The ..2012.... Political thread
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The_Fool:
O.W.S. - How will you know you have gotten what you came for? How do you measure it? What is the end result? Example: When protesting the war - it can be measured by reducing the troops, having the troops come home, ending the war, and all agreements of war is over ..... yea our protest is over (for now). I ask these questions because there does not seem to be any clearly defined "exit strategy" , in the O.W.S. movement - that has been answered by a protester. Next, it really bothered me that someone posted earlier on this thread that it did not matter if the average everyday worker in these protest areas get pounded by not being able to get to their jobs, get to their customers or have their business torn up. (Especially their restrooms - that get damaged and cost them to repair) They are trying to make a living - they are not making millions - - but they lose money, sometimes jobs until this is over ..... the wrong people are getting hurt and you say so what?! Just curious ..... who is giving the marching orders?
I agree that the OWS needs a stronger message, but I think the movement is still evolving. I think by no later than next year's elections we'll know what the movement is and how to quantify the effectiveness of it. As for your final point, I made a comment of the sort, but if you are indeed referencing me you are missing the point in a big way. First, I don't think there is any widespread occurrence of damaged businesses, it's just that the businesses are claiming the protesters are causing some non-OWS customers to avoid these businesses, cutting into their sales. I acknowledged that it sucks, but the corporate greed that permeates Wall Street poses an economic threat to countless more Americans than the relative few protesters pose to these businesses. I believe I quoted Star Trek, with the needs of the many needing to outweigh the needs of the few in this scenario. I wasn't saying that the small business owners should just take the negative effects and shut up, but that they need to see the bigger picture and direct their ire towards the corrupt members of Wall Street who've indirectly started this movement. I'm trying to think of a good analogy and though it needs some work here is what I've got. Picture a second grader who gets severely beaten up on his street by a middle schooler every day after school. To prevent the beatings from continuing the second grader takes a shortcut across his neighbors' yards, but in the process really mangles the landscaping on these households. Sure, the neighbors might get irked by the second grader, but those that can understand the big picture realize that the real problem is the violent middle schooler. If the neighbors help the second grader deal with the bully, they will make the street safer not only for him, but for all defenseless second graders who, based on unfair circumstances (in this case, age and size) can't stand a chance.
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service_gamer:
The_Fool:
O.W.S. - How will you know you have gotten what you came for? How do you measure it? What is the end result? Example: When protesting the war - it can be measured by reducing the troops, having the troops come home, ending the war, and all agreements of war is over ..... yea our protest is over (for now). I ask these questions because there does not seem to be any clearly defined "exit strategy" , in the O.W.S. movement - that has been answered by a protester. Next, it really bothered me that someone posted earlier on this thread that it did not matter if the average everyday worker in these protest areas get pounded by not being able to get to their jobs, get to their customers or have their business torn up. (Especially their restrooms - that get damaged and cost them to repair) They are trying to make a living - they are not making millions - - but they lose money, sometimes jobs until this is over ..... the wrong people are getting hurt and you say so what?! Just curious ..... who is giving the marching orders?
I agree that the OWS needs a stronger message, but I think the movement is still evolving. I think by no later than next year's elections we'll know what the movement is and how to quantify the effectiveness of it. As for your final point, I made a comment of the sort, but if you are indeed referencing me you are missing the point in a big way. First, I don't think there is any widespread occurrence of damaged businesses, it's just that the businesses are claiming the protesters are causing some non-OWS customers to avoid these businesses, cutting into their sales. I acknowledged that it sucks, but the corporate greed that permeates Wall Street poses an economic threat to countless more Americans than the relative few protesters pose to these businesses. I believe I quoted Star Trek, with the needs of the many needing to outweigh the needs of the few in this scenario. I wasn't saying that the small business owners should just take the negative effects and shut up, but that they need to see the bigger picture and direct their ire towards the corrupt members of Wall Street who've indirectly started this movement. I'm trying to think of a good analogy and though it needs some work here is what I've got. Picture a second grader who gets severely beaten up on his street by a middle schooler every day after school. To prevent the beatings from continuing the second grader takes a shortcut across his neighbors' yards, but in the process really mangles the landscaping on these households. Sure, the neighbors might get irked by the second grader, but those that can understand the big picture realize that the real problem is the violent middle schooler. If the neighbors help the second grader deal with the bully, they will make the street safer not only for him, but for all defenseless second graders who, based on unfair circumstances (in this case, age and size) can't stand a chance.
I understand that big picture - put the small guys out of business in hopes that they are forced into a change of philosophy and eventually join the frey in asking for free handouts...It's funny that the biggest indictment against Bin Laden and the Taliban was the involvment of innocent lives in their supposed fight for 'their cause'...What's so different about this?
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Btw, I know you'll say that this video (please see below) side steps the 'issues' (LOL)...but to me speaks volumes
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The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
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SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
That's ok - I'd rather follow the advice of those with strong work values, who believe you make what you earn...and not blame every other entity on earth for any subscribed shortcomings
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SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
Service gamer called me ignorant, then proceeded to post a definition of antisocial personality disorder ( the point I'd made that he took exception to) that described the exact behavior that I had cited in the ows crowd. So he agrees with me while claiming to disagree. I don't know what to say in response to that. By the way service gamer, I work about 70 hours a week and I worked way more than that when I was your age. (Success takes sacrifice, so keep at it.) And I do volunteer work and raise a family. I visit this site for fun occasionally because I stumbled upon it last year and I thought some of the people who post here were kind of interesting, even when I disagree with them. Sorry if you think I've been ignoring you, but I won't bother replying when your posts are so off base (see above).
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Kathryn O:
rich n:
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sorry dude. just not true.
For sure, Kathryn O. Epic. Fail. Conservative b.s. is finally beginning to unravel, becoming so transparent that it's not as effective with even their base as it once was. Fake outrage, phony morals, pretending to be fiscally conservative (when they've clearly ballooned the deficit every chance they got since the 1940s)... ...they fooled their base with all that for years.
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^^^^^
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rich n:
^^^^^
The deficit TRIPLED while Reagan was President. Shall I go into what W. Bush did with Clinton's surplus? Shall I go into how the Republicans ignored the CBO's warnings about their deficit-increasing legislation during Bush's term? ObamaCare, as it is affectionately called, will REDUCE the deficiit over the next ten years. Obama's jobs bill is wholly paid for. What's so funny, my (truly) conservative friend? Why do you defend these false Republicans?
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rich n:
service_gamer:
The_Fool:
O.W.S. - How will you know you have gotten what you came for? How do you measure it? What is the end result? Example: When protesting the war - it can be measured by reducing the troops, having the troops come home, ending the war, and all agreements of war is over ..... yea our protest is over (for now). I ask these questions because there does not seem to be any clearly defined "exit strategy" , in the O.W.S. movement - that has been answered by a protester. Next, it really bothered me that someone posted earlier on this thread that it did not matter if the average everyday worker in these protest areas get pounded by not being able to get to their jobs, get to their customers or have their business torn up. (Especially their restrooms - that get damaged and cost them to repair) They are trying to make a living - they are not making millions - - but they lose money, sometimes jobs until this is over ..... the wrong people are getting hurt and you say so what?! Just curious ..... who is giving the marching orders?
I agree that the OWS needs a stronger message, but I think the movement is still evolving. I think by no later than next year's elections we'll know what the movement is and how to quantify the effectiveness of it. As for your final point, I made a comment of the sort, but if you are indeed referencing me you are missing the point in a big way. First, I don't think there is any widespread occurrence of damaged businesses, it's just that the businesses are claiming the protesters are causing some non-OWS customers to avoid these businesses, cutting into their sales. I acknowledged that it sucks, but the corporate greed that permeates Wall Street poses an economic threat to countless more Americans than the relative few protesters pose to these businesses. I believe I quoted Star Trek, with the needs of the many needing to outweigh the needs of the few in this scenario. I wasn't saying that the small business owners should just take the negative effects and shut up, but that they need to see the bigger picture and direct their ire towards the corrupt members of Wall Street who've indirectly started this movement. I'm trying to think of a good analogy and though it needs some work here is what I've got. Picture a second grader who gets severely beaten up on his street by a middle schooler every day after school. To prevent the beatings from continuing the second grader takes a shortcut across his neighbors' yards, but in the process really mangles the landscaping on these households. Sure, the neighbors might get irked by the second grader, but those that can understand the big picture realize that the real problem is the violent middle schooler. If the neighbors help the second grader deal with the bully, they will make the street safer not only for him, but for all defenseless second graders who, based on unfair circumstances (in this case, age and size) can't stand a chance.
I understand that big picture - put the small guys out of business in hopes that they are forced into a change of philosophy and eventually join the frey in asking for free handouts...It's funny that the biggest indictment against Bin Laden and the Taliban was the involvment of innocent lives in their supposed fight for 'their cause'...What's so different about this?
No, you don't understand, because that's now what I'm saying at all. The big picture is that maybe the small guys will realize that we have ten percent of the country out of work looking for jobs while those responsible, many of whom work on Wall Street or are in that line of work haven't changed their greedy habits and instead claim that the disgruntled unemployed (almost 1/10 of the country) are a bunch of hippies that want handouts. You've got a job, I've got a job, that's great, but that's not the case for lots of Americans. And to sit here and claim that they are being lazy by protesting instead of working is pretty insulting to those who look for work on a daily basis and can't find it because no one is hiring (seriously, it's like watching the movie "Hoosiers" and rooting against Hickory High). And it's sad that someone foolishly believes in conservatism, but I guess there are none so blind as those who cannot see.
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EADG:
SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
Service gamer called me ignorant, then proceeded to post a definition of antisocial personality disorder ( the point I'd made that he took exception to) that described the exact behavior that I had cited in the ows crowd. So he agrees with me while claiming to disagree. I don't know what to say in response to that. By the way service gamer, I work about 70 hours a week and I worked way more than that when I was your age. (Success takes sacrifice, so keep at it.) And I do volunteer work and raise a family. I visit this site for fun occasionally because I stumbled upon it last year and I thought some of the people who post here were kind of interesting, even when I disagree with them. Sorry if you think I've been ignoring you, but I won't bother replying when your posts are so off base (see above).
Um, for starters, my definition of anti-social personality disorder (in short, those who violates others' rights) was nowhere to be found in your take on the OWS. You made the vague claims that they were acting childish, then said -- with not even a scintilla of evidence mind you -- that "obviously a large percentage of them have anti-social personality disorders." Forget the fact that you are under the mistaken impression that they have no right to protest in public areas (I hate to break it to you, but just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean that they aren't part of the general public) which would make sense why you don't understand my rebuke of your assertions. Instead, consider the contradictory nature of a "large percentage" of a large group of having anti-social
amount of hours." I love how you addressed your message to me even though rich n was the first to interject such discussion (which has no place here and only serves to misdirect us from the larger point...gee, is that a coincidence?), I merely replied that I work my fair share and am not just some out-of-work loser that you guys seem to think make up the bulk of the OWS. Oh, and I also don't need a holier-than-thou lecture on volunteer work, you have no idea what I do, nor I you, so being so preachy really has no place here. -
service_gamer:
EADG:
SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
Service gamer called me ignorant, then proceeded to post a definition of antisocial personality disorder ( the point I'd made that he took exception to) that described the exact behavior that I had cited in the ows crowd. So he agrees with me while claiming to disagree. I don't know what to say in response to that. By the way service gamer, I work about 70 hours a week and I worked way more than that when I was your age. (Success takes sacrifice, so keep at it.) And I do volunteer work and raise a family. I visit this site for fun occasionally because I stumbled upon it last year and I thought some of the people who post here were kind of interesting, even when I disagree with them. Sorry if you think I've been ignoring you, but I won't bother replying when your posts are so off base (see above).
Um, for starters, my definition of anti-social personality disorder (in short, those who violates others' rights) was nowhere to be found in your take on the OWS. You made the vague claims that they were acting childish, then said -- with not even a scintilla of evidence mind you -- that "obviously a large percentage of them have anti-social personality disorders." Forget the fact that you are under the mistaken impression that they have no right to protest in public areas (I hate to break it to you, but just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean that they aren't part of the general public) which would make sense why you don't understand my rebuke of your assertions. Instead, consider the contradictory nature of a "large percentage" of a large group of having anti-social
amount of hours." I love how you addressed your message to me even though rich n was the first to interject such discussion (which has no place here and only serves to misdirect us from the larger point...gee, is that a coincidence?), I merely replied that I work my fair share and am not just some out-of-work loser that you guys seem to think make up the bulk of the OWS. Oh, and I also don't need a holier-than-thou lecture on volunteer work, you have no idea what I do, nor I you, so being so preachy really has no place here.First - I didn't first interject anything...your accusations of 'post and run' (or how ever you worded it) 'interjected' the notion that you don't understand life (already obvious from your position on this)...have you tried visiting one of these occupy protests...The one here in Boston isn't too far away from Gov't Center and here's what I observe (many times with my daughter, who's only 13): 1) It truly is 95% homeless folks - you need to see it for yourself if you don't buy it. The 'intellects' that you see on TV come over after their done working on their own job, stay for a little while, then leave and go home to sleep in a warm bed while the homeless people are left to 'represent' the Occupy movement overnight while sleeping in tents. 2) I truly smells like you're visiting a country with subpar sewage system (my one experience to compare to was during a trip to Cozumel, Mexico) 3) If you're not readily identified as 'one orf them', you'll have at least a dozen 'folks' giving you the bird, or a gesture where they grab their crotch in an 'eff you' gesture...and most folks were minding their own business just walking past from their own point a to point b without no interest either way 3) The last time I was there - and I wish this hit the news, but I'm guessing it stayed under wraps because I never saw anything broadcast about it, a group of Occupiers broke ranks and went over to raise hell and demonstrate against the arrest of a terrorist (re: if you have any interest, look up Sudbury, MA man arrested/suspected of planning terrorist acts and having ties with Al Qaeda)...guess they forget to blog and brag about that like when they held a moment of silence for the whitehouse shooter (who by all rights should've had his brains spatter in different areas throughout Penn Ave)...The face put on by many of the police officers was priceless... 4) Many there (mostly the homeless, which as I mentioned before, is probably around 95%) believe they are there because they're eventually going to get free room and board out of the deal. If you don't buy any of these, you certain can go take a look for your self rather than reading the 'glorified' recaps on line or on the news. It's right near Gov't Center (I think the section is called Dewey Square)... I've been under the weather...but since I'm feeling better - maybe my daughter and I will hop on the T and hit the aqurium again (we're season pass holders - LOL)...I mention this because it will put us right in the proximity again and this time, I'll bring my camera...LOL
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Occupy Wall St - The Revolution Is Love
"Love is the felt experience of connection to another being. An economist says 'more for you is less for me.' But the lover knows that more of you is more for me too. If you love somebody their happiness is your happiness. Their pain is your pain. Your sense of self expands to include other beings. This shift of consciousness is universal in everybody, 99% and 1%." -
Occupy Wall Street protesters stay at $700-a-night hotel By CANDICE M. GIOVE November 20, 2011 He claims he chose the W for its convenience, not its luxury. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_cra_pad_s31YWPjPTt0TYuxLGnu7IK
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rich n:
service_gamer:
EADG:
SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
Service gamer called me ignorant, then proceeded to post a definition of antisocial personality disorder ( the point I'd made that he took exception to) that described the exact behavior that I had cited in the ows crowd. So he agrees with me while claiming to disagree. I don't know what to say in response to that. By the way service gamer, I work about 70 hours a week and I worked way more than that when I was your age. (Success takes sacrifice, so keep at it.) And I do volunteer work and raise a family. I visit this site for fun occasionally because I stumbled upon it last year and I thought some of the people who post here were kind of interesting, even when I disagree with them. Sorry if you think I've been ignoring you, but I won't bother replying when your posts are so off base (see above).
Um, for starters, my definition of anti-social personality disorder (in short, those who violates others' rights) was nowhere to be found in your take on the OWS. You made the vague claims that they were acting childish, then said -- with not even a scintilla of evidence mind you -- that "obviously a large percentage of them have anti-social personality disorders." Forget the fact that you are under the mistaken impression that they have no right to protest in public areas (I hate to break it to you, but just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean that they aren't part of the general public) which would make sense why you don't understand my rebuke of your assertions. Instead, consider the contradictory nature of a "large percentage" of a large group of having anti-social
amount of hours." I love how you addressed your message to me even though rich n was the first to interject such discussion (which has no place here and only serves to misdirect us from the larger point...gee, is that a coincidence?), I merely replied that I work my fair share and am not just some out-of-work loser that you guys seem to think make up the bulk of the OWS. Oh, and I also don't need a holier-than-thou lecture on volunteer work, you have no idea what I do, nor I you, so being so preachy really has no place here.First - I didn't first interject anything...your accusations of 'post and run' (or how ever you worded it) 'interjected' the notion that you don't understand life (already obvious from your position on this)...have you tried visiting one of these occupy protests...The one here in Boston isn't too far away from Gov't Center and here's what I observe (many times with my daughter, who's only 13): 1) It truly is 95% homeless folks - you need to see it for yourself if you don't buy it. The 'intellects' that you see on TV come over after their done working on their own job, stay for a little while, then leave and go home to sleep in a warm bed while the homeless people are left to 'represent' the Occupy movement overnight while sleeping in tents. 2) I truly smells like you're visiting a country with subpar sewage system (my one experience to compare to was during a trip to Cozumel, Mexico) 3) If you're not readily identified as 'one orf them', you'll have at least a dozen 'folks' giving you the bird, or a gesture where they grab their crotch in an 'eff you' gesture...and most folks were minding their own business just walking past from their own point a to point b without no interest either way 3) The last time I was there - and I wish this hit the news, but I'm guessing it stayed under wraps because I never saw anything broadcast about it, a group of Occupiers broke ranks and went over to raise hell and demonstrate against the arrest of a terrorist (re: if you have any interest, look up Sudbury, MA man arrested/suspected of planning terrorist acts and having ties with Al Qaeda)...guess they forget to blog and brag about that like when they held a moment of silence for the whitehouse shooter (who by all rights should've had his brains spatter in different areas throughout Penn Ave)...The face put on by many of the police officers was priceless... 4) Many there (mostly the homeless, which as I mentioned before, is probably around 95%) believe they are there because they're eventually going to get free room and board out of the deal. If you don't buy any of these, you certain can go take a look for your self rather than reading the 'glorified' recaps on line or on the news. It's right near Gov't Center (I think the section is called Dewey Square)... I've been under the weather...but since I'm feeling better - maybe my daughter and I will hop on the T and hit the aqurium again (we're season pass holders - LOL)...I mention this because it will put us right in the proximity again and this time, I'll bring my camera...LOL
You brought up the number of hours you worked, not me, then I was chastised for mentioning by EADG...sorry to tell you, but it was introduced into the discussion by you. At the end of the day, it's an Internet message board and it's fun to get into these little ideological arguments, but some of these revisionist history responses I'm getting from you guys -- even when I can plainly refer back to the original posts (and do) -- is getting annoying. Now, on to your observations. The Occupy protests I've witnessed in Indianapolis and on the Indiana University campus isn't full of homeless folks. Sure, some mill around, particularly in the Indy area, but it sure as heck wasn't even close to 95%, maybe 5%. You are making such assertions and the burden of proof has to be on you; you can't just say 'Oh, it's the homeless people in tents, the actual protesters go home' when I doubt you've done the requisite research and observation to make such claims. And besides, if these tent camps were 95% homeless people, camping out in parks in such numbers would have been happening long before the OWS. Also, let's just play devil's advocate and assume your 95% assertion was right; who cares? Are homeless people not allowed to protest against greed and corruption, or have you bought into the conservative propaganda that anyone who isn't rich and/or votes Republican is a leech that's trying to manipulate the system? 2) It didn't smell at either of the places I went to. So again, maybe Boston is the anomaly, maybe Indiana is the anomaly, either way, I'm not making such judgments (and again, this just reeks -- pun intended -- of trying to distract from the issue, as what does this ancillary factor really have to do with the actual argument at hand?). 3) Not in my experience, and again, you offer no proof other than your word. Considering your views on these people, that makes this claim pretty flimsy. 4) Again, you make these accusations with no proof. And the 'you'll just have to believe me, if not research this guy' is laughable. Give me the name of this alleged OWS-worshiped terrorist and I'll do the research, but it shouldn't be on me to educate myself on this guy (even if it did happen, there's fringe elements in every day life; if you think this reflects on the entire movement, then can we discuss about how racist Tea Partiers, as well as the U.S. South, is?). What you are doing is classic misdirection propaganda. That sounds pretty extreme, and you may not realize that's what you are doing, but you are interjecting opinion without proof and trying to pass it off as some sort of on-the-field firsthand account. You really expect me to believe you've gleaned all this information in one of your visits? Sounds fishy at best. 5) This doesn't really make sense to me, unless room-and-board is some sort of weak entitlement joke. I don't live in Boston, otherwise I would, but I've taken a look at the protests in my area and NONE of the behavior you have described is on display. Again, maybe Indy isn't indicative of the larger movement, maybe Boston isn't, but to make such negative accusations the burden of proof has to be on you. Oh, and while you are uploading your aquarium visit pictures onto the board, maybe you can include a couple snaps of this: http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ows-pepper-spray-e1321736361456.jpg?w=567&h=406 or this: http://rt.com/files/usa/news/police-occupy-seattle-francisco-503/seattle-activist-protest-rainey.n.jpg Boy, these protesters are just out of control...LOL
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Andy_Shofar:
Occupy Wall Street protesters stay at $700-a-night hotel By CANDICE M. GIOVE November 20, 2011 He claims he chose the W for its convenience, not its luxury. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_cra_pad_s31YWPjPTt0TYuxLGnu7IK
You do realize this isn't class warfare, right? I know conservatives love that term, but the OWS isn't against wealth, it's against greed. There is a difference.
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Interview with a pepper-sprayed UC Davis student http://boingboing.net/2011/11/20/ucdeyetwitness.html
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service_gamer:
Andy_Shofar:
Occupy Wall Street protesters stay at $700-a-night hotel By CANDICE M. GIOVE November 20, 2011 He claims he chose the W for its convenience, not its luxury. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_cra_pad_s31YWPjPTt0TYuxLGnu7IK
You do realize this isn't class warfare, right? I know conservatives love that term, but the OWS isn't against wealth, it's against greed. There is a difference.
Don't cover-up all the bad & harm OWS did against local, small businesses - I thinks it's fair to call that "greed".
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service_gamer:
rich n:
service_gamer:
EADG:
SusyLuvsPaul:
The Occupy movement isn't asking for "free handouts," that's simplifying , it is purposefully misunderstanding what they're about, rather. It's a head in the sand reactionary pose. Servicegamer certainly seems to know what he's talking about and makes sense. No fuzzy hedging and focusing on trivialities and distractions. He sounds like he took Logic courses in college, and learned how to think. I'll go by what he says rather than you conservative types
Service gamer called me ignorant, then proceeded to post a definition of antisocial personality disorder ( the point I'd made that he took exception to) that described the exact behavior that I had cited in the ows crowd. So he agrees with me while claiming to disagree. I don't know what to say in response to that. By the way service gamer, I work about 70 hours a week and I worked way more than that when I was your age. (Success takes sacrifice, so keep at it.) And I do volunteer work and raise a family. I visit this site for fun occasionally because I stumbled upon it last year and I thought some of the people who post here were kind of interesting, even when I disagree with them. Sorry if you think I've been ignoring you, but I won't bother replying when your posts are so off base (see above).
Um, for starters, my definition of anti-social personality disorder (in short, those who violates others' rights) was nowhere to be found in your take on the OWS. You made the vague claims that they were acting childish, then said -- with not even a scintilla of evidence mind you -- that "obviously a large percentage of them have anti-social personality disorders." Forget the fact that you are under the mistaken impression that they have no right to protest in public areas (I hate to break it to you, but just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean that they aren't part of the general public) which would make sense why you don't understand my rebuke of your assertions. Instead, consider the contradictory nature of a "large percentage" of a large group of having anti-social
amount of hours." I love how you addressed your message to me even though rich n was the first to interject such discussion (which has no place here and only serves to misdirect us from the larger point...gee, is that a coincidence?), I merely replied that I work my fair share and am not just some out-of-work loser that you guys seem to think make up the bulk of the OWS. Oh, and I also don't need a holier-than-thou lecture on volunteer work, you have no idea what I do, nor I you, so being so preachy really has no place here.First - I didn't first interject anything...your accusations of 'post and run' (or how ever you worded it) 'interjected' the notion that you don't understand life (already obvious from your position on this)...have you tried visiting one of these occupy protests...The one here in Boston isn't too far away from Gov't Center and here's what I observe (many times with my daughter, who's only 13): 1) It truly is 95% homeless folks - you need to see it for yourself if you don't buy it. The 'intellects' that you see on TV come over after their done working on their own job, stay for a little while, then leave and go home to sleep in a warm bed while the homeless people are left to 'represent' the Occupy movement overnight while sleeping in tents. 2) I truly smells like you're visiting a country with subpar sewage system (my one experience to compare to was during a trip to Cozumel, Mexico) 3) If you're not readily identified as 'one orf them', you'll have at least a dozen 'folks' giving you the bird, or a gesture where they grab their crotch in an 'eff you' gesture...and most folks were minding their own business just walking past from their own point a to point b without no interest either way 3) The last time I was there - and I wish this hit the news, but I'm guessing it stayed under wraps because I never saw anything broadcast about it, a group of Occupiers broke ranks and went over to raise hell and demonstrate against the arrest of a terrorist (re: if you have any interest, look up Sudbury, MA man arrested/suspected of planning terrorist acts and having ties with Al Qaeda)...guess they forget to blog and brag about that like when they held a moment of silence for the whitehouse shooter (who by all rights should've had his brains spatter in different areas throughout Penn Ave)...The face put on by many of the police officers was priceless... 4) Many there (mostly the homeless, which as I mentioned before, is probably around 95%) believe they are there because they're eventually going to get free room and board out of the deal. If you don't buy any of these, you certain can go take a look for your self rather than reading the 'glorified' recaps on line or on the news. It's right near Gov't Center (I think the section is called Dewey Square)... I've been under the weather...but since I'm feeling better - maybe my daughter and I will hop on the T and hit the aqurium again (we're season pass holders - LOL)...I mention this because it will put us right in the proximity again and this time, I'll bring my camera...LOL
You brought up the number of hours you worked, not me, then I was chastised for mentioning by EADG...sorry to tell you, but it was introduced into the discussion by you. At the end of the day, it's an Internet message board and it's fun to get into these little ideological arguments, but some of these revisionist history responses I'm getting from you guys -- even when I can plainly refer back to the original posts (and do) -- is getting annoying. Now, on to your observations. The Occupy protests I've witnessed in Indianapolis and on the Indiana University campus isn't full of homeless folks. Sure, some mill around, particularly in the Indy area, but it sure as heck wasn't even close to 95%, maybe 5%. You are making such assertions and the burden of proof has to be on you; you can't just say 'Oh, it's the homeless people in tents, the actual protesters go home' when I doubt you've done the requisite research and observation to make such claims. And besides, if these tent camps were 95% homeless people, camping out in parks in such numbers would have been happening long before the OWS. Also, let's just play devil's advocate and assume your 95% assertion was right; who cares? Are homeless people not allowed to protest against greed and corruption, or have you bought into the conservative propaganda that anyone who isn't rich and/or votes Republican is a leech that's trying to manipulate the system? 2) It didn't smell at either of the places I went to. So again, maybe Boston is the anomaly, maybe Indiana is the anomaly, either way, I'm not making such judgments (and again, this just reeks -- pun intended -- of trying to distract from the issue, as what does this ancillary factor really have to do with the actual argument at hand?). 3) Not in my experience, and again, you offer no proof other than your word. Considering your views on these people, that makes this claim pretty flimsy. 4) Again, you make these accusations with no proof. And the 'you'll just have to believe me, if not research this guy' is laughable. Give me the name of this alleged OWS-worshiped terrorist and I'll do the research, but it shouldn't be on me to educate myself on this guy (even if it did happen, there's fringe elements in every day life; if you think this reflects on the entire movement, then can we discuss about how racist Tea Partiers, as well as the U.S. South, is?). What you are doing is classic misdirection propaganda. That sounds pretty extreme, and you may not realize that's what you are doing, but you are interjecting opinion without proof and trying to pass it off as some sort of on-the-field firsthand account. You really expect me to believe you've gleaned all this information in one of your visits? Sounds fishy at best. 5) This doesn't really make sense to me, unless room-and-board is some sort of weak entitlement joke. I don't live in Boston, otherwise I would, but I've taken a look at the protests in my area and NONE of the behavior you have described is on display. Again, maybe Indy isn't indicative of the larger movement, maybe Boston isn't, but to make such negative accusations the burden of proof has to be on you. Oh, and while you are uploading your aquarium visit pictures onto the board, maybe you can include a couple snaps of this: http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ows-pepper-spray-e1321736361456.jpg?w=567&h=406 or this: http://rt.com/files/usa/news/police-occupy-seattle-francisco-503/seattle-activist-protest-rainey.n.jpg Boy, these protesters are just out of control...LOL
For - as you request, a snippet from an article... "BOSTON ? A pharmacy college graduate made a defiant appearance in federal court Wednesday, hours after being charged with conspiring with two other men in a terror plot to kill two prominent U.S. politicians and carry out a holy war by attacking shoppers in U.S. malls and American troops in Iraq. Authorities say the men's plans ? in which they used code words like "peanut butter and jelly" for fighting in Somalia and "culinary school" for terrorist camps ? were thwarted in part when they could not find training and were unable to buy automatic weapons, authorities said. Tarek Mehanna, 27, was arrested Wednesday morning at his parents' home in Sudbury, an upscale suburb 20 miles west of Boston, and appeared for a brief hearing later in the day. When ordered by the judge to stand to hear the charge against him, he refused. He finally did stand ? tossing his chair loudly to the floor ? only after his father urged him to do so." And then silly me - what I observed did make the news...LOL "Members of Occupy Boston walked from their encampment at Dewey Square to the federal courthouse, where they staged a protest on behalf of Mehanna"...is the headline of a photo associated with this (see below) article... http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/2011/10/trial-homegrown-terrorist-begin-today/6FU5TxE91cw3IKdM1Cc1rI/index.html And you use the example of a college campus protest (wannabes actually) as a means of 'painting the picture' of a 'typical' occupy camp!?!?!? Are you eff'n kidding me?!?!?!? Why don't you head into a real city and see what they're really about?
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Occupy Wall Street? How about occupy a job?