New Book: Paul McCartney, The Life
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B J Conlee:
SusyLuvsPaul:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Thanks for this R Menendez
_____________________________________________________ Great job R Martinez. I would say that our knowledge on everything "Fabs" is pretty equal to mine. Neither one of us could claim a 75% (ha ha!) Just saw a nice article on the Internet titled "Main Composer of the Beatles Songs" by Per Myrsten From Sweden. She covered all Beatle songs from Please, Please Me (1963) to Let It Be (1970) as well as a list of Beatle songs not released on a LP Here's the totals: Lennon: 72 McCartney: 70 Harrison: 22: Ringo: 2 L & M joint: 18 Pretty darn close wouldn't you say. The Book that JoeySmith had reference said that John came out on top by a fair margin. Well that is not a fair margin if that is what Norman was citing on his research. Again, to me it was Norman's dislike of Paul when he wrote "Shout" In looking at your Lennon list (you did a great job!) I think that most people in general (not Beatle geeks like you and me) would know Paul's songs better by and large. Not always but in general I'm saying. But again, the main point is that we are both saying (and others here) are saying that Paul and John songwriting contributions to the Beatles were 50/50. And that is fair and pretty factual. As I've said, Norman's assertion is just plain ridiculous on any level.
Agreed with last sentence. Also per the book Beatlesongs (by William J. Dowlding Copyright 1989), his count comes out to Lennon 84.55% and McCartney 73.65% (all based on interviews, etc.) which also blows Normans idea about John doing 75%. The only edge the book gives John is more dominance during A Hard Day's Night. Even that author states that John may have been more forthcoming (or less modest?) about his contributions. Again citing this all per the author's work above. Btw great book if anyone can find it now. Thoughts?
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B J Conlee:
SusyLuvsPaul:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Thanks for this R Menendez
_____________________________________________________ Great job R Martinez. I would say that our knowledge on everything "Fabs" is pretty equal to mine. Neither one of us could claim a 75% (ha ha!) Just saw a nice article on the Internet titled "Main Composer of the Beatles Songs" by Per Myrsten From Sweden. She covered all Beatle songs from Please, Please Me (1963) to Let It Be (1970) as well as a list of Beatle songs not released on a LP Here's the totals: Lennon: 72 McCartney: 70 Harrison: 22: Ringo: 2 L & M joint: 18 Pretty darn close wouldn't you say. The Book that JoeySmith had reference said that John came out on top by a fair margin. Well that is not a fair margin if that is what Norman was citing on his research. Again, to me it was Norman's dislike of Paul when he wrote "Shout" In looking at your Lennon list (you did a great job!) I think that most people in general (not Beatle geeks like you and me) would know Paul's songs better by and large. Not always but in general I'm saying. But again, the main point is that we are both saying (and others here) are saying that Paul and John songwriting contributions to the Beatles were 50/50. And that is fair and pretty factual. As I've said, Norman's assertion is just plain ridiculous on any level.
Neither of us could, but we are close! But, who's the cute one???
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RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Good list! I would have paired Revolution with Hey Jude and In My Life with Yesterday though.
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RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
SusyLuvsPaul:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Thanks for this R Menendez
_____________________________________________________ Great job R Martinez. I would say that our knowledge on everything "Fabs" is pretty equal to mine. Neither one of us could claim a 75% (ha ha!) Just saw a nice article on the Internet titled "Main Composer of the Beatles Songs" by Per Myrsten From Sweden. She covered all Beatle songs from Please, Please Me (1963) to Let It Be (1970) as well as a list of Beatle songs not released on a LP Here's the totals: Lennon: 72 McCartney: 70 Harrison: 22: Ringo: 2 L & M joint: 18 Pretty darn close wouldn't you say. The Book that JoeySmith had reference said that John came out on top by a fair margin. Well that is not a fair margin if that is what Norman was citing on his research. Again, to me it was Norman's dislike of Paul when he wrote "Shout" In looking at your Lennon list (you did a great job!) I think that most people in general (not Beatle geeks like you and me) would know Paul's songs better by and large. Not always but in general I'm saying. But again, the main point is that we are both saying (and others here) are saying that Paul and John songwriting contributions to the Beatles were 50/50. And that is fair and pretty factual. As I've said, Norman's assertion is just plain ridiculous on any level.
Neither of us could, but we are close! But, who's the cute one???
BJ! You are the acerbic, sarcastic, intellectual one.
-
Nancy R:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
SusyLuvsPaul:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Thanks for this R Menendez
_____________________________________________________ Great job R Martinez. I would say that our knowledge on everything "Fabs" is pretty equal to mine. Neither one of us could claim a 75% (ha ha!) Just saw a nice article on the Internet titled "Main Composer of the Beatles Songs" by Per Myrsten From Sweden. She covered all Beatle songs from Please, Please Me (1963) to Let It Be (1970) as well as a list of Beatle songs not released on a LP Here's the totals: Lennon: 72 McCartney: 70 Harrison: 22: Ringo: 2 L & M joint: 18 Pretty darn close wouldn't you say. The Book that JoeySmith had reference said that John came out on top by a fair margin. Well that is not a fair margin if that is what Norman was citing on his research. Again, to me it was Norman's dislike of Paul when he wrote "Shout" In looking at your Lennon list (you did a great job!) I think that most people in general (not Beatle geeks like you and me) would know Paul's songs better by and large. Not always but in general I'm saying. But again, the main point is that we are both saying (and others here) are saying that Paul and John songwriting contributions to the Beatles were 50/50. And that is fair and pretty factual. As I've said, Norman's assertion is just plain ridiculous on any level.
Neither of us could, but we are close! But, who's the cute one???
BJ! You are the acerbic, sarcastic, intellectual one.
_______________________________________________________ Nancy, I don't know about....but at 67 now, I am definitely not the cute one.
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Nancy R:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Good list! I would have paired Revolution with Hey Jude and In My Life with Yesterday though.
Cool! It's not easy, they both have so many good ones. I can't believe I forgot Revolution and I Feel Fine!
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edcrawf:
B J Conlee:
SusyLuvsPaul:
RMartinez:
B J Conlee:
JoeySmith:
There is a great book out there that breaks down the number of songs each member wrote & Lennon came out on top by a fair margin. In particular, Lennon dominated the early years, especially A Hard Day's Night. Perhaps that's how he came to the conclusion that Lennon was 75% of the Beatles. I'm just speculating (& I dont agree with the statement).
_________________________________________________________ Joey, I hear what you're saying about one particular book giving the edge to John and the "A Hard day's night album". After what Mr. Norman has now admitted, it seems obvious that it was Norman's animosity and bias toward Paul that was the reason for such an absurd "John was 75% of the Beatles" declaration. There are so many ways you can prove that Norman's statement is ridiculous. Yes, John might have dominated "A Hard Day's Night" but then look at Revolver which is a much higher rated album by almost all critics. Paul absolutely dominated Revolver with such classics as Here There & Everywhere, For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Good Day Sunshine, and Got to Get You Into My Live all on one album. Paul was also the primary writer for Ringo's Yellow Submarine. Even John admitted he liked Paul's songs better. A better way to see that Norman's statement was ludicrous is just looking at Wikipedia's "Songs written by L & M. Take that total list and just look at the songs that were primarily written by Paul (80%) or 100% Paul songs. That list is just amazing and proves that the "75% Lennon" comment is absurd. I'm talking about famous Beatle songs to the average person. Here is my partial list of Paul songs: Hey Jude Let It Be Long and Winding Road Yesterday And I Love Her Here There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby Penny Lane Lady Madonna PS I Love you I'll Follow the Sun Can't Buy Me Love I Saw her Standing there All my Loving Got To Get You Into My Life I Will Back in the USSR Golden Slumbers Blackbird Helter Skelter Hello Goodbye Paperback Writer Get Back For No One Two of Us Fool on the hill She's Leaving Home O Darling Sgt.Peppers (the song) With A Little Help (written for Ringo) Michelle Martha My Dear I've Just Seen a Face I'm Looking Through You Lovely Rita Getting Better Birthday Drive My Car Rocky Raccoon Mother's Nature Son the Night Before She's a Woman Fixing a Hole When I'm 64 Love Me Do She Came into the Bathroom Window Even as amazing as this list is, I'm sure I'm missing a few. And to be fair, I'm not counting the early songs that J & P wrote face to face like "I Want to Hold Your Hand', She Loves You, From Me to You etc. They would not be included on John's list also. I know that John was the primary writer for a lot of songs too (and he was also great) but if this was in a Court of Law, no jury would honestly agree that John was 75% of the Beatles. As I said, the statement is ludicrous. And as I said to Dr. Beatle, if Mr. Norman doesn't take the statement back then I have little respect for him. His other nice comments now are disingenuous if he doesn't take his main assertion back. It is just the way I think about him. Many people who read Shout (and are not educated about Lennon and McCartney) take it as though John was "easily" the greatest Beatle when it comes to the "music". It just is not true and the above list certainly proves it. That is the thing that bothers me most about "Shout". Mr. Norman is just not factual when it comes the music of L & M.
For my money, John and Paul were fairly equal in the Beatles as far as talent and songwriting. For those who love Paul, he will always be better. For those who love John, he will always be better. I took your list and did a song for song John list. They were both pretty good!
Hey Jude - Rain Let It Be - Across The Universe Long and Winding Road - Dig A Pony Yesterday - Ticket To Ride And I Love Her - If I Fell Here There and Everywhere - She Said, She Said Eleanor Rigby - I'm Only Sleeping Penny Lane - Strawberry Fields Forever Lady Madonna - Glass Onion PS I Love you - Misery I'll Follow the Sun - I'll Be Back Can't Buy Me Love - I Should Have Known Better I Saw her Standing there - There's A Place All my Loving - It Won't Be Long Got To Get You Into My Life - And Your Bird Can Sing I Will - Julia Back in the USSR - Happiness Is A Warm Gun Golden Slumbers - Because Blackbird - Dear Prudence Helter Skelter - Yer Blues Hello Goodbye - I Am The Walrus Paperback Writer - A Hard Day's Night Get Back - Don't Let Me Down For No One - Nowhere Man Two of Us - Tell Me Why Fool on the hill - Help! She's Leaving Home - Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite O Darling - I Want You (She's So Heavy) Sgt.Peppers (the song) - All You Need Is Love With A Little Help (written for Ringo) I'm Happy Just To Dance With You (written for George) Michelle - Girl Martha My Dear - Do You Want To Know A Secret (written for George) I've Just Seen a Face - I'm A Loser I'm Looking Through You - I'll Cry Instead Lovely Rita - Sexy Sadie Getting Better - Tell Me Why Birthday - Not A Second Time Drive My Car - Dr. Robert Rocky Raccoon - All I've Got To Do Mother's Nature Son - Yes It Is the Night Before - Hey Bulldog She's a Woman - Day Tripper Fixing a Hole - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds When I'm 64 - Good Morning Love Me Do - Ask Me Why She Came into the Bathroom Window - Come Together
Thanks for this R Menendez
_____________________________________________________ Great job R Martinez. I would say that our knowledge on everything "Fabs" is pretty equal to mine. Neither one of us could claim a 75% (ha ha!) Just saw a nice article on the Internet titled "Main Composer of the Beatles Songs" by Per Myrsten From Sweden. She covered all Beatle songs from Please, Please Me (1963) to Let It Be (1970) as well as a list of Beatle songs not released on a LP Here's the totals: Lennon: 72 McCartney: 70 Harrison: 22: Ringo: 2 L & M joint: 18 Pretty darn close wouldn't you say. The Book that JoeySmith had reference said that John came out on top by a fair margin. Well that is not a fair margin if that is what Norman was citing on his research. Again, to me it was Norman's dislike of Paul when he wrote "Shout" In looking at your Lennon list (you did a great job!) I think that most people in general (not Beatle geeks like you and me) would know Paul's songs better by and large. Not always but in general I'm saying. But again, the main point is that we are both saying (and others here) are saying that Paul and John songwriting contributions to the Beatles were 50/50. And that is fair and pretty factual. As I've said, Norman's assertion is just plain ridiculous on any level.
Agreed with last sentence. Also per the book Beatlesongs (by William J. Dowlding Copyright 1989), his count comes out to Lennon 84.55% and McCartney 73.65% (all based on interviews, etc.) which also blows Normans idea about John doing 75%. The only edge the book gives John is more dominance during A Hard Day's Night. Even that author states that John may have been more forthcoming (or less modest?) about his contributions. Again citing this all per the author's work above. Btw great book if anyone can find it now. Thoughts?
The book is a fascinating read. So is Revolution In The Head by Ian McDonald.
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Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
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JoeySmith:
Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
I saw those. Some of them sound like the reviewer hasn't bothered to read the book, though. The critical reviews I've seen of the book have been more favorable. I have the book, planning to start it this week. I guess I'll just decide for myself.
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JoeySmith:
Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
I must admit as a Wings fan I jumped right into the middle of the book at page 440 and quite quickly started to see mistakes like Wildlife being recorded on Paul's farm in Scotland, or that Denny Laine married his girlfriend Jo Jo in 1973 (the event actually took place in in 197
. The Wings section comes across as very skecthy although to be fair the 10 years from 1971 to 1980 accounts for 120 pages out of 853. Unfortunately there's very little in the way of new information and based on what I've read so far, this book is very much aimed at those fans who haven't read any books previously written about Paul. I certainly wouldn't call the book lousy but its certainly not a 'must have' for the book shelf.
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Kestrel:
JoeySmith:
Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
I must admit as a Wings fan I jumped right into the middle of the book at page 440 and quite quickly started to see mistakes like Wildlife being recorded on Paul's farm in Scotland, or that Denny Laine married his girlfriend Jo Jo in 1973 (the event actually took place in in 197
. The Wings section comes across as very skecthy although to be fair the 10 years from 1971 to 1980 accounts for 120 pages out of 853. Unfortunately there's very little in the way of new information and based on what I've read so far, this book is very much aimed at those fans who haven't read any books previously written about Paul. I certainly wouldn't call the book lousy but its certainly not a 'must have' for the book shelf.
That's really disappointing to read. Beginning to feel glad I had a book credit available when I bought this book. But, I have Man on the Run here (almost finished with it) and it does a pretty good job with the Wings years. So at least there are good books out there, even with the occasional error. Sounds like this Norman book has more than the occasional error, though. Too bad--wasted an opportunity to do a good bio.
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DeniseLM227:
JoeySmith:
Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
I saw those. Some of them sound like the reviewer hasn't bothered to read the book, though. The critical reviews I've seen of the book have been more favorable. I have the book, planning to start it this week. I guess I'll just decide for myself.
That's what everyone should do. I'm active on a few other forums where people had such a bad bias against Shout (which I don't blame them) that they can't get past it to read this new book and draw their own conclusions. I hated Shout as well, but found Norman's Jagger, Lennon, and this bio quite good overall. I couldn't care less who likes it or hates it, but as someone who reads and reviews tons of books in what has become a semi-pro freelancing side gig, it irritates me when people form biases based on other people's opinions such that they don't see for themselves.
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DeniseLM227:
But, I have Man on the Run here (almost finished with it) and it does a pretty good job with the Wings years. So at least there are good books out there, even with the occasional error. Sounds like this Norman book has more than the occasional error, though. Too bad--wasted an opportunity to do a good bio.
Man On The Run certainly covers the 1970's in far more detail than Philip Norman's book does.
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DeniseLM227:
JoeySmith:
Paul's new book getting pretty lousy reviews, according to Amazon.
I saw those. Some of them sound like the reviewer hasn't bothered to read the book, though. The critical reviews I've seen of the book have been more favorable. I have the book, planning to start it this week. I guess I'll just decide for myself.
Now days you get the feeling that many reviewers don't bother to read, listen or watch something before reviewing it.
Case in point, after Paul's wonderful Ocean Kingdom was performed in NYC, the next morning, a London newspaper had review after review of the performance. So I went on to ask how the reviewers were giving a review, on a ballet performed in New York, when they were obviously in the UK. Had they all flown back to the UK after the performance on the red eye?! Needless to say, there were not any responses. It's a pity that so many people seem to enjoy being so mean to others, anonymously. It's bullying really. Planning on getting the book too!
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I read the entire Wings years section in the book shop (you think I was going to buy the thing?) and the only info I learned out of all that, was that 'Proud Mum' was used in a commercial for Mothers Pride bread. Can anyone confirm this to be true?
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ewanme:
I read the entire Wings years section in the book shop (you think I was going to buy the thing?) and the only info I learned out of all that, was that 'Proud Mum' was used in a commercial for Mothers Pride bread. Can anyone confirm this to be true?
Correct...I think!
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Norman's Shout! came out in the wake of Lennon's death and it was more fashionable then to diss Macca. Also, Macca seemed like a nice family guy, was more current having been in Wings while Lennon had gone AWOL for five years, so it was more of a news story to expose Macca as not as nice as he seemed, it's a common tabloid thing where it's a big deal to reveal that a celeb is not as they depict themselves in the airbrushed version. Amazingly, I think Shout! was the first really decent Beatles bio, the ones up until then being cut and paste jobs. It's almost as if until then a pop band, no matter how mega, just didn't warrant a serious retrospective, almost in the same way they didn't warrant an art exhibition either. So it must have been galling for Macca to find that the first to come along paints him so badly. It wasn't just that Norman took sides, rather that it was so relentless, to the point that you thought, well, okay, just why did Lennon hang out with him for over a decade if they had sweet FA in common? I think that doing the Lennon bio maybe put him off a bit and redressed the balance. I think he found out his idol had clay feet really, or to some extent.
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moptops:
ewanme:
I read the entire Wings years section in the book shop (you think I was going to buy the thing?) and the only info I learned out of all that, was that 'Proud Mum' was used in a commercial for Mothers Pride bread. Can anyone confirm this to be true?
Correct...I think!
I tried to find it on youtube but it didn't come up.
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This book has over 800 pages, would be a good long pretty absorbing read--will ask the library to get this--but I always recall that Macca pronounced most books about him " Rubbish." He seldom really approves or enjoys any about him. Doubtless he harbored reservations about this one too but went ahead and said Okay he'd be okay with it, but I doubt he was jumping for joy. He is rather a private person when it comes to his personal life.
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oobu24:
moptops:
ewanme:
I read the entire Wings years section in the book shop (you think I was going to buy the thing?) and the only info I learned out of all that, was that 'Proud Mum' was used in a commercial for Mothers Pride bread. Can anyone confirm this to be true?
Correct...I think!
I tried to find it on youtube but it didn't come up.
Yeah, me too