The ..2012.... Political thread
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[quote="Bill"][quote="CMOONRWE2"] I have never pulled a republican lever behind the curtain [like the wizard of Oz!!] but if Obama is indeed the Demo choice, I will have to vote to prevent the above from occuring. And 4 more years of McBush is pretty scary too, but at least its the 'devil you know' So what you're saying is that you'd sooner vote for the continuation of a failed policy just because you're used to it than have the courage to change course. I find that rather intriguing. Still, you get the government you deserve. What I am saying is that I see the likelyhood of a negative impact, long term, a great deal more from Obama - due to several situations. If he is elected, and is truly as incompetent as many see him - nothing but talk and charisma - we continue to decline. (Allen??) In my business life I have seen many imcompetent blacks promoted and the entire organization declines, and the competent choose to leave the ship. And there is still a lot of 'white resistance' to having a black leader, within the govt and the general population - so he will not be able to get internal support to cause any of these grand ideas to come to pass. Even if he does get enough support within the system, most of the (few) specific plans I have heard about will NOT be able to be a financial reality without much increase in taxes or changes in services, and would result in further separation of the economic classes --- a few rich and many many poor. The radical factions in this country might indeed try/pull something extreem (think JFK) and if it is a white person that does it, and with the level of violence, weapons and desperation in the country now - the riots and problems that would follow would make the insanity of the 60's look like an acid rave! But also a lot of religious nuts - pardon the oxymoron - see O'bi as the Anti-Chump, as their Holy Scribbles describe this human almost to perfection. And a lot of the fundaMENTAList are indeed black - and see him as the Anti-C as well, so if it is a black that 'pulls the JFK' the conspiracy theories will make Roswell a fairy tale. ....whereas McBush is only a nutty old man, who will probably croak in the first few weeks of office, and we get a president named Mitt, that nobody elected, just like the last two! roll
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CMOONRWE2:
Bill:
CMOONRWE2:
I have never pulled a republican lever behind the curtain [like the wizard of Oz!!] but if Obama is indeed the Demo choice, I will have to vote to prevent the above from occuring. And 4 more years of McBush is pretty scary too, but at least its the 'devil you know'
So what you're saying is that you'd sooner vote for the continuation of a failed policy just because you're used to it than have the courage to change course. I find that rather intriguing. Still, you get the government you deserve.
What I am saying is that I see the likelyhood of a negative impact, long term, a great deal more from Obama - due to several situations. If he is elected, and is truly as incompetent as many see him - nothing but talk and charisma - we continue to decline. (Allen??) In my business life I have seen many imcompetent blacks promoted and the entire organization declines, and the competent choose to leave the ship. And there is still a lot of 'white resistance' to having a black leader, within the govt and the general population - so he will not be able to get internal support to cause any of these grand ideas to come to pass. Even if he does get enough support within the system, most of the (few) specific plans I have heard about will NOT be able to be a financial reality without much increase in taxes or changes in services, and would result in further separation of the economic classes --- a few rich and many many poor. The radical factions in this country might indeed try/pull something extreem (think JFK) and if it is a white person that does it, and with the level of violence, weapons and desperation in the country now - the riots and problems that would follow would make the insanity of the 60's look like an acid rave! But also a lot of religious nuts - pardon the oxymoron - see O'bi as the Anti-Chump, as their Holy Scribbles describe this human almost to perfection. And a lot of the fundaMENTAList are indeed black - and see him as the Anti-C as well, so if it is a black that 'pulls the JFK' the conspiracy theories will make Roswell a fairy tale. ....whereas McBush is only a nutty old man, who will probably croak in the first few weeks of office, and we get a president named Mitt, that nobody elected, just like the last two! :
sounds like you might need to read some good books , spend some time with educated people in other words, open your mind to knowledge, expand your horizons. Good Luck
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The_Fool:
Not to pick on one guy -- McCain wants to be a "nice guy" willing to reach over the aisle and be good friends with the democrats. Not say anything bad about Obama. So what does Obama do in a recent speech? Pick apart all the things McCain stands for or wants to push forward. (Nothing wrong with that on Obama's part). If McCain wants it -- he is going to have to start going against the things Obama has voted on - or what Obama wants to accomplish by way of the Democrat party. And McCain seems to want to throw the Republicans under the bus - while showing he is a good friend to the Democrats. (Perhaps his advisors will help him - or he will get pounded down -- like two fighters going at it and one says he will not throw a punch -- the odds are the one throwing the punches is going to knock the other down.) *by punches -- I mean speaking out against your opponent's voting record, plans, ideas, etc....
Absolutely Fool I said awhile ago that Obama needed to throw punches. And that applies to any presidential candidate. I don't think Obama has enough vis a vis voting record for McCain to go at him to make enough of a difference.
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Andy_Shofar:
SurSteven:
politically speaking.......if we had left iraq directly after we captured sadaam and immediately focused all of our energy on finding osama...where would we be right now? when it comes to religion, sociology physics n politics.......armchair quarterbacks r a penny a pond!
Yes, my friend - I was once in the military And today might be an armchair thinker But once upon a time I was personally involved in world peacekeeping in a small but direct way ...
It's never a small way, my friend btw, it's not about religion, but a whole way of life.
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Bill:
In fact, the finances of the campaigns tells us a lot about how they would perform as president. Clinton maxed out her donors and is $20mil in debt. McCain was in deep trouble for a while and is possibly surviving on being the only Republican left to donate to. Both Clinton and McCain have made themselves beholden to special interest groups. By contrast, Obama is well cashed up mainly on the back on small donations from people who actually believe in him rather than special interests who want a comfortable working relationship with the government. Now if the way the candidates manage the economy of their campaigns is any indication of how they would manage the national economy (and there is no reason to believe that it isn't), then the choice is pretty clear.
It's one thing to manage a campaign's finances, it's quite another to manage a $13 trillion economy. There's no comparison.
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ElvisBondCelebrityCosmos:
At this precise moment i am writing this post,Senator Barack Obama is the Favorite to win the General Election and to win the Presidency.Obama already leads the Polls in crucial States like New York,Michigan,North Carolina,California,etc...For the past few weeks/events/speeches Senator John McCain has been/looks very tired.When i met Senator McCain a few weeks ago he was looking much better.McCain needs help,even because NOT all of the Republican Party is supporting him 100%.Meaning of this :-Senator McCain needs urgently a strong running mate,somebody like Mitt Romney,for example.
Obama 49% versus McCain 46%. I suppose no one sees that this is a statistical dead heat? Both are extremely weak and neither commands a mandate. Many here have already voiced that they don't care for either candidate. The polls are reflecting this. Anyone notice that Florida is in play AGAIN I am astounded with the stock market tanking 394 points yesterday, 49,000 jobs lost pushing the unemployment up .5% month to month and Israel's defense minister indicating that they will not tolerate Iran having nuclear programs, Obama is M.I.A. McCain at least managed a weak comment.
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[quote="mustangsally10"] sounds like you might need to read some good books , spend some time with educated people in other words, open your mind to knowledge, expand your horizons. Good Luck Any suggestions for 'good' books? (other than religious propaganda) Let's see (moon) ....I have three degrees, Secondary Education, Sociology, Human Resources Management - retired after 3 decades of work with 2 Fortune 500 companies, where I routinely saw reverse discrimination and incompetence destroy both. I was literally out in the streets demonstrating for equal 'opportunities' in the late 60's, even met MLK and worked directly with one of his coordinators for 11 years on and off. Since, I have volunteered hundreds and hundreds of hours for mostly inner city development programs, and most recently (last 2 decades) with animal rescue groups, having pretty much given up on the human element. I became so disgusted with the blown 'opportunities' that I saw happen, such as the football player that thinks dogfighting is a sport, and incompetent minorities being promoted and competent employees leaving what were good companies because of that. I choose to put my resources where there was a return - the needy dogs and cats. My wife and I choose long ago to have no children - so we worry about very little, two houses paid for, one on the island - and we will both be gone before the war, the current war, is paid for, anyway. But it worries me to see the 'ideals' being touted without a realistic plan to implement these changes. Even though I strongly disagree with both candidates on many points, I see the potential Ob'i term and his impact a disaster, and McBush only slow deterioration! When I first went of to 'real school' in the late 60's my dad gave me one piece of advice as the first member of my family to go to college. He said 'You are gonna see some things that I never got to see, and have some experiences I never will have. Keep in mind, making decisions based upon perception is prejudice; making decisions based on experience is wisdom" If you would have told me back in my naive idealistic youth I would feel this betrayed by the 'movement' that I so strongly supported, I would not believe it at all. But based upon my experiences this long lifetime, I cannot vote any other way. Those that will be around to dig out of the mess have my sympathy......""you get the gov't you deserve'"" I believe was the quote. And I think Horizons is a very nice Genesis tune, and works well as an intro to Supper's Ready, esp. on the vinyl version. So expanding that short masterpiece would be unnecessary!
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I have said before that the sex or race of the candidate should not matter and does not matter to me. The following is not in response to anybody's particular post but is just an observation. For those who say they will not vote for a black man for President they are forgetting that Sen. Obama has a white mother and is 1/2 white and 1/2 black. I hope that puts the race issue to rest for those dwelling on it. The only thing that should matter is the direction in which the next President will take this country, not sex or race. Sen. Clinton gave her total support to Sen. Obama and asked her supporters to do the same. As a supporter of Sen. Clinton that's what I plan to do. I will not vote for McCain and his policy of continuing this ridiculous war and his pledge to make G. W. Bush's tax cuts that favor wealthy Americans permanent. The Democrats must take back The White House for the good of the country. Supporters of Sen. Clinton who pledge to do a 360 and vote for McCain as a protest of her not being the nominee are falling victim to an emotional, knee-jerk reaction that will keep the country on the same disasterous course that we are now on. I say to any of Sen. Clinton's supporters who are now on the fence to stop and think and vote with your head, not your heart. Getting revenge on the Democratic Party by voting for McCain does not take the country in the direction that Sen. Clinton advocated.
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jaipur:
It's one thing to manage a campaign's finances, it's quite another to manage a $13 trillion economy. There's no comparison.
Okay then, follow that logic through. If you can't successfully manage your campaign finances, what possible hope do you have of managing the national economy? It's a big jump from one to the other, but it's still a fair indicator.
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Bill:
jaipur:
It's one thing to manage a campaign's finances, it's quite another to manage a $13 trillion economy. There's no comparison.
Okay then, follow that logic through. If you can't successfully manage your campaign finances, what possible hope do you have of managing the national economy? It's a big jump from one to the other, but it's still a fair indicator.
and financially speaking.......the clintons did better in fewer years..than the bushs did in one and a half times the years!
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Andy_Shofar:
I blame Jimmy Carter for supporting putting down the peaceful Iranian Shaw(sp) government in favor of the more radical who took Americans prisioner for over 1 year in the late 70's or very early 80's. But when Ronald Reagan was elected President - these radicals got weakened knees & released the American captives. btw - the majority of those imprisoned declare that Achmadinagad(sp) was one of the tormentors / prison guards. Jimmy Carter's approved government of choice
I can understand believing propaganda during a crisis or election, but why stay with it long after all but the most ardent propagandists have accepted the reality? The "peaceful" Shah was a brutal dictator who ruled with torture, murder and terror. If you want to blame an American president for Iran's distrust of the United States, begin with Eisenhower and add every president since then. The American and British coup against Dr. Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister, and the military and financial support for murderous dictators like Pahlavi and Iraq's Hussein made the revolution inevitable. Ahmadinejad was not involved in the American hostage situation in 1979. Even the American CIA says he was not.
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Bill:
jaipur:
It's one thing to manage a campaign's finances, it's quite another to manage a $13 trillion economy. There's no comparison.
Okay then, follow that logic through. If you can't successfully manage your campaign finances, what possible hope do you have of managing the national economy? It's a big jump from one to the other, but it's still a fair indicator.
Not really.....the president doesn't manage the economy
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SurSteven:
Bill:
jaipur:
It's one thing to manage a campaign's finances, it's quite another to manage a $13 trillion economy. There's no comparison.
Okay then, follow that logic through. If you can't successfully manage your campaign finances, what possible hope do you have of managing the national economy? It's a big jump from one to the other, but it's still a fair indicator.
and financially speaking.......the clintons did better in fewer years..than the bushs did in one and a half times the years!
I don't think so Clinton was a two term president as is W....are you including 41 too?
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al Sabah:
Andy_Shofar:
I blame Jimmy Carter for supporting putting down the peaceful Iranian Shaw(sp) government in favor of the more radical who took Americans prisioner for over 1 year in the late 70's or very early 80's. But when Ronald Reagan was elected President - these radicals got weakened knees & released the American captives. btw - the majority of those imprisoned declare that Achmadinagad(sp) was one of the tormentors / prison guards. Jimmy Carter's approved government of choice
I can understand believing propaganda during a crisis or election, but why stay with it long after all but the most ardent propagandists have accepted the reality? The "peaceful" Shah was a brutal dictator who ruled with torture, murder and terror. If you want to blame an American president for Iran's distrust of the United States, begin with Eisenhower and add every president since then. The American and British coup against Dr. Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister, and the military and financial support for murderous dictators like Pahlavi and Iraq's Hussein made the revolution inevitable. Ahmadinejad was not involved in the American hostage situation in 1979. Even the American CIA says he was not.
I agree with you to some extent. However, it's very difficult to discount the cold war in that as well.
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jaipur:
al Sabah:
Andy_Shofar:
I blame Jimmy Carter for supporting putting down the peaceful Iranian Shaw(sp) government in favor of the more radical who took Americans prisioner for over 1 year in the late 70's or very early 80's. But when Ronald Reagan was elected President - these radicals got weakened knees & released the American captives. btw - the majority of those imprisoned declare that Achmadinagad(sp) was one of the tormentors / prison guards. Jimmy Carter's approved government of choice
I can understand believing propaganda during a crisis or election, but why stay with it long after all but the most ardent propagandists have accepted the reality? The "peaceful" Shah was a brutal dictator who ruled with torture, murder and terror. If you want to blame an American president for Iran's distrust of the United States, begin with Eisenhower and add every president since then. The American and British coup against Dr. Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister, and the military and financial support for murderous dictators like Pahlavi and Iraq's Hussein made the revolution inevitable. Ahmadinejad was not involved in the American hostage situation in 1979. Even the American CIA says he was not.
I agree with you to some extent. However, it's very difficult to discount the cold war in that as well.
I'm also willing to agree to some of your thoughts. As for the CIA they have not always been a reliable souce of information. They are a government branch, and government offices in the end will not write history. I, however, accept the word of some of those Americans imprisoned and/or tortured in Iran over the CIA's word. As with Iran - if an American president was responsible for Iran's distrust of American - the distrust from the American side may well be rooted to events that occured during WWII.
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Its well known american government has meddled in the politics of other country. Many Americas feel 911 was a result of something like this where government did something that was directly responsible for the attacks. I guessing our military bases parked in Saudi Arabia was it. However if the Shah was a murder why didn't he murder Khomeini instead of exiling him to France only to have him come back and over throw his government, which happened when Carter tried to get them to lower the prices of oil and wouldn't. Some think Carter was behind the Shah being over thrown. I think bottom line is, its a area where there's been wars longer than there's been peace and we should not get involved. Selling weapons to them is like giving china to the children. Now they can do massive damage and spread their insatiable hatred everywhere.
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jaipur:
ElvisBondCelebrityCosmos:
At this precise moment i am writing this post,Senator Barack Obama is the Favorite to win the General Election and to win the Presidency.Obama already leads the Polls in crucial States like New York,Michigan,North Carolina,California,etc...For the past few weeks/events/speeches Senator John McCain has been/looks very tired.When i met Senator McCain a few weeks ago he was looking much better.McCain needs help,even because NOT all of the Republican Party is supporting him 100%.Meaning of this :-Senator McCain needs urgently a strong running mate,somebody like Mitt Romney,for example.
Obama 49% versus McCain 46%.
Exactly.CNN National Poll.
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It was the Saudis that asked the US. And it is well known that was something that al qaeda head did not want.
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I am for Peace by Peace and some sort of conscientious structure to this economically imbalanced excessive capitalist right wing phase that we are in that is making a lot of people exceedingly rich and by virtue of the bell curve too many others exceedingly poor!
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ElvisBondCelebrityCosmos:
jaipur:
ElvisBondCelebrityCosmos:
At this precise moment i am writing this post,Senator Barack Obama is the Favorite to win the General Election and to win the Presidency.Obama already leads the Polls in crucial States like New York,Michigan,North Carolina,California,etc...For the past few weeks/events/speeches Senator John McCain has been/looks very tired.When i met Senator McCain a few weeks ago he was looking much better.McCain needs help,even because NOT all of the Republican Party is supporting him 100%.Meaning of this :-Senator McCain needs urgently a strong running mate,somebody like Mitt Romney,for example.
Obama 49% versus McCain 46%.
Exactly.CNN National Poll.
Oh sorry.....I didn't realize that this is supposed to be a WOW btw, NY & California aren't crucial.....