The ..2012.... Political thread
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deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Here is more evidence of the bu$h administration quietly trying to give more taxpayers money to the banking industry
So the Democrats and President Elect Obama did not support the bailout??? Remember the Dems have the majority in Congress. I remember Pelosi, Reid and other top Dems standing behind Bush's plan and accusing the Republicans for not supporting the plan. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/deal_reached/index.htm?postversion=2008092513
....But shortly after 10 p.m., Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the lead House Democrat on the issue who had been in close talks with Paulson for days, accused Republicans of refusing to negotiate. "At this point, we have absolutely no participation or cooperation from House Republicans," Frank said
If you want to blame the Bush administration for the bailout plan, you have to include the congress who approved it. And remember, the Democrats have the majority.
I can live with that.
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jaipur:
Well, just making the cars isn't enough Any profits can be loaded back into development.....it seems that's where the fuel efficient model coming out in 2010 came from After all your competitors finance their products as well...... The unions need a come to jesus meeting imo. It seems interesting to me that people forget that 31 states are in a hole as well, yet the focus is just on businesses....should California or NY be thrown under the bus?? Also too, the health care issue is a very complex issue.....just saying "universal health care in the US" and abracadbra won't make it happen. Unless of course Barry's been practicing his slight of hand...
I look forward to Detroit releasing those fuel-efficient vehicles! Finally! Yes, everyone is going to have to compromise...even unions. Some states are in dire need, mine is one. Here the repub. gov. has been advocating privatizing infrastructure such as bridges etc. It's very scarey to think that those massive structures would be run for profit.. when maintenance decisions would be influenced by bottom lines. I think part of the bailout should be used for infrastruction building and repair. Yeah, Health care is very complex. I read that Barry , before he had his political face advocated a single-payer system because of it's efficiency and low cost. I do too. I think he has since realized that it's probably not politically possible. Although I am a major entrepreneur type, for moral reasons I don't believe that profit should be involved in health care decisions...I have seen disaster and heartbreak come from that. I understand that Teddys office is working on a bill to introduce in the new administration. I hope we can get this right.
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Andy_Shofar:
deKooningartist:
What you read in the newspapers or hear in the news and what is actually true is astounding! I am not considered wealthy by Obama's standards. But I have a comfortable life. I've worked hard all my life. I kept hearing day in and day out about how no one could get example car loans and it was hurting the car industry something terrible. The entire country was collapsing. During this entire mess, when so called 'credit' was frozen, I got a loan for a second car!!! I have a mortage, a car loan on a new Jeep wrangler, and walked into a dealership on a Sunday night and drove home a 2005 Retro T-Bird! My friends and family were shocked! They couldn't believe I got a loan! According to the news, absolutely no one unless you were in that 1% wealthy category, could you possibly get a loan of any kind and even those people were having a hard time. But I did. Of course, that week I went in and paid off my new Jeep. I don't want two car payments. It's hard to trust what you hear nowadays.
Alice (Jabberwacky) posted this Quote Of The Day: 'If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.' Mark Twain I think you two are on the same wavelength
SOMEHOW "If you read the newspaper you are misinformed, if you don't read the newspaper you can be informed or not"
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Large fluctuations in the market come mostly from institutional investing and hedge funds and not individual investors. Hedge funds are almost totally unregulated and I understand that Soros is one who is being consulted about implementing some restrictions on Hedge Fund investing.
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jaipur:
deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Here is more evidence of the bu$h administration quietly trying to give more taxpayers money to the banking industry
So the Democrats and President Elect Obama did not support the bailout??? Remember the Dems have the majority in Congress. I remember Pelosi, Reid and other top Dems standing behind Bush's plan and accusing the Republicans for not supporting the plan. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/economy/deal_reached/index.htm?postversion=2008092513
....But shortly after 10 p.m., Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the lead House Democrat on the issue who had been in close talks with Paulson for days, accused Republicans of refusing to negotiate. "At this point, we have absolutely no participation or cooperation from House Republicans," Frank said
If you want to blame the Bush administration for the bailout plan, you have to include the congress who approved it. And remember, the Democrats have the majority.
I can live with that.
I don't think you have a choice I think the next year 4 years will be interesting to see how close he stays to his campaign retoric. One of his advisors commented on Meet The Press about Obama's Rule Is he our King now????
given the daunting challenges that we face, it?s important that president elect Obama is prepared to really take power and begin to rule day one.?
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jaipur:
21st Century Paul:
Well General Motors, Chrysler and Ford are knocking at the door of the gov asking for 50000 milions dollars. Money coming too from the taxes, of course. Anyway this is how it seems it's gonna be. Roosevelt may be Obama's fav president or so... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_deal
Well he cites Lincoln and Reagan as well Not the first time the auto industry has come to washington.....funny how no one had a problem when the airlines asked after 2001...
What's sure is that if you or anyone ask for that they're not gonna receive it... yet you could employ a lot people anyway... but, well... it's a kind of tradition. And the Picasso idea of keeping the money under his matress is not so good either anyway, kind of dangerous... Promises deleted from web page... Let's what this very possible Global New Deal is gonna be.
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jaipur:
21st Century Paul:
deKooningartist:
mustangsally10:
Get a Grip...people are suffering because of the economic situation
I never said there was not. I am responding to your statements of Bush's evil bailout plan. Just a gentle reminder of what actually occured. People are suffering due to these idiots in congress. You are the one that started the finger pointing. Now you are calling foul play????
But we come to the same old point in democracy. Dems and Reps have approved the bailouts and continue... People are suffering due to these idiots in congress... and... people voted the same people ANYWAY... so who is complaining of the situation and voting again the same people? I mean, there's not a thing to solve, people wants these politicians and in democracy, majority rules, so why even criticize our politicians, they are the people's choice, majority backs them, so... as Bill says, and I think Churchill said, and I like the quote too, "Every country has the government they deserve". it's like... "...but we like them anyway"
a minor point, Oliver.....we're a republic, not a "democracy"
you're both things, but maybe depending on your political view you can like more "republic" or "democracy"
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jaipur:
21st Century Paul:
The funny thing of the Obama effect and New Deal 2 is that the present paranoia is very probably going to turn for the oppossite in the long run... New Deal 1, besides the effects on economics, made the stocks markets rise after 3 years of falling. And that lasted decades. Roosevelt was elected president 4 times!. Here we talked about the USA cause is the country we all know, but in Europe they're doing or planning to do the same. bye, bye capitalism, welcome or welcome back welfare, capital-socialism, socio-capitalism, the hybrid model, social economy with a free market... it has a lot of names But this time there ain't be gonna 2 big superpowers with extreme capitalism and extreme socialism. Extreme Socialism failed by lack of freedom, motivation, creativity and extreme capitalism failed now and in the 1930's for greed, huge differences between the rich and the poor, financial crisis, spiral of consumism and ambition... It looks like the world is gonna refund the system, even the USA, China or Russia, who have been on the extreme sides of it all... Good luck to everyone. And God Bless This Mess.
You seem to have forgotten that when the government took positions back then, they later sold them just as they will do this time around.....that's capitalism, not socialism.
And start the mess again? I don't think the same mistake is gonna happen again. Though it returned to capitalism and left the hibrid model... but it was never socialism, it was a mix, and still is a mix, and it's gonna be more of a mix now. Actually no country has ever been 100 % capitalist, but yes 100 % socialist... and socialism fell earlier so. History tells both extremes models are not sustainable.
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mustangsally10:
Interesting article about Obama winning the 'rich' vote which he did by a big margin. http://www.newsweek.com/id/168333?from=rss I have been around very rich people all my life. And it seems that they are like other people, some are generous and some are not. I'm sure the generous ones will not mind paying more of their fair share for the benefit of everyone. The others of course will fight it tooth and nail
It depends a lot of the person... George Soros and Warren Buffet happen to be the 2 world's richest investors. And both claim taxes of the richest people should be increased since a long time ago....
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Moz will have to change one of the lyrics on this !
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mustangsally10:
Large fluctuations in the market come mostly from institutional investing and hedge funds and not individual investors. Hedge funds are almost totally unregulated and I understand that Soros is one who is being consulted about implementing some restrictions on Hedge Fund investing.
I hope so, everything that Soros says these days is just what happens next. And he says how could be avoided but politicians don't apply it, but it seems they're starting to do it.
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The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
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deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
I wish we could get a person with Obamas inteligence, charisma and personality.....i would not be bothered if it was white, female , male , gay, straight black or white.....ANYBODY ! Morrisey wasnt being totally negative when he wrote that......he had lived in LA for many years ( next door to Nancy Sinatra ) and finished with the following verse " See with your eyes, touch with your hands, please, hear through your ears, know in your soul, please. For haven't you me with you now? and I love you, I love you, I love you. And I love you, I love you, I love you. " Nancy singing Moz
plus he has some very wise words on our polictics " I've been dreaming of a time when The English are sick to death of Labour And Tories, and spit upon the name of Oliver Cromwell And denounce this royal line that still salute him And will salute him forever " Amen to that i am in there somewhere The last i heard he was living in Rome I dont want anything to happen to pippa (my dog) but when it does , i am off to Italy for a couple of months and get away from this shithole. -
Yes, we in US are very proud to have a black president-elect And it is good to see those from the US on this board appreciate the significance of that and give him their support.
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mustangsally10:
Yes, we in US are very proud to have a black president-elect And it is good to see those from the US on this board appreciate the significance of that and give him their support.
I noticed that
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moggy:
mustangsally10:
Yes, we in US are very proud to have a black president-elect And it is good to see those from the US on this board appreciate the significance of that and give him their support.
I noticed that
Hi Chris Yes, I am very proud of what the US has done. Yesterday on the telly I heard Brown give a speech at Guildhall. The speech lasted about a half hour. In it he mentioned Obamas election and it was the only applause he received during the speech. I still can not stop smiling at what we have done.
Take care -
Thanks....and you Yeah i think people worldwide (in general) are pleased to get a man of intellect and decency doing the job, and it gives everyone new hope for a brighter , safer future. I hope it isnt false hope like bLiar, but i hope he can unite the US and the world , and everyone gives him a chance.
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Someone's race, sex or age does not dictate their common sense with regards to intelligence. Political Charisma, Political Poetry, Ivy League Intelligence - that's great. That makes anyone with those qualities an effective speaker- star like qualities. These are a plus. The problem with some of us that could not vote for him was there was no history that proved that what he pointificated infront of an audience, he actually could follow through with. That was one of my main problems with him. To me he felt 'manufactured' by the Democratic Party. Within the Democratic Party there are some great people there with good records but unfortunately for the Liberals they come from the DLC. And for me what is an immediate alarm bell, is all the promises he made being erased from his website. That should send a signal to anyone
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Twisting oneself in a knott because of a change in a website sounds a little extreme to me. I think Obama is going to be a great president and there are a great majority of our best and brightest citizens who agree with me. Some people just need to relax nobody is coming to take away their dear possessions. All some can think of here are capital gain taxes and other taxes. There are alot more important things then material possessions.
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deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
I am sure he is aware that we have had a Woman Prime Minister and a Jewish Prime Minister. Indeed at the last election, I changed my mind at the last moment to vote for a Jewish Prime Minister due to the anti Semitic attacks on him by junior Labour party ministers and backbenchers to get the Muslim vote. Up until five years ago we had a asian and two black ministers that we well in the running for the position of leader of the labour party after Blair and Brown. Two were however as incompetent as all their colleagues and one is so sleazy that they blew their chances. The other is now the ambassador to South Africa by accepting such a move was a backward step. Had he stayed in the forefront of British politics he would have been excellently placed to have removed Brown in the summer. Uptil a mere six weeks ago I would have said we would have a coloured Prime Minister before the United States had a coloured President. I would not be surprised if the President -elect called the new dog Lehman. At the moment both parties have a couple of capable MP's from asian orgin. One of whom is a highly impressive performer but is slightly distancing himself from the government. For when the Brown and Blair dictatorship is finally over the Labour party will be looking for a clean pair of hands.