The ..2012.... Political thread
-
deKooningartist:
Someone's race, sex or age does not dictate their common sense with regards to intelligence. Political Charisma, Political Poetry, Ivy League Intelligence - that's great. That makes anyone with those qualities an effective speaker- star like qualities. These are a plus. The problem with some of us that could not vote for him was there was no history that proved that what he pointificated infront of an audience, he actually could follow through with. That was one of my main problems with him. To me he felt 'manufactured' by the Democratic Party. Within the Democratic Party there are some great people there with good records but unfortunately for the Liberals they come from the DLC. And for me what is an immediate alarm bell, is all the promises he made being erased from his website. That should send a signal to anyone
You're saying that the democratic party decided to 'manufacture' a black candidate most had not heard of, with the middle name of Hussen because he would be the package deal that everyone really wanted. That is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read
-
21st Century Paul:
mustangsally10:
Large fluctuations in the market come mostly from institutional investing and hedge funds and not individual investors. Hedge funds are almost totally unregulated and I understand that Soros is one who is being consulted about implementing some restrictions on Hedge Fund investing.
I hope so, everything that Soros says these days is just what happens next. And he says how could be avoided but politicians don't apply it, but it seems they're starting to do it.
Yes I agree about Soros...he's brilliant. But the best thing is that he is a true humanitarian. He really seems to care about people and about improving conditions in the world. I love Bruce singing "The Rising"
-
mustangsally10:
Twisting oneself in a knott because of a change in a website sounds a little extreme to me. I think Obama is going to be a great president and there are a great majority of our best and brightest citizens who agree with me. Some people just need to relax nobody is coming to take away their dear possessions. All some can think of here are capital gain taxes and other taxes. There are alot more important things then material possessions.
Twisted oneself in a knott over a change in the website???? I'd sooner say Obama and his desciples are the one's twisting themselves in knotts over all the promises they made to the U.S. and to the world. OOPS - can't deliver on that promise anymore, better delete that page. That's just some of the topics we have been discussing. No one implied that they were afraid Obama was going to come in and take their dear possessions...unless of course you are talking about the government seizing people's 401K retirement plans then, ya! : "A portrayal of greatness does not equal greatness"
-
mustangsally10:
21st Century Paul:
mustangsally10:
Large fluctuations in the market come mostly from institutional investing and hedge funds and not individual investors. Hedge funds are almost totally unregulated and I understand that Soros is one who is being consulted about implementing some restrictions on Hedge Fund investing.
I hope so, everything that Soros says these days is just what happens next. And he says how could be avoided but politicians don't apply it, but it seems they're starting to do it.
Yes I agree about Soros...he's brilliant. But the best thing is that he is a true humanitarian. He really seems to care about people and about improving conditions in the world. I love Bruce singing "The Rising"
He says that in the past he was not like that, but he feels guilty for his past, and now wants to pay things back, helping to the highest good with his knowledge. And the thing is that I believe him.
-
BTW interesting movements in the stock market, the Spanish banks are falling fast and General Motors has fallen to levels of 1943. It's the seems the more a company is helped by a gov the less value it hase for investors.
-
jaipur:
As long as you have a long time horizon, you will be fine....that has been proven time and time again.....which is why those folks need to calm down imnsho.
I see I'm not the only one who uses that expression.
-
deKooningartist:
Twisted oneself in a knott over a change in the website???? I'd sooner say Obama and his desciples are the one's twisting themselves in knotts over all the promises they made to the U.S. and to the world. OOPS - can't deliver on that promise anymore, better delete that page.
Now this is the kind of thing I was talking about when I spoke of judging harshly. Does anyone seriously believe John McCain could have stuck to his tax-cuts-for-all policy even after the government adopted another trillion dollars of debt overnight? It was disingenuous of both candidates to not revisit their tax policies after the government nationalised bad debt. They would have delivered on their income tax cuts, but you will see a steady rise in federal charges to cover the gap and you would under a McCain administration too. That's the straight talk.
-
peter:
deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
I am sure he is aware that we have had a Woman Prime Minister and a Jewish Prime Minister. Indeed at the last election, I changed my mind at the last moment to vote for a Jewish Prime Minister due to the anti Semitic attacks on him by junior Labour party ministers and backbenchers to get the Muslim vote. Up until five years ago we had a asian and two black ministers that we well in the running for the position of leader of the labour party after Blair and Brown. Two were however as incompetent as all their colleagues and one is so sleazy that they blew their chances. The other is now the ambassador to South Africa by accepting such a move was a backward step. Had he stayed in the forefront of British politics he would have been excellently placed to have removed Brown in the summer. Uptil a mere six weeks ago I would have said we would have a coloured Prime Minister before the United States had a coloured President. I would not be surprised if the President -elect called the new dog Lehman. At the moment both parties have a couple of capable MP's from asian orgin. One of whom is a highly impressive performer but is slightly distancing himself from the government. For when the Brown and Blair dictatorship is finally over the Labour party will be looking for a clean pair of hands.
Might mention a blind minister while you're at it.
-
deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
You voted for Obama ?.......Thank You! Free Enterprise and Capitalism.......are not the same thing!
-
deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
I don't know what you mean, but if someone benefiting for something critizes it, his opinion is much more relevant than the one of someone benefited for that and favouring it, cause he would be biased.
-
mustangsally10:
jaipur:
mustangsally10:
The US auto makers have been resisting government intervention demanding higher cafe standards (more fuel efficient vehicles) all the time losing market share to other countries who were building the fuel efficient cars that americans have been buying. They have been poorly managed and influenced by the oil industry to build big gas gussers vehicles like hummers and others SUVs. They deserve to fail but unfortunately they are huge employers so I doubt they will be allowed to fail. The US is bleeding jobs that is one of our biggest problems. We have so many problems but Obama will have to start with the economy which is in meltdown. Update: I understand that if they are given any government aid it will be required that they use much of it for fuel efficient vehicles.
Yes they are huge employers.....and as such they have not been able to do as much with health care and pensions as other companies have.....that's a major part of their problem as well.....GM has a great fuel efficient car coming in 2010, Chrysler is now privately owned, and it is difficult to see how Ford can't be included in the mix..... I've heard the same thing about the airline industry that hasn't fully recovered from 9/11......I can't see any American making the "sacrifice" of getting to LA by Amtrak
The US auto makers have so many problems one of the major is that for most of the past years they have been concentrating on profits from their credit divisions and neglecting what they are there for; to build quality and marketable vehicles. For many of the past years they have had more financial people than real car people involved in their business decisions. I agree with you health care and pensions is another major problem for the auto industry. There is no turning back from the fact that we are in a global economy and the countries we are competing with all provide their citizens with health care which makes their businesses more competitive. We need to do the same. I don't understand why business has not been lobbying the govt. to provide universal health care. Makes sense...perhaps that's why
The auto industry, has definitely been been poorly managed. But they are influenced by their market... not by the oil industry. People like SUV's because they are big. That's the way it is. Prius owners boast about how much 'bigger' their car is than the Smartcar... why is that mindset so different? Unfortunately, the Big Three has not been profit driven... until late. They have been their own economy, relying on a snowball effect. They make the cars, they buy the cars, they sell the cars. I heard Obama and Mccain say the American worker is one of our best assets... I say that's quasi, bullshit. The overpaid, buddy punching, retiring at age 50, full pay, full benifits, union workers have been robbing the bank for decades, and will be the downfall on the industry. Everyone feels sorry for them... does anyone here know what they make?!? I do! Here's the deal... GM has/had 26 billion is cash. It costs them 14 to keep the doors open. 26-14= 12 ($12 billion) They are losing about 1 billion per month That's 12 months. Now I did that math a few months ago, so the clock is ticking faster than this. GM/GMAC wants out of the finance business. Cerberus wants out of the auto sales business. Cerberus basically owns Chrysler. The "merger" that I wish would have happened would mean Cerberus gets GMAC. GM gets Chrysler (more important, it's $11 billion in cash.) GM drops Chrysler brands except for the minivan. Then sells off Jeep, Viper and Hummer, because they are still worth money, internationally. GM now takes that money and Chrysler's cash and has about two years to play with... with one less company to compete with. *This would have costed tens of thousands of jobs.* But, since this didn't happen... We, the American taxpayer are about to be asked to float the Big Three, I figure about $50 billion... on top of the original 25. And in two years we will be having this same discussion as both go under. *This will cost at least twice as many jobs* We're about to get f*cked, with no Vaseline. And you can thank the UAW for it.
-
Oh, and... My prediction: The Volt will be one of the biggest flops in the history of the automobile! I'll see you all here in 2010 to, hopefully, take my licking for being wrong.
-
There is 10 times as much energy available with the sun...the wind...and thee internal heat of the earth...than there is with any fuel source that is high in particulate contamination! Unions have helped to keep us from slavery.......yet and while .......At what point do unions begin to enslave us?
-
Jonathan:
mustangsally10:
jaipur:
mustangsally10:
The US auto makers have been resisting government intervention demanding higher cafe standards (more fuel efficient vehicles) all the time losing market share to other countries who were building the fuel efficient cars that americans have been buying. They have been poorly managed and influenced by the oil industry to build big gas gussers vehicles like hummers and others SUVs. They deserve to fail but unfortunately they are huge employers so I doubt they will be allowed to fail. The US is bleeding jobs that is one of our biggest problems. We have so many problems but Obama will have to start with the economy which is in meltdown. Update: I understand that if they are given any government aid it will be required that they use much of it for fuel efficient vehicles.
Yes they are huge employers.....and as such they have not been able to do as much with health care and pensions as other companies have.....that's a major part of their problem as well.....GM has a great fuel efficient car coming in 2010, Chrysler is now privately owned, and it is difficult to see how Ford can't be included in the mix..... I've heard the same thing about the airline industry that hasn't fully recovered from 9/11......I can't see any American making the "sacrifice" of getting to LA by Amtrak
The US auto makers have so many problems one of the major is that for most of the past years they have been concentrating on profits from their credit divisions and neglecting what they are there for; to build quality and marketable vehicles. For many of the past years they have had more financial people than real car people involved in their business decisions. I agree with you health care and pensions is another major problem for the auto industry. There is no turning back from the fact that we are in a global economy and the countries we are competing with all provide their citizens with health care which makes their businesses more competitive. We need to do the same. I don't understand why business has not been lobbying the govt. to provide universal health care. Makes sense...perhaps that's why
The auto industry, has definitely been been poorly managed. But they are influenced by their market... not by the oil industry. People like SUV's because they are big. That's the way it is. Prius owners boast about how much 'bigger' their car is than the Smartcar... why is that mindset so different? Unfortunately, the Big Three has not been profit driven... until late. They have been their own economy, relying on a snowball effect. They make the cars, they buy the cars, they sell the cars. I heard Obama and Mccain say the American worker is one of our best assets... I say that's quasi, bulls**t. The overpaid, buddy punching, retiring at age 50, full pay, full benifits, union workers have been robbing the bank for decades, and will be the downfall on the industry. Everyone feels sorry for them... does anyone here know what they make?!? I do! Here's the deal... GM has/had 26 billion is cash. It costs them 14 to keep the doors open. 26-14= 12 ($12 billion) They are losing about 1 billion per month That's 12 months. Now I did that math a few months ago, so the clock is ticking faster than this. GM/GMAC wants out of the finance business. Cerberus wants out of the auto sales business. Cerberus basically owns Chrysler. The "merger" that I wish would have happened would mean Cerberus gets GMAC. GM gets Chrysler (more important, it's $11 billion in cash.) GM drops Chrysler brands except for the minivan. Then sells off Jeep, Viper and Hummer, because they are still worth money, internationally. GM now takes that money and Chrysler's cash and has about two years to play with... with one less company to compete with. *This would have costed tens of thousands of jobs.* But, since this didn't happen... We, the American taxpayer are about to be asked to float the Big Three, I figure about $50 billion... on top of the original 25. And in two years we will be having this same discussion as both go under. *This will cost at least twice as many jobs* We're about to get f*cked, with no Vaseline. And you can thank the UAW for it.
You know alot more about the details than I do. I have been looking at the big picture with this and thinking that perhaps they should be allowed to go bankrupt. Then they would have to restructure. They have too many problems to just patch up with more money. I agree with you they would probably be back in 2 years for more money. We are needing to pump money into the economy but I don't think this bailout would have any lasting value. The only time we have had a somewhat similiar situation was before the Great Depression. The economy didn't respond to stimulus until we started the huge military buildup to WW2. Yeah we are screwed big time. I think the 'market' is only as smart as the people involved.
-
Bill:
deKooningartist:
Twisted oneself in a knott over a change in the website???? I'd sooner say Obama and his desciples are the one's twisting themselves in knotts over all the promises they made to the U.S. and to the world. OOPS - can't deliver on that promise anymore, better delete that page.
Now this is the kind of thing I was talking about when I spoke of judging harshly. Does anyone seriously believe John McCain could have stuck to his tax-cuts-for-all policy even after the government adopted another trillion dollars of debt overnight? It was disingenuous of both candidates to not revisit their tax policies after the government nationalised bad debt. They would have delivered on their income tax cuts, but you will see a steady rise in federal charges to cover the gap and you would under a McCain administration too. That's the straight talk.
You were assuming I was talking about the economy
-
[quote="21st Century Paul"]
deKooningartist:
The same people in other countries that condemn America for capitalism are the same people that have benefited from it too I think he needs to ask himself if, has the UK ever had a black prime minister?
I don't know what you mean, but if someone benefiting for something critizes it, his opinion is much more relevant than the one of someone benefited for that and favouring it, cause he would be biased.
Did you watch his video Oliver?
-
mustangsally10:
deKooningartist:
Someone's race, sex or age does not dictate their common sense with regards to intelligence. Political Charisma, Political Poetry, Ivy League Intelligence - that's great. That makes anyone with those qualities an effective speaker- star like qualities. These are a plus. The problem with some of us that could not vote for him was there was no history that proved that what he pointificated infront of an audience, he actually could follow through with. That was one of my main problems with him. To me he felt 'manufactured' by the Democratic Party. Within the Democratic Party there are some great people there with good records but unfortunately for the Liberals they come from the DLC. And for me what is an immediate alarm bell, is all the promises he made being erased from his website. That should send a signal to anyone
You're saying that the democratic party decided to 'manufacture' a black candidate most had not heard of, with the middle name of Hussen because he would be the package deal that everyone really wanted. That is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read
Then tell me why would they not release any of his school records? He claims to be smart. People around him are always telling us he is. But yet we have no records of his claims? The press and his campaign kept pushing on his high intelligence but yet we can't confirm any of it. Yes he reads a great speech written by others, but can he write one himself??? Now McCain released his records both medical, school and military service. Even 1.200 pages of medical. Obama submitted a one page letter from his Doctor We have barely a voting record. Mostly he has voted present. The few times he did make a decision was to vote yes to close the session. That's what I'm talking about being manufactured.
-
False comparison. McCain released his 1200 pages for a window of three hours. That's as much time as the American press had to inspect the documents and no copies were allowed. What does this tell us? As for Obama's records, how much is there to say about a fit and healthy 47yo? The difference between the weight of the documents alone tells us a lot. Regarding Obama's school work, who are you going to believe, some decades-old old assignments or your own lyin' eyes and ears? I know a smart person when I hear them. I might also take this opportunity to remind everyone that the election was LAST week! All the scaremongering and conspiracy theories are utterly irrelevant because the people have spoken in the clearest result in 20 years. Those who disapprove of the decision are just going to have to deal with it. Or move to Canada.
-
Bill:
False comparison. McCain released his 1200 pages for a window of three hours. That's as much time as the American press had to inspect the documents and no copies were allowed. What does this tell us? As for Obama's records, how much is there to say about a fit and healthy 47yo? The difference between the weight of the documents alone tells us a lot. Regarding Obama's school work, who are you going to believe, some decades-old old assignments or your own lyin' eyes and ears? I know a smart person when I hear them. I might also take this opportunity to remind everyone that the election was LAST week! All the scaremongering and conspiracy theories are utterly irrelevant because the people have spoken in the clearest result in 20 years. Those who disapprove of the decision are just going to have to deal with it. Or move to Canada.
It wasn't that clear. If there's nothing to hide, just show the darn records!!!
-
Obama polled 52.5% of the popular vote which was the biggest margin on 20 years. In 2004, Bush won 50.73% of the vote. In 2000, Bush won 47.87% of the vote. In 1996, Clinton won 49.23% of the vote. In 1992, Clinton won 43.01% of the vote (you can thank Ross Perot for that one. In 1988, Bush 41 won 53.37% of the vote. Based on my calculations, that was 20 years ago. http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/ It was that clear. Deal with it.