Dusseldorf, Germany- Esprit Arena- May 28th - ARCHIVE
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I don't have to be at a concert to know if the vocals are rough. Videos reveal this, if it is the case. It's ok to have an opinion about that. What I cannot do is decide for others whether they enjoyed the show or not. Clearly there are people who enjoy these shows regardless of the quality of Paul's voice, and that is ok. But I don't have to say his voice sounds great just so as not to upset some folks. As far as "adding to the conversation," what is ANYONE "adding" to it here? How is saying "He sounded fantastic!" adding to the conversation?
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RMartinez:
I don't have to be at a concert to know if the vocals are rough. Videos reveal this, if it is the case. It's ok to have an opinion about that. What I cannot do is decide for others whether they enjoyed the show or not. Clearly there are people who enjoy these shows regardless of the quality of Paul's voice, and that is ok. But I don't have to say his voice sounds great just so as not to upset some folks. As far as "adding to the conversation," what is ANYONE "adding" to it here? How is saying "He sounded fantastic!" adding to the conversation?
Agree, I don't get upset about remarks about his voice or the sound quality of the venue (because I agree to some extent) but why say: "The cloying fawning, gushing and swooning around here is called nostalgia. Some folks look at Paul today and still see the poster on their bedroom wall from their teenage days." ??? That almost feels like accusing people who enjoyed themselves depsite the sound quality or whatever. That's not an opinion, that's almost ridiculing fans. On what argument is that opinion based ?We are not idiots that only adore Paul..... Also: "? That's reality. Folks with no agenda offering objective opinions." (about the sound). I WAS THERE, I saw tenthousands of people enjoying themselves, yet "the folks with no agenda have an objective opinion"(says someone who was not there). What do you expect in a football stadium when it comes to sound ? Really, it's all about what you expect. Nobody forces you to pay 200 for a seated concert in a football stadium. Nobodytoldme said: "then it shouldn't be organized there". I'd rather have seen him at Concertgebouw or La Scala as well, but we know that is not going to happen any time soon, so we have to accept (or not) what is offered.
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servi:
RMartinez:
I don't have to be at a concert to know if the vocals are rough. Videos reveal this, if it is the case. It's ok to have an opinion about that. What I cannot do is decide for others whether they enjoyed the show or not. Clearly there are people who enjoy these shows regardless of the quality of Paul's voice, and that is ok. But I don't have to say his voice sounds great just so as not to upset some folks. As far as "adding to the conversation," what is ANYONE "adding" to it here? How is saying "He sounded fantastic!" adding to the conversation?
Agree, I don't get upset about remarks about his voice or the sound quality of the venue (because I agree to some extent) but why say: "The cloying fawning, gushing and swooning around here is called nostalgia. Some folks look at Paul today and still see the poster on their bedroom wall from their teenage days." ??? That almost feels like accusing people who enjoyed themselves depsite the sound quality or whatever. That's not an opinion, that's almost ridiculing fans. On what argument is that opinion based ?We are not idiots that only adore Paul..... Also: "? That's reality. Folks with no agenda offering objective opinions." (about the sound). I WAS THERE, I saw tenthousands of people enjoying themselves, yet "the folks with no agenda have an objective opinion"(says someone who was not there). What do you expect in a football stadium when it comes to sound ? Really, it's all about what you expect. Nobody forces you to pay 200 for a seated concert in a football stadium. Nobodytoldme said: "then it shouldn't be organized there". I'd rather have seen him at Concertgebouw or La Scala as well, but we know that is not going to happen any time soon, so we have to accept (or not) what is offered.
Good points. My sister and her husband are going to see Paul in Sacramento in October. I know she will enjoy the show, she loves Paul.
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nobodytoldme:
It must have been particularly bad, because I can't remember one McCartney gig with awful sound, not even at the places famous for it. They have their own rig, and they fix things. I wonder what happened.
This. All the McCartney gigs I have attended have sounded at least good and usually great. Warsaw was a big football stadium with the roof closed and it was quite loud/echoey but certainly not enough to spoil the show. Whatever happened it must have been pretty drastic to result in such backlash, I've never seen that after one of his shows. The positive is that the majority of the reviewers seemed to suggest that Paul/the band were on good form (although you could ask how they can possibly comment when they themselves said they couldn't hear anything clearly!)
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RockyRaccoon68:
nobodytoldme:
It must have been particularly bad, because I can't remember one McCartney gig with awful sound, not even at the places famous for it. They have their own rig, and they fix things. I wonder what happened.
This. All the McCartney gigs I have attended have sounded at least good and usually great. Warsaw was a big football stadium with the roof closed and it was quite loud/echoey but certainly not enough to spoil the show. Whatever happened it must have been pretty drastic to result in such backlash, I've never seen that after one of his shows. The positive is that the majority of the reviewers seemed to suggest that Paul/the band were on good form (although you could ask how they can possibly comment when they themselves said they couldn't hear anything clearly!)
just as it was!
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RMartinez:
servi:
RMartinez:
I don't have to be at a concert to know if the vocals are rough. Videos reveal this, if it is the case. It's ok to have an opinion about that. What I cannot do is decide for others whether they enjoyed the show or not. Clearly there are people who enjoy these shows regardless of the quality of Paul's voice, and that is ok. But I don't have to say his voice sounds great just so as not to upset some folks. As far as "adding to the conversation," what is ANYONE "adding" to it here? How is saying "He sounded fantastic!" adding to the conversation?
Agree, I don't get upset about remarks about his voice or the sound quality of the venue (because I agree to some extent) but why say: "The cloying fawning, gushing and swooning around here is called nostalgia. Some folks look at Paul today and still see the poster on their bedroom wall from their teenage days." ??? That almost feels like accusing people who enjoyed themselves depsite the sound quality or whatever. That's not an opinion, that's almost ridiculing fans. On what argument is that opinion based ?We are not idiots that only adore Paul..... Also: "? That's reality. Folks with no agenda offering objective opinions." (about the sound). I WAS THERE, I saw tenthousands of people enjoying themselves, yet "the folks with no agenda have an objective opinion"(says someone who was not there). What do you expect in a football stadium when it comes to sound ? Really, it's all about what you expect. Nobody forces you to pay 200 for a seated concert in a football stadium. Nobodytoldme said: "then it shouldn't be organized there". I'd rather have seen him at Concertgebouw or La Scala as well, but we know that is not going to happen any time soon, so we have to accept (or not) what is offered.
Good points. My sister and her husband are going to see Paul in Sacramento in October. I know she will enjoy the show, she loves Paul.
Well said! Know what to expect from the artist and venue and make a decision, go or not!
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mr.flamingpie:
servi:
moptops:
? That's reality. Folks with no agenda offering objective opinions. The cloying fawning, gushing and swooning around here is called nostalgia. Some folks look at Paul today and still see the poster on their bedroom wall from their teenage days. Others are overcome by being in the presence of their hero; or see an elderly man still sounding great "for 74." Being caught up in the afterglow is why fans still went to latter day Judy, Elvis and Sinatra and insisting they were still great and probably why that delusional bunch thought Wacko was a normal, beautiful, faultless human being. Fandom alters the reality.
de gustibus non est disputandum. Art and music are not objective. It's all just opinions. And opinions are like arses: everyone has got one. 90% of the fun for me is seeing Paul and his enthusiasm and charisma. Nothing wrong with that. I had one of the best evenings of my life (despite the sound and the fact that I have had much better seats at other concerts). I know the songs, heard them thousands of times. Can even play them on expensive equipment if I want. That's not the point. Even if sound and singing were completely perfect, there are artists I never would want to see live. It's all in the mind, y'know, just like the rest of your life... So people drive for hours to go to a concert at a football stadium (which Esprit Arena is), and then in retrospective start complaining about the sound ???? Really, that's quite unbelievable.... Why are we going to a museum to see a bowl or a ring or a knife that is 500 years old ? I have better ones and newer ones at home. On the other hand: anyone is entitled to give their opinion, but don't spoil the party with negativity. Don't condemn or ridicule fans because they enjoy theirselves. I fawn, gush, swoon or whatever when I feel like it,.. Still, the big acts are commercialised, seats are terribly expensive, as are drinks at the venue and merchandise. But if you see through that, you can have a wonderful experience imo.
But the sound was much more better in the case of the two amsterdam gig's last year (we both visited) Isn't it : IMO the disappointment of some fans is perspicuous.
NO the sound in the Ziggo Dome in Amsterdam was perfect. In the Esprit Arena was the sound a mess. It started with the dj mixing Paul's songs, terrible to listen to. I hoped the sound would be better during the show but it wasn't. This was my 8th gig of Paul and the worst comparing the sound.
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nobodytoldme:
I agree that it's nitpicking if people complain about things which are part of the game: a concert hall being crammed up with people, or nosebleed seats not having a perfect view or sound, or a rock and roll concert being loud, or having to wait a few minutes for a beer for a mass event. But this are complaints about the most crucial part of what people are paying for. If they can't get the part of the sound of a concert together, then they shouldn't have picked that place/that equipment. For me personally, a 200 euro ticket for an almost 3 hour long concert has to guarantee you of the main thing you are paying for and want to enjoy: at least proper sound. If that's not possible in this stadium, then it shouldn't have been organised at the place. It must have been particularly bad, because I can't remember one McCartney gig with awful sound, not even at the places famous for it. They have their own rig, and they fix things. I wonder what happened.
I bought my tickets through the presale on PaulMcCartney.com. As soon as I entered the presale they offered tickets that I accepted, not knowing that I was in a section that was that far away from the stage and were it wasn't possible to watch the backscreens of the stage. IMO seats like these shouldn't be offered just to get as many people as possible inside the venue.
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finished writing a 12 page long report today (mainly for our own; my wife and me) about the dusseldorf adventure. It's in german language with lots of great pictures. For all who can read german here is a link to a pdf hosted on dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/awzztx93s2rqk94/Konzertbericht%20Duesseldorf%202016.pdf?dl=0. For the big rest: Here are some of the major thoughts: McCartney left the hotel (Breitenbacher) at 16:15 there he signed a photo for a little 7? years old boy. After that his car drove slowy till traffic light (Heinrich-Heine Street / Koeningsallee). During this ~50 meters 5 other and myself get handshake with Paul McCartney we arrived esprit arena at 19:10. The situation there was confused. There were no signs to find our way to block A3. After by the tour book a drink and asking the security we reached our seats in roundabout way at 20:05. While entering the arena preshow was nearly over and we noticed a very unusually bad sound for a Paul McCartney concert! We thought and hoped that this is only be the case for the preshow...At 20:15 McCartney entered the stage and an enthusiastic crowd was standing while the first chords of AHDN sounded. At our Place row 8 at block A3 (left from the "in front of the stage" block A4) were still a terrible sound. It noticeable strained our thorax! We saw more than a handfull people leaving (never retourned) the arena during the first 20 min. My wife pregnant thought to go outside at least for a while... but she placed directly behind me and that was the solution for her. Save us was extremly hardly to listen. Atmosphere wasn't good surely cause of the not well known song. Followed my paul first german announce this evening: heute Nacht werde ich mein Bestes geben... my god ... ein bisschen deutsch zu sprechen" (I'll do my best to speak [here is stops a bit with a "my god" trying to say bisschen=a little bit] .. a little bit german this night.) During the songs till the piano it seemed that Paul did reached the crowd more with his german announce. IMO that was absolutly caused by the sound (at least in the area around me) While there were of course some fans directly in front of stage which had fun! Rustys solo during My Valentime was hardly to listen cause it was drowned by McCartneys piano (@ The Eggman67 already wrote it)! Sometime during the piano-set beginning with there were two engineers on stage. I can't really say whether is helps a bit. The intro chords for Here, There and Everywhere sounded like McCartneys live intro for The Long and Winding Road during the last years. Before "We can work it out" Paul spoke about his german and the hamburg days. where he learned "schlechtes Deutsch" (bad words) - Worte, die er nicht wiederholen k?nne "words he can't like to repeat" and closed with "You know the words I know the words...") After "We can work it out" he introduced "In Spite of All the Danger" with the german words: Das erste Lied, welches wir als Beatles aufgenommen haben " (This is the first songs we recorded as Beatles). The Reprise to In Spite of All the Danger did get great response thru the "wooo ooo oooh" part by the crowd. McCartney seems to be in a better mood. In the case of "You Won't See Me" he sounds in lines like "if feels like years" better than during the april shows. Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite is still a "fresh song" although it is no real pure McCartney song :. As new intro for "Something" McCartney spoke again about his hamburg days. Paul told that he had learned a little bit of german at school and that only he and George knew some words in german to order food. He imitated the way they order food: "Zwei Frikadellen bitte (meat balls please), Spiegeleier mit Toast (fried eggs on toast). Gem?seplatte (vegetable plate). By the way could he really ordered vegetable plate in Hamburg in the early 60's?. The rest of the show till the encore was (unfortunatelly well known). All songs worked very well as usual... but there was nothing exciting for us. After Yesterday McCartney invited a girl (Mathilda) and her mother (Jana) on stage. Paul singned a "tug of war" sketch of Mathilda. At the end of Birthday we left the arena. Out side waited a local tv station for interviews but we didn't stop our sprint trying the catch the next metro... Finally we toke a taxi back to the hotel (Breitenbacher Hof). Paul arrived there at 23:17 he waved to ~50 fans and entered the hotel. A wonderful "Paul McCartney Adventure day" finished for me. The concert itself was - by all our admiration for paul and the band - below average. I'm sorry to tell it in this kind but we saw better Paul McCartney concerts in the past (Wien 2013 was the top, Amsterdam 2nd night 2015 number 2 and Berlin 2009 number 3). Our rating based 50 % on the sound (knowing McCartney himself isn't responsible for it) and the other 50 % on the setlist. Because MPL and co promoted "One on One" powerful as a new tour there were high expectations... here there and everywhere... But we got a Out there 2.0 setlist. IMO "One on one" tour is a further tour which is overshadowed by the big Beatles factor. While a fan for all "Paul McCartney output decades" have to search songs from the last 30-40 years with a magnifying glass except the three songs from NEW. Our concert highlight was "Letting Go" + the "new acoustic set songs" "In Spite of All the Danger" and "You Won't See Me" with their great arrangement. Further songs we really enjoyed to listen live again were: Temporary Secretary; My Valentine; Here, There and Everywhere; And I Love Her; Queenie Eye; New; HiHiHi and Birthday.
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servi:
But you have NO arguments to justify your opinion. You were not even there..... So what does your opinion add to this forum if there are no solid arguments ? Try to answer that question ! Which arguments/proof do you have for "opinions" like: -The cloying fawning, gushing and swooning around here is called nostalgia. -Some folks look at Paul today and still see the poster on their bedroom wall from their teenage days. -Others are overcome by being in the presence of their hero; or see an elderly man still sounding great "for 74."
What I opined is fact. 1. A failing faltering wobbly voice, when it happens is fact - not opinion. A weaker voice is fact - not opinion. That's not just a subjective thing. Refusing to believe or accept that fact is delusional. 2. While I wasn't at Dusseldorf, for mine he sounded in better voice than any of the other tour shows thus far, and Paris was better too. THAT is my opinion and I have posted those thoughts earlier. 3. Fandom (for the most part) is blind loyalty and what I stated apropos that is ALL over this board. That is fact.
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