Why did John dominate the Hard Day's Night album?
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^^ enjoyed the article on John and Paul in The Atlantic above. Thanks for posting eusse.
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Paul:
The 'And' in the title was an important thing, 'And I Love Her', it came right out of left field, you were right up to speed the minute you heard it. The title comes in the second verse and it doesn't repeat.
Except that it does. It might be too late for anyone to accurately remember everything that happened back then.
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From 1970 to 1980, Lennon made claims of authorship and described the best he could who did what. He was human, so mistakes could be made. I don't remember McCartney contradicting Lennon at any point back then or taking issue. I am skeptical of any claims now that McCartney makes that radically challenge what we know. For starters, Lennon is long gone and cannot respond, so that is quite unfair. Second, why is Lennon's memory unreliable, but Paul's is not? He was taking the same drugs at the time, and marijuana use is known to cloud one's memory and thinking. I sometimes get the feeling Paul wants to rewrite history. He would have more credibility had he been saying these things in 1972 or 1975. Why would Lennon claim to write the middle part of And I Love Her if he didn't? McCartney now says he didn't. But I don't believe it.
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I think Ringo dominated that album. I HEAR Him on every TRACK
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wingsdgm:
I think Ringo dominated that album. I HEAR Him on every TRACK
Yeah!
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wingsdgm:
I think Ringo dominated that album. I HEAR Him on every TRACK
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RMartinez:
wingsdgm:
I think Ringo dominated that album. I HEAR Him on every TRACK
Yeah!
You forgot to add two more yeahs there.
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RMartinez:
From 1970 to 1980, Lennon made claims of authorship and described the best he could who did what. He was human, so mistakes could be made. I don't remember McCartney contradicting Lennon at any point back then or taking issue. I am skeptical of any claims now that McCartney makes that radically challenge what we know. For starters, Lennon is long gone and cannot respond, so that is quite unfair. Second, why is Lennon's memory unreliable, but Paul's is not? He was taking the same drugs at the time, and marijuana use is known to cloud one's memory and thinking. I sometimes get the feeling Paul wants to rewrite history. He would have more credibility had he been saying these things in 1972 or 1975. Why would Lennon claim to write the middle part of And I Love Her if he didn't? McCartney now says he didn't. But I don't believe it.
In the 70s, Paul was clearly losing the "PR" battle in the media and press with John. I think Paul wanted no part of the back-and-forth that occurred between them, mainly in 1970-1973 period. So, to come back and say I wrote the music to In My Life would make Paul seem petty and further antagonize John. So, Paul probably never responded on purpose.
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JoeySmith:
RMartinez:
From 1970 to 1980, Lennon made claims of authorship and described the best he could who did what. He was human, so mistakes could be made. I don't remember McCartney contradicting Lennon at any point back then or taking issue. I am skeptical of any claims now that McCartney makes that radically challenge what we know. For starters, Lennon is long gone and cannot respond, so that is quite unfair. Second, why is Lennon's memory unreliable, but Paul's is not? He was taking the same drugs at the time, and marijuana use is known to cloud one's memory and thinking. I sometimes get the feeling Paul wants to rewrite history. He would have more credibility had he been saying these things in 1972 or 1975. Why would Lennon claim to write the middle part of And I Love Her if he didn't? McCartney now says he didn't. But I don't believe it.
In the 70s, Paul was clearly losing the "PR" battle in the media and press with John. I think Paul wanted no part of the back-and-forth that occurred between them, mainly in 1970-1973 period. So, to come back and say I wrote the music to In My Life would make Paul seem petty and further antagonize John. So, Paul probably never responded on purpose.
Fair enough. And good point. But it seems a bit petty to do it now, I think. I guess if Paul sees the need to set some points straight, ok. But it's not going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. People are always going to say, "Paul wrote Yesterday. John wrote I Am The Walrus."
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RMartinez:
From 1970 to 1980, Lennon made claims of authorship and described the best he could who did what. He was human, so mistakes could be made. I don't remember McCartney contradicting Lennon at any point back then or taking issue. I am skeptical of any claims now that McCartney makes that radically challenge what we know. For starters, Lennon is long gone and cannot respond, so that is quite unfair. Second, why is Lennon's memory unreliable, but Paul's is not? He was taking the same drugs at the time, and marijuana use is known to cloud one's memory and thinking. I sometimes get the feeling Paul wants to rewrite history. He would have more credibility had he been saying these things in 1972 or 1975. Why would Lennon claim to write the middle part of And I Love Her if he didn't? McCartney now says he didn't. But I don't believe it.
Paul made these comments in 1994 in the book Many years from now ( published In 1997).Why he accepted to make that project? To let people know his version, after Lennon died, everybody took John's version as gospel( even when his memories are in many cases contradictory). Paul didnt answer John comments in the 70 s, because probably it wasn't the right time, he didn't want to start another media battle with John and he was very reluctant to talk about The Beatles, he was busy making Wings big. Ps: John claimed many things that weren't true and changed his memories frequently. For example, he said he wrote Norwegian wood and Day tripper alone. In early seventies interviews he accepted that Paul helped a lot in both songs- he even said that the middle eight of Norwegian Wood was Paul's- but in his last interview with Playboy he was enfatic that both songs were completely his. He also said that he wrote the 70 percent of the lyrics of Eleanor Rigby . Pete Shotton who was present when Paul showed the song to John and the others Beatles, said that John's contribution was virtually nil. McCartney also said, clearly upset, to Hunter Davies in 1981 (in a private conversation that later appered in 1985 version of his book The Beatles) "I saw somewhere that he says (John) he helped on Eleanor Rigby. Yeah. About half a line. He also forgot completely that I wrote the tune for In My Life. That was my tune. But perhaps he just made a mistake on that.?. Is ok if you don't believe in Paul, is your opinion. But is a fact, that in the seventies, Paul was very busy promoting and selling millions of records, defending Wings of the critics and conquering the world again. He only saw the real need of set the record straight about his contributions to The Beatles songs? when Lennon died. Why? Because immediately after John was shot, everybody began to write books taking Lennon`s version of the Beatles history as the only one, ?the truth? (even if his comments sometimes don?t match or left many doubts and questions) and declaring Lennon as the only and true genius of the band. So understandably, Paul finally gave his version and defended his contributions to the band. It doesn?t matter if some rabid Lennon?s fans call him a liar or an opportunist, McCartney?s decision to reveal his version (IMHO, it?s not flawless but more consistent, credible and detailed than Lennon?s) put him again in the same league as Lennon in The Beatles history and public perception. And I think is fair, because Paul was as important as John for the success of the band.
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To answer the question why Paul contributed so much less to A hard days night. I think the answer is because, in 1964, he gave too many songs (some of them deserved to be in The Beatles albums) to other artists and John kept all of his for The Beatles. Paul gave that year From the window, Il Keep you satisfied (Paul gave this song to Billy J. Kramer in late 1963), It's for you, I dont want see you again, nobody I know, the world without love, and one and one is two. Paul definitely realized he was making a mistake, because on Beatles for Sale, 4 songs were mainly McCartney ( eight days a week, I'll follow the sun,every little thing, what you're doing) , 3 songs were mainly Lennon ( no reply, im loser, I dont want spoil the party), and one was an equal collaboration (baby's in black) .The balance was clearly restored, then broke it again, in Sgt Pepper, but in that album in Paul 's favor . McCartney was the principal writer of 8 songs and Lennon was the main responsible of 3 (4 songs, if you count A Day in the Life, but Paul not only contributed the woke up section, he also -according to Lennon- wrote the melody and lyrics of the mini chorus " I love to turn you ..." and -according to McCartney, but nobody seem to believe him anyway- helped on the lyrics in the Lennon section. If all of that is true, to me is an equal collaboration, but is only my opinion, and I wasnt there, just like Paul said in Early Days lol ). Anyway, both were great. Ps The "I love like ours.." bit is far from being the 50 % percent of And I love her. Its more like a 20 % percent of it. I think And I love her is mostly Paul's, not an equal collaboration, even if John really contributed the short middle (I personally believe that Paul and John did that part together, like Dic k James said). Because that section is little in the context of the song, which is basically a McCartney composition.
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John dominates on Hard Day's Night because he was writing better songs and more of them than Paul at that point. It is no accident John had the title songs to the first two Beatle movies. He was better at it at that point. Paul even wrote Eight Days A Week to be the title song for Eight Arms To Hold You, but then John wrote Help! when the movie title was changed, and Paul lost the title song. Neither John nor Paul gave their best songs to other artists to record. Those songs mentioned above given to other artists likely would not have made the cut for a Beatles LP anyway. Yes, Paul was writing some crack material in the early days, but most of the great tunes were with John. And John with Paul. But Hard Day's Night is very much John's baby. He even wrote a song for George to sing on the LP!
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It looks like McCartney gave away many songs in the 1964, also guesting on some of them. Most songs have the Lennon/McCartney credits but it looks to me that McCartney was a bit more invloved in this than Lennon. Just check out "The Songs Lennon & McCartney Gave Away". I have no idea if this have anything to with it, it just crossed my mind. Maybe beacuse of his successful collaborations with Rihanna and Kanye West recently. He is an eager guest and collaboration participant to this day.
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RMartinez:
John dominates on Hard Day's Night because he was writing better songs and more of them than Paul at that point. It is no accident John had the title songs to the first two Beatle movies. He was better at it at that point. Paul even wrote Eight Days A Week to be the title song for Eight Arms To Hold You, but then John wrote Help! when the movie title was changed, and Paul lost the title song. Neither John nor Paul gave their best songs to other artists to record. Those songs mentioned above given to other artists likely would not have made the cut for a Beatles LP anyway. Yes, Paul was writing some crack material in the early days, but most of the great tunes were with John. And John with Paul. But Hard Day's Night is very much John's baby. He even wrote a song for George to sing on the LP!
Well, McCartney said that I'm happy just dance with you was an equal collaboration. I believe in Paul's version ( he even remembers the chords). But if you want to believe in John's version is alright too. To my ears , some of those songs that Paul gave away are Beatle material ( It's for you, From the Window, I don't want see you again, the World Without of Love) and equal or better than, for example, When I Get Home. John was writing more stuff for A Hard Day's Night, but two of the three big highlights included on that album are Paul's songs (Can't Buy me love and I and Love her). So I think , from the begining, both were in the same league, even if John was more productive in that album. Ps: John helped Paul in Eight days a week, and Paul helped John in Help. So I think both lost and won a title track. I know some John's fans will be upset, because they want to think that Help is completely Lennon, so I'm putting more information to backup my last comment, so everybody can take their own conclusions. In 1965, John accepted Paul's participation in the writing of Help, though later in his in " almost sacred" seventies interviews didn't mentioned Paul's help : JOHN: ?We wrote it in my house (Kenwood, in Weybridge),? Lennon stated shortly after the song was released. ?I had a little bit of a song, which I?d played around at writing, called something like ?Keep Your Hands Off My Babe.? Anyway, it was floating around for a long time and, when Paul came over, we decided to, sort of, adapt it. We wrote ?Help!? after we had been told of the film?s title. We never write to fit in with the story line, but this one seemed to fit okay.? That comment is taken from http://www.beatlesebooks.com/help! Richard Lester, remember both working in the song in Twickeham. ?When the second film was being prepared, under the imaginative working title ?Beatles Two,? the writers and I wanted to call it ?Help.? Unfortunately, we were informed by copyright lawyers that someone else had registered that title. Ringo, helpfully, offered ?Eight Arms To Hold You? (relating to the multi-armed statue in the script). Needless to say, there wasn?t a huge amount of enthusiasm to write that song?Another desperate phone call to the lawyers resulted in the question ? ?Does your title have an exclamation mark in it?? We said, ?if it helps, we can have one.? Since the other title didn?t, we were in the clear.? Lester continues, ?That afternoon, John and Paul borrowed the studio piano and started work. By the next morning, they played the finished song to us and recorded it the next night?John, years later, often said that ?Help!? was a very personal and emotional song for him. All thanks to an exclamation mark!? Paul 1994 ( Many Years from Now Book): : "I seem to remember Richard Lester, Brian Epstein, Walter Shenson and ourselves sitting around, maybe Victor Spinetti was there, and thinking, What are we going to call this one? Somehow Help! came out. I didn't suggest it; John might have suggested it or Richard Lester. It was one of them. John went home and thought about it and got the basis of it, then we had a writing session on it. We sat at his house and wrote it, so he obviously didn't have that much of it. I would have to credit it to John for original inspiration 70-30. My main contribution is the countermelody to John. If you analyse our songs, John's are often on one note, whereas mine are often much more melodic. I enjoy going places with melodies. I like what John did too, but his are more rhythmic. So to take away from the solo note a little bit I wrote a descant to it. Paul's Playboy interview (1984): "John wrote that... well, John and I wrote it at his house in Weybridge for the film. I think the title was out of desperation."
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eusse:
RMartinez:
John dominates on Hard Day's Night because he was writing better songs and more of them than Paul at that point. It is no accident John had the title songs to the first two Beatle movies. He was better at it at that point. Paul even wrote Eight Days A Week to be the title song for Eight Arms To Hold You, but then John wrote Help! when the movie title was changed, and Paul lost the title song. Neither John nor Paul gave their best songs to other artists to record. Those songs mentioned above given to other artists likely would not have made the cut for a Beatles LP anyway. Yes, Paul was writing some crack material in the early days, but most of the great tunes were with John. And John with Paul. But Hard Day's Night is very much John's baby. He even wrote a song for George to sing on the LP!
Well, McCartney said that I'm happy just dance with you was an equal collaboration. I believe in Paul's version ( he even remembers the chords). But if you want to believe in John's version is alright too. To my ears , some of those songs that Paul gave away are Beatle material ( It's for you, From the Window, I don't want see you again, the World Without of Love) and equal or better than, for example, When I Get Home. John was writing more stuff for A Hard Day's Night, but two of the three big highlights included on that album are Paul's songs (Can't Buy me love and I and Love her). So I think , from the begining, both were in the same league, even if John was more productive in that album. Ps: John helped Paul in Eight days a week, and Paul helped John in Help. So I think both lost and won a title track. I know some John's fans will be upset, because they want to think that Help is completely Lennon, so I'm putting more information to backup my last comment, so everybody can take their own conclusions. In 1965, John accepted Paul's participation in the writing of Help, though later in his in " almost sacred" seventies interviews didn't mentioned Paul's help : JOHN: ?We wrote it in my house (Kenwood, in Weybridge),? Lennon stated shortly after the song was released. ?I had a little bit of a song, which I?d played around at writing, called something like ?Keep Your Hands Off My Babe.? Anyway, it was floating around for a long time and, when Paul came over, we decided to, sort of, adapt it. We wrote ?Help!? after we had been told of the film?s title. We never write to fit in with the story line, but this one seemed to fit okay.? That comment is taken from http://www.beatlesebooks.com/help! Richard Lester, remember both working in the song in Twickeham. ?When the second film was being prepared, under the imaginative working title ?Beatles Two,? the writers and I wanted to call it ?Help.? Unfortunately, we were informed by copyright lawyers that someone else had registered that title. Ringo, helpfully, offered ?Eight Arms To Hold You? (relating to the multi-armed statue in the script). Needless to say, there wasn?t a huge amount of enthusiasm to write that song?Another desperate phone call to the lawyers resulted in the question ? ?Does your title have an exclamation mark in it?? We said, ?if it helps, we can have one.? Since the other title didn?t, we were in the clear.? Lester continues, ?That afternoon, John and Paul borrowed the studio piano and started work. By the next morning, they played the finished song to us and recorded it the next night?John, years later, often said that ?Help!? was a very personal and emotional song for him. All thanks to an exclamation mark!? Paul 1994 ( Many Years from Now Book): : "I seem to remember Richard Lester, Brian Epstein, Walter Shenson and ourselves sitting around, maybe Victor Spinetti was there, and thinking, What are we going to call this one? Somehow Help! came out. I didn't suggest it; John might have suggested it or Richard Lester. It was one of them. John went home and thought about it and got the basis of it, then we had a writing session on it. We sat at his house and wrote it, so he obviously didn't have that much of it. I would have to credit it to John for original inspiration 70-30. My main contribution is the countermelody to John. If you analyse our songs, John's are often on one note, whereas mine are often much more melodic. I enjoy going places with melodies. I like what John did too, but his are more rhythmic. So to take away from the solo note a little bit I wrote a descant to it. Paul's Playboy interview (1984): "John wrote that... well, John and I wrote it at his house in Weybridge for the film. I think the title was out of desperation."
In my opinion, Paul's 1994 comment and John's 1965 description of the writing of Help connect perfectly.
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Well, I can come up with a bunch of quotes where Paul is saying something different than what has been said before in his favor. Mr. Kite is one example. I don't believe he had a thing to do with writing that. But now he says he did. Whatever. John helped on Eight Days a Week. But it was mainly a Paul song. Paul helped on Help! But it is mainly a John song. So Paul lost more than John in having Help! be the movie title song. For my part, I am extremely skeptical of Paul's new takes on who wrote what. They all seem to "correct" his being more involved with John's songs than the other direction. Which would not hold up in court. If I heard him say, "John may have helped on Yesterday" or "John actually wrote a verse of Let It Be" then I might take it to heart. But slowly, he keeps coming up with insights that, in fact, he helped write songs that have always been considered John songs. I raise my eyebrow to that. I'm not buying it. Especially since Paul is the author of some of the most amazing songs of this era. How much glory does one person need? HE even said that a few years ago when asked about the small royalty payment he gets for Yesterday. Add to that John is not even around to say anything. I doubt Paul would be saying these things if John was still around.
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RMartinez:
Well, I can come up with a bunch of quotes where Paul is saying something different than what has been said before in his favor. Mr. Kite is one example. I don't believe he had a thing to do with writing that. But now he says he did. Whatever. John helped on Eight Days a Week. But it was mainly a Paul song. Paul helped on Help! But it is mainly a John song. So Paul lost more than John in having Help! be the movie title song. For my part, I am extremely skeptical of Paul's new takes on who wrote what. They all seem to "correct" his being more involved with John's songs than the other direction. Which would not hold up in court. If I heard him say, "John may have helped on Yesterday" or "John actually wrote a verse of Let It Be" then I might take it to heart. But slowly, he keeps coming up with insights that, in fact, he helped write songs that have always been considered John songs. I raise my eyebrow to that. I'm not buying it. Especially since Paul is the author of some of the most amazing songs of this era. How much glory does one person need? HE even said that a few years ago when asked about the small royalty payment he gets for Yesterday. Add to that John is not even around to say anything. I doubt Paul would be saying these things if John was still around.
I guess you also don't believe in John: JOHN: ?We wrote it in my house (Kenwood, in Weybridge),? Lennon stated shortly after the song was released. ?I had a little bit of a song, which I?d played around at writing, called something like ?Keep Your Hands Off My Babe.? Anyway, it was floating around for a long time and, when Paul came over, we decided to, sort of, adapt it. We wrote ?Help!? after we had been told of the film?s title. We never write to fit in with the story line, but this one seemed to fit okay.? In my opinion, Paul's 1994 comment and John's 1965 description of the writing of Help connect perfectly. Just because you don't want to hear or like what Paul is saying it doesn't mean he is lying. You weren't there, I wasn't there. So this discusion is useless, you have your opinion and I keep mine. By the way, Paul is saying he contributed to Mr Kite since 1984 ( Playboy Interview), is not a new claim.
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eusse:
RMartinez:
Well, I can come up with a bunch of quotes where Paul is saying something different than what has been said before in his favor. Mr. Kite is one example. I don't believe he had a thing to do with writing that. But now he says he did. Whatever. John helped on Eight Days a Week. But it was mainly a Paul song. Paul helped on Help! But it is mainly a John song. So Paul lost more than John in having Help! be the movie title song. For my part, I am extremely skeptical of Paul's new takes on who wrote what. They all seem to "correct" his being more involved with John's songs than the other direction. Which would not hold up in court. If I heard him say, "John may have helped on Yesterday" or "John actually wrote a verse of Let It Be" then I might take it to heart. But slowly, he keeps coming up with insights that, in fact, he helped write songs that have always been considered John songs. I raise my eyebrow to that. I'm not buying it. Especially since Paul is the author of some of the most amazing songs of this era. How much glory does one person need? HE even said that a few years ago when asked about the small royalty payment he gets for Yesterday. Add to that John is not even around to say anything. I doubt Paul would be saying these things if John was still around.
I guess you also don't believe in John: JOHN: ?We wrote it in my house (Kenwood, in Weybridge),? Lennon stated shortly after the song was released. ?I had a little bit of a song, which I?d played around at writing, called something like ?Keep Your Hands Off My Babe.? Anyway, it was floating around for a long time and, when Paul came over, we decided to, sort of, adapt it. We wrote ?Help!? after we had been told of the film?s title. We never write to fit in with the story line, but this one seemed to fit okay.? In my opinion, Paul's 1994 comment and John's 1965 description of the writing of Help connect perfectly. Just because you don't want to hear or like what Paul is saying it doesn't mean he is lying. You weren't there, I wasn't there. So this discusion is useless, you have your opinion and I keep mine.
Go for it. You have said nothing to change mine. Help! is primarily a John song. A Hard Day's Night is mainly, almost totally a John song. And a John album.
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RMartinez:
eusse:
RMartinez:
Well, I can come up with a bunch of quotes where Paul is saying something different than what has been said before in his favor. Mr. Kite is one example. I don't believe he had a thing to do with writing that. But now he says he did. Whatever. John helped on Eight Days a Week. But it was mainly a Paul song. Paul helped on Help! But it is mainly a John song. So Paul lost more than John in having Help! be the movie title song. For my part, I am extremely skeptical of Paul's new takes on who wrote what. They all seem to "correct" his being more involved with John's songs than the other direction. Which would not hold up in court. If I heard him say, "John may have helped on Yesterday" or "John actually wrote a verse of Let It Be" then I might take it to heart. But slowly, he keeps coming up with insights that, in fact, he helped write songs that have always been considered John songs. I raise my eyebrow to that. I'm not buying it. Especially since Paul is the author of some of the most amazing songs of this era. How much glory does one person need? HE even said that a few years ago when asked about the small royalty payment he gets for Yesterday. Add to that John is not even around to say anything. I doubt Paul would be saying these things if John was still around.
I guess you also don't believe in John: JOHN: ?We wrote it in my house (Kenwood, in Weybridge),? Lennon stated shortly after the song was released. ?I had a little bit of a song, which I?d played around at writing, called something like ?Keep Your Hands Off My Babe.? Anyway, it was floating around for a long time and, when Paul came over, we decided to, sort of, adapt it. We wrote ?Help!? after we had been told of the film?s title. We never write to fit in with the story line, but this one seemed to fit okay.? In my opinion, Paul's 1994 comment and John's 1965 description of the writing of Help connect perfectly. Just because you don't want to hear or like what Paul is saying it doesn't mean he is lying. You weren't there, I wasn't there. So this discusion is useless, you have your opinion and I keep mine.
Go for it. You have said nothing to change mine. Help! is primarily a John song. A Hard Day's Night is mainly, almost totally a John song. And a John album.
Paul said he helped on Mr Kite in 1984 (Playboy Interviews), so is not a new claim. But Ok, I'm not gonna waste my time anymore.
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Again, he said it once John was gone. He never said that in 1974. Why not? I'm not into revisionist history.