MEAT EATERS-SHAME ON YOU
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simplyrahil:
Boggle:
There are some bitter and twisted people on this thread, that need to get a life of their own and not worry about others so much!
the actual bitter and twisted people are those who do not care/worry about LIFE, the lives of innocent animals while consciously paying for their murders and eating their flesh.
typical mentality of the self-righteous. and I've learned to be wary of those who use life in all capital letters claiming they are superior. I've seen them deny me health care and blow up medical buildings. as well as pass laws to keep others like gays down. I've learned to be very very wary....of those that call themselves for LIFE.
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me2:
Dierdra:
me2:
Dierdra:
A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. ..........................................
Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks.
@ me2 I said "aggressive approaches", and to non vegans, that is virtually anything that makes them think about what they are doing! We vegans only have to "look" at non-vegans to get them going... I was not talking about acts of aggression...but just calling carnists out on the constant brutal murder of animals which happens every single day, across the entire world....simply because of human greed.... And that is considered an "aggressive approach" by carnists... Any words spoken by vegans is ammunition for them to jump up and start a riot...you just don't like being reminded, in any way, of what you support and pay for by your food choices. That is NOT our fault....that is your conscience talking...maybe you should listen to it.... There is nothing vegans can do, beyond treating carnists with kid gloves and gentle words...and we will NOT do that when the stakes are so astronomically high...for ALL the animals who are suffering.
Unfortunately you didn't answer my question. I was asking you for a link to the studies/articles you mentioned. I would have loved to read them. But they probably don't exist, for you would have mentioned the links if they did. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would stil love to read them.
the studies don't exist. what I'm getting is that she is defending her right to use force to get people to see her views. history shows that works very well, doesn't it?
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"there you go making assumptions that I eat meat. there you go again. and it is part of the topic. once i saw the arguements were the same, I asked myself questions about matters of control. " accept the fact that your argument is ineffective and that a non-vegan has converted more to the idea then you you state you are non-vegan, so there is no assumption therefore you do pay for murder stop with your silly tangential excuses and accept that you pay for murder and that this perpetuates the killing of innocent animals and more importantly, stop eating animals simple as that
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Kathryn O:
me2:
Dierdra:
me2:
Dierdra:
A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. ..........................................
Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks.
@ me2 I said "aggressive approaches", and to non vegans, that is virtually anything that makes them think about what they are doing! We vegans only have to "look" at non-vegans to get them going... I was not talking about acts of aggression...but just calling carnists out on the constant brutal murder of animals which happens every single day, across the entire world....simply because of human greed.... And that is considered an "aggressive approach" by carnists... Any words spoken by vegans is ammunition for them to jump up and start a riot...you just don't like being reminded, in any way, of what you support and pay for by your food choices. That is NOT our fault....that is your conscience talking...maybe you should listen to it.... There is nothing vegans can do, beyond treating carnists with kid gloves and gentle words...and we will NOT do that when the stakes are so astronomically high...for ALL the animals who are suffering.
Unfortunately you didn't answer my question. I was asking you for a link to the studies/articles you mentioned. I would have loved to read them. But they probably don't exist, for you would have mentioned the links if they did. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would stil love to read them.
the studies don't exist. what I'm getting is that she is defending her right to use force to get people to see her views. history shows that works very well, doesn't it?
I am not a fool Kathryn and I think you are right about that. But I am willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. So I asked again for these links. And I would indeed be interested in reading them, for I have always learned otherwise. And in my profession communication was very important. Using force to convince people of one's convictions may have worked in the past, especially for those in power or for those who had to deal with very subassertive, dependent people, but somehow it is my impression more and more people don't accept being bullied any longer by anyone. And imo that's a good thing as we all have to go our own way. As I said before: We are all in our own state of spiritual awareness and you can't force anyone to go faster than they can.
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Kathryn O:
Dierdra:
Kathryn...I wouldn't trust an ex vegan as far as I could throw one...seriously... You know better but continue to use animals for your own selfish needs...that's wrong and I think you know that, however deep down you have buried it... .
Like I said before, every vegan or macrobiotic I knew smoked crack shot heroin, chain smoked and drank themselves into stupors all the time. the hard drugs were too much. I could name names of prominent militant vegans in my community who I was once close too. and the new crop of vegans don't look much better. (Bob is such a killjoy and does not even the things he can to change his situation).
Okay, not trying to have an argument as usual. But just noting that I for one, being a veggie, have never done crack or heroin in my life. I have never been addicted to any drug or alcohol, thanks to the powers of the Universe. And I have never even smoked a cigarette, except I tried a cigarette once and almost passed out. Not mentioning other things I have tried, certainly not a party pooper...but it was fun and recreational and never gave me a problem. I would not pigeon hole any veggie/vegan as to excessive drug use it is just a distraction. Seems like veggies and vegans are being stereotyped here. I know a lot of veggies and vegans who participate in running, yoga, all types of sports, and lead healthy happy lives. None of my friends use crack or heroin. No drug, alcohol anything to an excess. In fact most are completely drug free. Just chiming in here with my experience. Peace & Love!
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hey_kittay:
Seems like veggies and vegans are being stereotyped here. I know a lot of veggies and vegans who participate in running, yoga, all types of sports, and lead healthy happy lives. None of my friends use crack or heroin. No drug, alcohol anything to an excess. In fact most are completely drug free. Just chiming in here with my experience.
same here never in my entire life have i used or tried any such intoxicants, drugs, mind-altering substances oh, but i guess declaring this in opposition now to what the BOSS said above would be 'self-righteous' once more : take out your issues kathryn with those who are around you who you described, not on VEGANS as a whole and still, your excuse is weak for not being a vegan accept the murder you pay for and stop doing it THAT is the point of all of this and of this thread
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I am NOT saying the more graphic photos and videos work on every single person...but that in my experience talking to people, online communications and what I have read on hundreds of sites as per people's experience with viewing those graphic images...that they are often a good starting point to get them thinking and wanting to do better in respect to their food choices. To think with compassion and empathy for animals "sometimes" requires that people get a rude awakening. Personally, I was vegetarian for 12 years and it wasn't until I watched graphic footage of dairy farming, and then researched and saw the horrific pictures that I went vegan and gave up all dairy products. I needed that awful jolt to see what I had been supporting in my own food choices. The amazing health benefits of eating a plant based diet is just a wondrous perk! I do this for animals...period. Because when people know the facts of what animals go through and then still contribute to it....that's the worst kind of hypocrisy. -------------------------------------------------- There are two studies on this site, one is not so positive about graphic images working...BUT, you need to read the entire article to see why they think that first study quoted was flawed and the second study done by the Humane Research Council (HRC) was more accurate. Read the whole article to get the full affect of what they are trying to say. Here is one of the studies: http://www.humanespot.org/content/video-comparison-study ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what was said about it here: http://strikingattheroots.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/how-do-graphic-images-affect-animal-advocacy/ The other study is linked in the article... -------- "The study, conducted by the Humane Research Council (HRC) on behalf of VegFund, asked people between the ages of 15 and 23 to watch vegetarian/vegan outreach videos and then complete a survey. Following the popular pay-per-view outreach model, each participant received $1.00 to watch one of four short videos. The videos were: Farm to Fridge (Mercy For Animals): An intensely graphic appeal to ethics/compassion using footage of farmed-animal abuse sourced mostly from undercover investigations. Maxine?s Dash for Freedom (Farm Sanctuary): An appeal to ethics/compassion by telling the story of a cow who escaped slaughter and was rescued. A Life Connected (Nonviolence United): An appeal for consumers to connect with concerns about the impact of factory farming on animals, the environment, and/or human health. Geico Couple (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine): An appeal to health concerns by telling the story of a couple who adopted a vegan diet and successfully lost weight. After watching the video, participants were asked questions about what they learned; if they wanted more information about eating vegetarian or vegan; about their current levels of meat, dairy, and egg consumption; and whether they intended to reduce consumption of any animal products. In contrast to the study carried out with partial funding from FARM, the HRC survey found that graphic images had the biggest impact, with the grisly candor of Farm to Fridge resulting in 36 percent of participants saying they were considering a reduction of the animal products they consume?that is an average of 7 percent better than the other, much less graphic, videos, even though viewers on average were only able to endure 78 percent of Mercy For Animals? video."
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I'm vegetarian for many reasons. Starting from when I was a child and realized that 'meat' was dead animals I was never comfortable eating meat and mostly ate vegetables. Then I made the decision to not eat any animals including fish and that worked very well for me. I've always been very healthy and happy and I think part of that has been my diet. About 2 years ago I decided to try going vegan and it was really easy for me It was all about new recipes and new products and took me about 2 weeks and I've never looked back. Now with all the evidence pointing to livestock production being a huge contributor to climate change there is another reason. I've always had a close connection to nature, it's been an important part of my life. So anything that I can do to protect our planet and that includes the species we share the planet with I will do. I think it's really empowering to live your values at least for me it has been.
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Dierdra:
I am NOT saying the more graphic photos and videos work on every single person...but that in my experience talking to people, online communications and what I have read on hundreds of sites as per people's experience with viewing those graphic images...that they are often a good starting point to get them thinking and wanting to do better in respect to their food choices. To think with compassion and empathy for animals "sometimes" requires that people get a rude awakening. Personally, I was vegetarian for 12 years and it wasn't until I watched graphic footage of dairy farming, and then researched and saw the horrific pictures that I went vegan and gave up all dairy products. I needed that awful jolt to see what I had been supporting in my own food choices. The amazing health benefits of eating a plant based diet is just a wondrous perk! I do this for animals...period. Because when people know the facts of what animals go through and then still contribute to it....that's the worst kind of hypocrisy. -------------------------------------------------- There are two studies on this site, one is not so positive about graphic images working...BUT, you need to read the entire article to see why they think that first study quoted was flawed and the second study done by the Humane Research Council (HRC) was more accurate. Read the whole article to get the full affect of what they are trying to say. Here is one of the studies: http://www.humanespot.org/content/video-comparison-study ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what was said about it here: http://strikingattheroots.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/how-do-graphic-images-affect-animal-advocacy/ The other study is linked in the article... -------- "The study, conducted by the Humane Research Council (HRC) on behalf of VegFund, asked people between the ages of 15 and 23 to watch vegetarian/vegan outreach videos and then complete a survey. Following the popular pay-per-view outreach model, each participant received $1.00 to watch one of four short videos. The videos were: Farm to Fridge (Mercy For Animals): An intensely graphic appeal to ethics/compassion using footage of farmed-animal abuse sourced mostly from undercover investigations. Maxine?s Dash for Freedom (Farm Sanctuary): An appeal to ethics/compassion by telling the story of a cow who escaped slaughter and was rescued. A Life Connected (Nonviolence United): An appeal for consumers to connect with concerns about the impact of factory farming on animals, the environment, and/or human health. Geico Couple (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine): An appeal to health concerns by telling the story of a couple who adopted a vegan diet and successfully lost weight. After watching the video, participants were asked questions about what they learned; if they wanted more information about eating vegetarian or vegan; about their current levels of meat, dairy, and egg consumption; and whether they intended to reduce consumption of any animal products. In contrast to the study carried out with partial funding from FARM, the HRC survey found that graphic images had the biggest impact, with the grisly candor of Farm to Fridge resulting in 36 percent of participants saying they were considering a reduction of the animal products they consume?that is an average of 7 percent better than the other, much less graphic, videos, even though viewers on average were only able to endure 78 percent of Mercy For Animals? video."
Thank you for your reply Deirdra. I know about these studies. And my question wasn't about their subject (politely asking people to watch certain photos/videos and measure the effect these videos had on them). My question was:
me2:
Dierdra:
A lot of people on here have been saying that the aggressive approaches from vegans, along with the more graphic animal rights photos and videos are not effective and drive people away from trying veganism... Some studies have been done showing that to be inaccurate, and there are ongoing programs at this time that are also showing that to be wrong. ..........................................
Could you give me the links to some of these scientific articles/studies where it is shown to be effective trying to persuade people to one's point of view by communicating with them in an aggressive way? I am not referring to photos or videos. I am referring to the interaction, the way we treat others while trying to persuade them. Thanks.
That's something different and very applicable to this thread. And not just this thread and not just one side. And therefore very interesting.
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"Yes, thank you for bullying me, shaming me, harassing me with your views on vegetarianism that even included calling me names and insulting me. It totally converted me," Said no person ever.
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excuses, excuses, blame my not being to stick to not paying for killing animals on vegans says kathryn o constantly
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simplyrahil:
excuses, excuses, blame my not being to stick to not paying for killing animals on vegans says kathryn o constantly
I don't think that's what she said or meant simplyrahil. She may have been referring to what I have said before, which may be summarized as this: Please feel free to agree or disagree. But no need to bully or insult or condemn anyone for this opinion imo.
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I was just thinking: Is cannibalism, as in human meat consumption by humans okay as well? I mean it IS just another type of meat. What is the difference to meat eaters? I am really wondering what you all think about cannibalism of human beings who are overpopulating the world. Some tribes in the world practise it, among other groups of humans. Is that acceptable too?
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me2:
simplyrahil:
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Love the pic, Rahil. Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
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hey_kittay:
I was just thinking: Is cannibalism, as in human meat consumption by humans okay as well? I mean it IS just another type of meat. What is the difference to meat eaters? I am really wondering what you all think about cannibalism of human beings who are overpopulating the world. Some tribes in the world practise it, among other groups of humans. Is that acceptable too?
Meat is meat. It's all dead flesh, no difference.
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Lone Raven:
Love the pic, Rahil. Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
indeed, Lone Raven but i guess the FAMOUS PERSONS in the photo making those statements so boldly on t-shirts like that, whose site we happen to be posting on, are also 'bullying', 'trying to control', 'harassing', 'insulting', 'trolling', etc. with making such bold statements for the animals/against killing them FOR THE WORLD to see, no less
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Lone Raven:
hey_kittay:
I was just thinking: Is cannibalism, as in human meat consumption by humans okay as well? I mean it IS just another type of meat. What is the difference to meat eaters? I am really wondering what you all think about cannibalism of human beings who are overpopulating the world. Some tribes in the world practise it, among other groups of humans. Is that acceptable too?
Meat is meat. It's all dead flesh, no difference.
Thankyou for your honest answer.