"Do You Believe in Magic?" book on alternative med
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Well, what's she got in her cookbook, then??? I thought you're supposed to eat a great variety of things to get the proper range of nutrients. The more "colorful" the better. But only in smallish portions.
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You are supposed to eat the colorful foods. whether you're vegetarian or not. Some people really don't eat right.
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Kathryn O:
cfergoid:
Most alternative therapies don't work and it's just dangerous for people to claim they do since it might stop people seeking help that may be available elsewhere. There are lots of herbal therapies with a good evidence base though.
The same goes for traditional med. For example: An anti-depressent with the side effect of suicide. IT DOESN'T WORK. an bone loss medication that caused the jaw bone to rot. IT DOESN'T WORK and many people who seek alternative medicine do so for two reasons: they already tried the traditional route and want to see what else might be availbable two: They live in America and unless they're a congress person or a prisoner, have no health care that will take care of their condition
At least the traditional medicines do have proven benefit over placebo. Ok they often have harmful side effects and we acknowledge that there are times in our quest to do good we may do harm. Alternative therapy has a role but it does not work. It has no scientific basis and outcomes are no better than placebo. It is dangerous if somebody with diabetes or heart disease for example decides to stop taking their proven traditional therapy and rely solely on alternative therapy.
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SusyLuvsPaul:
It's ironic a truly fervent advocate for animals cops to having no rescue dogs for pets
Felice, the Vegan Holy Man in the Detroit area, is against pets. He considers it slavery (though I point out working relationships are different but he hasn't worked in over 50 years). My ex husband used to say the Felice hated animals and that's why he doesn't eat them or have anything to do with them. I found that funny
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cfergoid:
Kathryn O:
cfergoid:
Most alternative therapies don't work and it's just dangerous for people to claim they do since it might stop people seeking help that may be available elsewhere. There are lots of herbal therapies with a good evidence base though.
The same goes for traditional med. For example: An anti-depressent with the side effect of suicide. IT DOESN'T WORK. an bone loss medication that caused the jaw bone to rot. IT DOESN'T WORK and many people who seek alternative medicine do so for two reasons: they already tried the traditional route and want to see what else might be availbable two: They live in America and unless they're a congress person or a prisoner, have no health care that will take care of their condition
At least the traditional medicines do have proven benefit over placebo. Ok they often have harmful side effects and we acknowledge that there are times in our quest to do good we may do harm. Alternative therapy has a role but it does not work. It has no scientific basis and outcomes are no better than placebo. It is dangerous if somebody with diabetes or heart disease for example decides to stop taking their proven traditional therapy and rely solely on alternative therapy.
Actually, many alternatives have scientific basis just in other countries not the States. Skeptics tend to be Americentric with their testing but this is a country that puts various ingrediants in its food that the rest of the world has wisely banned. and it's worked for me every single time and I have had major ailments. I've been to lectures attended by medical people that go into heavy physilogical presentations regarding these. To dismiss it as placebo effect is simply an error.
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My mother relies soley on alternative therepy for her diabetes. Her doctor didn't like that and did refuse to write the prescription for her testing supplies once. He and I had a discussion on how we could have sued him for malpractice on my father and then he gave in. Gee, how does she do that? Besides the supplements, she also follows the diet. Period. That really is the key. Plus she started the diet right away. Heart disease? I've known several successes there too. It really is about choices which I am into. I support anyone's choice to treat their ailments in the manner they see fit. If they want to use a traditional med, fine. Just make sure they do it correctly. One thing that irks me is the pushing and selling of meds just to make money. For example, once upon a time, a cholesterol level of 240 was considered healthy. It still is by old doctors. The amount was lowered to 120 not for health, but to sell more drugs. (We also know now that blood pressure levels can vary in certain individuals)
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Cholesterol targets were lowered in certain circumstances for health reason and on the basis of clinical trials that have proven outcomes. The standard to which I hold a treatment is that in pretty much all cases there must be less that a 5% chance that the demonstrable difference between the treatment and placebo could have simply been down to chance. Compare the alternative therapies you speak of to placebo alone and that above condition is rarely, if ever, met. Diabetes is an interesting example, I assume we're talking non-insulin dependent since alternative therapies for insulin dependent diabetes would simply kill you (hey, the therapies might be good but they can't replace the pancreas) The very fact your mother seeks alternative therapies for her diabetes is suggestive that she is somewhat conscious of her health. That alone is going to lead to better control in non-insulin dependent diabetes.
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cfergoid:
Cholesterol targets were lowered in certain circumstances for health reason and on the basis of clinical trials that have proven outcomes. The standard to which I hold a treatment is that in pretty much all cases there must be less that a 5% chance that the demonstrable difference between the treatment and placebo could have simply been down to chance. Compare the alternative therapies you speak of to placebo alone and that above condition is rarely, if ever, met. Diabetes is an interesting example, I assume we're talking non-insulin dependent since alternative therapies for insulin dependent diabetes would simply kill you (hey, the therapies might be good but they can't replace the pancreas) The very fact your mother seeks alternative therapies for her diabetes is suggestive that she is somewhat conscious of her health. That alone is going to lead to better control in non-insulin dependent diabetes.
someone just switching to alternative methods in the throes of a debilitiating illness, no. NOt going to work. Hey, my family doctor disagrees with you on the cholesterol changes.
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eating animals' flesh, dairy and eggs is harmful to one's healthy in all the ways being complained about no magic involved veganism is the answer to all these physical ills (from all the complaints of cholesterol to diabetes to even cancer) so many medical studies and reports show these facts about what people are consuming (and causing all this damage to themselves) and what is more beneficial (vegan) what goes around comes around the pain and suffering that animals receive comes back to the humans who pay for and consume of it
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Kathryn O:
cfergoid:
Cholesterol targets were lowered in certain circumstances for health reason and on the basis of clinical trials that have proven outcomes. The standard to which I hold a treatment is that in pretty much all cases there must be less that a 5% chance that the demonstrable difference between the treatment and placebo could have simply been down to chance. Compare the alternative therapies you speak of to placebo alone and that above condition is rarely, if ever, met. Diabetes is an interesting example, I assume we're talking non-insulin dependent since alternative therapies for insulin dependent diabetes would simply kill you (hey, the therapies might be good but they can't replace the pancreas) The very fact your mother seeks alternative therapies for her diabetes is suggestive that she is somewhat conscious of her health. That alone is going to lead to better control in non-insulin dependent diabetes.
someone just switching to alternative methods in the throes of a debilitiating illness, no. NOt going to work. Hey, my family doctor disagrees with you on the cholesterol changes.
I remember my mother, an RN, was supposed to get nasal surgery to to fix some sort of blockage or what not (she's the nurse, not me ). She wound up trying acupuncture for a few months as a last-ditch effort to avoid surgery, and sure enough, it worked. My cousin practices Eastern medicine out in California, and he took credit for the whole thing, as he'd suggested it to her. My point, rambling as it is, is that I don't think going full force into Western OR Eastern medicine is always a good thing, as a balance between the two seems to work. Of course, some things like more serious diseases and such are not what I'd mess around with, but other than that, it's not a bad idea to take the best of both and use them in combination.
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Dr. David Permutter was on PBS Sunday touting his high priced (for the financially elite) wares to keep your brain from rotting out--expensive organic food (has to be organic), pricey supplements, costly lab tests, and the like. His book is currently Number One on the New York Times bestseller list. I hope he's soon revealed to be a Suzanne Sommers type quack (although a few of her theories may hold some validity) since I can't afford to follow his "on the cutting edge of science" regimen. He states it has to be low carbs and "lots" of the "good for you fats" all the way, fats are great for the brain and he swears cholestoral isn't bad for you and is also good for "the King of the organs" the brain. I thought there's a good kind of chloestoral and a bad kind. That's what they used to say anyway. Bad news for Rahil, this Permutter guy claims eggs and dairy are permissible and beneficial, and lean grass fed beef and free range organic chicken Only certain types of veggies are okay, he says--mostly those that grow "above the ground" but they "must be organic." He mentioned you can have "a small handful of blueberries." The PBS studio audience smiled and clapped and nodded, as if they're all going to give up all sugar--I doubt that. Sugar is very "toxic." Which I've tried to brainwash myself into completely believing for a long time. I've tried to always view the sweet stuff as "white poison."
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not bad new for ME bad news for the innocent animals who will be abused and killed just because some quack came and messed up the minds of people on tv, despite all the other facts, major among should be the fact of taking the life of these innocent animals being wrong. bad news for those who persist in consuming such regardless of all good sense and info, just because they think they find some loophole to keep their addiction to flesh of innocent animals going and somehow 'justified'. no good can come from such evil and especially no good from consuming of such bloodshed, sorrow, pain and violence.
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simplyrahil:
eating animals' flesh, dairy and eggs is harmful to one's healthy in all the ways being complained about no magic involved veganism is the answer to all these physical ills (from all the complaints of cholesterol to diabetes to even cancer) so many medical studies and reports show these facts about what people are consuming (and causing all this damage to themselves) and what is more beneficial (vegan) what goes around comes around the pain and suffering that animals receive comes back to the humans who pay for and consume of it
actually, it might not be. The longest live people consume cultured dairy products from grass fed milk. (and this isn't a thread about militant veganism though dietary restrictions on an ailment is a great discussion I have every day). Besides, vegans are low in b12 and often have a hard time getting rid of fungal infections due to everything in their diet helping funguses grow. (I call Candida the vegan scourge. It always takes the slowest on them and fruit eaters of any type)
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SusyLuvsPaul:
Dr. David Permutter was on PBS Sunday touting his high priced (for the financially elite) wares to keep your brain from rotting out--expensive organic food (has to be organic), pricey supplements, costly lab tests, and the like. His book is currently Number One on the New York Times bestseller list. I hope he's soon revealed to be a Suzanne Sommers type quack (although a few of her theories may hold some validity) since I can't afford to follow his "on the cutting edge of science" regimen. He states it has to be low carbs and "lots" of the "good for you fats" all the way, fats are great for the brain and he swears cholestoral isn't bad for you and is also good for "the King of the organs" the brain. I thought there's a good kind of chloestoral and a bad kind. That's what they used to say anyway. Bad news for Rahil, this Permutter guy claims eggs and dairy are permissible and beneficial, and lean grass fed beef and free range organic chicken Only certain types of veggies are okay, he says--mostly those that grow "above the ground" but they "must be organic." He mentioned you can have "a small handful of blueberries." The PBS studio audience smiled and clapped and nodded, as if they're all going to give up all sugar--I doubt that. Sugar is very "toxic." Which I've tried to brainwash myself into completely believing for a long time. I've tried to always view the sweet stuff as "white poison."
There was a buddhist monk who lived for 200 years in modern times. He ate mostly soups made of herbs, vegetables above ground and few roots. Grains were eaten sparingly and no meat though now it is known his well water was infused with goji berries. People flock now to drink from his well.
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Kathryn O:
Besides, vegans are low in b12
that is a myth that has been smashed to bits countless times educate yourself (if you and anyone else here dares) http://thebananagirl.com/b12-myth-veganb12-deficiencies.php http://www.naturalnews.com/029531_vitamin_B12_vegan.html https://www.vegsoc.org/B12 http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/b12.aspx and whatever else nonsense you're trying to say about vegans' health is just that - nonsense, because thousands of vegans if they were able to post on here would passionately refute all the crap you are saying from personal health experience, including mine. 'you' in your 'stint as a vegan' or the 'vegans you knew' perhaps just didn't 'do it right'
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You come across like a fanatic, Rahil. You need to tone it down a lot methinks if you wish to persuade more potential vegan adherents to take up your cause.
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the only fanatics are those who against all good information and against all the exposure of abuse and murder of innocent animals and against all good info about ill health from consuming such death will STILL DO SO. THAT is fanaticism.
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Am I reading the name of this thread wrong? I thought it was about alternative versus traditional medicine, not about veganism. There's already at least one vegan thread, so maybe that is the place to post the "go vegan or you're evil" messages instead of hijacking EVERY thread... So, in other words:
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walliebaby:
Am I reading the name of this thread wrong? I thought it was about alternative versus traditional medicine, not about veganism. There's already at least one vegan thread, so maybe that is the place to post the "go vegan or you're evil" messages instead of hijacking EVERY thread... So, in other words:
the issue of 'health' came up, so the responses i made were very well on topic why don't you go back in hiding?
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Speaking of alternative versus traditional medicine, does anyone have any suggestions about treating colds? They always linger for me, way past when others are over theirs, and I was wondering which camp people are in when it comes to dealing with them. I'm sure, working in schools, I'll be sick many more times this year.