The ..2012.... Political thread
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Agreed. Separation of church & state is quite explicit. The tricky thing is if you're a voter that wants to cast a vote for a candidate that reflects your values, you want to know that.
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jaipur:
Agreed. Separation of church & state is quite explicit. The tricky thing is if you're a voter that wants to cast a vote for a candidate that reflects your values, you want to know that.
The problem is regardless of whether it's religious values or whatever, people too often apply selective reasoning when selecting a candidate. For example, I have an interest in saving our fish stocks off the NE coast of america. Kerry was very much involved in that fight. Should I vote for him simply based on that when in fact his platform may have no other means of improving my quality of life? And I'm not saying whether he does or doesn't offer anything else - I'm just offering a hypothetical situaton.
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rich n:
jaipur:
Agreed. Separation of church & state is quite explicit. The tricky thing is if you're a voter that wants to cast a vote for a candidate that reflects your values, you want to know that.
The problem is regardless of whether it's religious values or whatever, people too often apply selective reasoning when selecting a candidate. For example, I have an interest in saving our fish stocks off the NE coast of america. Kerry was very much involved in that fight. Should I vote for him simply based on that when in fact his platform may have no other means of improving my quality of life? And I'm not saying whether he does or doesn't offer anything else - I'm just offering a hypothetical situaton.
yup, rich, it is a dilemma that just boosts the complexity another 10000x.
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I heard Larry this morning on the radio read the following article, his article - I was impressed: The Case for McCain He?s resilient. He?s consistent. He has backbone. And he?s gonna win. By Larry Kudlow February 8, 2008 5:09 PM Some things in life are quite simple. Here?s one of them: Sen. John McCain is going to be our next president. How do I know? For starters, McCain will have a unified Republican party ? conservatives and all ? working hard for him. He?s also going to win over the Reagan Democrats, the Bush Democrats, and the Perot independents. These folks demand a strong military, want government off their backs, and are sick and tired of growing federal deficits and out-of-control spending. McCain?s their man. If you recall, it was the cross-over Democrats and independents who helped elect Ronald Reagan twice and put Papa Bush in office for what was expected to be a Reagan third-term. When Papa Bush waffled, they went to Perot. But they came back to support the Gingrich Congress and later stayed with George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004. In 2006 they walked away again, penalizing a GOP Congress that embraced heavy spending and corrupt earmarks. But now they?ll come back. McCain is tailor-made for this group. Just think of McCain in a debate versus Hillary or Obama. Remember McCain?s zinger about Hillary?s $1,000,000 earmark for a Woodstock Hall of Fame museum? He said he didn?t know much about Woodstock because he was ?tied up at the time.? It was a killer line and we?ll hear it again. McCain is also good news for business and the stock market. He wants to cut the corporate tax and keep dividend and cap-gains tax rates low. He?s tough as nails on restraining government spending and blowing up earmarks. On top of all this, he?s a very strong free trader who knows America can compete with the rest of the world. Stock market fears about a new wave of tax hikes should be put aside. It ain?t gonna happen after McCain is sworn in. Neither will protectionism. So far as I can tell, high taxes and diminished free trade are the biggest worries for business and stocks. Investors can cast their fears aside. This also happens to be a good time for the GOP to nominate someone who served bravely and courageously in the military. McCain is much more than a POW who somehow survived the Hanoi Hilton. He is a true military man. It flows through his veins, posing a whopper of a problem for Hillary or Obama. Guaranteed, there will be no chicken-hawk taunts. And let?s not forget that military leaders who know all about war, security, and defense are exactly the people who cherish peace the most. When John McCain talks about the global terror war and how to deal with it, and how to protect this country, and how to move toward peace, voters will listen. So will folks around the world. This is all part of McCain?s character. A short while back, I heard former Bush chief of staff Andy Card give an engaging talk at an Awakening conference in Sea Island Georgia. Card asked: What?s the most important character trait for a successful president? And he answered: The courage to be lonely. In other words, the guts to make tough decisions. Not poll-driven, politically driven, or selfish decisions, but decisions made on the basis of what is right and what is wrong and what is best for America. McCain is no flip-flopper. Just think about his stance against ethanol subsidies in Iowa and federal hurricane insurance in Florida. (And Florida?s Gov. Crist still supported him!) Think of his duty-honor-loyalty persona, to borrow from my friend Kim Strassel of the Wall Street Journal. Duty-honor-loyalty is part of the American military code of conduct. In this most important sense, McCain is a profoundly conservative man. When he makes a promise, he keeps it. And don?t forget his resiliency, consistency, and backbone. Here was a man moving around the country, without money and resources. He remained resolute on winning in Iraq, on the surge, and on the need to prevail abroad if we are to remain safe at home. Democrats were talking defeat. Republicans were hardly talking at all. But McCain soldiered on. Armed with courage, strength, and character, he kept his eyes on the prize. This may be the greatest political comeback in presidential history. One of the troubles with American politics nowadays is that we don?t appreciate our military men and women enough. We don?t value their intelligence, their fitness, or their values. There was a time in American history ? especially in the 19th century ? when we held the military in great esteem. George Washington, of course, was one of our bravest generals, blessed with uncommon character and strength. Well, John McCain is a descendant of George Washington, and is a foot solder in his army. America yearns for exactly that kind of foot soldier. That?s why he?s gonna win. ? Larry Kudlow, NRO?s Economics Editor, is host of CNBC?s Kudlow & Company and author of the daily web blog, Kudlow?s Money Politic$. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTg3Njc5OWFjYzMyNjUyNjBlMWMwNmJiOGIwYTk1YTc=
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Thanks for posting that Andy......I sure hope he's right. I do see more and more Republicans turning to McCain.....hopefully it will be enough. He's my man!
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He is - I think the first conservative host on WABC to be very positive about McCain. btw - Don Imus doesn't count cause he more moderate if not semi-liberal.
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Tell me again how this works? Cutting taxes I can understand. If you do not cut spending, you will produce deficits. The deficits came under W's watch. They were fixed under Clinton...the other one How does McCain propose he will cut "pork barrel " spending as he says? Presidents do not have a line item veto.
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rich n:
jaipur:
Agreed. Separation of church & state is quite explicit. The tricky thing is if you're a voter that wants to cast a vote for a candidate that reflects your values, you want to know that.
The problem is regardless of whether it's religious values or whatever, people too often apply selective reasoning when selecting a candidate. For example, I have an interest in saving our fish stocks off the NE coast of america. Kerry was very much involved in that fight. Should I vote for him simply based on that when in fact his platform may have no other means of improving my quality of life? And I'm not saying whether he does or doesn't offer anything else - I'm just offering a hypothetical situaton.
If it were me, I probably wouldn't. Voters speak. Whatever mechanism they choose to do that doesn't weigh into it.
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We had the caucus today here in Washington(state)...I went for the first time..very interesting process......Barack Obama has won the democratic side(67%) Clinton 32%......republican side McCain 27%,Huckabee 26%.........
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Crap!!!! Barrack the drug abusin canadate and were not takin a joint either....
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keithmestl:
Bill:
Romney's pretext for withdrawal simply proves why he was never fit for the job. He actually had a chance for the nomination because he was the go-to candidate for all the right wing lock-steppers who couldn't stand McCain's annoying habit of weighing issues on their merit. But now, the man who claimed his sons were serving their country just as much as soldiers in Iraq just because they were campaigning for him, is claiming that he is supporting the war effort by removing himself? That's the most pathetic thing I've heard all year. Want to know what you really did, Mittens? Three little words: Cut and run!
=sophistry.
Me or him?
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harleyblues:
Crap!!!! Barrack the drug abusin canadate and were not takin a joint either....
So you mean coke? How do you explain Bush then?
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Here is John McCain singing his favorite Beach Boys song: Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran
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Hi Vivien.......not another warmonger on the way ? The future of the world may depend on you all voting for a DECENT president....one with a little common sense, compassion and give us hope.......i will not hold my breath. (plus whoever gets in is only a puppet of big buisness, and men higher up....bush is evidence of this....that man isnt even in charge of his own bowels , let alone the world)
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Hi Chris...Hope you are well...yes, McCain is a warmonger. Here is a copy of the Baltimore Suns endorsement of Obama today. In the last paragraph they endorse McCain as he is the best repub candidate (which is saying zip as they have nothing) and they mention his warmongering ways. There are also audio clips available on the site so that you can hear McCain verify that fact in his own words Sun endorsement: Betting on change, reform February 10, 2008 George W. Bush's presidency can't end soon enough. Many Americans are fatigued by the state of the nation: a relentless war in Iraq, a bottomless deficit, the bruising mortgage crisis and the United States' flagging image abroad. So it is not hard to be energized by the prospects for a successor. When Marylanders vote in Tuesday's presidential primary, both Democratic choices are promising a new political era for this century, and each has the intellect and the skills to deliver. Hillary Clinton, with her years in Washington and most recently in the Senate representing New York, brings rich experience. She is tough and keenly focused, pragmatic and driven. But Barack Obama, her Senate colleague from Illinois, offers a more compelling vision for the country that he would lead. He wants to forge a new reality in Washington where consensus replaces confrontation. And he has shown a remarkable ability to enroll a diverse array of Americans in his cause, convincing a new generation that it too has a stake in Washington. That's why The Sun strongly endorses Mr. Obama as the Democratic nominee for president. When Mr. Obama promises change, surprising numbers find the pledge credible. Despite his few years in the Senate, Mr. Obama exudes confidence and assesses the nation's problems with a fresh eye. When questioned by us on a number of tough issues, he showed a sophisticated understanding of them. His opposition to the war has been steady, and while committed to an early withdrawal from Iraq, Mr. Obama recognizes the challenges to that course. Asked how the troubled No Child Left Behind education program might be salvaged, Mr. Obama said achievement testing should not be abandoned but rather complemented with other measures of progress and more aid for schools. As the first African-American president, he would deliver on America's promise that there is no barrier to success. Mr. Obama is a powerfully inspirational speaker, engaging listeners with energy and warmth as he describes his goals. That's the essence of leadership. His conversations feel more heartfelt than calculating, which reminds us of President John F. Kennedy. Untested in foreign affairs, Mr. Obama is not afraid to disagree with popular opinion, favoring dialog with Cuba, Iran and other hostile powers, for instance. But he still has lots to tell America about how he would govern and whom he would rely on to help him lead. His promises to work across party lines may favor hope over reality, and the same might be said of his plans to reach out around the world. Mrs. Clinton told us she would be "ready on Day One" to lead decisively, and indeed, her experience is one of her most appealing attributes. But her years of sparring with conservative adversaries have left her bruised and unpopular with many Americans. Mr. Obama is more likely to turn the page to a new era and deliver real change that is urgently needed to deal with the nation's economic, social and political problems. In the Republican primary, John McCain is our choice. The veteran Arizona senator whose political obituary had been all but written has risen like a phoenix to presumptive nominee status. He has stood his ground on tough issues such as immigration reform, campaign finance and torture, and we praised him for it. He is principled and has been willing to compromise. But his recent overtures to his party's conservative wing could undercut his appeal to independents. And Mr. McCain's passionate support of the Iraq war deeply concerns us. Despite the war's $10 billion monthly drain on the Treasury -- money urgently needed for domestic priorities -- he says he is willing to keep American troops in Iraq indefinitely. More articles Copyright 2008, The Baltimore Sun Peace
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I hope Obama does it, i really do.......the madness must end soon. This is the only way forward QUOTE Untested in foreign affairs, Mr. Obama is not afraid to disagree with popular opinion, favoring dialog with Cuba, Iran and other hostile powers, for instance. But he still has lots to tell America about how he would govern and whom he would rely on to help him lead. His promises to work across party lines may favor hope over reality, and the same might be said of his plans to reach out around the world. After 9/11 most of the world was behind the US, that cannot be said now. The US and the UK both need to address our foreign policies....including Isreal. Do people in the US actually oppose Cuba ?
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I don't know if this was addressed yet in the thread, but apparently Bush calls McCain a "true conservative". Hearing that from Bush, it kind of scares me honestly. Do we want another Bush in the office? Anyway, I would seriously laugh if an underdog such as Huckabee won. Some people would move out of the country, but hey thats more opportunities for me! And since most think that clinton or obama will win, wouldn't it be a surprise if neither won...those would be 'strange days indeed!'
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Yellow_Submarine_Sandwich:
. Do we want another Bush in the office?
NO.......NEVER
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I don't come to this thread to discuss. Nor to teach or whatever... just to learn. It seems like Obama is now ahead of Hillary... and people says (people says...) kind like Obama is something else... that has differents ideas, etc. What are they? I guess I can look at his web page or so. I just like to know kind of objectively what is that "difference" or that "change" really, with no offense to Obama, Hillary, Republicans or any other candidate.
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The Change they want to make is to have their face as the new President of the US