The ..2012.... Political thread
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Since Hillary dropped out, I may go Republican & vote for McCain.
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For the past forty years I have voted for either a Democrat or a Republican based on which candidate I thought would make the best President. Voting along party lines has never been for me. From this 2008 election on I plan to vote Libertarian. It is the only way I can effectively let the Democrats and Republicans know that this educated and concerned citizen of the United States has had it with the two party system. Until we have a viable third party in this country I refuse to vote for either a Democrat or a Republican candidate. "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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GYPSYGIRL:
Since Hillary dropped out, I may go Republican & vote for McCain.
I fail to understand this position. Clinton and McCain are on completely different sides on so many major issues, it doesn't make any sense IMO. I can understand liking Clinton and not Obama (or vice versa) but I don't see how one can go from either Clinton or Obama to McCain. Similarly, Romney or Huckabee supporters aren't lining up behind Obama because they aren't happy with McCain, I don't see how one can support two people who have such different political and philosophical beliefs. Don't the issues matter at all?
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Leave her alone This thread is about the candidates We should be speaking about them Not one another Since you have chosen a board name with the word "peace" in it, I think it is entirely expected that you be peaceable with others & not attacking them. We all need to be peaceable with others. Besides, John McCain historically has been the Democrats favorite Republican since he has a long history of voting along with the Democrats.
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peacetrain:
GYPSYGIRL:
Since Hillary dropped out, I may go Republican & vote for McCain.
I fail to understand this position. Clinton and McCain are on completely different sides on so many major issues, it doesn't make any sense IMO. I can understand liking Clinton and not Obama (or vice versa) but I don't see how one can go from either Clinton or Obama to McCain. Similarly, Romney or Huckabee supporters aren't lining up behind Obama because they aren't happy with McCain, I don't see how one can support two people who have such different political and philosophical beliefs. Don't the issues matter at all?
I can't speak for anyone other than myself and I know this post was not directed at me but I feel compelled to respond. I prefer dialog to monologue. A few months back I became rather emotional about the Clinton/Obama debacle. Clearly they share a similar vision, they embrace similar positions on most of the major issues, they are both qualified and competent. Hillary is not a "saint" but Obama is not a "rock star." I don't trust either one of them. However when Hillary suspended her campaign, I was crestfallen. As I woman, it pained me to see her "give up." I imagine it is because I am a 59 year old white woman and I thought she would best serve my personal interests. I was so angry I posted on another website that I would not vote for Obama if he did not pick Hillary as his running mate. I wanted some validation not for Hillary Clinton but for the millions of people who voted for her in the primaries. I also started to look at McCain more closely in the event that Obama did not pick Hillary. I have always had the highest respect for John McCain. He's not perfect but he is a decorated war hero and we are at war. I agree with him on certain issues, particularly less interference by our federal government and more privatization. He is not a carbon copy of GWB. He is his own man. I like that he is older, that can equate to more wisdom and also problematically more rigidity. Then I realized I can not vote based on my emotions about political parties or my fears about more government interference in my life. In the final analysis, I will vote for neither candidate from the Democratic Party or Republican Party. I do not trust any of them to clean my house let alone run my country. The two party system is systemic of the biggest problem our country faces, the absence of a viable third party. So I will vote for the candidate of the Libertarian Party. As far as the issues, I agree many of the positions that the Libertarian Party platform stands for, so why not vote accordingly. Just my thoughts.
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I focus on the issues like a laser beam and do not let my self be distracted. I would never give my vote away by voting for someone who does not have a chance to win. McCain does not seem to know where he stands on many issues
On issues such as the economy, foreign policy (Iraq etc.), health care, the environment and constitutional protections I think it's no contest. Obama for me. Peace -
mustangsally10:
I focus on the issues like a laser beam and do not let my self be distracted. I would never give my vote away by voting for someone who does not have a chance to win. McCain does not seem to know where he stands on many issues
On issues such as the economy, foreign policy (Iraq etc.), health care, the environment and constitutional protections I think it's no contest. Obama for me. Peaceforgot to mention one of the most important issues: education Here is an article today from the NYT by a columnist I do not like but today he gets it on education. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/opinion/29brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
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Hey People! I didn't intend to stir up a heated discussion here. And let's all keep in mind that the election isn't until November. Any one of us, myself included, could very well change their minds at election time & go with a candidate other than who we are considering now. I was pleased to see Hillary run, as she had some good insight on a variety of issues. Also, we are long overdue for a woman in office. Since she dropped out, it has been difficult making a decision on who would be a good candidate for the job. The real problem is, that 98% of the time, no matter who finally ends up in office, there are a lot of unfulfilled promises & issues that are swept under the carpet & ignored.
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peacetrain:
GYPSYGIRL:
Since Hillary dropped out, I may go Republican & vote for McCain.
I fail to understand this position. Clinton and McCain are on completely different sides on so many major issues, it doesn't make any sense IMO. I can understand liking Clinton and not Obama (or vice versa) but I don't see how one can go from either Clinton or Obama to McCain. Similarly, Romney or Huckabee supporters aren't lining up behind Obama because they aren't happy with McCain, I don't see how one can support two people who have such different political and philosophical beliefs. Don't the issues matter at all?
From what I've heard, Hillary is appalled by the idea that some of her supporters will vote for John McCain. Aside from the fact that she doesn't want to be blamed if the Democrats lose the White House (which would hurt her standing in the party), it doesn't say much for the issues that are important to her if those who supported her turn away from the candidate who will better serve them. Everyone is free to vote for whomever they wish, but I hope they vote for the person they think will be the best president, and not to punish Obama and the Democrats for Hillary's losing the nomination.
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Kahlessa:
peacetrain:
GYPSYGIRL:
Since Hillary dropped out, I may go Republican & vote for McCain.
I fail to understand this position. Clinton and McCain are on completely different sides on so many major issues, it doesn't make any sense IMO. I can understand liking Clinton and not Obama (or vice versa) but I don't see how one can go from either Clinton or Obama to McCain. Similarly, Romney or Huckabee supporters aren't lining up behind Obama because they aren't happy with McCain, I don't see how one can support two people who have such different political and philosophical beliefs. Don't the issues matter at all?
From what I've heard, Hillary is appalled by the idea that some of her supporters will vote for John McCain. Aside from the fact that she doesn't want to be blamed if the Democrats lose the White House (which would hurt her standing in the party), it doesn't say much for the issues that are important to her if those who supported her turn away from the candidate who will better serve them. Everyone is free to vote for whomever they wish, but I hope they vote for the person they think will be the best president, and not to punish Obama and the Democrats for Hillary's losing the nomination.
Hillary won't be suffer any if Obama doesn't win, it will just set her up to be the nominee in 2012. Then she will be the first woman President.
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Candidates have a 50-50 shot.....in other words, they each have a chance to "win". The reality is also that one won't. As far as things getting swept under the carpet, of course that happens..... I wish things were simplistic but they ain't. My favorite these days are the loud complaints about "taxpayers bailouts".... ....if the federal government had in the past 8 years run surpluses, then that would make sense to me. However, as we all know they haven't....more than likely China, Japan, South Korea, et al......are "bailing" people out, not the taxpayers. Guess I'm being too logical again
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GYPSYGIRL:
The real problem is, that 98% of the time, no matter who finally ends up in office, there are a lot of unfulfilled promises & issues that are swept under the carpet & ignored.
Very true! I wonder if it's because the candidate says and does what is necessary to get elected, knowing he or she won't follow up. Or is it because once you become President, you find it's much more difficult keeping the promises you made. It's easy to sit at home and think what you would do if you were President. But things are almost always more difficult to accomplish than you thought at first. I think it's probably a combination of both things. The thing is, voters tend not to reward candidates who are honest about what they can actually hope to accomplish. I think we all want to believe in big sweeping change sometimes.
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For many people, Obama just doesn't have enough experience. It seems like he just appeared out of nowhere. I'm not really big on politics but before the campaigning started, I never heard of him before. In fact, all the mudslinging by all the poiticians, no matter whether or not they're running for office or are already in office is just plain dumb.
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Just a curious question here: Has anybody heard Obama say anything good about the people who have achieved and made things good in America? Saying this is a possibility for many of you out there? And things along these lines? Every speech I hear of his beyond the "change" and "hope" speech - seem to highlight failures and shortcomings - the inability for people to take care of themselves -- and the country -- always in the wrong So sad.... I wonder if he will Top Jimmy Carter's Misery Index -- I "hope" not.
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Point very well made from "The Fool". I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to hear or read any quotes made by Obama beyond what people are not doing & constantly talking about failure to do this or that.
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In many of Obamas speeches he always mentions that his story/life could not have happened any place other than the US. What he is saying is about the most POSITIVE thing one could say about a country. He is a black man who came from a single parent home with no money. Yet he was able to go to the finest schools and accomplish much. Of course, he is brilliant so was able to take advantage of opportunities. He almost alway says that the American dream that he was able to take advantage of, is getting out of reach for most. This is a reality. It is a reality that we are on dangerous ground with our economy. It is a reality that our health care system is broken. It is a reality that we have to change our primary sources of energy as soon as we possibly can. Oil is not infinite, we need to be energy independent and this will help our economy. Facing reality is not negative, it is essential. I feel very hopeful and positive that in Obama we have someone who has the leadership skills and judgement and intelligence to make the necessary changes. I like this quote by Aldous Huxley: "Experience is not what happens to you, it is what you do with what happens to you" Peace
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The_Fool:
Just a curious question here: Has anybody heard Obama say anything good about the people who have achieved and made things good in America? Saying this is a possibility for many of you out there? And things along these lines? Every speech I hear of his beyond the "change" and "hope" speech - seem to highlight failures and shortcomings - the inability for people to take care of themselves -- and the country -- always in the wrong So sad.... I wonder if he will Top Jimmy Carter's Misery Index -- I "hope" not.
Bingo!
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Point, Match & Score!
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Talk about negative the NYT editional calling McCain THe Low Road Express http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/opinion/30wed1.html?em&ex=1217649600&en=fede80205b560d40&ei=5087%0A
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mustangsally10:
In many of Obamas speeches he always mentions that his story/life could not have happened any place other than the US. What he is saying is about the most POSITIVE thing one could say about a country. He is a black man who came from a single parent home with no money. Yet he was able to go to the finest schools and accomplish much. Of course, he is brilliant so was able to take advantage of opportunities. He almost alway says that the American dream that he was able to take advantage of, is getting out of reach for most. This is a reality. It is a reality that we are on dangerous ground with our economy. It is a reality that our health care system is broken. It is a reality that we have to change our primary sources of energy as soon as we possibly can. Oil is not infinite, we need to be energy independent and this will help our economy. Facing reality is not negative, it is essential. I feel very hopeful and positive that in Obama we have someone who has the leadership skills and judgement and intelligence to make the necessary changes. I like this quote by Aldous Huxley: "Experience is not what happens to you, it is what you do with what happens to you" Peace
If he had two black parents, it would be a different story. come to Washington DC and see what a black single mother goes through. He had the advantage of white America, his story/life could not have happened anywhere as he states, certainly not in black America.