The ..2012.... Political thread
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mustangsally10:
From the Daily Kos ..our own boogie man..the American Right Wing looney. of course, right wing , of course Horrific... the violence loving American right wing http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350721/Girl-9-father-shot-dead-anti-immigrant-vigilantes-begged-life.html#ixzz1CNh8QCxN Why is this not a national story? As Paul would say "You Tell Me" Perhaps so soon after the Tucson shooting people just don't want to read about another one...right wing violence is becoming commonplace in the US. Another child killed
And as it turned out, the kid who did this had leftist views and thought to shoot anyone who does not believe in peace (what a wildly contradictory train of thought)...cut right from the same cloth as any leftist view - "my way or the highway"...and in their view, 'highway' is to afterlife via a bullet. 'You tell me' who's more anti violence - me who only warrants defending our lives or the left who wants to 'eliminate' anyone who does not see things their way? Do you condone the stoning death of the young woman who's sole crime was adultry? Turns out the stoning didn't completely kill her...so they put three bullets in her head because she still barely clung to life after the stoning was completed. So I ask you three questions: 1) Because she committed 'western sins' on the Islamic world, do you see this as our fault for the western influences on middle east ideals? 2) If yes to #1, do you think it was the right punishment? 3) Do you think it's none of our (the US) business because it's not 'our' people? 4) How would you intervene in that situation?
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We must be reading different stories.
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Altanon:
We must be reading different stories.
Oh it's the 'boogie man' dude again - hi
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Btw - here's what triggered the shooting: ?My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!? ? eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before the shooting. Why would such a peace loving group advocate such a shooting?
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I think we should clean up our violent society at home before we go trying to solve other peoples problems. Better gun laws, immigration laws, better mental health care, strengthen our educational system, and try to rid our public airwaves of hate speech advocating violence which induces unstable individuals to violence etc. The boogie man is here. The right wing here is still trying to defuse their culpability in our societies violence by directing attention elsewhere. Pretty weak and desperate and doesn't do anything to solve the problem
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love2travel:
wilhamina:
SurSteven:
And the wars continue...sad, isn't it?
Yes
Unless/until more and more people choose/dare to be the change they want to see in the world.
Wilhamina, I'm with you.... This August over 1,000,000 are going to join forces in meditating for World Peace in Berlin Germany. That's alot of positive energy focused from one place on the Earth. http://www.worldpeacefestival.org/ Holding the belief that it will some day happen, opens the door to the reality... we used to think man could not fly... but a few brave men held the vision and opened that door... Be the Change You Want to See in the World ~ Ghandi http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/Happy_Traveller/Favorite%20Photos/P7310518.jpg Hope to see you all in Berlin
2: I choose LOVE and PEACE !! Let it BE...
Thanks for the worldpeacefestival link love2travel. I can't afford to go there (unless there will be a change for the best in my situation), but I will be there in spirit. Now I am out of here. I said everything I have to say about 'discussions' like those in this thread in an other thread here: http://macca.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2394012&sid=b2b84b86a026e94faa6d7b09ab917596#2394012
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What is actually pretty weak is the extreme left still trying to link the Tucson tragedy to extreme right radiospeak when there is simply no evidence to support that premise. I find it interesting many quote Gandhi in the belief that he achieved the change. The change he truly wanted was one nation (India) with two religions. And that never happened.
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I think Gandhi formulated the way to achieve the change, jaipur. But he couldn't do it all by himself. If we ever want to truly Sing The Changes, more and more of us will have to start being the change we want to see in the world. We can't afford to wait for others to change first.
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My point is although many more people might be the change they want to see, that doesn't mean change will occur the way they want it to, just as in Gandhi's case.
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Time will tell
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wilhamina:
I think Gandhi formulated the way to achieve the change, jaipur. But he couldn't do it all by himself. If we ever want to truly Sing The Changes, more and more of us will have to start being the change we want to see in the world. We can't afford to wait for others to change first.
Which is why 'common ground' is important - good luck with that
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rich n:
SurSteven:
How many people in this 2011 political thread...think that violence in any form...is going to eventually resolve our problems?
Nobody - the problem is you consider defending yourself 'violence'
While I must give ya' two "snaps!" up for that excellent retort, I gotta ask: Please, please, pleeeeeeease tell me that you wouldn't characterize the U.S.' invasion of Iraq as "defending itself," right?
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audi:
rich n:
SurSteven:
How many people in this 2011 political thread...think that violence in any form...is going to eventually resolve our problems?
Nobody - the problem is you consider defending yourself 'violence'
While I must give ya' two "snaps!" up for that excellent retort, I gotta ask: Please, please, pleeeeeeease tell me that you wouldn't characterize the U.S.' invasion of Iraq as "defending itself," right?
Once the battle expanded beyond Afghanistan, things went south (figuratively) and although I supported it at the time, in hindsight Iraq should never have happened (at least when it did). Bush had little global support and the 'weapons of mass destruction' thing ended up playing out like 'if the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit'...I don't dismiss the notion that that Iraq still had these weapons...but the Bush/the US should've done homework so that they didn't end up with the proverbial egg on their face - it looked bad and put us in a negative light globally...it was too hasty
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rich n:
audi:
rich n:
SurSteven:
How many people in this 2011 political thread...think that violence in any form...is going to eventually resolve our problems?
Nobody - the problem is you consider defending yourself 'violence'
While I must give ya' two "snaps!" up for that excellent retort, I gotta ask: Please, please, pleeeeeeease tell me that you wouldn't characterize the U.S.' invasion of Iraq as "defending itself," right?
Once the battle expanded beyond Afghanistan, things went south (figuratively) and although I supported it at the time, in hindsight Iraq should never have happened (at least when it did). Bush had little global support and the 'weapons of mass destruction' thing ended up playing out like 'if the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit'...I don't dismiss the notion that that Iraq still had these weapons...but the Bush/the US should've done homework so that they didn't end up with the proverbial egg on their face - it looked bad and put us in a negative light globally...it was too hasty
That is a highly credible, hindsight explanation. However, many just don't buy it because we are convinced that the invasion of Iraq wasn't really about fighting terrorism.
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audi:
rich n:
audi:
rich n:
SurSteven:
How many people in this 2011 political thread...think that violence in any form...is going to eventually resolve our problems?
Nobody - the problem is you consider defending yourself 'violence'
While I must give ya' two "snaps!" up for that excellent retort, I gotta ask: Please, please, pleeeeeeease tell me that you wouldn't characterize the U.S.' invasion of Iraq as "defending itself," right?
Once the battle expanded beyond Afghanistan, things went south (figuratively) and although I supported it at the time, in hindsight Iraq should never have happened (at least when it did). Bush had little global support and the 'weapons of mass destruction' thing ended up playing out like 'if the glove doesn't fit, you must aquit'...I don't dismiss the notion that that Iraq still had these weapons...but the Bush/the US should've done homework so that they didn't end up with the proverbial egg on their face - it looked bad and put us in a negative light globally...it was too hasty
That is a highly credible, hindsight explanation. However, many just don't buy it because we are convinced that the invasion of Iraq wasn't really about fighting terrorism.
The alternatives to violence and war are many. There have been many conflicts resolved throughout history...upfront...without battles. It's called ... Democracy.
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rich n:
wilhamina:
I think Gandhi formulated the way to achieve the change, jaipur. But he couldn't do it all by himself. If we ever want to truly Sing The Changes, more and more of us will have to start being the change we want to see in the world. We can't afford to wait for others to change first.
Which is why 'common ground' is important - good luck with that
To find common ground we have to respect each other, to truly listen to each other, to try to fully understand each other (even when we ((think we)) don?t agree with each other), instead of just trying to prove we are right and they are wrong, trying to ridicule each other?s arguments and/or personality, trying to blame each other etc. What Gandhi meant (imo) was one can try to be the change one wants to see in this world, by changing oneself. After all one cannot change others, one can only change oneself. But by doing so one may inspire others to change themselves. And perhaps help others to change themselves. Waiting for others to change before we decide to change ourselves, or thinking only others have to change because we are perfect, doesn?t help at all.
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wilhamina:
rich n:
wilhamina:
I think Gandhi formulated the way to achieve the change, jaipur. But he couldn't do it all by himself. If we ever want to truly Sing The Changes, more and more of us will have to start being the change we want to see in the world. We can't afford to wait for others to change first.
Which is why 'common ground' is important - good luck with that
To find common ground we have to respect each other, to truly listen to each other, to try to fully understand each other (even when we ((think we)) don?t agree with each other), instead of just trying to prove we are right and they are wrong, trying to ridicule each other?s arguments and/or personality, trying to blame each other etc. What Gandhi meant (imo) was one can try to be the change one wants to see in this world, by changing oneself. After all one cannot change others, one can only change oneself. But by doing so one may inspire others to change themselves. And perhaps help others to change themselves. Waiting for others to change before we decide to change ourselves, or thinking only others have to change because we are perfect, doesn?t help at all.
wilhamina, I am in total agreement with you on this... I wish that you would be able to make it to Germany as well... I know what you mean about directing your thoughts and that is so much what is needed in this world today!! I loved the poem too!!
I am starting to save up for Germany now!.
You are right, you can only change yourself, and not others....so I wish more people would realize that!!
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Thank God for the Constitution (and thanks Florida)
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rich n:
Thank God for the Constitution...
Pity it's just a relic, nowadays.
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Rhetorical question#1 of the day
With Obamacare taking a blow yesterday in a FL courtroom - let's think hypothetically...you break your leg and you go to the local emergency room. You have no insurance and you don't make enough to pay for major medical expenses. Under the prior system (of Obamacare) and state required insurance, how many here believe the healthcare facility would just throw you out on the street without treating you? And how do you think billing would handle your case if you were treated? Keep in mind that if you're in that type of dire financial situation, you probably don't have a mortgage or own a home (not 100% accurate, but a good rule of thumb)...How do you think they handle this?