The Official Football/Soccer Thread: 2017-2018 Season
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If I post my predictions, I would give clues to unclesox bout my team at the Fantasy thing. I'll post them after the today's match has started.
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Going back to the disallowed goal that looked to have crossed the line... 1 - No mention on this board of the build up play leading to that goal/no goal moment. Ukrainian player was clearly offside. So in the end I suppose an argument could be made that the no goal call was justice for England in the end. Not that "two wrongs make a right", but two blown calls by the linesman and the assistant positioned behind the goal will likely end the appearance of Victor Kassai (arguably the best referee currently active) and his crew in this tournament. . 2 - Re those assistant officials that are positioned behind the goal, I don't think anyone knows what their role is exactly. Do they help on penalty/dive calls? Corner kick or goal kick? Foul or no foul? On one football/soccer message board I regularly frequent there is a refereeing section where amature refs discuss key/controversial moments they see on tv or are a part of in their own games. And even they are not sure what those officials behind the goals are there for. 3 - It seems that when England are the victims of circumstance, it's a case of, "Oh well, too bad. Those are the rules." But when a Chelsea defeats a Bayern Munich on penalties to deny Bayern of their dream of winning the Champions League in their own ground, Sepp Blatter suddenly believes that penalty kicks are not a proper way to decide games that are drawn after 120 minutes. With England now having benefited from a goal line clearance that looked to have crossed the line, should we look forward to FIFA and/or UEFA thinking that goal line technology may not be a bad idea after all? : (To be fair, Blatter has said he favors goal line technology [without the use of video replays]. Platini is the one who is against it in any form.)
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unclesox:
Going back to the disallowed goal that looked to have crossed the line... 1 - No mention on this board of the build up play leading to that goal/no goal moment. Ukrainian player was clearly offside. So in the end I suppose an argument could be made that the no goal call was justice for England in the end. Not that "two wrongs make a right", but two blown calls by the linesman and the assistant positioned behind the goal will likely end the appearance of Victor Kassai (arguably the best referee currently active) and his crew in this tournament. . 2 - Re those assistant officials that are positioned behind the goal, I don't think anyone knows what their role is exactly. Do they help on penalty/dive calls? Corner kick or goal kick? Foul or no foul? On one football/soccer message board I regularly frequent there is a refereeing section where amature refs discuss key/controversial moments they see on tv or are a part of in their own games. And even they are not sure what those officials behind the goals are there for. 3 - It seems that when England are the victims of circumstance, it's a case of, "Oh well, too bad. Those are the rules." But when a Chelsea defeats a Bayern Munich on penalties to deny Bayern of their dream of winning the Champions League in their own ground, Sepp Blatter suddenly believes that penalty kicks are not a proper way to decide games that are drawn after 120 minutes. With England now having benefited from a goal line clearance that looked to have crossed the line, should we look forward to FIFA and/or UEFA thinking that goal line technology may not be a bad idea after all? : (To be fair, Blatter has said he favors goal line technology [without the use of video replays]. Platini is the one who is against it in any form.)
so if goal line technology existed in 1966 then england may not have won the world even once!. believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..its just selective memory syndrome.
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Those "goal referees" are useless.... Well, my predictions for the quarters Czech vs Portugal 0-1 in the extra time (Pepe heading, N.Oliveira or CR7) Germany vs Greece 2-0 Mario Gomez and other Spain vs France 1-0 I don't know how... Fabregas? Italy vs England 1-1 and Italy wins the penalties. Goals in free kicks kicked by Pirlo and Gerrard. Whether a free kicked shot on target or a free kick doing a crossing to the area.
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lazydynamite88:
believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..
They only have one World Cup to show for it, though. I'm not exactly one who loves taking up the case of the Three Lions but for the sake of argument... Bad luck post-1966 -- 1970, Gordon Banks injured, misses quarterfinal v West Germany and England lose 3-2 in extra-time in scorching heat. -- 1978, Fail to qualify for World Cup on goal difference to Italy (three goal differential) -- 1986, Maradona's 'Hand of God' gives Argentina 1-0 lead. -- 1990, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1994, failed to qualify after losing 2-0 to Holland. First goal scored by Ronald Koeman who should have been sent off five minutes earlier after bringing down David Platt who was through on goal with only the keeper to beat. Koeman only received a yellow card. -- 1996, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1998, lost Round of 16 to Argentina via penalty kicks. A potential match winning goal by Alanj Sheaer in extra-time was ruled out for an apparent foul by Sol Campbell. -- 2004, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks -- 2006, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks. -- 2010, Lampard's shot v Germany crosses the goal line by some 2-3 yards but is ruled no goal. Okay, now list me the fair share of luck they've had over the years.
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21st Century Paul:
Czech vs Portugal 0-1 in the extra time (Pepe heading, N.Oliveira or CR7) Germany vs Greece 2-0 Mario Gomez and other Spain vs France 1-0 I don't know how... Fabregas? Italy vs England 1-1 and Italy wins the penalties. Goals in free kicks kicked by Pirlo and Gerrard. Whether a free kicked shot on target or a free kick doing a crossing to the area.
C.Ronaldo just headed Portugal into the lead, five minutes to go. Great job! I had... Portugal 4-1 Germany 2-0 Spain 2-0 Italy 2-1 So we're too not far off with our predictions except for the Portugal score.
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unclesox:
lazydynamite88:
believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..
They only have one World Cup to show for it, though. I'm not exactly one who loves taking up the case of the Three Lions but for the sake of argument... Bad luck post-1966 -- 1970, Gordon Banks injured, misses quarterfinal v West Germany and England lose 3-2 in extra-time in scorching heat. -- 1978, Fail to qualify for World Cup on goal difference to Italy (three goal differential) -- 1986, Maradona's 'Hand of God' gives Argentina 1-0 lead. -- 1990, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1994, failed to qualify after losing 2-0 to Holland. First goal scored by Ronald Koeman who should have been sent off five minutes earlier after bringing down David Platt who was through on goal with only the keeper to beat. Koeman only received a yellow card. -- 1996, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1998, lost Round of 16 to Argentina via penalty kicks. A potential match winning goal by Alanj Sheaer in extra-time was ruled out for an apparent foul by Sol Campbell. -- 2004, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks -- 2006, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks. -- 2010, Lampard's shot v Germany crosses the goal line by some 2-3 yards but is ruled no goal. Okay, now list me the fair share of luck they've had over the years.
only a few of these stand up, you can't blame the heat or the loss of a Banks in Mexico, even if the World cup was played in the North pole No one would have stopped that Brazil side who are arguably the greatest international team of all time. failing on goal difference, c'mon!!! scoring goals is what the game is all about, even back then England played like robots, if they had been better in front of goal the outcome COULD have been different, they would still have lost as no one could touch the Germans, not ever the brilliant Dutch team 1986 was the first time England qualified for the world cup since 1962, in 62 they qualified through the home internationals, Scotland refused to go as runners up, the hand of god may or may not have had a influence on the game, but nothing can take away the sheer brilliance of Maradonna's second. you blame the hand of god in 86 yet say a potential goal by Shearer was stopped by a potential foul by Campbell, that one doesnt add up. As for penalties, they are part and parcel of the game, you would think after all the disappointments they would practice more. for me England's failures are down to keeping it safe when they pick a manager and the fact they don't have that many truly world class players. the question is, will England ever won a European Championship or the world cup again? the answer would have to be no unless they start bringing more of their own players through, to many foreigners are playing in England, this is not a problem for other national leagues because they have players playing in all the leagues across Europe, how many top English players play for the best clubs on the continent.. none!!!
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Macsback:
unclesox:
lazydynamite88:
believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..
They only have one World Cup to show for it, though. I'm not exactly one who loves taking up the case of the Three Lions but for the sake of argument... Bad luck post-1966 -- 1970, Gordon Banks injured, misses quarterfinal v West Germany and England lose 3-2 in extra-time in scorching heat. -- 1978, Fail to qualify for World Cup on goal difference to Italy (three goal differential) -- 1986, Maradona's 'Hand of God' gives Argentina 1-0 lead. -- 1990, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1994, failed to qualify after losing 2-0 to Holland. First goal scored by Ronald Koeman who should have been sent off five minutes earlier after bringing down David Platt who was through on goal with only the keeper to beat. Koeman only received a yellow card. -- 1996, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1998, lost Round of 16 to Argentina via penalty kicks. A potential match winning goal by Alanj Sheaer in extra-time was ruled out for an apparent foul by Sol Campbell. -- 2004, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks -- 2006, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks. -- 2010, Lampard's shot v Germany crosses the goal line by some 2-3 yards but is ruled no goal. Okay, now list me the fair share of luck they've had over the years.
only a few of these stand up, you can't blame the heat or the loss of a Banks in Mexico, even if the World cup was played in the North pole No one would have stopped that Brazil side who are arguably the greatest international team of all time. failing on goal difference, c'mon!!! scoring goals is what the game is all about, even back then England played like robots, if they had been better in front of goal the outcome COULD have been different, they would still have lost as no one could touch the Germans, not ever the brilliant Dutch team 1986 was the first time England qualified for the world cup since 1962, in 62 they qualified through the home internationals, Scotland refused to go as runners up, the hand of god may or may not have had a influence on the game, but nothing can take away the sheer brilliance of Maradonna's second. you blame the hand of god in 86 yet say a potential goal by Shearer was stopped by a potential foul by Campbell, that one doesnt add up. As for penalties, they are part and parcel of the game, you would think after all the disappointments they would practice more. for me England's failures are down to keeping it safe when they pick a manager and the fact they don't have that many truly world class players. the question is, will England ever won a European Championship or the world cup again? the answer would have to be no unless they start bringing more of their own players through, to many foreigners are playing in England, this is not a problem for other national leagues because they have players playing in all the leagues across Europe, how many top English players play for the best clubs on the continent.. none!!!
Easily the biggest under achieves in world football. Every tournament they have a squad of players good enough to atleast reach the last 4. When was the last time they did that! There whole media circus are to blame aswell, bringing out stupid stories in time for tournaments. Also, the sheer arrogance and ignorance towards any other country in the world unless its maybe Brazil. 2010, all the pundits were claiming Thomas Muller would have no chance against Ashley Cole (most over rated left back in the world) and ended up scoring twice in a 4-1 win. And give the hand of god a rest. Maradona strolled past the whole team to score his second.
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unclesox:
21st Century Paul:
Czech vs Portugal 0-1 in the extra time (Pepe heading, N.Oliveira or CR7) Germany vs Greece 2-0 Mario Gomez and other Spain vs France 1-0 I don't know how... Fabregas? Italy vs England 1-1 and Italy wins the penalties. Goals in free kicks kicked by Pirlo and Gerrard. Whether a free kicked shot on target or a free kick doing a crossing to the area.
C.Ronaldo just headed Portugal into the lead, five minutes to go. Great job! I had... Portugal 4-1 Germany 2-0 Spain 2-0 Italy 2-1 So we're too not far off with our predictions except for the Portugal score.
Portugal is much better than the Czech but as if the Czech play defensive Portugal would have lots of problems to score, but still has some ways as they did. Italy... it depends if they play that 3-5-2 or the 4-4-2, if they play 3-5-2 I agree with your prediction but it seems they don't play it without Chiellini. France prepares a triple pivot, so I think Spain would have a lot of troubles to score. Germany is supposed to win easy, they'll do a lot of crossings... maybe 3-0. And Merkel herself will attend the match. So maybe she "advises" the Greeks to lose.
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unclesox:
lazydynamite88:
believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..
They only have one World Cup to show for it, though. I'm not exactly one who loves taking up the case of the Three Lions but for the sake of argument... Bad luck post-1966 -- 1970, Gordon Banks injured, misses quarterfinal v West Germany and England lose 3-2 in extra-time in scorching heat. -- 1978, Fail to qualify for World Cup on goal difference to Italy (three goal differential) -- 1986, Maradona's 'Hand of God' gives Argentina 1-0 lead. -- 1990, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1994, failed to qualify after losing 2-0 to Holland. First goal scored by Ronald Koeman who should have been sent off five minutes earlier after bringing down David Platt who was through on goal with only the keeper to beat. Koeman only received a yellow card. -- 1996, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1998, lost Round of 16 to Argentina via penalty kicks. A potential match winning goal by Alanj Sheaer in extra-time was ruled out for an apparent foul by Sol Campbell. -- 2004, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks -- 2006, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks. -- 2010, Lampard's shot v Germany crosses the goal line by some 2-3 yards but is ruled no goal. Okay, now list me the fair share of luck they've had over the years.
believe me there are many. 1966 eusebio of portugal has 4 [four] goals dissalowed against home team 'england' in the semi finals....nothing funny going on there then.! 1966 possibly influenced by the recentish war 'russian linesman' gives england a crucial goal that clearly didnt cross the line. 1990 england reach semi finals despite being outplayed by almost every team they played...after scrapping through their group where only egypt were elimenated,they score a last ditch extra time goal against the weakest last 16 team belgium..in the world cup quarter final england are handed the almost unbelievably lucky tie of cameroon...the african team however are the stronger team for most of the game and desrve their lead before the ref gives england 2 [two] very dubious penalties to put them[england] in the semis. 1990.third place play off england get well beaten by 'italy' despite the italians having two clear onside goals ruled offside..should have been 5.1 to italy instead of 3.1 1996. england get played off the park by spain in the first knockout stage and indeed the spanish are denied a clear penaltly in the second half..england go on to win on penalties but this is a little known secret as the english would rather portray themselves us unfortunate rather than fortunate. 1998 michael owen cheats and dives to win penalty against argentina 2002 michael owen cheats and dives [again] to win penalty against argentina im sure i could go on....for instance i seem to remember a couple of crucial calls for england againsat portugal in the infamous 'sol cambell' potugal game,but hey dont let facts get in the way of a good paranoid moan.
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unclesox:
lazydynamite88:
believe me england have had more than their fair share of luck down the years..
They only have one World Cup to show for it, though. I'm not exactly one who loves taking up the case of the Three Lions but for the sake of argument... Bad luck post-1966 -- 1970, Gordon Banks injured, misses quarterfinal v West Germany and England lose 3-2 in extra-time in scorching heat. -- 1978, Fail to qualify for World Cup on goal difference to Italy (three goal differential) -- 1986, Maradona's 'Hand of God' gives Argentina 1-0 lead. -- 1990, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1994, failed to qualify after losing 2-0 to Holland. First goal scored by Ronald Koeman who should have been sent off five minutes earlier after bringing down David Platt who was through on goal with only the keeper to beat. Koeman only received a yellow card. -- 1996, lost semifinal to Germany via penalty kicks. -- 1998, lost Round of 16 to Argentina via penalty kicks. A potential match winning goal by Alanj Sheaer in extra-time was ruled out for an apparent foul by Sol Campbell. -- 2004, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks -- 2006, lost quarterfinal to Portugal via penalty kicks. -- 2010, Lampard's shot v Germany crosses the goal line by some 2-3 yards but is ruled no goal. Okay, now list me the fair share of luck they've had over the years.
believe me there are many. 1966 eusebio of portugal has 4 [four] goals dissalowed against home team 'england' in the semi finals....nothing funny going on there then.! 1966 possibly influenced by the recentish war 'russian linesman' gives england a crucial goal that clearly didnt cross the line. 1990 england reach semi finals despite being outplayed by almost every team they played...after scrapping through their group where only egypt were elimenated,they score a last ditch extra time goal against the weakest last 16 team belgium..in the world cup quarter final england are handed the almost unbelievably lucky tie of cameroon...the african team however are the stronger team for most of the game and desrve their lead before the ref gives england 2 [two] very dubious penalties to put them[england] in the semis. 1990.third place play off england get well beaten by 'italy' despite the italians having two clear onside goals ruled offside..should have been 5.1 to italy instead of 3.1 1996. england get played off the park by spain in the first knockout stage and indeed the spanish are denied a clear penaltly in the second half..england go on to win on penalties but this is a little known secret as the english would rather portray themselves us unfortunate rather than fortunate. 1998 michael owen cheats and dives to win penalty against argentina 2002 michael owen cheats and dives [again] to win penalty against argentina im sure i could go on....for instance i seem to remember a couple of crucial calls for england againsat portugal in the infamous 'sol cambell' potugal game,but hey dont let facts get in the way of a good paranoid moan.
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Germany just wiped the floor with Greece. Greece got a sneeky couple in but Germany really owned the whole thing. Germany 4, Greece 2. Wouldn't fancy England facing Germany based on that performance!
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I just wondering if we should encourage the England team to capitulate to the Italians on Sunday... ... effectively denying the Germans bragging rights over us for another two years Then again any sport is a strange thing and who knows what might unfold... Martin
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I will be amazed to buggery if this ordinary England side led by an extraordinary captain can sweep past the Italians, elbow the Germans and overcome those tic-tacing Spanish to win the trophy in the next 6 days. But like you say Martin (or was it Greavsie), 'football is a funny old game'.
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well none of us guessed what happened yesterday. None thought that Germany's XI would be that.
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21st Century Paul:
well none of us guessed what happened yesterday. None thought that Germany's XI would be that.
Everyone was surprised with the three changes. Here in the U.S. the games are on ESPN and Michael Ballack is one of the pundits. He was dumbfounded by the changes although he still believed it would not affect the performance. After the game he felt Reus was the best of the three (Klose and Schürrle) and although he'd like to see Reus remain in the lineup he believes the regulars (Gomez, Podolski, Müller) will return for the semifinal. He also was not impressed with the defence conceding twice and would like to see Bender start for Boateng.
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lazydynamite88:
unclesox:
Bad luck post-1966
believe me there are many. 1966 eusebio of portugal has 4 [four] goals dissalowed against home team 'england' in the semi finals....nothing funny going on there then.! I asked for "post-1966" 1966 possibly influenced by the recentish war 'russian linesman' gives england a crucial goal that clearly didnt cross the line. "post-1966." But I will add another you forgot or may not have known about: The semi-final venues being switched. England-Portugal was supposed to be played at Goodison Park with West Germany-USSR at Wembley but they were switched because it was feared Wembley would not sell out the capacity for Germany-USSR. So it's been said. There was also the controversial sending off of Rattin of Argentina in the quarterfinals... we could go on and on about '66. 1990 england reach semi finals despite being outplayed by almost every team they played...after scrapping through their group where only egypt were elimenated,they score a last ditch extra time goal against the weakest last 16 team belgium.. "weakest"? If they had advanced as a third-placed team you may have had an argument. Uruguay and Colombia looked weaker. .. in the world cup quarter final england are handed the almost unbelievably lucky tie of cameroon...the african team however are the stronger team for most of the game and desrve their lead before the ref gives england 2 [two] very dubious penalties to put them[england] in the semis. I'll give you this one. Still, in the end they didn't lift the trophy so what good did this "luck" have? I would also debate your opening line of "handed a lucky tie". Cameroon won their group that included Argentina and USSR, and with the matchups having been determned during the draw the previous December the matchup turned out the way it did because both England and Cameroon won their groups. No luck there as both teams earned their way to the quarterfinals. I felt England got stronger as the tournament went on and were the better team against Germany in the semifinals on the night. Even Germany's goal was pure luck, let alone the penalties. So on the night I felt England were the better team, but over the course of the entire tournament Germany were the rightful winners, imo. 1990.third place play off... I quit reading right there. There's a reason why UEFA quit playing those consolation games since 1984... they're worthless. 1996. england get played off the park by spain in the first knockout stage and indeed the spanish are denied a clear penaltly in the second half..england go on to win on penalties but this is a little known secret as the english would rather portray themselves us unfortunate rather than fortunate. Okay, I'll give you this one too. Still, in the end... 1998 michael owen cheats and dives to win penalty against argentina I had to go to youtube because I couldn't remember the play... okay, that's three for you. 2002 michael owen cheats and dives [again] to win penalty against argentina No doubt about this one. Four. 2002 was a case of England playing well in the first half then melting in the heat of the second half. The only second half goal they scored in Japan/Korea was in the cool air of the domed stadium in Saitama and, as you say here, even that was a crock. im sure i could go on....for instance i seem to remember a couple of crucial calls for england againsat portugal in the infamous 'sol cambell' potugal game,but hey dont let facts get in the way of a good paranoid moan.
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dear unclesox with the greatest respect you did ask me to name 'lucky breaks' england have had post 1966,you are correct . however if you also add the caveat of ...."I'll give you this one. Still, in the end they didn't lift the trophy so what good did this "luck" have?" then surely even by your own rules you leave me with an impossible task as england havent even come close to winning a major championship before or since. infact i dont even count the 1966 triumph as valid..it was more of a series of home wins in an outdated international series that expanded into a genuine world competition in the 1970s.
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unclesox:
21st Century Paul:
well none of us guessed what happened yesterday. None thought that Germany's XI would be that.
Everyone was surprised with the three changes. Here in the U.S. the games are on ESPN and Michael Ballack is one of the pundits. He was dumbfounded by the changes although he still believed it would not affect the performance. After the game he felt Reus was the best of the three (Klose and Schürrle) and although he'd like to see Reus remain in the lineup he believes the regulars (Gomez, Podolski, Müller) will return for the semifinal. He also was not impressed with the defence conceding twice and would like to see Bender start for Boateng.
bottom line is the germans have a quality in their team the likes of england could only dream of...germany play exciting quick football that is great to watch..okay they might not be as technically gifted as the spanish or indeed have the ultimate player [ronaldo] of the portugese....but for me they have been fantastic to watch .....compare that with the negative kick and rush tactics of the england team !!..but hey miracles do happen.an english club team [allbeit without many englishman] played negative dull defensive,lucky football all the way to champions league glory this season,so anything is possible especially after watching a completely average,defensive 'greece' side actually win this tournament not so long ago. italy v england,is pretty hard to call ..italy are not the superpower they once where.i still think they will be too good for the english though. england may well just get lucky and do something this time,it will be very bad for the sport though if they do...however i believe the spanish and the germans will be so superior angainst them that even good luck will not be enough.
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Unclesox guessed it right. Spain 2 - France 0. Triple pivot by France. They virtually had no chance to score, only that free kick from far away. Playing with 3 defensive midfielders, I don't think they would have score not even with Zidane and Platini. My neighbour (Iniesta) was Zidane again, to Alba, crossing and goal. The Spain in the second half is more the one I would line up (with 2 forwards), less possesion but more of a threat. Except for Arbeloa. Portugal is going to have 5 days of resting before the semifinals, and Spain 3. That matters too, just like France has had 1 day of rest less than Spain for this match. Del Bosque's Spain has won 50 out of 54 official matches. The best record ever, even better than the 2 most legendaries nation teams, the 50s Hungary and the 60s Brazil. It seems unclesox and me are going to have an epic duel in this Fantasy.