The ..2012.... Political thread
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Coakley concedes....America wins
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Yes he did. Not sure if America wins though. It was only a year or so ago that individuals threw out this same party that won the election....hmmm.
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jaipur:
Yes he did. Not sure if America wins though. It was only a year or so ago that individuals threw out this same party that won the election....hmmm.
I've always felt that a year ago from last November was just a not very well thought out, knee jerk response to a general dissatisfaction towards George Bush...Just as long as he was gone, everything was ok - right??? If you promise the world and can't come though...
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(processing my thoughts...) Talk about a major upset. Well, the obstructionists prevail. Insurance companies will continue to deny people coverage simply because of pre-existing conditions. 60% of all U.S. bankruptcies will continue to be due to outrageous healthcare costs -- and 80% of them HAD INSURANCE! 45,000 Americans will die annually because they can't get healthcare. God bless America -- this so-called compassionate, Christian nation. Our only hope is passing a bill via Reconciliation -- which requires only 51 votes and would result in a far more liberal bill than what the Senate passed. Maybe this is our blessing in disguise.
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rich n:
jaipur:
Yes he did. Not sure if America wins though. It was only a year or so ago that individuals threw out this same party that won the election....hmmm.
I've always felt that a year ago from last November was just a not very well thought out, knee jerk response to a general dissatisfaction towards George Bush...Just as long as he was gone, everything was ok - right??? If you promise the world and can't come though...
Reagan did not "come through" with everything in just a year....perhaps I'm just an old geezer, I did not expect Obama to "walk on water" and accomplish everything in a year. Frankly, I do think that Brown is riding the wave, though I do not think he has much to offer except a truck I still don't get the thing about jobs: republicans have always stood behind the notion that the private sector creates jobs (true, I do believe), yet the push on Brown was about jobs?? Huh?? Then again Clinton did his some of his best stuff with a republican congress. Eliminating Glass Stegall wasn't one of them He's got two years to walk on water...what's your take??
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90% of getting any job done is showing up.. Maybe someone should tell Obama that. I understand this will upset the health care bill but that bill was junk.. I personally em not for a bill forcing us to pay for insurances to a broken system and or be taxed.. To force young people to have to be insured when there not using the system and pay for 4 years before we get change. this bill was so pro insurance that their stocks sored. Why can't simple change like the anti trust laws be enacted right now.. Why can't simple laws like you sell insurance to someone it got to cover catastrophic care and you can't cancel it for any reason except lack payment and if somene get ill they can't jack there rates up. why force us to pay taxes on our health care but than exclude all the govrment and union employees from paying.. Why well let me tell you why. because the government pays outrageous money to the HCI industry and they don't want YOU to know it. If you had full coverage with dental etc and pay for it out of pocket and lets say 50 years old you would be paying most likely about 1200+ mth for it. Now if you had to pay taxes at I believe 50%, that would be huge. I don't get to write off my health care bill dollar for dollar and that what kind of laws should be happening not taxes us. It should be the people paying get to write it off there taxes 100% those who get it given should have to pay taxes it the same as income. this health care bill was junk and it was junk on purpose because the insurance company is paying off the politicization and they just wanted a excuse to collect it by killing the bill and looking like they tried.. Have you send you senator a email today.. I have warning them that what happen in Mass will happen to them next.. It out with the old in with the new. I glad this guys only got 3 years and it election time again.. Time enough to see if it will be politics as usual or if he can think for himself. I say vote them all out than watch and vote those guys out if they don't get it.. We want honest people making choice for the masses not the rich.
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jaipur:
rich n:
jaipur:
Yes he did. Not sure if America wins though. It was only a year or so ago that individuals threw out this same party that won the election....hmmm.
I've always felt that a year ago from last November was just a not very well thought out, knee jerk response to a general dissatisfaction towards George Bush...Just as long as he was gone, everything was ok - right??? If you promise the world and can't come though...
Reagan did not "come through" with everything in just a year....perhaps I'm just an old geezer, I did not expect Obama to "walk on water" and accomplish everything in a year. Frankly, I do think that Brown is riding the wave, though I do not think he has much to offer except a truck I still don't get the thing about jobs: republicans have always stood behind the notion that the private sector creates jobs (true, I do believe), yet the push on Brown was about jobs?? Huh?? Then again Clinton did his some of his best stuff with a republican congress. Eliminating Glass Stegall wasn't one of them He's got two years to walk on water...what's your take??
I think Bill Clinton is setting his eyes on running against Obama.. People see Obama as a great speaker and good man..But he either out of his league or he the great pretender. What going on in office would of happen no matter who got in.. These banks run are country and we have one thing to make real change our vote. but what has happen is so outrageous and than they can't get health care passed something that all american want. I just came back from Cabo Mex for 2 weeks.. Of course sitting by a pool with a Pinacolta isn't exactly the perfect setting for health care debate but interesting a doctor from NY was sitting in the lounge chair next to me and we got into a long deep conversation about about reform and his take. He actually plays golf with Elliot Spitzer brother who I guess is a doc too. I gather he might be a conservative but he agreed something has to be done to make it a fair system. His claim is he pays out 7000 month to the insurance industry for protection against law suits. I explained builder who make a lot less are paying these same kind of insurance cost. Because it law they have to have it. Torte reform and caps on profits is a simple fix for all.. We talking health care here not a money making machine to exploit. Profit are not mention in all this debate. most doctor salary are capped by the hospital they work for.. If they demand more of the pie there just sent packing.. So there at the mercy of these corp run hospital owned by fat cats on wall street who are making a killing off health care. We need laws controlling the profits that are earned on items to drugs to salary to hospital.. Let all not forget 20 years ago most of this work was non profit.
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Thugs Martha Coakley had working for her... http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/01/19/coakleys_office_throws_out_reporter.html
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rich n:
Thugs Martha Coakley had working for her... http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/01/19/coakleys_office_throws_out_reporter.html
Good thing she's not taking them to a Senate seat in Washington D.C.
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So, if brown is the new republican messiah and obama the current democrat messiah with raj limbo the conservative as the only self proclaimed messiah...then who are the liberal and independent messiahs?
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appletart2:
90% of getting any job done is showing up.. Maybe someone should tell Obama that. I understand this will upset the health care bill but that bill was junk.. I personally em not for a bill forcing us to pay for insurances to a broken system and or be taxed.. To force young people to have to be insured when there not using the system and pay for 4 years before we get change. **uh, where do you think the $$$$ will come from? There aren't any $$$$ to *immediately pay for it*. Young people may not use the system yet, but the odds are they will. It makes me laugh when I read the whining about "forcing" to pay for insurance.....48 states require you to have insurance in order to drive in that state....tell me, what is the difference??**this bill was so pro insurance that their stocks sored. Why can't simple change like the anti trust laws be enacted right now.. Why can't simple laws like you sell insurance to someone it got to cover catastrophic care and you can't cancel it for any reason except lack payment and if somene get ill they can't jack there rates up. Let me ask you this: why can't your state enact laws to do that?? why force us to pay taxes on our health care but than exclude all the govrment and union employees from paying.. Why well let me tell you why. because the government pays outrageous money to the HCI industry and they don't want YOU to know it. Excluding union employees isn't correct, the last I heard. Again, where do you think the $$$$ will come from to pay for uninsured?? If you had full coverage with dental etc and pay for it out of pocket and lets say 50 years old you would be paying most likely about 1200+ mth for it. Now if you had to pay taxes at I believe 50%, that would be huge. Again it depends where you live. What I pay is different than someone in Iowa. I don't see where you reconcile that. I don't get to write off my health care bill dollar for dollar and that what kind of laws should be happening not taxes us. It should be the people paying get to write it off there taxes 100% those who get it given should have to pay taxes it the same as income. So you want the rest of us to pay for your insurance while you pay nothing?? You can use health insurance as a tax deduction if you have your own business I believe. And perhaps you can elaborate on why those who get health insurance through an employer need to pay taxes on it . this health care bill was junk and it was junk on purpose because the insurance company is paying off the politicization and they just wanted a excuse to collect it by killing the bill and looking like they tried.. Have you send you senator a email today.. I have warning them that what happen in Mass will happen to them next.. It out with the old in with the new. So your senators are up for election in November?? Senators have six year terms. I appreciate the "throw the bums out" sentiment although I do not understand how that will accoplish anything. I glad this guys only got 3 years and it election time again.. Time enough to see if it will be politics as usual or if he can think for himself. Can't pass legislation all by yourself I say vote them all out than watch and vote those guys out if they don't get it.. We want honest people making choice for the masses not the rich.
In case you haven't noticed, the so called "rich" are part of this country too. They also have rights, like it or not. (shrugs)
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appletart2:
jaipur:
rich n:
jaipur:
Yes he did. Not sure if America wins though. It was only a year or so ago that individuals threw out this same party that won the election....hmmm.
I've always felt that a year ago from last November was just a not very well thought out, knee jerk response to a general dissatisfaction towards George Bush...Just as long as he was gone, everything was ok - right??? If you promise the world and can't come though...
Reagan did not "come through" with everything in just a year....perhaps I'm just an old geezer, I did not expect Obama to "walk on water" and accomplish everything in a year. Frankly, I do think that Brown is riding the wave, though I do not think he has much to offer except a truck I still don't get the thing about jobs: republicans have always stood behind the notion that the private sector creates jobs (true, I do believe), yet the push on Brown was about jobs?? Huh?? Then again Clinton did his some of his best stuff with a republican congress. Eliminating Glass Stegall wasn't one of them He's got two years to walk on water...what's your take??
I think Bill Clinton is setting his eyes on running against Obama.. uh, I'm not 100% sure he can. People see Obama as a great speaker and good man..But he either out of his league or he the great pretender. What going on in office would of happen no matter who got in.. These banks run are country and we have one thing to make real change our vote. but what has happen is so outrageous and than they can't get health care passed something that all american want. This isn't magic where you simply clap your hands....somehow there seems to be a disconnect between how legislation is enacted. I just came back from Cabo Mex for 2 weeks.. Of course sitting by a pool with a Pinacolta isn't exactly the perfect setting for health care debate but interesting a doctor from NY was sitting in the lounge chair next to me and we got into a long deep conversation about about reform and his take. He actually plays golf with Elliot Spitzer brother who I guess is a doc too. I gather he might be a conservative but he agreed something has to be done to make it a fair system. His claim is he pays out 7000 month to the insurance industry for protection against law suits. I explained builder who make a lot less are paying these same kind of insurance cost. Because it law they have to have it. Any links to back this up??? Just curious Torte reform and caps on profits is a simple fix for all.. We talking health care here not a money making machine to exploit. Profit are not mention in all this debate. most doctor salary are capped by the hospital they work for.. If they demand more of the pie there just sent packing.. So there at the mercy of these corp run hospital owned by fat cats on wall street who are making a killing off health care. Doctors do not all work at hospitals. Not all hospitals are run by for profits. Do try and keep that in mind....because it might be prevalent where you are doesn't mean it is everywhere. We need laws controlling the profits that are earned on items to drugs to salary to hospital.. Let all not forget 20 years ago most of this work was non profit.
I do not agree that profits should be capped. Non profits need money as well in order to run
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SurSteven:
So, if brown is the new republican messiah and obama the current democrat messiah with raj limbo the conservative as the only self proclaimed messiah...then who are the liberal and independent messiahs?
Obama is a liberal and a Democrat. He was the MOST liberal Senator before his run for President. Liberal thinkers want to take care of everyone in lieu of encouraging personal accountability. They believe that there are excuses for all human conditions that supercede the right to fail. Cradle to grave nursemaiding is the seed for this current healthcare debate. The current bill is a mess of a misguided compromise. The biggest concern is that bills like this, once enacted, are difficult to undo. We should move slowly and prudently. The debate should not be rushed. Brown is not a messiah, but his election WILL put balance back into the picture, allowing a brake on the Democrat super majority in the Senate. Most Americans want balance in politics. They are uncomfortable with too much power on any one side.
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LCH:
SurSteven:
So, if brown is the new republican messiah and obama the current democrat messiah with raj limbo the conservative as the only self proclaimed messiah...then who are the liberal and independent messiahs?
Obama is a liberal and a Democrat. He was the MOST liberal Senator before his run for President. Liberal thinkers want to take care of everyone in lieu of encouraging personal accountability. They believe that there are excuses for all human conditions that supercede the right to fail. Cradle to grave nursemaiding is the seed for this current healthcare debate. The current bill is a mess of a misguided compromise. The biggest concern is that bills like this, once enacted, are difficult to undo. We should move slowly and prudently. The debate should not be rushed. Brown is not a messiah, but his election WILL put balance back into the picture, allowing a brake on the Democrat super majority in the Senate. Most Americans want balance in politics. They are uncomfortable with too much power on any one side.
So, if obama is center left and near left...ant you are right of center...and most americans correctly want balance in our politics...then who should we vote for?
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You should vote for the person that best serves *your* interest. I don't recall any balance in the legislative bodies during Bush or Clinton. Did I miss it??
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jaipur:
You should vote for the person that best serves *your* interest. I don't recall any balance in the legislative bodies during Bush or Clinton. Did I miss it??
So, what do independents believe...that makes their believings...better than left wing or right wing believings? ps...And why should we vote for those who "only serve" our interests?
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FWIW, I do think that independents, can recognize value without party attachment, or as you suggest left wing/right wing. We seem to be more in the middle. I am not suggesting that makes us "better", just different.
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SurSteven:
ps...And why should we vote for those who "only serve" our interests?
You shouldn't. Those who vote for those who "only serve their interests" are called Republicans.
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jaipur:
appletart2:
90% of getting any job done is showing up.. Maybe someone should tell Obama that. I understand this will upset the health care bill but that bill was junk.. I personally em not for a bill forcing us to pay for insurances to a broken system and or be taxed.. To force young people to have to be insured when there not using the system and pay for 4 years before we get change. **uh, where do you think the $$$$ will come from? There aren't any $$$$ to *immediately pay for it*. Young people may not use the system yet, but the odds are they will. It makes me laugh when I read the whining about "forcing" to pay for insurance.....48 states require you to have insurance in order to drive in that state....tell me, what is the difference??**this bill was so pro insurance that their stocks sored. Why can't simple change like the anti trust laws be enacted right now.. Why can't simple laws like you sell insurance to someone it got to cover catastrophic care and you can't cancel it for any reason except lack payment and if somene get ill they can't jack there rates up. Let me ask you this: why can't your state enact laws to do that?? why force us to pay taxes on our health care but than exclude all the govrment and union employees from paying.. Why well let me tell you why. because the government pays outrageous money to the HCI industry and they don't want YOU to know it. Excluding union employees isn't correct, the last I heard. Again, where do you think the $$$$ will come from to pay for uninsured?? If you had full coverage with dental etc and pay for it out of pocket and lets say 50 years old you would be paying most likely about 1200+ mth for it. Now if you had to pay taxes at I believe 50%, that would be huge. Again it depends where you live. What I pay is different than someone in Iowa. I don't see where you reconcile that. I don't get to write off my health care bill dollar for dollar and that what kind of laws should be happening not taxes us. It should be the people paying get to write it off there taxes 100% those who get it given should have to pay taxes it the same as income. So you want the rest of us to pay for your insurance while you pay nothing?? You can use health insurance as a tax deduction if you have your own business I believe. And perhaps you can elaborate on why those who get health insurance through an employer need to pay taxes on it . this health care bill was junk and it was junk on purpose because the insurance company is paying off the politicization and they just wanted a excuse to collect it by killing the bill and looking like they tried.. Have you send you senator a email today.. I have warning them that what happen in Mass will happen to them next.. It out with the old in with the new. So your senators are up for election in November?? Senators have six year terms. I appreciate the "throw the bums out" sentiment although I do not understand how that will accoplish anything. I glad this guys only got 3 years and it election time again.. Time enough to see if it will be politics as usual or if he can think for himself. Can't pass legislation all by yourself I say vote them all out than watch and vote those guys out if they don't get it.. We want honest people making choice for the masses not the rich.
In case you haven't noticed, the so called "rich" are part of this country too. They also have rights, like it or not. (shrugs)
No I don't want you to pay for my heath care but I don't want you to get government health care and not have to pay your fair share of taxes on the benefits you get for free. If I can not write off the money I spend dollar for dollar on health insurance than its not fair that gov employees who receive as benefits a tax free benefit. That should be counted as income. That is how you will pay for others health care. You keep referring to me wanting someone to pay for my health care.. I just want the right to buy health care at a affordable rate that will be there when I need it and can't be cancelled because I get too sick to work or lose my job or want to move to another state. I want insurance to be that, insurance when and if I need it. I want to see the health care industry held to the same anti trust laws that any other business has to do. Is there something I not seeing to why the insurance industry can have a monopoly and we can't? I want to see a public option so it make the insurance industry be competitive and I want to see a one payer system to rid of insurance industry.. I don't want to see 30% profits by insurance industry when there raising premium causing many to drop there health care. But his is all a mute thing now anyway.. We now see the supreme court just paved the way for corp money to be thrown in buckets at Washington to buy what ever they want.. The little man has just been crushed.
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Dustbin Lid:
SurSteven:
ps...And why should we vote for those who "only serve" our interests?
You shouldn't. Those who vote for those who "only serve their interests" are called Republicans.
Me thinks people in both (American) parties of thought - vote for their own interests. Protests (of all sorts) make no sense otherwise (anti- Vietnam war, pro and/or anti abortion. Bumper stickers - I guess the Kerry-Edwards (sticker still proudly on display) I saw 2 days ago ment absolutely nothing in self interests to its driver and/or its owner Yea - sure :