In defense of "Ebony and Ivory"
-
Ebony and Ivory was my 6th Grade Anthem. Whenever we suspected one of our many substitute teachers was a possible racist we belted out the chorus of Ebony and Ivory. Never mind the fact that we behaved so horribly that we drove many teachers away, we just chose to think they were being racist and needed to hear the song.
-
did get massive airplay, radio and television catchy, love the opening of the tune is ihe song criticized now because in this day and age we don't like being preached to? message songs don't win us over.
-
Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
________________________________________________________ Good topic Bruce and yes I agree with you 100%. I always liked it even though radio did kill it for so many people. Even great songs will get tiresome if they are constantly played. Not saying that E&I is a great song but it is very listenable (if you haven't heard it in a while) and the lyrics are very creative. As someone said, the metaphor is very simplistic but no one thought of using it in a song until Paul. It will also always be relevant. Look what has happened yesterday in Baltimore. I remember about a year or two ago when some poll listed E&I as the worst pop song of all time. That is crazy to me. As Bruce said, it is a nice little song. Just as good as Imagine and Give Me Love in my opinion. Because of the broader nature of Imagine, it was easier for the song to become an Anthem for various peace movements, politicians etc. And after John tragically was murdered, Imagine became John's universal masterpiece. But as songs go, I think E&I is as good as Imagine but I know I am in the minority on that one. I don't think that either song is Paul or John's best by a long shot but certainly Imagine became John's biggest solo song universally. I also remember when President Obama and the White House honored Paul and there was a live concert for the event. There were several highlights with other artists singing Paul's songs (i.e. Elvis Costello singing Penny Lane) but the song that got the biggest applause by far was Ebony and Ivory. Paul and Stevie Wonder played together with Paul's Back Up Band. I remember the song sounded great to my ears. I really liked the harmonies provided by Abe, Rusty etc and Paul and Stevie sounded terrific. I hadn't heard the song in a long time and it struck me that E&I is a good song but was just overplayed so much when it came out. Unfortunately, that is why there is so much negatively surrounding the song. If someone could get the U-tube version for others to hear the White House version, it would be appreciated.
-
Can't say I've been overexposed to "Ebony and Ivory", if so it must be cover versions on a kind of singalong tv-shows. In Norway, where I live, there's more of a multi-cultural racism than black and white. I just think it's a very nice song and duet. The thing with it is that it's a proper duet, down to the lyrics and everything, it's not just two artists singing the same song for various reasons. McCartney and Wonder mingles with the song. I'd say it's one of the greatest duets of all time.
-
As far as duets go "Say Say Say" and "The Girl is Mine" are the absolute best !
-
I too recall how the posh audience cheered and yelled as the beginning of "Ebony and Ivory" started, at Paul's White House honors gig. It was thrilling They remembered the song well, loved it
-
Ive watched The White House Performance so many times. Not only was Ebony and Ivory great but Michelle was superb.
-
Newfan:
As far as duets go "Say Say Say" and "The Girl is Mine" are the absolute best !
Uh... no. NO.
-
Here is Paul and Stevie at the White House. I gotta confess, I choked up the first time I saw this. Given this country's deeply effed-up history on race (which has really come out during Obama's presidency), this was a special moment.
-
JoeySmith:
E&I has 2 things going against it - trite lyrics regarding a complex topic & cheesy, schmaltzy music with synthesizers no less. The use of piano keys as a metaphor for race relations is sophomoric songwriting to say the least. Bottom-line is I just dont see any redeeming qualities in the song. Easily one of the worst Macca released & its gotten worse over the years.
Spot on.
-
B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
________________________________________________________ Good topic Bruce and yes I agree with you 100%. I always liked it even though radio did kill it for so many people. Even great songs will get tiresome if they are constantly played. Not saying that E&I is a great song but it is very listenable (if you haven't heard it in a while) and the lyrics are very creative. As someone said, the metaphor is very simplistic but no one thought of using it in a song until Paul. It will also always be relevant. Look what has happened yesterday in Baltimore. I remember about a year or two ago when some poll listed E&I as the worst pop song of all time. That is crazy to me. As Bruce said, it is a nice little song. Just as good as Imagine and Give Me Love in my opinion. Because of the broader nature of Imagine, it was easier for the song to become an Anthem for various peace movements, politicians etc. And after John tragically was murdered, Imagine became John's universal masterpiece. But as songs go, I think E&I is as good as Imagine but I know I am in the minority on that one. I don't think that either song is Paul or John's best by a long shot but certainly Imagine became John's biggest solo song universally. I also remember when President Obama and the White House honored Paul and there was a live concert for the event. There were several highlights with other artists singing Paul's songs (i.e. Elvis Costello singing Penny Lane) but the song that got the biggest applause by far was Ebony and Ivory. Paul and Stevie Wonder played together with Paul's Back Up Band. I remember the song sounded great to my ears. I really liked the harmonies provided by Abe, Rusty etc and Paul and Stevie sounded terrific. I hadn't heard the song in a long time and it struck me that E&I is a good song but was just overplayed so much when it came out. Unfortunately, that is why there is so much negatively surrounding the song. If someone could get the U-tube version for others to hear the White House version, it would be appreciated.
I think you're mixing up the two shows--there was the Kennedy Center Honors where artists like Steven Tyler sang Paul songs and then the Obama/White House award where Jerry Seinfeld joked about "she was just 17, you know what I mean" ("No, Paul, we don't know what you mean!") and Paul sang E&I with Stevie Wonder but he did Penny Lane himself (and they had a Marine do the piccolo trumpet part) Did Elvis C do Penny Lane on the KCH?
-
Nancy R:
B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
________________________________________________________ Good topic Bruce and yes I agree with you 100%. I always liked it even though radio did kill it for so many people. Even great songs will get tiresome if they are constantly played. Not saying that E&I is a great song but it is very listenable (if you haven't heard it in a while) and the lyrics are very creative. As someone said, the metaphor is very simplistic but no one thought of using it in a song until Paul. It will also always be relevant. Look what has happened yesterday in Baltimore. I remember about a year or two ago when some poll listed E&I as the worst pop song of all time. That is crazy to me. As Bruce said, it is a nice little song. Just as good as Imagine and Give Me Love in my opinion. Because of the broader nature of Imagine, it was easier for the song to become an Anthem for various peace movements, politicians etc. And after John tragically was murdered, Imagine became John's universal masterpiece. But as songs go, I think E&I is as good as Imagine but I know I am in the minority on that one. I don't think that either song is Paul or John's best by a long shot but certainly Imagine became John's biggest solo song universally. I also remember when President Obama and the White House honored Paul and there was a live concert for the event. There were several highlights with other artists singing Paul's songs (i.e. Elvis Costello singing Penny Lane) but the song that got the biggest applause by far was Ebony and Ivory. Paul and Stevie Wonder played together with Paul's Back Up Band. I remember the song sounded great to my ears. I really liked the harmonies provided by Abe, Rusty etc and Paul and Stevie sounded terrific. I hadn't heard the song in a long time and it struck me that E&I is a good song but was just overplayed so much when it came out. Unfortunately, that is why there is so much negatively surrounding the song. If someone could get the U-tube version for others to hear the White House version, it would be appreciated.
I think you're mixing up the two shows--there was the Kennedy Center Honors where artists like Steven Tyler sang Paul songs and then the Obama/White House award where Jerry Seinfeld joked about "she was just 17, you know what I mean" ("No, Paul, we don't know what you mean!") and Paul sanght g E&I with Stevie Wonder but he did Penny Lane himself (and they had a Marine do the piccolo trumpet part) Did Elvis C do Penny Lane on the KCH?
________________________________________________________ Nancy, Thanks for bringing up the Kennedy Center Concert also. I love both shows although I thought the Kennedy Honors show was an all-timer. If you remember, Paul didn't perform at all at the Kennedy Center show. He sat up in the balcony with the Obama's, Opra and other stars. Paul wife Nancy was directly behind Paul and put her arms around Paul during a couple of the songs (very nice moments). I am pretty sure that it was Elvis Costello that sang Penny Lane at the White House show with Paul in the audience. The crowd did robustly cheer during the Marine's trumpet solo...I do remember that. I do also remember thinking that Elvis Costello sounds good no matter what he sings. Paul did perform afterward. I remember him doing Michelle for Michelle Obama, Eleanor Rigby, Ebony and Ivory with Stevie Wonder and others. I think he ended with Hey Jude. Members of the audience including the Obama's came up on stage at the end for the sing-along which seemed a little awkward from my recollection. All in all, a good show but the Kennedy honors show in my opinion was just awesome. Penny Lane was sung at the Kennedy Show by Gwen Stafani and No Doubt. I remember Gwen's cute little dance while she was singing. Only a guy would remember that!
-
The Kennedy Center Honors was awesome! Steven Tyler did an amazing job,
-
Newfan:
The Kennedy Center Honors was awesome! Steven Tyler did an amazing job,
Yes he did! I loved that performance & it looked like Paul & Nancy did too.
-
Just looked it up on youtube and you were right, BJ, it was Elvis C. Don't know why I thought it was Paul at the piano doing it!
-
If John had written this song, people would be singing it all over places like Baltimore and Ferguson right now.
-
For me "Ebony and Ivory" encapsulates everything I frequently love and hate about Paul's solo career. I have such mixed feelings about this song. On the positive side, I think Ebony and Ivory is a fantastically written song. A monster composition. I remember back in the day visiting my cousin, and she had the sheet music for this song. I play piano and guitar, and I remember sitting down playing and discovering the notes and chords. Very powerful. Some people have commented that it has a "nice" and decent melody, but I'd go much further and say this composition stands shoulder to shoulder with Paul's best work with the Beatles. Lyrically, the metaphor of the piano keys is a wonderful thing, too. Perhaps a touch glib in the lyrics, but still fine in my books. Ok, on to the negative side. Here my comments echo much of what I said in another post regarding the song "Press". Unfortunately, for my own tastes, I find that the *sound* of Ebony and Ivory is far too swamped with shmaltz. From the sound of the horns (or are those synths?) that blast the opening riff, my toes begin to curl. The aesthetic of the production and arrangement is far too drenched in cheese for my tastes, from the overly sweet high harmonies to the slickly polished rhythm tracks. Too much Vegas, and not enough Motown. I emphasize these are my own tastes, and there's no scientific way to argue this, it's much like walking into someone's house and commenting on the wallpaper. What might be tasteful and cool to someone, might be totally tacky to someone else. What bugs me about Ebony and Ivory is that I know Paul CAN do amazing r & b tinged tracks. As an example, I think of The Long and Winding Road as a close cousin to Ebony; they almost seem to share the same sonic landscape. I'm much more pleased with Long and Winding Road as far as aesthetics go, it seems to have some more darker shades and grittier touches. (The irony for me is that Paul has singled out this song as being poorly produced with syrupy overdubs. Each to their own, of course!) But if I'm sitting in a room with friends who all dig music like old blues records, alt rock, classic rock and whatnot, I'd feel much safer playing The Long and Winding Road. I'd get beat up if I put on Ebony and Ivory, lol. Someone posted the video of the stripped down early rehearsals of Ebony and Ivory back in the Wings days, and there's something about that that I found more enjoyable/tolerable. Even having the opening riff played on a simple organ was nicer, but maybe not the ultimate solution. The song was a massive commercial success at the time, and I think it was fully deserved. But it's awkward spot in history makes sense to me, too.
-
HaileyMcComet:
If John had written this song, people would be singing it all over places like Baltimore and Ferguson right now.
LOL. for some reason, i dont think people in baltimore today would be waving their arms in unison singing "ebony & ivory, live together in perfect harmony..." even if lennon wrote it. People we're stomping to "all we are saying, is give peace a chance..." in the early 70s because it was good lennon sloganeering & you could stomp to it.
-
You've nailed it ZodiakFool. Couldn't agree more.
-
ZodiakFool:
For me "Ebony and Ivory" encapsulates everything I frequently love and hate about Paul's solo career. I have such mixed feelings about this song. On the positive side, I think Ebony and Ivory is a fantastically written song. A monster composition. I remember back in the day visiting my cousin, and she had the sheet music for this song. I play piano and guitar, and I remember sitting down playing and discovering the notes and chords. Very powerful. Some people have commented that it has a "nice" and decent melody, but I'd go much further and say this composition stands shoulder to shoulder with Paul's best work with the Beatles. Lyrically, the metaphor of the piano keys is a wonderful thing, too. Perhaps a touch glib in the lyrics, but still fine in my books. Ok, on to the negative side. Here my comments echo much of what I said in another post regarding the song "Press". Unfortunately, for my own tastes, I find that the *sound* of Ebony and Ivory is far too swamped with shmaltz. From the sound of the horns (or are those synths?) that blast the opening riff, my toes begin to curl. The aesthetic of the production and arrangement is far too drenched in cheese for my tastes, from the overly sweet high harmonies to the slickly polished rhythm tracks. Too much Vegas, and not enough Motown. I emphasize these are my own tastes, and there's no scientific way to argue this, it's much like walking into someone's house and commenting on the wallpaper. What might be tasteful and cool to someone, might be totally tacky to someone else. What bugs me about Ebony and Ivory is that I know Paul CAN do amazing r & b tinged tracks. As an example, I think of The Long and Winding Road as a close cousin to Ebony; they almost seem to share the same sonic landscape. I'm much more pleased with Long and Winding Road as far as aesthetics go, it seems to have some more darker shades and grittier touches. (The irony for me is that Paul has singled out this song as being poorly produced with syrupy overdubs. Each to their own, of course!) But if I'm sitting in a room with friends who all dig music like old blues records, alt rock, classic rock and whatnot, I'd feel much safer playing The Long and Winding Road. I'd get beat up if I put on Ebony and Ivory, lol. Someone posted the video of the stripped down early rehearsals of Ebony and Ivory back in the Wings days, and there's something about that that I found more enjoyable/tolerable. Even having the opening riff played on a simple organ was nicer, but maybe not the ultimate solution. The song was a massive commercial success at the time, and I think it was fully deserved. But it's awkward spot in history makes sense to me, too.
So it's George Martin's production that's the real issue on this one? Ebony And Ivory, We All Stand Together and Mull Of Kintyre are the songs in the UK that have damaged Paul's reputation irreparably, and are songs that are brought up if you say you're a Paul fan as the reason why he's crap after the Beatles! Funny how a few slightly cheesy hits can ruin your musical reputation despite all the good work, but i guess that's all the general public see, the hits!