Newly discovered Beatles conversation tape Sept 8, 1969
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Mark Lewisohn reveals a taped conversation made for Ringo by John, Paul and George on Sept 8, 1969 that reveals they had plans to do another album after Abbey Road.
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And songs written only by Paul or John would be credited only to them individually - finally! I always thought how ridiculous it was that Give Peace A Chance was credited as Lennon/McCartney!
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John's Chirstmas single contribution for the Beatles was of course going to be Cold Turkey...at least turkey would be quite appropriate for Christmas Day. Cranberry sauce anyone?
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I'd really need to hear the actual tape to get the context of this. (Not sure how he got a hold of it or why he won't release it). But while the tape may be new, I don't think the information changes very much. It's always been the story that Abbey Road wasn't necessarily the end. They were just generally talking about what things would be like if they continued, and then John said he was quitting two weeks later. I'm not sure how this "changes everything" about how we knew it.
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Johnny A wrote:
I'd really need to hear the actual tape to get the context of this. (Not sure how he got a hold of it or why he won't release it). But while the tape may be new, I don't think the information changes very much. It's always been the story that Abbey Road wasn't necessarily the end. They were just generally talking about what things would be like if they continued, and then John said he was quitting two weeks later. I'm not sure how this "changes everything" about how we knew it.
It changes everything for me! Always heard that “they knew” Abbey Road was going to be their last album. I think if we were able to go hear Mark’s talk about all this that he is doing starting Sept. 18th (until Dec. 4th) he would play parts of the tape during the presentation and put it all into context. At the Fest For Beatles Fans last month in Chicago, I saw him do a 2-part presentation on the White Album and what was happening during the days/months they were recording it. Fascinating stuff!
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joyce wrote:
Mark Lewisohn reveals a taped conversation made for Ringo by John, Paul and George on Sept 8, 1969 that reveals they had plans to do another album after Abbey Road.
I recall reading that George once said that he always assumed they would make another album, that he didn't think "Abbey Road" was the end.
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Johnny A wrote:
I'd really need to hear the actual tape to get the context of this. (Not sure how he got a hold of it or why he won't release it). But while the tape may be new, I don't think the information changes very much. It's always been the story that Abbey Road wasn't necessarily the end. They were just generally talking about what things would be like if they continued, and then John said he was quitting two weeks later. I'm not sure how this "changes everything" about how we knew it.
...and that John said he, Paul and George should each get four songs....separate writing credits after the"Maxwell's Silver Hammer" fiasco... Paul's song that the others hated and said should have been given to Mary Hopkin to record, but then Paul said George's songs weren't that good until "Abbey Road." George fired back....that's a matter of taste. Plenty of people have liked my songs. Ringo would get two songs if he wanted. I guess George was correct. He had plenty of good songs in the wings....much better than Paul's first offerings after the breakup. George's "All Things Must Pass" is vastly superior to Paul's initial offerings. It would take Paul years to get it together. George has the two best songs on "Abbey Road"....to me.
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Turns out Abbey Road and Let It Be weren't meant to be the last albums the Beatles recorded
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In interviews at the time and ever since, I don't think anyone said they "knew" Abbey Road was the end, but it was obvious that things were fracturing. At the time of this meeting, Klein was negotiating a new deal fwith EMI or them. So things weren't over yet. But this is where we'd really need to hear the tape to get the context. It seems like it could have been another 3 on 1 thing like with the Klein situation. It sounds like John and George were telling Paul he was only going to get four songs if they were going to continue and that they all hated Maxwell, etc. Would like to know if Paul's comment about George's songs came in response to this or not.
Regardless, I cannot imagine John would ever have stayed in the group if it meant that he would get less than a third of the songs. It really sounds like putting Paul in his place to me. And we know that two weeks later, there was a meeting where Paul was throwing out ideas as to what to do next. John shot them all down and announced he was quitting.
So while this tape should be interesting, it just doesn't seem to change the overall story to me. Things were falling apart, they agreed to work together like a group again for Abbey Road, and then things fell apart completely after that.
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Awww I wish they did that other album.
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Johnny A wrote:
In interviews at the time and ever since, I don't think anyone said they "knew" Abbey Road was the end, but it was obvious that things were fracturing. At the time of this meeting, Klein was negotiating a new deal fwith EMI or them. So things weren't over yet. But this is where we'd really need to hear the tape to get the context. It seems like it could have been another 3 on 1 thing like with the Klein situation. It sounds like John and George were telling Paul he was only going to get four songs if they were going to continue and that they all hated Maxwell, etc. Would like to know if Paul's comment about George's songs came in response to this or not.
Regardless, I cannot imagine John would ever have stayed in the group if it meant that he would get less than a third of the songs. It really sounds like putting Paul in his place to me. And we know that two weeks later, there was a meeting where Paul was throwing out ideas as to what to do next. John shot them all down and announced he was quitting.
So while this tape should be interesting, it just doesn't seem to change the overall story to me. Things were falling apart, they agreed to work together like a group again for Abbey Road, and then things fell apart completely after that.
But the tape was recorded Sept. 8, 1969 after they were done with Abbey Road. That is why it is significant. Yes, then after that, later in Sept. John said “I want a divorce.”
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love2travel wrote:
Awww I wish they did that other album.
We can all create that other album? Here's mine with contributions slimmed down a bit from what John was suggesting to fit on a single album. So here was the Beatles end of year album to follow up Let It Be.
'Working Class Heroes' - The Beatles. Released Apple Records December 1970.
Side: 1. What Is Life (G), Instant Karma (J), Maybe I'm Amazed (P), Mother (J), Beaucoups Of Blues (R), Isn't It A Pity (G).
Side: 2. Every Night (P), My Sweet Lord (G), Man We Was Lonely (P), Cold Turkey (J), Junk (P) Working Class Hero (J).
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Kestrel wrote:
love2travel wrote:
Awww I wish they did that other album.
We can all create that other album? Here's mine with contributions slimmed down a bit from what John was suggesting to fit on a single album. So here was the Beatles end of year album to follow up Let It Be.
'Working Class Heroes' - The Beatles. Released Apple Records December 1970.
Side: 1. What Is Life (G), Instant Karma (J), Maybe I'm Amazed (P), Mother (J), Beaucoups Of Blues (R), Isn't It A Pity (G).
Side: 2. Every Night (P), My Sweet Lord (G), Man We Was Lonely (P), Cold Turkey (J), Junk (P) Working Class Hero (J).
Good choices.
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tKestrel wrote:
love2travel wrote:
Awww I wish they did that other album.
We can all create that other album? Here's mine with contributions slimmed down a bit from what John was suggesting to fit on a single album. So here was the Beatles end of year album to follow up Let It Be.
'Working Class Heroes' - The Beatles. Released Apple Records December 1970.
Side: 1. What Is Life (G), Instant Karma (J), Maybe I'm Amazed (P), Mother (J), Beaucoups Of Blues (R), Isn't It A Pity (G).
Side: 2. Every Night (P), My Sweet Lord (G), Man We Was Lonely (P), Cold Turkey (J), Junk (P) Working Class Hero (J).
Would have been a #1 album!
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Kestrel wrote:
love2travel wrote:
Awww I wish they did that other album.
We can all create that other album? Here's mine with contributions slimmed down a bit from what John was suggesting to fit on a single album. So here was the Beatles end of year album to follow up Let It Be.
'Working Class Heroes' - The Beatles. Released Apple Records December 1970.
Side: 1. What Is Life (G), Instant Karma (J), Maybe I'm Amazed (P), Mother (J), Beaucoups Of Blues (R), Isn't It A Pity (G).
Side: 2. Every Night (P), My Sweet Lord (G), Man We Was Lonely (P), Cold Turkey (J), Junk (P) Working Class Hero (J).
I could never listen to "Mother" all the way through or "Cold Turkey." And still never do.... John's tortuous screams isn't my cup of tea. Those songs would just not have worked as Beatles' songs. Maybe....."Working Class Hero" even with the f-word would be fine and maybe "Love" and "Look At Me"...but then John would not have been into scream therapy, so those songs may never have come about....same for Paul's home recordings at his farm in Scotland. "Junk" would have....they had worked on it a bit...and maybe Paul would have developed "Teddy Boys" a bit more. We know for sure George had "All Things Must Pass" ready. That could have...and should have been....a Beatles song on "Abbey Road" instead of "Maxwell's..." if Paul would have budged, and maybe "Sour Milk Sea"..they had worked on that to some extent. But.....we can only speculate. It is fun to create...the next Beatles Album. I do it quite often to amuse myself. I dip over into John's "Imagine" album and Paul's "Ram" to come up with songs for them.
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This isn't new info, as this was in another Beatles book back in the late 70's about this meeting, and the 4 songs each. I am more curious about how this info was obtained. Did Ringo leak it? Were they talking near live mics that were being recorded and an engineer leaked it? Thats more appealing to me.
Without hearing the tone and context its hard to decipher how this was discussed. Tongue in cheek? With a laugh? 100% serious?? With enthusiasm? Was Paul on the defensive??
One thing I find funny is John stating to Paul he doesn't really think Paul himself likes the Maxwell Silver......Paul has never performed it live LOL. Vocally, it shouldnt be too difficult either. Makes you wonder if John was on to something.
