The ..2012.... Political thread
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The_Fool:
I am talking about the Politicians advancing an agenda - to me this is just like protesting at a funeral - there is a time and place for discussion - but don't use this time of tragedy to stand on your Political soap box and push something through. Especially things that don't even relate - but since the cameras are rolling the politicians see an opportunity - that to me is just pond scum.
That's all - it's not about whether Sarah Palin (or any of the numerous others who do the same thing) is right or wrong...it's all about timing - it sucked
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thank you rich n fool...for not getting on a political soapbox if we had peace on earth...we'd have peace on earth...but, we don't and i am sure...that it is everyone else's fault...that we don't
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What "sucked" was all those people getting hurt/killed (Not "timing") It's hard to lose sight of that dire fact. That's the big picture.
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rich n:
SusyLuvsPaul:
"advancing an agenda" or exploring reasons which may have contributed to this happening? Trying to understand and discover? Digging in depth? Gathering facts and info? It bugs me to hear it's just "advancing an agenda." It's irksome. As if the situation needed any more exacerbation.
Actually, now the media (especially the outlets that support the 'left') are trying to segragate this ... 2) Sarah was still wrong for doing this. ...
But you can you agree that it's inappropriate, right? Nevermind her right to use crosshairs.
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audi:
rich n:
SusyLuvsPaul:
"advancing an agenda" or exploring reasons which may have contributed to this happening? Trying to understand and discover? Digging in depth? Gathering facts and info? It bugs me to hear it's just "advancing an agenda." It's irksome. As if the situation needed any more exacerbation.
Actually, now the media (especially the outlets that support the 'left') are trying to segragate this ... 2) Sarah was still wrong for doing this. ...
But you can you agree that it's inappropriate, right? Nevermind her right to use crosshairs.
I will concede that this kind of violent imagery used by politicians in general has gone overboard - I refuse to make Sarah a scapegoat since she's only doing what many politicians are doing...they need to collectively stop...And it falls far outside the political arena too, although I stop short of believing we need any type of censorship Back to the topic, since numerous members of both parties seem to be using same/similar tactics (low and behold, it turns out the Dems also have many samples of these 'target' graphics as well), they should clean the slate and give warning that any future baloney will result in serious repercussions - then let law makers decide what those repercussions are.
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I don't think enough politicians have been voted out of office Two term limit accross the board: governors senators mayors congresspeople freeholders (NJ) counsel people presidents etc, etc ....
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SusyLuvsPaul:
What "sucked" was all those people getting hurt/killed (Not "timing") It's hard to lose sight of that dire fact. That's the big picture.
What's hard to lose sight of is the whole picture - and granted, the loss of life tops the list of what's important in the 'whole picture'. However, the behavior of some politicians and misguided debates regarding Sarah Palin's influence comes in second (albeit a distant second) on the list of prioritizing the many facets to come out of Saturday's events...and you certainly have participated in that, despite this new attempt to divert the attention back to the victims (the attention should never have been on anything but the victims and their families - but unfortunately, the media and politics got in the way...big shock there : ) I refuse to look at a picture full of wrongs and ignore some of those 'wrongs' simply because fall short of the big story (the deaths)...the fact is, from my seat here in Boston, I can do very little but offer prayers and wishes to the families...
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I came close to not entering this thread and keeping silent - then someone said to me .... that by staying silent or saying nothing - you are still saying something .... So I put my words in here.
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From the above posts you can see that the republican/conservative manner of dealing with this tragedy (and most problems really) is to do nothing as things will take care of themselves. The democratic/liberals look at it as a chance to prevent it from happening again and to make our lives safer and more secure...it's a basic policy difference. What we have in our society now is mainly the result of mostly 30 years of republican/conservative policies. The financial crisis was the result of deregulation of Wall Street...the republicans believe 'business should be able to do anything it needs to do to make a profit. The gulf oil spill was the result of a private company BP cutting corners on safety for more profit. The current shooting tragedy has several roots 1) the shooter was obviously mentally ill...why was he allowed to carry a gun?...Because republicans believe that one of americans most treasured rights is to carry a gun..and don't try to regulate who can carry that gun...government regulation is'unamerican' and 2) republican leaders in the media...Palin, Limbaugh, Beck etc. who pound anti government doctrine into the weak minded and arouse fear among those less capable of dealing with it Example: during the Health Care debate " death panels will kill your Grandma" what BS. FEAR SELLS and that is why Limbaugh, Beck, Oreilly etc. make so much money. The weak minded who shallow this sh** really can't do anything ...they are 'ditto heads' but Rupert Murdock and his like can do something to stop this atmosphere of hate and fear...but will they? How can someone as old as Murdock think that making money is the only goal...perhaps he's figured out a way to take it with him? Trying to prevent a tragedy from happening again is not politicizing...it is what we all should be doing. Tougher gun regulations, increase funding for the mentally ill not cutting funding for the mentally ill. And trying to make the public airwaves less poisoning so that those who are unable to divorce fact from fiction are not whipped into a frenzy of hate and fear. praying isn't going to do any good only constructive action will
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Really - the last 30 years? I don't even know where to start? Political Correctness (PC) to the point where you're treading a scary line by even acknowledging someone's race, ethnicity, or gender is a leftist trait...The fact that we're becoming a nation who wants to shake Osama Bin Laden's hand and ask for _his_forgiveness is a leftist trait...The fact that we had a Democratic President (Bill Clinton) who sewed the seeds to how real estate (and subsequently the rest of our economy) issues we now face...but blame the following president for not being able to reverse the trends, but then we are asked to forgive this president's shortcomings/failures on the fact that he in turn, inherited this country's problems when took oath - is a leftist trait. The fact that one of the TSA's tactics includes grabbing your crotch while going through airport security is a leftist trait. The fact that you actually have to decline going through the scanner in order to obtain these 'love pats'(a phrase coined by Democrats), and actually making that choice to do so, then getting offended after the fact in the name of blaming of somehow blaming former President Bush for this action is a leftist trait...the fact that Pres Bush only lost control of our economy once he lost the house majority is a lefist trait...and it goes on and on...Oh yeah...one more thing...having had a tragedy just occur and while the wounds are still bleeding and the bodies are still warm, blaming innocent bystanders in the name of a political agenda; and swaying back and forth between trying to blame the said person and trying to blame the other side for averting the attention away from the immediate priority (the health/wellbeing of the victims and families affected by the tragedy)....is a leftist trait. Basically the argument from my point was 'the tragedy is too fresh to get into some of these debates while everyone wants to bash Sara Palin...finally you goad me into saying your argument of blaming Palin is insane and insensitive and you change the topic to 'oh, we should only be worrying about the victims right now (more or less taking up my initial argument to begin with ) Some of 'you' seem to have some sense in that despite showing signs of not wanting anything to do with Sarah Palin, at least acknowledging the tactics used in today's political landscape is often inappropriate -but spreads across both sides of the isle. Then there are some of you that just sounds plain ol' nuts (maybe even being Bin Laden himself with a ambiguous screen name)...then the last few seem like they just want to follow 'Paul McCartney Politics', whatever they are on a given day
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weak minded indeed...and misinformed which generally go together. It is never too early to try to prevent another tragedy. Perhaps if our gun laws had been stricter the shooter may not have been able to purchase the gun. Perhaps if there was more funding for the mentally ill and if mental illness treatment was considered a right under the health care law..the same as treatment for cancer. And perhaps if some responsibility was taken to see that the rhetoric on public airwaves was not inflammatory to the most vulnerable. Perhaps this tragedy would not have happened. It is never to early to prevent another innocent death.
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rich n:
Really - the last 30 years? I don't even know where to start? Political Correctness (PC) to the point where you're treading a scary line by even acknowledging someone's race, ethnicity, or gender is a leftist trait...The fact that we're becoming a nation who wants to shake Osama Bin Laden's hand and ask for _his_forgiveness is a leftist trait...The fact that we had a Democratic President (Bill Clinton) who sewed the seeds to how real estate (and subsequently the rest of our economy) issues we now face...but blame the following president for not being able to reverse the trends, but then we are asked to forgive this president's shortcomings/failures on the fact that he in turn, inherited this country's problems when took oath - is a leftist trait. The fact that one of the TSA's tactics includes grabbing your crotch while going through airport security is a leftist trait. The fact that you actually have to decline going through the scanner in order to obtain these 'love pats'(a phrase coined by Democrats), and actually making that choice to do so, then getting offended after the fact in the name of blaming of somehow blaming former President Bush for this action is a leftist trait...the fact that Pres Bush only lost control of our economy once he lost the house majority is a lefist trait...and it goes on and on...Oh yeah...one more thing...having had a tragedy just occur and while the wounds are still bleeding and the bodies are still warm, blaming innocent bystanders in the name of a political agenda; and swaying back and forth between trying to blame the said person and trying to blame the other side for averting the attention away from the immediate priority (the health/wellbeing of the victims and families affected by the tragedy)....is a leftist trait. Basically the argument from my point was 'the tragedy is too fresh to get into some of these debates while everyone wants to bash Sara Palin...finally you goad me into saying your argument of blaming Palin is insane and insensitive and you change the topic to 'oh, we should only be worrying about the victims right now (more or less taking up my initial argument to begin with ) Some of 'you' seem to have some sense in that despite showing signs of not wanting anything to do with Sarah Palin, at least acknowledging the tactics used in today's political landscape is often inappropriate -but spreads across both sides of the isle. Then there are some of you that just sounds plain ol' nuts (maybe even being Bin Laden himself with a ambiguous screen name)...then the last few seem like they just want to follow 'Paul McCartney Politics', whatever they are on a given day
Rich: I'll grant you that "PC" went to the extreme at one point. I'll grant you that some liberal-minded folks are directing their horror from this weekend's tragedy at Sarah Palin too ... well ... liberally. However, can you do this for me? List an error or two from any political/social leader on your team. I don't hear conservatives acknowledge the catastrophic blunders made by Republicans enough.* *And by the way: Bill Clinton couldn't have signed that real estate debacle into law if the Republican Congress hadn't passed it.
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Republican errors: Bush rushed into the war in Iraq. With that said, I still support the idea that we had to go. But obviously we were not prepared to do the job (I think the fact that Saddam is history helped salvage some face). I also don't think he did enough to win full global support. It seems when he didn't have a given country fully convinced to jump on board, he tried to strong arm them instead of continuing to work with them. The McCain/Palin card was a debacle with all sorts of problems, ranging from personal conflicts to straight out blunders (mostly due to not being on the 'same page' as each other)...They never had a chance given the fact that the public in general associated the increasingly difficult times with George Bush and as fall out from that, Republicans in general. Their compaign was way too complacent in how they approached that (and related) topics... Bush actually initiated these 'bailout' bills several years ago - it didn't help then, and Obama continuing to carry that torch isn't any better That's a three so far...
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Your integrity is OK in my book. I think you give them a tad too much credit in terms of their motives, but we almost agree. (A chorus of "Ebony & Ivory," eveyone?)
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some good news on this somber day. The new Health law signed in 2010 includes expanded coverage for mental health to those who do not have insurance http://www.bazelon.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=HJ7Q6AM8AHM%3d&tabid=221 let's hope the republicans don't repeal it as they have promised to do The expansion of Community Health Centers in the new Health Care Law also includes mental health services be available to all at the Community Health Centers.
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Let face facts if this kid had had accessed to mental health care than this tragedy might never had happen. I betting his parents didn't have insurances and there wasn't anyone to help them get him the help he needed. Palin speech today was so canned and staged. Why does this woman not allow anyone to interview her? Afraid to have to act on her feet and respond without a coach? What is is she going to do in the " big shoes"when she is President? Call Fox news and ask them what to do? Doesn't america even want to pretend there voting in a person as a leader. Are we all so passive we will just vote in a face with good lighting and don't care who is behind her? We went to war over artist rendering can a presidential elect win off acting and good lighting? Her speech still fell short. If Palin knew her history, which clearly she does not. She would know William Randolf Hearst faced this same back lash when he printed in one of his magazine a equally outrageous statement directed at President McKinley 'If bad institutions and bad men can be got rid of only by killing, then the killing must be done.' 6 months later McKinley was assassinated. Hearst did exactly what Palin is trying to do, distant herself from it and deny it. Bottom line american didn't like that kind of politics and Hearst lost his bid..The blame fell on him and that was back before spin was heard of. Fox and Palin and her handlers made a big mistake....huge!! She can spin away but shes political poison. Where is all her Rep buddy? Where is McCain.? Hding? In fact where was fox today..there not even touching her she went on face book..how cheap is that. We can only hope the family of friends of these victims comes out and point blank blames Palin and puts the final nail in her political coffin
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If she really intends to run -- I doubt it -- I hope that she realizes that she'll have to stop relying on random tweets, folksy slogans and soft-ball questions from like-minded, conservative journalists. Notice how Republicans don't play up that family values angle anymore? You betcha'.
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I hated it when rich n called democrats "the demon party." Why "demons" the Democrats started out and still are for the poor, working class, middle class and stand up for them and trying to help the less fortunate, etc. What's "demonic" about that? And being more idealistic and compassionate
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SusyLuvsPaul:
I hated it when rich n called democrats "the demon party." Why "demons" the Democrats started out and still are for the poor, working class, middle class and stand up for them and trying to help the less fortunate, etc. What's "demonic" about that? And being more idealistic and compassionate
"Demon" is a supposedly clever play on "Democrat" -- and, perhaps, a zinger at their religious tolerance, which is far more inclusive and lenient than the hypocritical, closet-case, money-embezzling, self-righteous, in-denial-about-Bush's-stupidity-and-evil, sexist Republicans.
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Thanks, audi...yeah, "clever" wordplay isn't it (not). That g----d d----n greedy dingbat Palin has f-----d up yet again, using the term "blood libel" in denouncing various denouncements of her actions...bloodthirsty so has to get the word "blood" in there, doesn't she. Is drawing heat for that, now, too. Gun lovin' war lovin' bimbo. I tried to listen to an excrutiating rambling speech by her once, it was like Chinese water torture, just her accent and how she talked much less her values and way of thinking. It was the day the opportunistic vulture "stepped down" from being Gov. of Alaska, it was too much and too hard for her (I can understand that) and also she wished to be free to pursue various money making opportunities suddenly and inexplicably open to her. It's very strange how a person of her deficits and level of i.q. somehow rose to become governor in the first place. Murphy's Law had continued to prevail, and Palin was inexplicably and unwisely tapped as the V.P. to McCain. The Dems had a black candidate so the G.O.P. was striving for some degree of hipness and modernity in choosing a female running mate. That tactic turned around and bit them in the ass, 'cause the female was Palin. "Vanity Fair" really did a number on her in a fairly recent expose.