The ..2012.... Political thread
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Wikileaks - Obama will sign an agreement to share all of Britain's nuclear secrets with Russia...ROLF, I told you so...that's your 2009 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for you
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: amazing how some on here will make outrageous statements without sourcing anything...just making stuff up Well lots of things have been made up including Reagans legacy that is what republicans do...here is the truth re Reagan's legacy... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2011/02/04/ST2011020403674.html?hpid=topnews 5 myths of Reagan's legacy... 1. Reagan was one of our most popular presidents. 2. Reagan was a tax-cutter. 3. Reagan was a hawk. 4. Reagan shrank the federal government. 5. Reagan was a conservative culture warrior. truth is they have no heros so they make them up
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Sorry - I forgot to link the source (you're so right:-))...since a simple google search brought up a hit on just about every major news agency, I'll just supply the link to the very first one (they all have the same story) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8304654/WikiLeaks-cables-US-agrees-to-tell-Russia-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html
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Well, I think the less nuclear 'secrets' the better...they should all be contained and then destroyed if a way can be found to do that
: But, the Reagan myths need to be debunked he probably wouldn't even get the repub nomination today
Well lots of things have been made up including Reagans legacy that is what republicans do...here is the truth re Reagan's legacy... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2011/02/04/ST2011020403674.html?hpid=topnews 5 myths of Reagan's legacy... 1. Reagan was one of our most popular presidents. 2. Reagan was a tax-cutter. 3. Reagan was a hawk. 4. Reagan shrank the federal government. 5. Reagan was a conservative culture warrior. truth is they have no heros so they make them up, repubs live in la la land
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10 Things Conservatives Don?t Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan See citations in text here: http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/05/reagan-centennial/ Tomorrow will mark the 100th anniversary of President Reagan?s birth, and all week, conservatives have been trying to outdo each others? remembrances of the great conservative icon. Senate Republicans spent much of Thursday singing Reagan?s praise from the Senate floor, while conservative publications have been running non-stop commemorations. Meanwhile the Republican National Committee and former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich are hoping to make few bucks off the Gipper?s centennial. But Reagan was not the man conservatives claim he was. This image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to untie the various factions of the right behind a common leader. In reality, Reagan was no conservative ideologue or flawless commander-in-chief. Reagan regularly strayed from conservative dogma ? he raised taxes eleven times as president while tripling the deficit ? and he often ended up on the wrong side of history, like when he vetoed an Anti-Apartheid bill. ThinkProgress has compiled a list of the top 10 things conservatives rarely mention when talking about President Reagan: 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan ?signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.? Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan ?raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,? including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan ?a dear friend,? told NPR, ?Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration ? I was there.? ?Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,? said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan?s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is ?false mythology,? Brinkley said. 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, ?roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.? Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control. 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan?s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. ?Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,? the New York Times? David Leonhardt noted. 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised ?to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,? but federal spending ?ballooned? under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest ? the Department of Veterans? Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war. 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman?s right to chose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state?s abortion laws that ?resulted in more than a million abortions.? When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he ?never seriously pursued? curbing choice. 6. Reagan was a ?bellicose peacenik.? He wrote in his memoirs that ?[m]y dream?became a world free of nuclear weapons.? ?This vision stemmed from the president?s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war ? and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,? the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan?s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but ?also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control? for the the entire world ? a vision acted out by Regean?s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president. 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives. 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua ? something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign. 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan?s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying ?I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,? saying that the law ?will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.? 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden ? a prominent mujahidin commander ? emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services? close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan?s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden?s ascendency. Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don?t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, ?Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes??
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Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
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audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
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rich n:
audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
If the agreement with Britain is accurate, then -- to me -- that is typical, hypocritical U.S. tactics. What gets me about so-called conservatives is that you guys rarely address hard-core facts that are presented before you. It's baffling that Reagan gets a metaphoriacal blow-job from all the Republican talking heads --- and, yet, look at those reckless facts about his Presidency.
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audi:
rich n:
audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
If the agreement with Britaain is accurate, then -- to me -- that is typical, hypocritical U.S. tactics. What gets me about so-called conservatives is that you guys rarely address hard-core facts that are presented before you. It's baffling that Reagan gets a metaphoriacal blow-job from all the Republican talking heads --- and, yet, look at those reckless facts about his Presidency.
You also didn't see 'me' jump on the bandwagon of 'Reagan is holier than thou' either
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rich n:
audi:
rich n:
audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
If the agreement with Britaain is accurate, then -- to me -- that is typical, hypocritical U.S. tactics. What gets me about so-called conservatives is that you guys rarely address hard-core facts that are presented before you. It's baffling that Reagan gets a metaphoriacal blow-job from all the Republican talking heads --- and, yet, look at those reckless facts about his Presidency.
You also didn't see 'me' jump on the bandwagon of 'Reagan is holier than thou' either
How could you with those alarming statistics?
Still, you give me hope, Rich.
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rich n:
audi:
rich n:
audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
If the agreement with Britaain is accurate, then -- to me -- that is typical, hypocritical U.S. tactics. What gets me about so-called conservatives is that you guys rarely address hard-core facts that are presented before you. It's baffling that Reagan gets a metaphoriacal blow-job from all the Republican talking heads --- and, yet, look at those reckless facts about his Presidency.
You also didn't see 'me' jump on the bandwagon of 'Reagan is holier than thou' either
No, because you're a Palin fan...you sure jumped on her bandwagon..she's so far to the right of Reagan she jumped off a cliff
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peacetrain:
10 Things Conservatives Don?t Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan See citations in text here: http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/05/reagan-centennial/ Tomorrow will mark the 100th anniversary of President Reagan?s birth, and all week, conservatives have been trying to outdo each others? remembrances of the great conservative icon. Senate Republicans spent much of Thursday singing Reagan?s praise from the Senate floor, while conservative publications have been running non-stop commemorations. Meanwhile the Republican National Committee and former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich are hoping to make few bucks off the Gipper?s centennial. But Reagan was not the man conservatives claim he was. This image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to untie the various factions of the right behind a common leader. In reality, Reagan was no conservative ideologue or flawless commander-in-chief. Reagan regularly strayed from conservative dogma ? he raised taxes eleven times as president while tripling the deficit ? and he often ended up on the wrong side of history, like when he vetoed an Anti-Apartheid bill. ThinkProgress has compiled a list of the top 10 things conservatives rarely mention when talking about President Reagan: 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan ?signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.? Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan ?raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,? including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan ?a dear friend,? told NPR, ?Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration ? I was there.? ?Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,? said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan?s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is ?false mythology,? Brinkley said. 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, ?roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.? Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control. 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan?s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. ?Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,? the New York Times? David Leonhardt noted. 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised ?to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,? but federal spending ?ballooned? under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest ? the Department of Veterans? Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war. 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman?s right to chose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state?s abortion laws that ?resulted in more than a million abortions.? When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he ?never seriously pursued? curbing choice. 6. Reagan was a ?bellicose peacenik.? He wrote in his memoirs that ?[m]y dream?became a world free of nuclear weapons.? ?This vision stemmed from the president?s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war ? and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,? the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan?s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but ?also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control? for the the entire world ? a vision acted out by Regean?s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president. 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives. 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua ? something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign. 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan?s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying ?I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,? saying that the law ?will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.? 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden ? a prominent mujahidin commander ? emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services? close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan?s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden?s ascendency. Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don?t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, ?Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes??
excellent post peacetrain, I like your list much better than mine. Because many of the republican base get their 'news' from the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Palin and Faux News they live in an alternate universe They're manipulated by the corporatists like sheep....and they are dangerous. That much ignorance is always dangerous.
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It is interesting to read views of those that weren't there at the times they actually occurred.
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jaipur:
It is interesting to read views of those that weren't there at the times they actually occurred.
You're not alone...they read your posts as well.
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mustangsally10:
rich n:
audi:
rich n:
audi:
Those irrefutable facts mean nothing to conservatives.
The funny thing is I'm actually more or less in the center and see a lot of fault on both sides of the isle...but to the extremist on the left, I appear to be as hard core 'right' as they get...and I'm not sure how slinging mud at Reagan disputes the news I posted (and the Reagan stuff was indeed some type of retaliatory lob in response to my Obama sharing British nuclear secrets with Russia)
If the agreement with Britaain is accurate, then -- to me -- that is typical, hypocritical U.S. tactics. What gets me about so-called conservatives is that you guys rarely address hard-core facts that are presented before you. It's baffling that Reagan gets a metaphoriacal blow-job from all the Republican talking heads --- and, yet, look at those reckless facts about his Presidency.
You also didn't see 'me' jump on the bandwagon of 'Reagan is holier than thou' either
No, because you're a Palin fan...you sure jumped on her bandwagon..she's so far to the right of Reagan she jumped off a cliff
LOL - back at ya, buddy...During the entire Gabby Gifford incident, I clearly stated that I would not want that looney ball as my president...BUT the reaction of the left to start pointing fingers and basically accuse someone of murder was far worse...especially when they play the same 'violent rhetoric' game...the worst thing I blame Palin for (in the whole Gabby Giffords thing) is stealing the idea of that chart from the extremist left and the chart that the Daily KOS created.... If you want to simply discuss her political/presidential qualifications - I personally would want a president who: 1) knows that Africa is a continent comprised of a number of countries, not a country unto itself 2) Knows the countries which make up the NAFTA 3) Understands that you can't see any part of the former Soviet Union from her home state, let alone Russia (Cuba is closer to the FL Keys than any part of the former Soviet Union is and you can't see Cuba from any part of the overseas highway) But that's not what we're discussing when YOU accuse her of murder - YOU crossed that line...
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PS - along with that list of goodies I posted above of basic knowledge items I believe a qualified presidential candidate should possess, add knowing how many states we have in the United States to that list - since the guy currently in office seems to have a problem with that.
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Haha republican heads exploding ... Poor Sarah...she was accused of using inflammatory rhetoric (which she did) as do most of the right wing leaders Beck, Limbaugh, OReilly etc. Perhaps the right wingers don't really notice it anymore it's so prevalent. But, defending that rhetoric wow...stunning
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mustangsally10:
Haha republican heads exploding ... Poor Sarah...she was accused of using inflammatory rhetoric (which she did) as do most of the right wing leaders Beck, Limbaugh, OReilly etc. Perhaps the right wingers don't really notice it anymore it's so prevalent. But, defending that rhetoric wow...stunning
LOL - exploding heads
You're like a...umm...an extreme left democrat...it's called toying with you...I'm willing to bet you're a 'truther' too
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Can anyone name the names of all of the men who signed the constitution? ...and also, their wive's names? The Constitution was designed to cover all men and all women...and everyone equally. That's the important thing. Would you have it any other way?
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jaipur:
It is interesting to read views of those that weren't there at the times they actually occurred.
I wasn't around when the Holocaust happened either. Your point?