'rock and roll' classics by lennon or 'run devil run' paul?
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The beeb:
John on the other hand was the more adventuress and did a slightly more idiosyncratic take on the well known class hicks "sweet little sixteen " being a standout egg-sample (or should that be egg- sandwich??)This album for me was John having a bit of fun with out having to work "too" hard .Any which ways, both got the job done,the band got paid and the boys did good !!
kapoo:
You know another funny thing, I think Rip It Up was a track used from the 1973 Spector sessions. I could be wrong on that... But if so John may have only been 33 on the track. cuase of the whole delay in release that ensued. and John referenced his true age (same as Ringo) in the Ringo track I'm the Greatest, now I'm only 32. and so I guess its possible he could have even been younger!
"You can't catch me" - "Sweet Little Sixteen" - "Bony Moronie" - "Just Because" (off of "Rock'n'Roll") "Here we go again" - "Angel Baby" - "Since my baby left me" - "To know her is to love her" (off of "Menlove Ave") These tracks are all produced by Phil Spector. According to various books on the subject, all John did was turn up, drink and sing the songs. Spector did all the arrangements etc. On "Bebap a lula" - "Rip it up/Ready Teddy" - "Stand by me" - "Ain't that a shame" - "Do you wanna dance" - "Slippin and slidin" - "Peggy Sue" - "Bring it on home to me/Send me some lovin'" - "Ya ya" John did the production and arrangements etc. It's hard to tell which sessions produced the better songs. But I have a slight preference for the Spector tracks. Particularly the ones that didn't make the "Rock'n'roll" album.
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lazydynamite88:
ive got to be honest and say i am NOT an impartial judge. but really,there is no comparisson at all.the lennon rock n roll album is pretty lame by any exbeatle standards..he absolutely ruined 'stand by me' and that was the major release. both mccartneys rock n roll records are miles better with 'run devil' being the best of the lot!
John sounded totally lost...and so self conscious on his Rock n' Roll album. The rock standards he did with The Beatles ("Slow Down" and "Bad Boy" for instance) were so vastly superior. As I recall, the only thing I liked at all on his Rock n' Roll album was the slowed-down vampy version of "Sweet Little Sixteen". His "Stand By Me" was painful to hear. He couldn't hit the notes and the style sounded like a forties' big band trying to do rock. Embarrassing. ops:
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Beatles4Ever&Ever:
lazydynamite88:
ive got to be honest and say i am NOT an impartial judge. but really,there is no comparisson at all.the lennon rock n roll album is pretty lame by any exbeatle standards..he absolutely ruined 'stand by me' and that was the major release. both mccartneys rock n roll records are miles better with 'run devil' being the best of the lot!
John sounded totally lost...and so self conscious on his Rock n' Roll album. The rock standards he did with The Beatles ("Slow Down" and "Bad Boy" for instance) were so vastly superior. As I recall, the only thing I liked at all on his Rock n' Roll album was the slowed-down vampy version of "Sweet Little Sixteen". His "Stand By Me" was painful to hear. He couldn't hit the notes and the style sounded like a forties' big band trying to do rock. Embarrassing. ops:
The opposite of what you said is true. That's what's weird. The self consciousness was on the Beatles tracks, and it worked. Obviously worked for you. But there is literally ZERO self consciousness on the Rock n Roll album, and anyone who says that.. Wow, weird opinion.
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Stand By Me is a great cover version, it's better than the original. JL's RNR is a fantastic record. I like Paul's RDR, but not as much as John's If I wanna listen to a rock and roll CD. I play this one: John and Paul Rock N Roll J: "Medley: Rip It Up/Ready Teddy" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Lucille" (Richard Penniman/Albert Collins) Choba B CCCP J: "Slippin' and Slidin'" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Twenty Flight Rock" Choba B CCCP J: "Peggy Sue" Rock 'N' Roll P: ?All Shook Up? Run Devil Run J: "Bony Moronie" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Crackin' Up" Choba B CCCP J: "Medley: Bring It On Home to Me/Send Me Some Lovin'" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Lawdy Miss Clawdy" Choba B CCCP J: "Do You Wanna Dance?" Rock 'N' Roll P: "She Said Yeah" Run Devil Run J: "Ain't That a Shame" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Kansas City" Choba B CCCP J: "You Can't Catch Me" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Don't Get Around Much Anymore" Choba B CCCP J: "Be-Bop-A-Lula" Rock 'N' Roll P: "I Got Stung" Run Devil Run J: "Sweet Little Sixteen" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Honey Hush" Run Devil Run J: "Ya Ya" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Ain't That a Shame" Choba B CCCP J: "Stand by Me" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Party" Run Devil Run
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dcshark:
Stand By Me is a great cover version, it's better than the original. JL's RNR is a fantastic record. I like Paul's RDR, but not as much as John's If I wanna listen to a rock and roll CD. I play this one: John and Paul Rock N Roll J: "Medley: Rip It Up/Ready Teddy" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Lucille" (Richard Penniman/Albert Collins) Choba B CCCP J: "Slippin' and Slidin'" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Twenty Flight Rock" Choba B CCCP J: "Peggy Sue" Rock 'N' Roll P: ?All Shook Up? Run Devil Run J: "Bony Moronie" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Crackin' Up" Choba B CCCP J: "Medley: Bring It On Home to Me/Send Me Some Lovin'" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Lawdy Miss Clawdy" Choba B CCCP J: "Do You Wanna Dance?" Rock 'N' Roll P: "She Said Yeah" Run Devil Run J: "Ain't That a Shame" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Kansas City" Choba B CCCP J: "You Can't Catch Me" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Don't Get Around Much Anymore" Choba B CCCP J: "Be-Bop-A-Lula" Rock 'N' Roll P: "I Got Stung" Run Devil Run J: "Sweet Little Sixteen" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Honey Hush" Run Devil Run J: "Ya Ya" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Ain't That a Shame" Choba B CCCP J: "Stand by Me" Rock 'N' Roll P: "Party" Run Devil Run
That is a great playlist! I remember you dug the idea way back when http://maccaboard.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=74401&highlight=choba++roll+shaved+wings+greatest+fish I'm with you that these guys did these songs the way they were meant to be! Their covers are amazing.
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Beatles4Ever&Ever:
His "Stand By Me" was painful to hear. He couldn't hit the notes and the style sounded like a forties' big band trying to do rock. Embarrassing. ops:
Nonsense to say it embarrassing. Stand By Me was a great cover. His Slippin' and Slidin' rocked, as did his Peggy Sue, Send Me Some Lovin', Be Bop a Lula. All solid versions with swampy horns.
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kapoo:
Beatles4Ever&Ever:
lazydynamite88:
ive got to be honest and say i am NOT an impartial judge. but really,there is no comparisson at all.the lennon rock n roll album is pretty lame by any exbeatle standards..he absolutely ruined 'stand by me' and that was the major release. both mccartneys rock n roll records are miles better with 'run devil' being the best of the lot!
John sounded totally lost...and so self conscious on his Rock n' Roll album. The rock standards he did with The Beatles ("Slow Down" and "Bad Boy" for instance) were so vastly superior. As I recall, the only thing I liked at all on his Rock n' Roll album was the slowed-down vampy version of "Sweet Little Sixteen". His "Stand By Me" was painful to hear. He couldn't hit the notes and the style sounded like a forties' big band trying to do rock. Embarrassing. ops:
The opposite of what you said is true. That's what's weird. The self consciousness was on the Beatles tracks, and it worked. Obviously worked for you. But there is literally ZERO self consciousness on the Rock n Roll album, and anyone who says that.. Wow, weird opinion.
I guess we'll just disagree. IMO, John rocked with The Beatles....and not in any self-conscious way. On his own, he rarely rocked. Period. As Rolling Stone once observed: If John Lennon likes rock 'n' roll so much, why doesn't he ever do any? They were (mostly) right. His Rock n' Roll album rarely actually rocked, and most of his solo albums didn't have much rock, not as one might have expected they would. I always thought it strange that he seemed to want out of The Beatles so he could do more rock music; George Martin's production not doing it for him, being more suited for Paul's songs; and then he proceeds to make a lot of (his own) "muzak," which he derided Paul for doing. "Bless You", for one example, done for Yoko, is tons more smaltzy than, say, Paul's "My Love" was for Linda. IMO. One is hard pressed to find rock and roll songs on either "Mind Games" or "Walls and Bridges". John wrote better songs that rocked for Ringo than he did for himself....IMO. It's all opinion. I have mine and you have yours.
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Beatles4Ever&Ever:
kapoo:
Beatles4Ever&Ever:
lazydynamite88:
ive got to be honest and say i am NOT an impartial judge. but really,there is no comparisson at all.the lennon rock n roll album is pretty lame by any exbeatle standards..he absolutely ruined 'stand by me' and that was the major release. both mccartneys rock n roll records are miles better with 'run devil' being the best of the lot!
John sounded totally lost...and so self conscious on his Rock n' Roll album. The rock standards he did with The Beatles ("Slow Down" and "Bad Boy" for instance) were so vastly superior. As I recall, the only thing I liked at all on his Rock n' Roll album was the slowed-down vampy version of "Sweet Little Sixteen". His "Stand By Me" was painful to hear. He couldn't hit the notes and the style sounded like a forties' big band trying to do rock. Embarrassing. ops:
The opposite of what you said is true. That's what's weird. The self consciousness was on the Beatles tracks, and it worked. Obviously worked for you. But there is literally ZERO self consciousness on the Rock n Roll album, and anyone who says that.. Wow, weird opinion.
I guess we'll just disagree. IMO, John rocked with The Beatles....and not in any self-conscious way. On his own, he rarely rocked. Period. As Rolling Stone once observed: If John Lennon likes rock 'n' roll so much, why doesn't he ever do any? They were (mostly) right. His Rock n' Roll album rarely actually rocked, and most of his solo albums didn't have much rock, not as one might have expected they would. I always thought it strange that he seemed to want out of The Beatles so he could do more rock music; George Martin's production not doing it for him, being more suited for Paul's songs; and then he proceeds to make a lot of (his own) "muzak," which he derided Paul for doing. "Bless You", for one example, done for Yoko, is tons more smaltzy than, say, Paul's "My Love" was for Linda. IMO. One is hard pressed to find rock and roll songs on either "Mind Games" or "Walls and Bridges". John wrote better songs that rocked for Ringo than he did for himself....IMO. It's all opinion. I have mine and you have yours.
Most of what you said I agree with actually, but John wanted to leave the artistic confines of the Beatles, not that he wanted to rock more necessarily, just that he wanted to explore his own thing. And the guy had an ego he had to fulfill, he wanted to be on his own. He didn't write that many blazing rock songs solo, just a few: instant karma, what you got. whatever gets u thru the nite, NYC, All i want is the truth maybe. but i think thats just because he had done so much of that writing and playing with the Beatles, he wrote more just from the heart at that time. and it came out how it came out. the genesis of the idea to do a rock album was inspired by Lennon getting tired of himself basically, he was so far down the 'deep meaningful' path that he just wanted to do an album of old jams he could just have fun with and not have to be John the writer/producer. Cause he could have settled that Come Together lawsuit any which way. He owed them money ad possibly one song which I think he technically tried to say screw you to Levi by releasing that quasi version of Ya Ya on W&B but that's obviously John just being a cavett because he new he already had the lawsuit satisfied w RnR songs. He went above and beyond what he needed to do to comply with that lawsuit, even doing Sweet Little Sixteen. Ridiculous suit in the first place, I'm sure Berry himself would have been flattered by Johns nod. I look at RnR as a masterpiece. That Be My Baby clip/take is awesome and interesting. Since I first heard it I thought it always sounded like a take where they happened to give John the mic to riff, but were really listening and finalizing the arrangement and sound of the track. It's almost like John's singing it to himself and notating different vocal points and points in the song, counting measures and ok'ing things etc. that's totally how it sounds to me, a really early track. it's really interesting. Cause you think about it and listen to it, man John could have killed that had he expanded on the little vocal doodles he did. Wonder why they didn't do that tune? Speaking about Johns song Bless You, that is a beautiful song, done in that sort of cabere lounge style, funnily similar actually to a style attempt Paul himself might make, showing they actually were pretty similar at times. for me Bless You doesn't come off as schmaltzy, it's just a real simple sincere love song. Everybody is going to define schmaltz differently and see schmaltz in different places than others, but to me I hear more in My Love. just how you perceive different styles and artists. But I get Paul wanting to produce a hit. and he did it with the catchier song but you're right, thats a good call on two songs in the same vein.
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All typed on an iPhone (applause!)
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kapoo:
All typed on an iPhone (applause!)
"John just being a Cavett" (cause we can't type d i c k!!!!)
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I love these clips taped for the Old Grey Whistle Test at the Record Plant in NYC. Slippin' and Slidin'
Stand by Me. JL looks cool in these videos. A true rock star. Extra special that he says hi to Julian. -
dcshark:
I love these clips taped for the Old Grey Whistle Test at the Record Plant in NYC. Slippin' and Slidin'
Stand by Me. JL looks cool in these videos. A true rock star. Extra special that he says hi to Julian.Awesome clips DC! those are from the late 1974 sessions when John was back in NYC doing the re-do's of the tracks that just were too far out from the Spector sessions. Although technically those vids were released on the 'Grey Whistle Test' huh? Never knew that. obviously he's dressed up for some sort of filmed promo. those are cool vids. John's got his rock snarl going. imagine if we had vids of the 1973 LA sessions
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Nancy R:
kapoo:
All typed on an iPhone (applause!)
"John just being a Cavett" (cause we can't type d i c k!!!!)
exactly, good catch
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kapoo:
Awesome clips DC! those are from the late 1974 sessions when John was back in NYC doing the re-do's of the tracks that just were too far out from the Spector sessions. Although technically those vids were released on the 'Grey Whistle Test' huh? Never knew that. obviously he's dressed up for some sort of filmed promo. those are cool vids. John's got his rock snarl going. imagine if we had vids of the 1973 LA sessions
Those two tracks were filmed and recorded specifically for "The Old Grey Whistle Test" and are not from the sessions for the album. John sang live to a pre-recorded backing track. Two takes were done for "Stand by me". Take 1 being the one used for the show with a bit of take 2 spliced in at the end (listen carefully for the very subtle editing ) The filming took place in March 1975 at the Record Plant East. (According to Madinger/Easter's book "Eight arms to hold you")
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I never owned Lennon's R&R album though I've heard a few songs as a child from it. Now I'm thinking I should get that remastered album....
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Kathryn O:
I never owned Lennon's R&R album though I've heard a few songs as a child from it. Now I'm thinking I should get that remastered album....
Or maybe go for the now-out-of-print 2004 Yoko remix with bonus tracks.
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It's such a distressing album, you can hear he's having fun in places but he sounds quite lost for most of the time. It's a great document of the time.
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McCartney - Coquette
Vs Lennon - Bring It On Home to Me (here's an unused take) and here's Paul doing Bring It On Home to Me from Choba and here's Lennon's album version from the reocrd I like Lennon's version only slightly more than Paul's Coquette, I like it quite a bit more than Paul's Bring It On Home to Me. I like the additional bite John brings, rather than the smoothenss. on that particular song. I like how John and Phil just let the bass and beat ride over all the breaks, with the piano. that is pure rock sound. Paul does that on Coquette, but not really on his BIOHTM. sort of does.