The ..2012.... Political thread
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Bruce M.:
Mikemc:
If the Democrats get the executive branch and a super majority in both houses of Congress America will be a third world country in less than a generation. The first of many rights we will lose is the First Amendment when the Dems push through something called the Fairness Doctrine.
This is a mind-bogglingly preposterous statement. First, there have been plenty of eras when the Democrats controlled both the White House and both houses of Congress with overwhelming majorities. One was under Franklin Roosevelt, when the nation was lifted out of the Great Depression and defeated Hitler. Another was under Lyndon Johnson, during which we passed civil rights, voting rights, and some of the greatest prosperity the nation ever knew. Oh, and the Fairness Doctrine was in effect then, and the First Amendment was alive and well.
The Democratic Party was different under Roosevelt. The only thing the Democratic Party of pre-Johnson has in common with the Democratic Party of today is they share the same name. So you can put your preposterous comparison to rest right now. The Democratic Party of today has been hijacked by far leftists who have more in common with Castro, PolPot and Stalin than they ever did with the last real Democratic president, JFK. The "Fairness Doctrine" is just another nicely named tool of the Democrats to put an end to am talk radio, the only place for conservatives to get real news. At least on tv we now have Fox News. That gets better ratings than the other cable news networks combined, yet Fox employs more liberals than the other networks employ conservatives combined. But, that's not good enough for the Marxists who rule the Democratic Party. They want to go back to a having a news monopoly because most Americans like Fox News and the Dems failed with Air America. Even after swindling $20 million from a South Bronx charity they still couldn't stay afloat. So they create a bill with a nice sounding name (who would say no to FAIRNESS?) to undo the protections of the First Amendment . It ain't gonna work.
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I'll be back later to answer the rest. Mike
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Fan Since 1964:
I am an Obama suporter and I can assure you I am not a Socialist and I highly resent your implication "hmmm"! I thought we had a good, civil discussion going even though we have different views but your example has landed civility in the ditch and McCain supporters seem unable to let go of negative campaining buzz words such as Socialist.
I apologize if you feel being termed as a Socialist as a slight. Socialism to me is a different point of view and NOT the philosophy of the Democratic Party. But lately what I have been reading it appears to me the Democratic party has changed it's philosophy. That's where I was coming from. By the way, my best friend for over 40 years is a member of the Socialist Liberation Party and her friend is running for President under that ticket. We are polar opposites on our views of the role of government. I do not think of the word Socialism as a bad word at all. Just a different philosophy I was born and raised a JFK/Scoop Jackson Democrat. But those philosophys have changed. Socialism in theory is a wonderful philosophy. Personally, I believe in smaller government and less taxes. Whereas my friend believes in larger government and spreading the wealth. Just different points of view. I know my friend would be really upset that a few here are offended to be called Socialist In case she ever reads this, for the record, it was not a slight but just an observation that the Dems philosophy has changed in the last 10 years!!! Just my opinion
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7699509.stm Democrat and Republican--- Good Luck!
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I never thought I would post a column by conservative George Will. But, I do read him once in awhile as he does have some insight at times. Well it looks like he has really jumped ship along with most of the more intelligent republican/conservatives. Here is his latest writing and he couldn't be any more damnng of Geeser/Dingbat http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/palin_and_money_doing_mc.html
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deKooningartist:
Fan Since 1964:
I am an Obama suporter and I can assure you I am not a Socialist and I highly resent your implication "hmmm"! I thought we had a good, civil discussion going even though we have different views but your example has landed civility in the ditch and McCain supporters seem unable to let go of negative campaining buzz words such as Socialist.
I apologize if you feel being termed as a Socialist as a slight. Socialism to me is a different point of view and NOT the philosophy of the Democratic Party. But lately what I have been reading it appears to me the Democratic party has changed it's philosophy. That's where I was coming from. By the way, my best friend for over 40 years is a member of the Socialist Liberation Party and her friend is running for President under that ticket. We are polar opposites on our views of the role of government. I do not think of the word Socialism as a bad word at all. Just a different philosophy I was born and raised a JFK/Scoop Jackson Democrat. But those philosophys have changed. Socialism in theory is a wonderful philosophy. Personally, I believe in smaller government and less taxes. Whereas my friend believes in larger government and spreading the wealth. Just different points of view. I know my friend would be really upset that a few here are offended to be called Socialist In case she ever reads this, for the record, it was not a slight but just an observation that the Dems philosophy has changed in the last 10 years!!! Just my opinion
Hi deK, I appreciate the reply and the information. I'm not so sure that BotR didn't mean it as a negative remark though. : Take care.
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Fan Since 1964:
deKooningartist:
Fan Since 1964:
I am an Obama suporter and I can assure you I am not a Socialist and I highly resent your implication "hmmm"! I thought we had a good, civil discussion going even though we have different views but your example has landed civility in the ditch and McCain supporters seem unable to let go of negative campaining buzz words such as Socialist.
I apologize if you feel being termed as a Socialist as a slight. Socialism to me is a different point of view and NOT the philosophy of the Democratic Party. But lately what I have been reading it appears to me the Democratic party has changed it's philosophy. That's where I was coming from. By the way, my best friend for over 40 years is a member of the Socialist Liberation Party and her friend is running for President under that ticket. We are polar opposites on our views of the role of government. I do not think of the word Socialism as a bad word at all. Just a different philosophy I was born and raised a JFK/Scoop Jackson Democrat. But those philosophys have changed. Socialism in theory is a wonderful philosophy. Personally, I believe in smaller government and less taxes. Whereas my friend believes in larger government and spreading the wealth. Just different points of view. I know my friend would be really upset that a few here are offended to be called Socialist In case she ever reads this, for the record, it was not a slight but just an observation that the Dems philosophy has changed in the last 10 years!!! Just my opinion
Hi deK, I appreciate the reply and the information. I'm not so sure that BotR didn't mean it as a negative remark though. : Take care.
I certainly don't mean Socialist as an insult. I am calling a duck a duck. We need to get past the +/- connotation and realize what we are voting for. Do we want the US to be more like North Korea of some areas of Europe or keep it the only nation of 100% Capitalism. These are all different types of government.. the progression from free to the people is Capitalism to Socialism to Communism. I choose more Capitalism rather than a move to Socialism for America. Vote McCain.
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i personally prefer free enterprise...with some kind of reasonable structure to it
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appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
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Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Let's put a time clock on now until we receive a well thought, intellectual response ....
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appletart2:
Mike I hope you get this because is scares me to think you don't. Its like where the deprogramer when you need them. Mccain answer 5000 tax credit. Ya that going to go for health care sure. Most American will use it to pay off bills and the insurance industry will raise the price of insurances and pay out less. Get a clue!
Why are you so obnoxious and illiterate? btw, I'm no fan of McCain. He wasn't my first choice, but he made up for it by bringing Palin on the ticket. She is the one Democrats fear the most. She's managed to raise a family while working full time in politics. She balances and $11 billion state budget and has an approval rate among Alaskans of over 80%. And simple minded leftist journalists criticized her for being in politics while she has a family to raise. Obama is running an openly corrupt campaign and the media know all about it but the only one reporting his corruption is Fox News. On his website the software to match up the name and address of the donor to the name and address on file for the credit card holder has been disabled. You donate online to McCain's campaign listing the donor as Me Are Horney 6969 Roundabout Rd Intercourse Pa. 90210, the card will bounce and the donation will not accept. But there is no such problem on Obama's website. That's how fraudulent donations under $200 get done. Input the same credit card# 500 times with different donor names. Do it with many different supporters and that explains how you get $150 million dollars in a single month. Obama has found a way to get around campaign finance laws because he doesn't have to keep a record of donations under $200. Obama refuses to open his books, because he's also getting illegal overseas money, probably from al Qaeda sympathetic groups. McCain offered to open his book to the FEC. The idea that anyone would get $150 million in month from small donors is as absurd as someone running the New York Marathon in less than 1 hour.
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Andy_Shofar:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Let's put a time clock on now until we receive a well thought, intellectual response ....
Ain't gonna happen.
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Mikemc:
Andy_Shofar:
Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Let's put a time clock on now until we receive a well thought, intellectual response ....
Ain't gonna happen.
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Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
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Mikemc:
Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
I think I'll take in a summary on YouTube tomorrow evening Well first to read what a few journalists have to say Gotta be quiet at work
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appletart2:
Mikemc:
Appletart, Everyone in this world is born into it. Who is to say that someone owes you free health care from cradle to grave? What right does an anyone have to make demands of others? Nobody owes you, me, or anyone else around here anything. There is no such thing as "free". Owning a car is not a birthright, owning a home is not a birthright either. And it's not up to someone else to feed you either. Why should I have to work harder to take care of you? Better yet, should you have to work harder and longer each week to take care of me? Mind you, I'm not talking about people who are physically or mentally disabled. I'm also not talking about elderly people who paid taxes all their life either. Certain people deserves more rights than others. If you are healthy and able you deserve only what you can afford, nothing more and nothing less.
Hummm!! car owner ship VS health care. Ok let me reword it. Heath care services up until Wall Street saw it as a profitable gig, used to be a calling. Most hospitals were run by religious organization and were mostly charity. No one would ever turn a sick person away for lack of payment. Fast forward. The creation of medical insurances(or known in the streets of little Italy, as Guido) Once formed they were supposed to (for a fee) cover your medical coverage. However as they involved they lobby hard to pass laws to give them more rights to not pay. they also got government to join in threw lobbying and once government employees all over the US had great medical insurances, no one cared about the rest of the public. Why if our current system is so fair. Why do government employees have such better coverage than you or I can buy. You congressperson serves 6 years and get LIFETIME medical paid for. With a trillion dollar government secured sugar tit for the insurances industry to suck from, they don't have a lot of interest in insuring the rest of the public. They get so over paid by government that they don't want the regular guy. Plus they get to stick it too the self employed. As the insurances company became more powerful (because they cheat people and don't pay for what there suppose to) they ended up driving health care threw the roof and now if you don't have medical in many cases, you can't get any medical service. OUR system is broken! Broken! What being proposed is currently being used in every country but ours. You and I will both pay one price for insurances. Government will than pay a fair price for all services and contol price gouging which we don't have now. Doctor want it the sick want it and the healthy should want it. You payment will be like 50 month VS mine which is 589 a month. The medical community and insurances industry and been plotting and planning for years. Raising prices threw the roof assuming years ago we would of went on socialized medicine but Wall street was making too much money and the drug companies. They don't want it. Now we have a false inflated medical system. You go to Canada and you can buy drugs sooooooo much cheaper than the same drug is produced here. Why because that what the country would pay. We have no one in our country taking care of us. We are being exployed as a country because we do have means here. So everyone can over charge the rich american. Your schooling is paid for and so should your health care. Change is a good and important thing. No one should have to worry about getting sick. They should just be helped to get well. Your being brain washed. Hey look at it like a Rep would look at it. Spend it on YOU or they'll spend in on some Iraqi or worse AIG CEO. It will cost less if all are on the same program.
The biggest expense incurred in health care is malpractice insurance. Tort reform could lower costs substantially but the democrats won't allow tort reform because they are bought and paid for by trial lawyers. Doctors have to order up every kind of ridiculous test just to cover his ass. All that raises the cost of medical insurance. When Hillary tried to socialize health care with "Hillary Care" in the 90's members of the House and Senate were gonna be exempt. They wanted new laws for us, not them. Shouldn't that raise a red flag when they exempt themselves and especially their families from a health care plan they want for us? Another reason for higher health care costs are people living longer because of advancements in medicine. Sure you can buy meds from Canada. But if you get ill or killed from a bad batch of medicine, you're on your own. If you are prescribed a med and get a duplicate made in India and it's bad or worthless, you're on your own. The cost for each pill we swallow includes insurance because the drug company is liable. Doctors don't want government run health care. My doctor is gonna pack it in if it passes. Look at England. Most of their doctors are from India and the mid east because Brits don't want to go through all those years of schooling to become an underpaid civil service worker. And the doctors we would get would have inferior education and experience coming from countries with lower standards. Like Britain, health care in the US will be rationed and it will take months to get an appointment with your doctor. Don't forget, when you come into this world the only ones who owe you anything are your parents. And nobody owes them anything. They have to work to provide for you the things you need and want. It's nobody elses job to take care of you. (when I say "you" I'm not referring to you specifically. I'm talking about all of us) My brother was taking care of a wife, two kids, and his in laws. He figured there had to be a better way. He didn't sit around whining that it's the governments fault. He took matters into his own hands. He went to college full time while working full time and graduated with a 3.97 index. He took on a better job, but he still wanted more. He went back to school again for his Masters in Computer Science. Then he got the job that he really wanted. But everything he's got he worked for. He didn't complain that someone owed him a bigger house and a better paying job because he has kids and in laws. He worked harder and harder never giving up and now he's right where he wants to be. When you say the government will than pay a fair share and stop price gouging. Who is the government? The government is the people. And if 40% pay no taxes at all the other 50% is paying for their health care and yours. Nobody owes you anything and if you have any faith in government to keep you healthy plan a short life because they are the very last people you want "helping" you. Think about New Orleans. So far, the government hasn't rebuilt private homes destroyed but Habitat for Humanity has built a lot of homes because they got past dumb government red tape. Look at "ground zero" in lower Manhattan. They've done nothing in 7 years. It took a year to build the Empire State Building back in 1930, and the construction workers didn't have the technological advances that we have today. Right near where I live over passes for a narrow parkway are in need of rebuilding. Each overpass should take about a year. They've been averaging 5 to 7 years for each one. If you want to live a long happy life don't plan on the government keeping you healthy. Trust your own instincts and your doctors instincts.
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Mikemc:
Obama's on live tv right now promising everything to everyone. Forget $250,000 and above to raise taxes. He's gonna have to raise taxes on everyone making over $250. One expensive promise after another after another etc... It just goes on and on. I can't believe his audience is so dumb that they believe everything he's saying.
This is exactly what I've been thinking. It's as if the Obama team are so mezmerized by him that they can't see or hear a thing beyond the word 'change.' His 'change' is true, but not the kind of change that will be good for America.
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Mikemc:
appletart2:
I guess Mike forgot the rights we lost with this administration. Three words The Patriotic act.
Appletart, Tell me about how your personal rights have changed because of the Patriot Act. I hear people complain all the time but have no answer when asked what rights they were deprived. I have three words to: The Brooklyn Bridge. If not for the Patriot Act it would no longer be standing.
Well glad the bridge is still there for you to use. Have at it. The world would be a nicer place. Mike you personally attack people who disagree with you and have been warned repeatedly to knock if off but your so irrogant and conceded you can't help yourself. You have personally done more to get Barack Obama elected with your white, male supremacy, all about me, additude and for that I thank you. Here just a few examples of what we all lost with passing of the Patriot Act. A act the 90% of congress never even read when they passed it into law. Its illegal now to yell out where a Politician is speaking in public and they can arrested you for doing this and its now a Felony. Government no longer respects FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Those who worked for NSA are quiting due to Bush's disregards for our privacy rights. They were spying and easy dropping on private citizen and who knows who on this board might of been one. No I not willing to give up my freedom for a paranoid like you who believes there all out to get us. They also suspended Habeas corpus under the PA. I lost the right to a fair trail. If falsely charged with being a terrorist they now have the right to arrest me, charge me with terrorism, take me off to a prison without disclosing where and tell know one where you been taken and for what your being charged with. I'm thinking this could be abused. : Another change in law due to this act is now if you lie to a cop its a felony. Your a young kid. You get pulled over by a cop and freak out and lie to the cop and give him a false name. You have now committed a felony and will never be able to vote in this country again after you serve your jail time. The true consequence of this law can be so abused by government its really quite scary. I don't live in Nazi Germany and this Act is something you would expect to be drafted there. Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin would turn in his grave knowing they abused the word Patriot in such a act that is so not a act of patriotism. Oh one last thing Mike, Bill O'Reilly is a dick with ears
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I am proud to be termed a Socialist Just because the right wing media , murdoch, fox , and the right wing establishment, have brainwashed the general public into thinking its a dirty word, dosn,t mean they are morally right.....and i am in the wrong . ( the reverse in fact) Any disagreement with these people and the same old cliches are thrown up.....socialist/ commi/ pinko/ anti American/ un patriotic/ mass murdering wife beaters ect. Trouble is that many of the sheep like public swallow it....they are just looking after their own interests, and sod the public.