's quote has no bearing on anything involving terrorists today. Do you think Ben Franklin would be more concerned about the rights of terrorists who killed 3,000+ innocent people in the U.S. than the rights of those still under target? Leftists always complain about losing rights, invasion of privacy etc... Where is the outrage over Joe the plumber? Democratic operatives employed by the state of Ohio illegally looked up his personal information from tax records, child support records, unemployment insurance records and the media published it all. Where's the outrage? He asked Obama a fair and reasonable question and Obama gives a dumb answer about spreading the wealth around and now the media and Democratic operatives want to destroy this man. His dumb answer may cost him the presidency. We know more about Joe the plumber than we know about Obama. And what we know about Obama is not good. If he applied for a job as a janitor at the Pentagon he would fail the background check and not get security clearance.
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SurSteven:
Mikemc:
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate?
Why are you equally as obnoxious and ...1/4th as aware?
You shouldn't take my words out of context. Shame on you.
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Hold The Presses The Cost Of Obama's Attire - suits, shoes, & ties released Nah, that only happens when the news media is truly "fair & balanced" So they pic on Sara Palin's attire cost ... To cover up bigger, more expensive Obama pork barrel campaign spending (let's see how we can distract the public from asking or thinking the same about Obama).
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Friday, October 31, 2008 Obama spent nearly $700,000 for stage, lights in Berlin Jerry Seper UPDATE: Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama paid a German company nearly $700,000 for staging, sound and lighting services at the time he delivered a speech this past summer in Berlin and declared himself a "citizen" of both the U.S. and the world. Billed as a highlight of Mr. Obama's July trip to Europe, the speech -- delivered before hundreds of thousands of people in front of the historic Victory Column in Tiergarten -- was organized by the Berlin-based company Mediapool, opening much like a rock concert, with warm-up performances from the band Reamonn and reggae singer Patrice. The German company, whose Web page says it specializes in theater and event management, is listed as a disbursement recipient on Mr. Obama's most recent campaign expenditures report, filed Thursday with the Federal Election Commission. The company prominently displays pictures of the Obama speech and rally on its marketing pages and lists the event at the top of its projects page. RELATED STORIES: ? 3 papers for McCain kicked off Obama press jet ? Poll: Media lacks public trust on election reports The company was paid $667,082 by the Obama campaign in three disbursements in July and August, according to the FEC records. The campaign also paid $9,018 to the limousine service Bero Berlin, the records show. The disclosures come at a time of giant campaign budgets and massive spending by both Democrats and Republicans. Republican vice presidential nominee Gov. Sarah Palin's maverick image as a moose-hunting "hockey mom" took a hit with disclosures that the Republican National Committee had spent $75,062 at high-end department store Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis and $41,850 in St. Louis in early September on her wardrobe, along with $4,100 for makeup and hair consulting. About one-third of the Alaska governor's purchased clothes have since been returned. At the time of the wardrobe disclosures, Obama spokesman Nick Shapiro noted that neither the campaign nor the Democratic National Committee had paid for the wardrobes of Michelle or Barack Obama. Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said it "should come as no surprise" that the events Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain have participated in over the past two years cost a lot of money to produce. "But given that the executive editor of The Washington Times attacked our campaign this morning with talking points ripped from our opponent's playbook, we doubt that it will investigate the hundreds of thousands of dollars the McCain campaign spent on fair complexes, opera houses, clubs, aquariums and casinos around the country," he said. Mr. LaBolt's comments were in response to a statement Friday by Executive Editor John Solomon after The Times was kicked off Mr. Obama's press plane in the final days of the election. "This feels like the journalistic equivalent of redistributing the wealth," Mr. Solomon's statement said. "We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars covering Senator Obama's campaign, traveling on his plane, and taking our turn in the reporters' pool, only to have our seat given away to someone else in the last days of the campaign." Also dropped were the New York Post and Dallas Morning News. All three newspapers have endorsed Mr. McCain. McCain spokesman Brian Rogers, speaking on the Berlin expenditures, said, "Clearly, being the biggest celebrity in the world doesn't come cheap." During the Berlin speech, Mr. Obama spoke repeatedly of the things "we" must do on terrorism, the environment and other global issues. The speech was filled with references to politics, from acknowledging American shortcomings to urging Germany to recommit to NATO success in Afghanistan. "I speak to you not as a candidate for president, but as ... a proud citizen of the United States and a fellow citizen of the world," he told the crowd, which had gathered not far from where the Berlin Wall once divided the city. Officials estimated that the crowd was one of the largest in Berlin's history. Estimates ranged from the campaign's guess of 200,000 to as many as 500,000 from the German Embassy in Washington. The Obama campaign carefully crafted the event, which was helped by perfect weather, and said the footage might be seen in a political ad. Obama fans distributed a photo of the massive crowd next to a photo of a remarkably similar crowd at the 1963 March on Washington. The reception from the Berlin crowd was as rapturous as the campaign could have hoped. During the speech, one fan held a sign reading, "Barack for Kanzler," the German word for "chancellor," and dozens of Europeans in the crowd said they could not wait to see President Bush leave office. About 700 Berlin police officers reportedly were assigned to the event, which also needed a larger-than-usual force of U.S. Secret Service agents. Mr. Obama received raucous applause for saying the future meant "finally bringing this war to a close" in Iraq, but the loudest cheers erupted when he talked about climate change and railed against genocide. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/31/obama-spent-nearly-700000-for-stage-lights-in-berl/
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Brother's Keeper Obama is a typical hypocritical Democrat; he wants to help everybody...with YOUR MONEY. This battle of ideologies comes down to a very simple question; Do YOU want to be in charge of how YOU spend YOUR money OR should you allow the government to TAKE YOUR money and decide how THEY want to spend YOUR money. I'd rather decide myself, thank you. Obama has a very generous rhetoric. In his greek column speech in Denver at the convention, he quoted the passage in the Bible that refers to being our brother's keeper. YET, he has a half-brother living in a hut in Kenya on $20 per year and a recently discovered Aunt (who he refers to affectionately in one of his books) living in a Boston slum for the past 5 years. I don't see any evidence that the wealthy Obama family has done anything to help his own family. I guess when Obama refers to being "our" brother's keeper, he means government. Oh, and I wonder if Obama knew that his Aunt has been living in the country ILLEGALLY!
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Our Republican dominated Congress and Senate voted themselves 3 raises in a 10 year period while refusing to raise minimum wage. They make well over a $150,000 dollars a year. It wasn't until 2 years ago, when the Democrats regained power, that minimum wage was raised. Obama should be using the term..."Un" redistribute the wealth...as the currently distributed wealth has slowly made the rich richer and the low paid workers poorer over the last few decades...which stagnates the economy. It is why we have these economic problems after republican and conservative philosophies have been in power for a few years. Money has to keep moving for the economy to work efficiently and will not when some people want to hoard and sit on piles of it! Some people will make more money...and should.......while some people will make less money...and should.......BUT NOT...to such divided extremes!
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Mikemc:
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else.
All that you have stated and has been re-quoted on the last two pages of this thread are excellent points especially this statement. This is where I see the divide in our country over the current Democratic philosophy and the Republican philosophy. My biological father came from a communist country the Soviet Union therefore I am first generation. On my mother's side, her father immigrated here from Sweden thus making me second generation on this side of the family. My step father (who was a central figure in my upbringing) his parent's immigrated from Scotland. I know too well what happens to people of a heavily Socialized society and a communist society because I was reminded on a daily basis. I was taught the only handout is the one at the end of your arm. I was taught self-reliance. Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
It was also stressed that the more control you give over to the government, the less freedoms people have. Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
This is why my family came to this country because they valued the basic principles of America and the freedom she offered to them. Both sides of my family left everything behind to come to this country in hopes of a better life for the next generation. I think these ideals of why our ancestors came to America have been lost by not only my generation but especially subsequent generations. The first hand knowledge and to quote Thomson: " A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us." My family knows of these dangers first hand. And although the core philosophy of Socialism albeit an altruistic one, our founding fathers knew of it's dangers and wisely framed our Constitution to reflect a freer society ensuring it's future generations would not be shackled by a government controlled society. Because they knew the more power you hand over to the government, the more individual freedoms you relinquish. The promises Obama is making in his well delivered speeches (written by David Axlerod) sound great but at what cost? And I am not talking about monetary. And if Socialism is so great, then why are so many people from Socialized countrys trying to immigrate here? Once again Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
And why did Lincoln make this speech? Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
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Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over , and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/ Mccain is very popular in Macedonia, and er, er....thats about it really Stop press ! a bloke likes him in Lesotho
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moggy:
Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over , and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Both the Butler Review and the Senate Select Committee on Pre War Iraq Intelligence (SSCI) point to other efforts by Saddam to purchase uranium, most notably from the Democratic Republic of the Congo . The Butler Review states in 2002 the CIA 'agreed that there was evidence that [uranium from Africa] had been sought.' In the run?up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents. This then was the context in which Ambassador Joe Wilson went to Niger in February of 2002. Based on multiple sources and the best judgement of the CIA, Saddam Hussein was trying purchase uranium. Since there were no working commercial nuclear reactors in all of Iraq, his interest could only be based on his desire to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program. There was no 'fixing' of intelligence or 'shaping' intelligence to fit some preconceived agenda. Despite UN resolutions and sanctions, Saddam was looking to build the bomb.
To read full article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/about_that_500_tons_of_yellow.html Imagine how many more lives would have been lost if Saddam would have had "his bomb"? Didn't he gas his own people? From the Kurdish Museum:
Each one of these lights represents one of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds murdered in the genocidal Anfal campaign. A river of twinkling lights lines the ceiling. Each represents one of the five thousand villages destroyed by Saddam Hussein.
Past the hallway of mirrors and light is a small room made up to look like a traditional Kurdish home. Houses like these barely exist in the countryside anymore. Saddam Hussein destroyed most of them. The rural part of the country is now eerily empty of people.
Did you know? During the Kurdish uprising after the 1991 Gulf War, almost every last person fled to the mountains. The cities were almost completely emptied of people. Imagine living your life like that. Everyone over the age of 20 remembers it vividly.
The Peshmerga fled to the mountains as well. They used those mountains as bases for their military operations against the Saddam regime. One picture stood out in particular for me. Below you can see a man who was shot dead while crossing one of the main streets. As it happens, the man is lying directly in front of my hotel.
(This picture I did not upload but I think you can imagine what it looks like)
Some rooms in the museum don?t have pictures at all. Instead they show the instruments and the methods of torture. In one room, the so-called ?Washington Room,? men and women had hot electric irons pressed into their skin. Dozens of people were packed into single caged cells. This one, pictured below, needed to have blood scrubbed off the walls before it could be opened to visitors.
(Again I have refrained from uploading these pictures)
The hardest thing to see was the cell used to hold children before they were murdered. My translator Alan read some of the messages carved into the wall. ?I was ten years old. But they changed my age to 18 for execution.?
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001068.html Go to the museum and now ask yourself whether you are on the left or right in political views, do you still not think that this man, Hussein who was actively obtaining yellow cake aka uranium was NOT capable of starting WWlll? Do you not remember what was uncovered in Iraq regarding the torture chambers? Did Hussein not invade Kuwait? Granted there are indescribable injustices throughout the world....such as Rowanda and currently Darfur to only name a few of the hundreds. But Hussien's murderous regime was actively obtaining uranium and you tell me the world was not worried of Hussein's nuclear capabilities? Kind of makes alot of the posting here with regards to us yanks going socialist or not a bit miniscual in comparison. I reiterate my previous post and the dangers and or loss of freedoms of too much power of any government over it's citizens.
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Yes, just a few days left of the war mongers and the bu$h doctrine(if you don't know what that is ask Palin ) Tuesday night this is what it will be like all over the US :
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mustangsally10:
Yes, just a few days left of the war mongers and the bu$h doctrine(if you don't know what that is ask Palin ) Tuesday night this is what it will be like all over the US :
Yes once again when someone makes indisputable points in previous posts that the liberal factions can not dispute, rely on tired old talking points of bashing the current President and calling all those who do not agree with you 'war mongers'. rather than having an intellectual discussion. Please tell moveon.org you need new lines
deKooningartist:
Mikemc:
That makes me think of my parents generation. Too proud to take a hand up because they saw it as a hand out. Most I know from that generation were/are immigrants with little in the way of formal education and they all did well in the end because they worked hard, put in long hours, and saved whenever they could and saw to it their kids got the hand up from them and no one else.
All that you have stated and has been re-quoted on the last two pages of this thread are excellent points especially this statement. This is where I see the divide in our country over the current Democratic philosophy and the Republican philosophy. My biological father came from a communist country the Soviet Union therefore I am first generation. On my mother's side, her father immigrated here from Sweden thus making me second generation on this side of the family. My step father (who was a central figure in my upbringing) his parent's immigrated from Scotland. I know too well what happens to people of a heavily Socialized society and a communist society because I was reminded on a daily basis. I was taught the only handout is the one at the end of your arm. I was taught self-reliance. Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
It was also stressed that the more control you give over to the government, the less freedoms people have. Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
This is why my family came to this country because they valued the basic principles of America and the freedom she offered to them. Both sides of my family left everything behind to come to this country in hopes of a better life for the next generation. I think these ideals of why our ancestors came to America have been lost by not only my generation but especially subsequent generations. The first hand knowledge and to quote Thomson: " A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us." My family knows of these dangers first hand. And although the core philosophy of Socialism albeit an altruistic one, our founding fathers knew of it's dangers and wisely framed our Constitution to reflect a freer society ensuring it's future generations would not be shackled by a government controlled society. Because they knew the more power you hand over to the government, the more individual freedoms you relinquish. The promises Obama is making in his well delivered speeches (written by David Axlerod) sound great but at what cost? And I am not talking about monetary. And if Socialism is so great, then why are so many people from Socialized countrys trying to immigrate here? Once again Abraham Lincoln:
Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself........
And why did Lincoln make this speech? Fred Thomson:
" A government that is large enough to do everything for us, is powerful enough to do anything to us."
deKooningartist:
moggy:
Well.....the days of the bush administration are nearly over , and we have made it without having WW 3.....although its been close. Let us not forget though those who havnt been so lucky.....the brave soldiers killed on a pack of lies.....the families of the soldiers. The 1 million killed in Iraq......4 million homeless/ refugees and a further 4 million living in poverty. The people of the world who have been killed through terrorism, as a result of revenge for the invasion. I hope he has a few sleepless nights. I have just read this on another thread http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/
Both the Butler Review and the Senate Select Committee on Pre War Iraq Intelligence (SSCI) point to other efforts by Saddam to purchase uranium, most notably from the Democratic Republic of the Congo . The Butler Review states in 2002 the CIA 'agreed that there was evidence that [uranium from Africa] had been sought.' In the run?up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents. This then was the context in which Ambassador Joe Wilson went to Niger in February of 2002. Based on multiple sources and the best judgement of the CIA, Saddam Hussein was trying purchase uranium. Since there were no working commercial nuclear reactors in all of Iraq, his interest could only be based on his desire to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program. There was no 'fixing' of intelligence or 'shaping' intelligence to fit some preconceived agenda. Despite UN resolutions and sanctions, Saddam was looking to build the bomb.
To read full article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/about_that_500_tons_of_yellow.html Imagine how many more lives would have been lost if Saddam would have had "his bomb"? Didn't he gas his own people? From the Kurdish Museum:
Each one of these lights represents one of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Kurds murdered in the genocidal Anfal campaign. A river of twinkling lights lines the ceiling. Each represents one of the five thousand villages destroyed by Saddam Hussein.
Past the hallway of mirrors and light is a small room made up to look like a traditional Kurdish home. Houses like these barely exist in the countryside anymore. Saddam Hussein destroyed most of them. The rural part of the country is now eerily empty of people.
Did you know? During the Kurdish uprising after the 1991 Gulf War, almost every last person fled to the mountains. The cities were almost completely emptied of people. Imagine living your life like that. Everyone over the age of 20 remembers it vividly.
The Peshmerga fled to the mountains as well. They used those mountains as bases for their military operations against the Saddam regime. One picture stood out in particular for me. Below you can see a man who was shot dead while crossing one of the main streets. As it happens, the man is lying directly in front of my hotel.
(This picture I did not upload but I think you can imagine what it looks like)
Some rooms in the museum don?t have pictures at all. Instead they show the instruments and the methods of torture. In one room, the so-called ?Washington Room,? men and women had hot electric irons pressed into their skin. Dozens of people were packed into single caged cells. This one, pictured below, needed to have blood scrubbed off the walls before it could be opened to visitors.
(Again I have refrained from uploading these pictures)
The hardest thing to see was the cell used to hold children before they were murdered. My translator Alan read some of the messages carved into the wall. ?I was ten years old. But they changed my age to 18 for execution.?
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001068.html Go to the museum and now ask yourself whether you are on the left or right in political views, do you still not think that this man, Hussein who was actively obtaining yellow cake aka uranium was NOT capable of starting WWlll? Do you not remember what was uncovered in Iraq regarding the torture chambers? Did Hussein not invade Kuwait? Granted there are indescribable injustices throughout the world....such as Rowanda and currently Darfur to only name a few of the hundreds. But Hussien's murderous regime was actively obtaining uranium and you tell me the world was not worried of Hussein's nuclear capabilities? Kind of makes alot of the posting here with regards to us yanks going socialist or not a bit miniscual in comparison. I reiterate my previous post and the dangers and or loss of freedoms of too much power of any government over it's citizens.
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Bush seems to be the whipping boy du jour. Let's rate the American Presidents by the challenges faced during their term(s) of office. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman...you choose others if you like. What tests the mettle of a President ? Which endured the greatest hardships ? This exercise might better inform our current choice.
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LCH:
Bush seems to be the whipping boy du jour. Let's rate the American Presidents by the challenges faced during their term(s) of office. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Truman...you choose others if you like. What tests the mettle of a President ? Which endured the greatest hardships ? This exercise might better inform our current choice.
I think that's a great idea
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That's ONE vote. The candidates will surely need more. Ok. Washington began the American Democracy as we know it. The revolution against England (sorry Paul !). America came VERY close to losing its independence. Washington lost more battles than he won. He set a very important precedent by declining a third term. Abraham Lincoln presided over the most divisive debate America has ever seen. Now we have a black Presidential candidate. Reconstruction of a war-torn South was a daunting task. I await further replies. I don't wish to be a blabber-mouth.