The ..2012.... Political thread
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rich n:
Rhetorical question#1 of the day With Obamacare taking a blow yesterday in a FL courtroom - let's think hypothetically...you break your leg and you go to the local emergency room. You have no insurance and you don't make enough to pay for major medical expenses. Under the prior system (of Obamacare) and state required insurance, how many here believe the healthcare facility would just throw you out on the street without treating you? And how do you think billing would handle your case if you were treated? Keep in mind that if you're in that type of dire financial situation, you probably don't have a mortgage or own a home (not 100% accurate, but a good rule of thumb)...How do you think they handle this?
Excellent point. Under the long-time system - pre-Obamacare - was a program (admittedly, little publicized) called Free-Care. Basically, if you didn't have Insurance or Money, you could apply for Free-Care. If it was determined you were, indeed, Indigent, then the Hospital absorbed the cost of the care. (Although, in practice, I'm sure those costs were passed along to Patients who DID have Insurance &/or Money, and likewise, contributed to the High Cost of a stay at the Hospital. You might say, we already sort of had Obamacare, but not quite as bad.
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I think it was called the "uncompesated care pool" way back when. IF the costs were not covered, the billing department just bills you, charges late fees, can sue you. Not sure about "for profit" hospitals that exist in other states. It will take another year before the Supreme Court decides what is what. Until then, it is still law.
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jaipur:
I think it was called the "uncompesated care pool" way back when. IF the costs were not covered, the billing department just bills you, charges late fees, can sue you. Not sure about "for profit" hospitals that exist in other states. It will take another year before the Supreme Court decides what is what. Until then, it is still law.
Right now the vote amongst federal judges is 2-2 in deciding whether this piece of trash is worthy of honoring prior to the appeal at the Supreme Court...so we'll see
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The federal judge in Florida threw out the entire law as being unconstitutional, while the other federal judge stated that only the mandate portion was unconstitutional....the rest of the law was satisfactory. Hospitals and docs are proceeding with the implementation because, as I said, it is law. I was just thinking it would be a hoot to see our own pretty boy Mitt as the republican nominee trying to skate around it in 2012 when it should be coming up in the Supreme Court. Naturally their decision will not be announced until well after the election Stay tuned.....
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obama care is a good thing...it extends care to more working people and prods our economy's more spoiled recipients to suck it up and be more responsible themselves
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why can't everyone pay *something*? Everyone pay say...$5000.00 a year? Now that would be fair.
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SurSteven:
obama care is a good thing...it extends care to more working people and prods our economy's more spoiled recipients to suck it up and be more responsible themselves
The deal is we already had that...there were downfalls for those financially less fortunate in that they couldn't go see a doctor for every broken nail or pinched nerve that came along. But if someone had a serious issue, they were not going to get turned away - regardless. And the ratio of people without insurance and the people without insurance WHO sustained injuries substantial enough to require care is much less than touted to be...thus the amount of money we had to cover for their cost was much less than led to believe.
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Healthcare should be free just like public education. Of course, there are challenges to that: Americans are fatter than ever. Hell, American teenagers are fat as hell, too, these days. With free healthcare should come some personal responsibility. But profit-driven insurance companies are NOT the way we should continue.
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I'm paying enough on my property taxes for the school districts & I don't even have any kids. Health care for free? OMG! What a disaster that would be. I don't like doctors (say) & the guy next door goes for a hangnail. Not fair. And he has 4 kids & is paying the same property taxes that I am.
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audi:
Healthcare should be free just like public education. Of course, there are challenges to that: Americans are fatter than ever. Hell, American teenagers are fat as hell, too, these days. With free healthcare should come some personal responsibility. But profit-driven insurance companies are NOT the way we should continue.
I would agree - but it's doctors, not politicians who are more so put off by such a system. They believe it would put a cap on how much they can profit...if the top doctors couldn't make money here, they would go elsewhere. In my first clinical O/R experience (here in MA), the pt that I had to follow through the entire peri-operative experience was a Canadian from somewhere in the province of Ontario - he was undergoing a procedure called blepharoplasty (basically he wanted the bags removed from under his eyes) and chose to come here because he was not comfortable with the competence level of the doctors in his area...and he cited that in general, that was an issue up there because of the system in place. He could've had the same surgery much cheaper up there.
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Before true Healthcare Reform can happen, the Insurance Companies need to be eliminated from the loop. Insurance COMPANIES exist to make Money. Worse, they get to decide how much Money they are going to make. And ... guess who gets to pay? Now, I once worked for a huge Corporation (Electric Boat, a subsidiary of General Dynamics) that underwrote their own Insurance. It was the best coverage I've ever had. No Deductible. No Co-Pay. 100% coverage. Accident and Sickness. The Works. And ... somehow, General Dynamics hasn't gone broke. Why can't The Government take a similar approach? Not that I particularly want to see The Government get into the Insurance Business, but to leave it in the hands of For-Profit Corporations, that get to decide how big their slice of the pie is going to be, is beyond absurd - it's Insane!
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oobu24:
I'm paying enough on my property taxes for the school districts & I don't even have any kids. Health care for free? OMG! What a disaster that would be. I don't like doctors (say) & the guy next door goes for a hangnail. Not fair. And he has 4 kids & is paying the same property taxes that I am.
Using property taxes to fund schools is another archaic strategy that needs to be revisited. That's why the rich continue to have better schools with better resources than lower-income citizens' kids.
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rich n:
audi:
Healthcare should be free just like public education. Of course, there are challenges to that: Americans are fatter than ever. Hell, American teenagers are fat as hell, too, these days. With free healthcare should come some personal responsibility. But profit-driven insurance companies are NOT the way we should continue.
I would agree - but it's doctors, not politicians who are more so put off by such a system. They believe it would put a cap on how much they can profit...if the top doctors couldn't make money here, they would go elsewhere. In my first clinical O/R experience (here in MA), the pt that I had to follow through the entire peri-operative experience was a Canadian from somewhere in the province of Ontario - he was undergoing a procedure called blepharoplasty (basically he wanted the bags removed from under his eyes) and chose to come here because he was not comfortable with the competence level of the doctors in his area...and he cited that in general, that was an issue up there because of the system in place. He could've had the same surgery much cheaper up there.
That was his choice.
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Altanon:
Before true Healthcare Reform can happen, the Insurance Companies need to be eliminated from the loop. Insurance COMPANIES exist to make Money. Worse, they get to decide how much Money they are going to make. And ... guess who gets to pay? Now, I once worked for a huge Corporation (Electric Boat, a subsidiary of General Dynamics) that underwrote their own Insurance. It was the best coverage I've ever had. No Deductible. No Co-Pay. 100% coverage. Accident and Sickness. The Works. And ... somehow, General Dynamics hasn't gone broke. Why can't The Government take a similar approach? Not that I particularly want to see The Government get into the Insurance Business, but to leave it in the hands of For-Profit Corporations, that get to decide how big their slice of the pie is going to be, is beyond absurd - it's Insane!
Exactly. It is a real crime that the public option -- which would've addressed this very issue -- died a horrible death when the healthcare legislation reached the Senate in '09. Senators are total whores for big business.
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Here is a 'nice' example of what happens when one depends on an insurance company which can only think about money: http://macca.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=79551&sid=ead637169223b16e975aec178c40a972 And I am not saying this can only happen in America. This isn't a solely American problem imo. Money seems to be the most important thing everywhere. As for the doctors: Doesn't the Hippocratic Oath imply to keep the good of the patient as the highest priority? So not money? Or isn't the Hippocratic Oath valuable nowadays?
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audi:
rich n:
audi:
Healthcare should be free just like public education. Of course, there are challenges to that: Americans are fatter than ever. Hell, American teenagers are fat as hell, too, these days. With free healthcare should come some personal responsibility. But profit-driven insurance companies are NOT the way we should continue.
I would agree - but it's doctors, not politicians who are more so put off by such a system. They believe it would put a cap on how much they can profit...if the top doctors couldn't make money here, they would go elsewhere. In my first clinical O/R experience (here in MA), the pt that I had to follow through the entire peri-operative experience was a Canadian from somewhere in the province of Ontario - he was undergoing a procedure called blepharoplasty (basically he wanted the bags removed from under his eyes) and chose to come here because he was not comfortable with the competence level of the doctors in his area...and he cited that in general, that was an issue up there because of the system in place. He could've had the same surgery much cheaper up there.
That was his choice.
A lot of things in life are considered 'choices'...This was perhaps a poor example since the procedure was elective...but change that to joint replacement or some intrinsic heart procedure and he still made the same choice...you would still say it's a 'choice' (and many people make the same choice when the procedure is more urgent)...but why shouldn't we examine the incentives behind the decision? For better or worse, many of the top medical professionals in their field are right here in the US....so folks from other countries to bypass paying lower (or no) fees to obtain the care they can receive here. I live about a half hour from the Mass Eye and Ear hospital and people come from all over the world to seek treatment there. Why would they do that and why would we 'poo poo' that as simply 'their choice' - especially if it may lead to answer that may not seem so popular?
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A fun exercise - try this out:-) http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html
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rich n:
SurSteven:
obama care is a good thing...it extends care to more working people and prods our economy's more spoiled recipients to suck it up and be more responsible themselves
The deal is we already had that...there were downfalls for those financially less fortunate in that they couldn't go see a doctor for every broken nail or pinched nerve that came along. But if someone had a serious issue, they were not going to get turned away - regardless. And the ratio of people without insurance and the people without insurance WHO sustained injuries substantial enough to require care is much less than touted to be...thus the amount of money we had to cover for their cost was much less than led to believe.
I wasn't talking...more so...about poor people
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Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011 Egypt http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/feb/01/egypt/?opinioncartoons
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Andy_Shofar:
Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011 Egypt http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/feb/01/egypt/?opinioncartoons
LIBocracy REPocracy and BEAURocracy You gotta' LOVE... DEMocracy!!!