Flaming Pie has aged very well - 20 year anniversary
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HaileyMcComet:
6/8 is a basic time signature that's used in a lot of folk songs around the world. The drum part on "Souvenir", which I'm guessing Paul played, is pretty typical of American/British rock/pop songs in 6/8. There are too many differences between Minnesota and Hong Kong, but one that I notice every day is how the city of Hong Kong has about 2 million more people than the entire state of Minnesota. I came to Hong Kong for a job that I just quit, which has me thinking about a new topic for this site.
Wow! Where will you go now?
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HaileyMcComet:
yankeefan7:
I think "Tug Of War", "Take It Away" and "Somebody Who Cares" that begin the album "Tug of War" is just as good or pretty close to the songs you mentioned - lol.
That's about as good an album opening as it gets.
_________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more with both of you. The 3 Tug songs are just as good as the Flaming pie threesome in my opinion and they start the album. Somebody Who Cares is really an underrated song. And just think, Paul didn't include any of those Tug songs on Pure McCartney. Are you kidding me!
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B J Conlee:
HaileyMcComet:
yankeefan7:
I think "Tug Of War", "Take It Away" and "Somebody Who Cares" that begin the album "Tug of War" is just as good or pretty close to the songs you mentioned - lol.
That's about as good an album opening as it gets.
_________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more with both of you. The 3 Tug songs are just as good as the Flaming pie threesome in my opinion and they start the album. Somebody Who Cares is really an underrated song. And just think, Paul didn't include any of those Tug songs on Pure McCartney. Are you kidding me!
Exactly !! Not one of those songs on his best selling solo album ever and "Take It Away" was top 10 single in the US. In addition, no songs from FITD was on "Pure McCartney". Just shows you how inept they were when putting "Pure McCartney" together.
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yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
HaileyMcComet:
yankeefan7:
I think "Tug Of War", "Take It Away" and "Somebody Who Cares" that begin the album "Tug of War" is just as good or pretty close to the songs you mentioned - lol.
That's about as good an album opening as it gets.
_________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more with both of you. The 3 Tug songs are just as good as the Flaming pie threesome in my opinion and they start the album. Somebody Who Cares is really an underrated song. And just think, Paul didn't include any of those Tug songs on Pure McCartney. Are you kidding me!
Exactly !! Not one of those songs on his best selling solo album ever and "Take It Away" was top 10 single in the US. In addition, no songs from FITD was on "Pure McCartney". Just shows you how inept they were when putting "Pure McCartney" together.
That's why I didn't buy it!
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I didn't buy it because it has "Band On the Run". How many CDs do I need that song on?
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HaileyMcComet:
I didn't buy it because it has "Band On the Run". How many CDs do I need that song on?
Apparently 6 or 7, according to Paul!
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I still have the cassette tape that I bought in 1997. Great album. Most probably his best.
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B J Conlee:
Anthony B.:
B J Conlee:
yankeefan7:
B J Conlee:
One think that is good about discussing various albums is that you get a chance to see what other fans (and I consider the regulars here to be "real and fair" McCartney fans) think of Macca's overall music throughout his entire career. There are some people (and critics for that matter) who just dismiss McCartney's Post Beatles' career. I think the people here look at Paul fairly and point out the good and great as well as the mediocre and even poor elements of Paul's discography. Many here are real students of Mr. McCartney as compared to others who just have "fixed" opinions or just go along with popular thought without examining the real facts. I must admit that I was a little surprised about many of the reactions towards Flaming Pie. I tend to rate FP (the complete album) higher than others here. Obviously these are just opinions (there are no right or wrongs here) but I do see better from this thread some of the down sides of FP. Except for Really Love You, I can go through Pie non-stop and like the album a lot. I like even the 3-4 average tracks (with the one exception above) so I put it at a higher level than most ( here or beyond). Perhaps I'm a bigger fan of Steve Miller than most. I see it as a really consistent album but it is clear that I'm not in the majority here and that is fine. I find it fun discussing the merits (both good and bad) of Paul's albums. The "consistency" of an album is another basis of comparison. It does seem that many here feel that "Chaos" is Paul's most consistent SOLO album. In this case, I'm thinking of albums from Tug of War onward. I tend to agree with that opinion also. As Yankeefan mentioned, Chaos was flawless from a track to track basis...no clunkers and all good. It got me thinking however, that as good as Chaos is, I think the best songs on FP are slightly better than the best songs on Chaos. I think that also may be true for Tug of War and MAF. The great songs on all three are really great where the highlights on Chaos (Jenny Wren, Fine Line, Too Much Rain and others) are more "good to very good". Does anybody understand what I'm saying here and what do you think.
I understand your point that while CHAOS may be consistently better than an album like FP but I disagree that the highlights of CHAOS are not as good as the highlights on the other three albums you mentioned. I think "How Kind Of You", "Promise To You Girl", "Riding To Vanity Fair" and "Too Much Rain" are as good or better than anything on "Tug Of War", "MAF" or "Flaming Pie".
____________________________________________________ Yankeefan. This is like trying to say who was better...Mantle or Mays. They were both GREAT! One thing where we definitely agree...In all those years where Paul was touring heavily (from 2002 on) and where his voice was still good to great, he skipped over so many terrific Solo songs in favor of playing the same Beatle songs time and time again. As I said, it was just so easy for him to go that route. Unfortunately so many people who like music (and even liked the Beatles a lot) don't know his Solo stuff to a huge degree. Not playing a song like Promise to You Girl is just criminal. If I was grading Chaos tracks, I would probably have Jenny Wren and This Never Happened Before at 10's and the ones you mentioned at 9's or 9.5 They are still all terrific songs. Again, we're back to trying to say who was better...Mantle, Mays, Williams etc. When you look at Paul's Beatle career, I think he was judged fairly because the Beatles were (and rightfully so) put on the highest pedestal. Everyone knows Paul's greatest Beatle songs...Yesterday, Here There & Everywhere, Let It Be, Long & Winding Road, Get Back, For No One. I Will etc. etc. There are certain Paul Solo songs that I put on that level. Besides Maybe I'm Amazed and Band on the Run, I would include Wanderlust, Tug of War, Take It Away, Little Willow, Calico Skies, Beautiful Night, Put It There, Jenny Wren, End of the End and surely a few others that I'm missing. I just think that Tug of War and Flaming Pie had a few more of those special songs than his other albums. Then again, we're trying to compare Mantle, Mays, DiMaggio, Williams etc. They are all great!
Haven't posted in a while, but thought I'd chime in here, as I just listened to both "Flaming Pie" and "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard" earlier today on my drive back to NYC from Baltimore (with some Tom Jones sprinkled in there for good measure, lol). I'm not exactly sure why, because both of these albums have a very distinct vibe, but I've always felt that "Chaos" was an extension of the "Flaming Pie" sound. It's probably due to the simple, beautifully organic production on both of these records; none of the songs sound "over-produced", and I think it's no coincidence that most of the arrangements feature acoustic instruments (with Paul playing the majority of them, at that). The albums also mirror each other in the way that they feature similar themes that run throughout the lyrics - the tone's are somber and more reflective, which, as was previously mentioned, was surely to do with Linda's illness, death, and also the infamous divorce from H.M. that followed years later. BJ, I agree with you on pretty much all of your points about "Flaming Pie". On the whole, I don't think the three songs previously mentioned ("If You Wanna", "Used to Be Bad", & "Really Love You"), although they are generally considered the weakest of the bunch, detract from how great this album is. Personally, the only song I would have cut is "Really Love You", as I really do enjoy the other two. "If You Wanna" might go on a little too long, but I was definitely grooving to it on the drive, and I also love how loose Paul and Steve Miller sound on "Used to Be Bad" (really dig the snare sound on that song). I also agree that it was a missed opportunity for him to play some of these incredible songs live, I would have loved to have seen him do "Young Boy", "The World Tonight", "Promise to You Girl", "Anyway", etc. Your Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle analogy is spot on! I find both records to be great (they were both nominated for the coveted "Album of the Year" Grammy, after all), and I've always considered both to be in his top 5 greatest albums.
_________________________________________________________ Anthony Welcome back and great post. Yankeefan, Bruce, myself and quite a few others here have often expressed our frustration over the terrific Solo songs that Paul has ignored going back to 2002 when he resumed touring after Linda's illness. So many great songs (like the ones you listed) that needed the exposure since Paul's new music was never played on the radio. So often, Paul's live versions are as good and sometimes better. He has toured incessantly since 2002 so there were many opportunities. Instead he continued to play songs like Lady Madonna at every show that he can play in his sleep. Never could understand the logic yet I still love the guy. I would be interested in your comments about Memory Almost Full...the songs and the sound. There is a post a little bit back with many discussions about this really good album as well. I and others raised some questions about the inferior sound on a few of the songs and would be interested in your opinion. Thanks
I'm definitely in the camp of "Paul should play more of his post 1980's material live" - there are SO many great songs that deserve to be performed live and brought to a wider audience. Unfortunately, I don't believe we'll ever get a tour that truly represents that part of his career, but, you never know. I also understand the view that not everyone has gotten the chance to see him perform, so there are standards that he believes "must" be played. The thing about McCartney is he is only one of a small group of artists who could play a three hour show and still leave out songs that were not only international hits, but number one's! lol. His catalogue is massive, so it's impossible to play everything, or please everyone. Would I personally be bothered if he never performed "Hey Jude" again - no. But that being said, I remember my first Paul concert (2002 at Continental Arena in NJ) and the pure joy of hearing him perform that song live, as well as the many other Beatles' songs that are now considered to be "tired" and "over-performed". I've also been lucky enough to see him 11 times, so my view is vastly different from someone who's never gotten that chance. It reminds me of a quote from Joe DiMaggio, when he was asked by a reporter why he always played so hard, he replied: "Because there is always some kid who may be seeing me for the first time. I owe him my best." I digress. I love "Memory Almost Full"! My gripes with the album are not in the songs or the performances, but in the production (why is it mastered so loud?), and I absolutely can't stand "Nod Your Head". When you have a great song like "Why So Blue" in the back pocket, I can't understand how that was relegated to a B-side, and "Nod Your Head" made it onto the record. Paul has always seemed to have done things like that, it's really confusing, haha.
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He "moves in mysterious ways," LOL
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Anthony B.:
I love "Memory Almost Full"! My gripes with the album are not in the songs or the performances, but in the production (why is it mastered so loud?), and I absolutely can't stand "Nod Your Head".
Not one of my favourite albums as I certainly have a gripe with several of the songs (especially "Nod Your Head" ) but I do agree with the loud mastering. It makes for a very tiring and unpleasant listening experience. In a way MAF is the polar opposite to Band On The Run, which is a very organic sounding album as opposed to the sterile, compressed feel of MAF.
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Kestrel:
Anthony B.:
I love "Memory Almost Full"! My gripes with the album are not in the songs or the performances, but in the production (why is it mastered so loud?), and I absolutely can't stand "Nod Your Head".
Not one of my favourite albums as I certainly have a gripe with several of the songs (especially "Nod Your Head" ) but I do agree with the loud mastering. It makes for a very tiring and unpleasant listening experience. In a way MAF is the polar opposite to Band On The Run, which is a very organic sounding album as opposed to the sterile, compressed feel of MAF.
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Nancy R:
Kestrel:
Anthony B.:
I love "Memory Almost Full"! My gripes with the album are not in the songs or the performances, but in the production (why is it mastered so loud?), and I absolutely can't stand "Nod Your Head".
Not one of my favourite albums as I certainly have a gripe with several of the songs (especially "Nod Your Head" ) but I do agree with the loud mastering. It makes for a very tiring and unpleasant listening experience. In a way MAF is the polar opposite to Band On The Run, which is a very organic sounding album as opposed to the sterile, compressed feel of MAF.
Agreed! The production and loud mastering on MAF can actually be distracting at times. I actually finished Geoff Emerick's book, "Here, There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the Music of The Beatles" last night, and I really enjoyed reading his account of recording "Band On The Run". The trials and tribulations of the making of that record are well documented, and have been exhaustively told and re-told by Paul, but it was really refreshing to hear someone else's perspective on that experience. It's still amazing to me, that even in the face of adversity, that they still managed to make that record sound as amazing as it does, even garnering Emerick a Grammy for Best Engineered Album. He even admits in the book that he doesn't believe the album would have sounded any better had it been recorded anywhere else - such is the strength of the songs and performances (as well as his technical prowess behind the console.) As far as the songs on MAF are concerned, I really do enjoy the album from beginning to end (or rather, "The End of The End" ) That's not to say that all the tunes are equal quality wise, but on the whole I feel like it definitely has a good flow, and sounds like a cohesive album. The top tier tunes for me would be "Ever Present Past", "Only Mama Knows", "You Tell Me", "Mr. Bellamy", "Vintage Clothes", & "The End of The End", closely followed by "That Was Me", "Feet in the Clouds", & "House of Wax", and the weakest songs being "Dance Tonight", "See Your Sunshine" & "Gratitude". I know a lot of fans are divided on "Gratitude", it seems to be one of those love it or hate it songs, but even though I don't consider it a particularly strong song, I don't really find myself skipping it either. The middle 8 of "See Your Sunshine" is awesome, as is Paul's bass playing on that track (the bass playing on the album in general is really good). Like I said earlier, I can't stand "Nod Your Head", but I enjoy all the b-sides as well ("222", "Why So Blue", and "In Private").
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Well, I LOVE the 'loudness' of MAF. After the organic, slightly boring Chaos and Creation, I was ready to rock! And I LOVE, absolutely LOVE Nod Your Head. It's silly, it's loud, and it rocks!!! Always considered MAF the second best Wings album.
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wingsoverkc:
Well, I LOVE the 'loudness' of MAF. After the organic, slightly boring Chaos and Creation, I was ready to rock! And I LOVE, absolutely LOVE Nod Your Head. It's silly, it's loud, and it rocks!!! Always considered MAF the second best Wings album.
Yikes! We must agree to disagree!
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wingsoverkc:
Well, I LOVE the 'loudness' of MAF. After the organic, slightly boring Chaos and Creation, I was ready to rock! And I LOVE, absolutely LOVE Nod Your Head. It's silly, it's loud, and it rocks!!! Always considered MAF the second best Wings album.
Not as big of a fan of Nod Your Head as you seem to be, but I have to agree that MAF is a welcome change from Chaos. Much too subdued an album for my taste. And MAF definitely has a Wings vibe, especially on Only Mama Knows.
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DeniseLM227:
wingsoverkc:
Well, I LOVE the 'loudness' of MAF. After the organic, slightly boring Chaos and Creation, I was ready to rock! And I LOVE, absolutely LOVE Nod Your Head. It's silly, it's loud, and it rocks!!! Always considered MAF the second best Wings album.
Not as big of a fan of Nod Your Head as you seem to be, but I have to agree that MAF is a welcome change from Chaos. Much too subdued an album for my taste. And MAF definitely has a Wings vibe, especially on Only Mama Knows.
I wish he'd put that one back in the setlist. Or That Was Me, or House of Wax... His voice can handle these much better than some of the 50 year old songs.
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Am I the only one here who likes MAF and Chaos roughly equally? They're different sides of the coin, but both great in their own way. I do agree, though, with the complaints about the production on MAF. It doesn't kill the listening experience for me, but definitely a problem.
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Bruce M.:
Am I the only one here who likes MAF and Chaos roughly equally? They're different sides of the coin, but both great in their own way. I do agree, though, with the complaints about the production on MAF. It doesn't kill the listening experience for me, but definitely a problem.
_________________________________________________________ Couldn't agree more Bruce. I like both equally and they are so different. As I think you said, Chaos is Paul's Revolver and then Paul just "lets loose" on MAF. Think of all the good to great songs. The next question is...how many of those songs are on Paul's 2017 Setlist? We know the answer...zero.
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B J Conlee:
Bruce M.:
Am I the only one here who likes MAF and Chaos roughly equally? They're different sides of the coin, but both great in their own way. I do agree, though, with the complaints about the production on MAF. It doesn't kill the listening experience for me, but definitely a problem.
Couldn't agree more Bruce. I like both equally and they are so different. As I think you said, Chaos is Paul's Revolver and then Paul just "lets loose" on MAF. Think of all the good to great songs. The next question is...how many of those songs are on Paul's 2017 Setlist? We know the answer...zero.
Maybe they're not old enough to get into the setlist. :
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B J Conlee:
Before I get into the songs, I forgot to mention (as Paul fans know) the great contributions of some the great guests on Flaming Pie. They include Steve Miller (on 3 tracks), Ringo Starr (on 2 tracks), James McCartney (1 track) and Jeff Lynne on several of the songs plus production. Last but certainly not least is George Martin's tremendous orchestration on 2 gorgeous tracks.
Track by Track summary (10 being the best grade) The Song We Were Singing 6 The World Tonight 8. If You Wanna 4 Somedays 8 Young Boy 6 Calico Skies 7 Flaming Pie 5 Heaven on a Sunday 7 Used to be Bad 2 Souvenir 9 Little Willow 7 Really Love You 2 Beautiful Night 7 Great Day 6 Like most of his albums it is all over the place. B+ Must try harder