The ..2012.... Political thread
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Mikemc:
appletart2:
Mike I hope you get this because is scares me to think you don't. Its like where the deprogramer when you need them. Mccain answer 5000 tax credit. Ya that going to go for health care sure. Most American will use it to pay off bills and the insurance industry will raise the price of insurances and pay out less. Get a clue!
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate? btw, I'm no fan of McCain. He wasn't my first choice, but he made up for it by bringing Palin on the ticket. She is the one Democrats fear the most. She's managed to raise a family while working full time in politics. She balances and $11 billion state budget and has an approval rate among Alaskans of over 80%. And simple minded leftist journalists criticized her for being in politics while she has a family to raise. Obama is running an openly corrupt campaign and the media know all about it but the only one reporting his corruption is Fox News. On his website the software to match up the name and address of the donor to the name and address on file for the credit card holder has been disabled. You donate online to McCain's campaign listing the donor as Me Are Horney 6969 Roundabout Rd Intercourse Pa. 90210, the card will bounce and the donation will not accept. But there is no such problem on Obama's website. That's how fraudulent donations under $200 get done. Input the same credit card# 500 times with different donor names. Do it with many different supporters and that explains how you get $150 million dollars in a single month. Obama has found a way to get around campaign finance laws because he doesn't have to keep a record of donations under $200. Obama refuses to open his books, because he's also getting illegal overseas money, probably from al Qaeda sympathetic groups. McCain offered to open his book to the FEC. The idea that anyone would get $150 million in month from small donors is as absurd as someone running the New York Marathon in less than 1 hour.
keep it up Mike another vote for Obama
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appletart2:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
Mike I hope you get this because is scares me to think you don't. Its like where the deprogramer when you need them. Mccain answer 5000 tax credit. Ya that going to go for health care sure. Most American will use it to pay off bills and the insurance industry will raise the price of insurances and pay out less. Get a clue!
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate? btw, I'm no fan of McCain. He wasn't my first choice, but he made up for it by bringing Palin on the ticket. She is the one Democrats fear the most. She's managed to raise a family while working full time in politics. She balances and $11 billion state budget and has an approval rate among Alaskans of over 80%. And simple minded leftist journalists criticized her for being in politics while she has a family to raise. Obama is running an openly corrupt campaign and the media know all about it but the only one reporting his corruption is Fox News. On his website the software to match up the name and address of the donor to the name and address on file for the credit card holder has been disabled. You donate online to McCain's campaign listing the donor as Me Are Horney 6969 Roundabout Rd Intercourse Pa. 90210, the card will bounce and the donation will not accept. But there is no such problem on Obama's website. That's how fraudulent donations under $200 get done. Input the same credit card# 500 times with different donor names. Do it with many different supporters and that explains how you get $150 million dollars in a single month. Obama has found a way to get around campaign finance laws because he doesn't have to keep a record of donations under $200. Obama refuses to open his books, because he's also getting illegal overseas money, probably from al Qaeda sympathetic groups. McCain offered to open his book to the FEC. The idea that anyone would get $150 million in month from small donors is as absurd as someone running the New York Marathon in less than 1 hour.
keep it up Mike another vote for Obama
He's right about the contribution's on Obama's site Appletart. There are also people who testified in court over other illegal activities yesterday by the campaign and acorn. Obama still refuses to release the names of his under $200 donors. He stated "it would be impossible since it totals over 3 million." If he can't manage 3 million, how does he expect people to believe he can manage the U.S. government?
OBAMA CAMPAIGN FRAUD:STILL TAKING FICTITIOUS DONORS, CREDIT CARD FRAUD Craig, the reader that contributed to Obama as John Galt, Osama Bin Laden, and Bill Ayers provides is with this troubling update. Craig writes me: "Given the bad PR and the additional cost for all their CC transactions; why is the AVS still turned off? This story first broke in the blogs in a big way last Wednesday, and the MSM starting asking the Obama campaign about it by the end of the week. So the Obama campaign surely knows the basic facts of the story and its potential liability; that they don?t have even the most basic security measures initiated at their website. Just to cover their butts; don?t you think they would have turned those features back on? So they can claim ?yes, we discovered the issue and have rectified it several days ago?blah, blah, blah?.? So, I tested the system, yet again, this morning with the same credit card ? this time with Karl Marx as the donor ? and sure enough, it went thru. But Why? Why would they continue to expose themselves to this potential scandal? My bet is (in spite of their claims that it?s too difficult to make the info available) they know down to the penny the exact details of all their under $200 donors and the serial-CC-fraudsters and the simply can?t afford to give up the money. Also, as reported here , it?s actually costing them more per transaction to process all their online donations. Even the ones that aren?t fraudulent. So they know this is a PR issue, and it?s more expensive on a per transaction basis, yet the AVS remains disabled. I can only conclude; they know this is such a significant percentage of their overall revenue, that it spite of the publicity they have to continue to allow the fraud in order to meet their budget goals. They must know just how many of those small donations are coming from fraudulent sources, and if they turn the security on it could drastically impact those $150-million donation months?" Also, if they did publically announce that they restored the security features and a big drop in the fundraising figures ensued, it would only confirm all the fraud up to that point. Meaning, if the fundraising reports show a big drop in CC transactions after they turned the AVS back on, it would be evidence of the crime. It certainly seems to follow from the facts. If this was really an insignificant portion (WaPo says 1%) of their donations it would be a good PR move to simply turn the security on. But they don?t.
And then there are donations outside of the country, this is one of many: And then there's ACORN, remember ACORN is funded by taxpayers:
Ms. MonCrief testified that in November 2007 Project Vote development director Karyn Gillette told her she had direct contact with the Obama campaign and had obtained their donor lists. Ms. MonCrief also testified she was given a spreadsheet to use in cultivating Obama donors who had maxed out on donations to the candidate, but who could contribute to voter registration efforts. Project Vote calls the allegation ?absolutely false.? She says that when she had trouble with what appeared to be duplicate names on the list, Ms. Gillette told her she would talk with the Obama campaign and get a better version. Ms. MonCrief has given me copies of the donor lists she says were obtained from other Democratic campaigns, as well as the 2004 DNC donor lists. In her testimony, Ms. MonCrief says she was upset by Acorn?s ?Muscle for Money? program, which she said intimidated businesses Acorn opposed into paying ?protection? money in the form of grants.
To read the full article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122533169940482893.html This list goes on Appletart.
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Has anyone noticed the polls - predicting the likely vote --- tightening up? Early the ones who wanted you to get bummed out because they wanted Obama to win -- showed him with a great lead --- it is tight now -- so they can have some credibility - and possibly be used in the future - if they are more accurate and close in their predictions. The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win].
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7701053.stm "He loves a fight, he has a notorious temper, but he has also been more ready than his opponent to reach across the senatorial aisle and thrash out deals with opponents" " For his part, Barack Obama knows the more mundane agonies of peace time: being brought up across the racial fault-line as an outsider by a single mother and an absent father; having to succeed at college in order to make a career"
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Wednesday, 29 October 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7360265.stm
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The_Fool:
Has anyone noticed the polls - predicting the likely vote --- tightening up? Early the ones who wanted you to get bummed out because they wanted Obama to win -- showed him with a great lead --- it is tight now -- so they can have some credibility - and possibly be used in the future - if they are more accurate and close in their predictions. The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win].
This needs to be restated....
The thing is to vote -- whatever -- you see in the news or in the polls. *if you are registered to vote (one time) [And if you have to cheat the system -- then you probably weren't meant to win*
Caution on the polls. This last spring they called my house and asked if I was willing to participate in an ongoing presidential poll throughout the campaign. I said sure. They asked a ton of questions. For president and governor I stated McCain and Rossi (both republicans). I never heard from them again. The interesting thing is they are still calling my neighbors who are Obama supporters. Imagine that! I talked to my other neighbor who is a vet and a republican. They only called him that one time too!
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BandontheRun:
Fan Since 1964:
deKooningartist:
Fan Since 1964:
I am an Obama suporter and I can assure you I am not a Socialist and I highly resent your implication "hmmm"! I thought we had a good, civil discussion going even though we have different views but your example has landed civility in the ditch and McCain supporters seem unable to let go of negative campaining buzz words such as Socialist.
I apologize if you feel being termed as a Socialist as a slight. Socialism to me is a different point of view and NOT the philosophy of the Democratic Party. But lately what I have been reading it appears to me the Democratic party has changed it's philosophy. That's where I was coming from. By the way, my best friend for over 40 years is a member of the Socialist Liberation Party and her friend is running for President under that ticket. We are polar opposites on our views of the role of government. I do not think of the word Socialism as a bad word at all. Just a different philosophy I was born and raised a JFK/Scoop Jackson Democrat. But those philosophys have changed. Socialism in theory is a wonderful philosophy. Personally, I believe in smaller government and less taxes. Whereas my friend believes in larger government and spreading the wealth. Just different points of view. I know my friend would be really upset that a few here are offended to be called Socialist In case she ever reads this, for the record, it was not a slight but just an observation that the Dems philosophy has changed in the last 10 years!!! Just my opinion
Hi deK, I appreciate the reply and the information. I'm not so sure that BotR didn't mean it as a negative remark though. : Take care.
I certainly don't mean Socialist as an insult. I am calling a duck a duck. We need to get past the +/- connotation and realize what we are voting for. Do we want the US to be more like North Korea of some areas of Europe or keep it the only nation of 100% Capitalism. These are all different types of government.. the progression from free to the people is Capitalism to Socialism to Communism. I choose more Capitalism rather than a move to Socialism for America. Vote McCain.
BotR, Your scenario seems a bit extremist and far-fetched to me. Obama is not going to sell out this country for the policies of North Korea, nor do I agree with your contention that we will move to Socialism and end up Communist. Ask yourself: How the hell is World Peace ever going to be achieved if voters believe that helping out every American is a move toward Socialism and Communism? Well, at least McCain's policy to perpetuate this war is Capitalistic. : Wednesday at a campaign rally McCain introduced Joe The Plumber and asked "Where are you Joe?" Then someone told McCain that Joe The Plumber was not in the audience. McCain replied "Oh, Joe The Plumber is not here? I thought he was." Then McCain looks at the audience and said "Well, you can all be Joe The Plumber tonight." Is that a sign that his age is catching up with him? If McCain drops we end up with Palin "She shoots Wolves for sport" as President. That's as scary as it gets! At least if something happens to Obama, Joe Biden has more than the 67 days experience on National political stage that Sarah Palin will have logged in by Election Day. With election Day just 4 days away, we should just leave it at we agree to disagree. Vote Obama/Biden for an America based on modern ideas and a better America for ALL Americans, not just the ones in higher tax brackets. Just my opinion.
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For only the wealthy???? : Despite Claiming He'd Lower Taxes For Middle Income Americans, Obama Voted In Favor Of The Democrats' Budget - Which Would Raise Tax Rates For Americans Earning $42,000 Or More:
Obama Voted Twice In Favor Of The Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution. (S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 51-44: R 2-43; D 47-1; I 2-0, 3/14/08, Obama Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #142: Adopted 48-45: R 2-44; D 44-1; I 2-0, 6/4/08, Obama Voted Yea) The Democrats' Budget Would Raise Taxes On Individuals Earning Approximately $42,000 Or More. "The resolution Obama voted for would not have increased taxes on any single taxpayer making less than $41,500 per year in total income(www.factcheck.org, 7/11/0
I guess wealthy went down to $42,000 per year.............
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LCH:
Top rated election related clip there.Yeah! I am watching him on Fox news
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This election is 50 individual state races and here is the latest polling from one of the most reputable polling groups. It's a good site and very interactive: http://www.pollster.com/
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Oh, Republican are losers, eh! How sad, Viv!
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Mikemc:
Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
Well, hopefully the crowds supporting John McCain don't believe everything he's saying... or worse, what Sarah - I can see Russia from my house - Palin is saying!
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anna_medlicka:
Mikemc:
Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
Well, hopefully the crowds supporting John McCain don't believe everything he's saying... or worse, what Sarah - I can see Russia from my house - Palin is saying!
anyway as anti-votes doesn't exist in the end only the "believers" of any of other will matter... I wouldn't believe any of them and not vote. That's democracy, what do we want? we already know the game. Let's see who fools more people and have the prize of being the president. (here, there and everywhere)
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Mikemc:
appletart2:
Mike I hope you get this because is scares me to think you don't. Its like where the deprogramer when you need them. Mccain answer 5000 tax credit. Ya that going to go for health care sure. Most American will use it to pay off bills and the insurance industry will raise the price of insurances and pay out less. Get a clue!
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate? btw, I'm no fan of McCain. He wasn't my first choice, but he made up for it by bringing Palin on the ticket. She is the one Democrats fear the most. She's managed to raise a family while working full time in politics. She balances and $11 billion state budget and has an approval rate among Alaskans of over 80%. And simple minded leftist journalists criticized her for being in politics while she has a family to raise. She balanced it because it is completely subsidized by the US government. Obama is running an openly corrupt campaign and the media know all about it but the only one reporting his corruption is Fox News. On his website the software to match up the name and address of the donor to the name and address on file for the credit card holder has been disabled. You donate online to McCain's campaign listing the donor as Me Are Horney 6969 Roundabout Rd Intercourse Pa. 90210, the card will bounce and the donation will not accept. But there is no such problem on Obama's website. That's how fraudulent donations under $200 get done. Input the same credit card# 500 times with different donor names. Do it with many different supporters and that explains how you get $150 million dollars in a single month. Obama has found a way to get around campaign finance laws because he doesn't have to keep a record of donations under $200. Obama refuses to open his books, because he's also getting illegal overseas money, probably from al Qaeda sympathetic groups. McCain offered to open his book to the FEC. The idea that anyone would get $150 million in month from small donors is as absurd as someone running the New York Marathon in less than 1 hour.
**I'm surprised you haven't used the legitimate claim from the governor of Massachusetts....that's something I could back you up on. :**wink:
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Mikemc:
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate?
Why are you equally as obnoxious and ...1/4th as aware?
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Mikemc:
appletart2:
Mikemc:
Appletart, Everyone in this world is born into it. Who is to say that someone owes you free health care from cradle to grave? What right does an anyone have to make demands of others? Nobody owes you, me, or anyone else around here anything. There is no such thing as "free". Owning a car is not a birthright, owning a home is not a birthright either. And it's not up to someone else to feed you either. Why should I have to work harder to take care of you? Better yet, should you have to work harder and longer each week to take care of me? Mind you, I'm not talking about people who are physically or mentally disabled. I'm also not talking about elderly people who paid taxes all their life either. Certain people deserves more rights than others. If you are healthy and able you deserve only what you can afford, nothing more and nothing less.
Sounds like you're basing this on a false assumption....that all of us will be "physically or mentally abled"....not necessarily true....then what? Hummm!! car owner ship VS health care. Ok let me reword it. Heath care services up until Wall Street saw it as a profitable gig, used to be a calling. Most hospitals were run by religious organization and were mostly charity. No one would ever turn a sick person away for lack of payment. Or because of law that forbade that to happen either. Fast forward. The creation of medical insurances(or known in the streets of little Italy, as Guido) Once formed they were supposed to (for a fee) cover your medical coverage. However as they involved they lobby hard to pass laws to give them more rights to not pay. they also got government to join in threw lobbying and once government employees all over the US had great medical insurances, no one cared about the rest of the public. Not sure about the rest of the country, but up here the "insurance" is nonprofit....each state does their own health insurance for state workers so be careful not to lump them all into NY's state of affairs or Massachusetts. Why if our current system is so fair. Why do government employees have such better coverage than you or I can buy. You congressperson serves 6 years and get LIFETIME medical paid for. I believe you're speaking of the coverage provided to senators and congressmen, not necessarily those of state workers in each state...not the same. Point is taken though. :wink: With a trillion dollar government secured sugar tit for the insurances industry to suck from, they don't have a lot of interest in insuring the rest of the public. They get so over paid by government that they don't want the regular guy. Plus they get to stick it too the self employed. hmmmm..... As the insurances company became more powerful (because they cheat people and don't pay for what there suppose to) they ended up driving health care threw the roof and now if you don't have medical in many cases, you can't get any medical service. Yes and no You go into an emergency room, you will be taken care of (law in most states)....insurance is only part of the health care issue...there are many more variables causing the issues we are facing, not just insurance. OUR system is broken! Broken! Agreed. What being proposed is currently being used in every country but ours. You and I will both pay one price for insurances. Government will than pay a fair price for all services and contol price gouging which we don't have now. Doctor want it the sick want it and the healthy should want it. You payment will be like 50 month VS mine which is 589 a month. The medical community and insurances industry and been plotting and planning for years. Raising prices threw the roof assuming years ago we would of went on socialized medicine but Wall street was making too much money and the drug companies. They don't want it. Now we have a false inflated medical system. You go to Canada and you can buy drugs sooooooo much cheaper than the same drug is produced here. Why because that what the country would pay. We have no one in our country taking care of us. We are being exployed as a country because we do have means here. So everyone can over charge the rich american. Your schooling is paid for and so should your health care. Change is a good and important thing. No one should have to worry about getting sick. They should just be helped to get well. Your being brain washed. Hey look at it like a Rep would look at it. Spend it on YOU or they'll spend in on some Iraqi or worse AIG CEO. It will cost less if all are on the same program.
The biggest expense incurred in health care is malpractice insurance. Tort reform could lower costs substantially but the democrats won't allow tort reform because they are bought and paid for by trial lawyers. Doctors have to order up every kind of ridiculous test just to cover his ass. All that raises the cost of medical insurance. Yes, I agree with you completely here.....too often we expect doctors to walk on water...when they don't, it's settled in court more often than it should be. Mind you, there are cases where it should, but not to the extent that the public seems to demand it....that has to change. When Hillary tried to socialize health care with "Hillary Care" in the 90's members of the House and Senate were gonna be exempt. They wanted new laws for us, not them. Shouldn't that raise a red flag when they exempt themselves and especially their families from a health care plan they want for us? Part of it was she was too arrogant and would not reach consensus with the legislators....my way, or no way is not the way to get it done. Also, the Hillary today appears to be different that the Hillary in 1993 or so. Another reason for higher health care costs are people living longer because of advancements in medicine. Sure you can buy meds from Canada. But if you get ill or killed from a bad batch of medicine, you're on your own. If you are prescribed a med and get a duplicate made in India and it's bad or worthless, you're on your own. The cost for each pill we swallow includes insurance because the drug company is liable. Part of the argument though is the R&D is done here (thus, we pay the higher costs), while other countries get the benefits (lower costs).... Doctors don't want government run health care. My doctor is gonna pack it in if it passes. Look at England. Most of their doctors are from India and the mid east because Brits don't want to go through all those years of schooling to become an underpaid civil service worker. And the doctors we would get would have inferior education and experience coming from countries with lower standards. Like Britain, health care in the US will be rationed and it will take months to get an appointment with your doctor. It already takes awhile to get an appointment because there are fewer primary care physicians. The doctors we get are educated here. My state has many teaching hospitals, thus our state costs for health care are the highest in the world.....repeat, highest in the world. Health care is not rationed here, there is private sector insurance along with the public sector, and sometimes a combination, private sector (Blue Cross) with a portion subsidized by government. Of course the individual chooses what they want....sounds like a market doesn't it? 97% of our citizens are now covered by health insurance, the key to open the door to care...no other state is higher. Google it. Now we work on costs, not an easy thing.:wink: Don't forget, when you come into this world the only ones who owe you anything are your parents. And nobody owes them anything. They have to work to provide for you the things you need and want. It's nobody elses job to take care of you. (when I say "you" I'm not referring to you specifically. I'm talking about all of us) Agreed. My brother was taking care of a wife, two kids, and his in laws. He figured there had to be a better way. He didn't sit around whining that it's the governments fault. He took matters into his own hands. He went to college full time while working full time and graduated with a 3.97 index. He took on a better job, but he still wanted more. He went back to school again for his Masters in Computer Science. Then he got the job that he really wanted. But everything he's got he worked for. He didn't complain that someone owed him a bigger house and a better paying job because he has kids and in laws. He worked harder and harder never giving up and now he's right where he wants to be. Many people can get there....what about the rest? Working hard doesn't get everyone where they need to be. When you say the government will than pay a fair share and stop price gouging. Who is the government? The government is the people. And if 40% pay no taxes at all the other 50% is paying for their health care and yours. Nobody owes you anything and if you have any faith in government to keep you healthy plan a short life because they are the very last people you want "helping" you. Think about New Orleans. So far, the government hasn't rebuilt private homes destroyed but Habitat for Humanity has built a lot of homes because they got past dumb government red tape. Look at "ground zero" in lower Manhattan. They've done nothing in 7 years. It took a year to build the Empire State Building back in 1930, and the construction workers didn't have the technological advances that we have today. Right near where I live over passes for a narrow parkway are in need of rebuilding. Each overpass should take about a year. They've been averaging 5 to 7 years for each one. If you want to live a long happy life don't plan on the government keeping you healthy. Trust your own instincts and your doctors instincts.
My observation is that there are many that do what they can do: get educated, work hard, et al, yet are thwarted in achieving what is necessary, not because they're lazy, stupid...I've seen many people in this predicament and they are loathe to ask anyone, let alone government for help....perhaps you need to tell them: "tough, you get squat"?? I don't know....
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Anyway, for what it's worth if you get into the latest poll....
ZOGBY SATURDAY: McCain outpolled Obama 48% to 47% in Friday poll. He is beginning to cut into Obama's lead among independents
Btw, Happy Halloween
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"We should be working for each other"