George's criticisms of Macca
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i think it is totally possible that george did take [something/here comes the sun] from either paul or john without even realising it. there were probably so many amazing lennon/mac melodies floating around amongst all the drug use that neither one would have realised. i myself wrote a fantastic song one night sitting at home stoned on my guitar.i was so proud .that was untill the next day when a friend i sang it too remarked that it was great,but unfortunately the 'rolling stones' wrote it in 1965!
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lazydynamite88:
i think it is totally possible that george did take [something/here comes the sun] from either paul or john without even realising it. there were probably so many amazing lennon/mac melodies floating around amongst all the drug use that neither one would have realised. i myself wrote a fantastic song one night sitting at home stoned on my guitar.i was so proud .that was untill the next day when a friend i sang it too remarked that it was great,but unfortunately the 'rolling stones' wrote it in 1965!
maybe the stones didnt write it :
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I still think those critisims were meant to encourage Paul to improve and challenge him. The competive edge, for example with Lennon and McCartney kind of got them trying to better each other getting them to improve. Just the way the Stones and the Beatles in many ways challenged each other to improve. love doris
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James Taylor's first album he owed to the Beatles signing him up on their Apple label, which is amazing. I guess if you wanted to get noticed, go to London, back then. And Taylor did/does have a lot of talent. One of his songs on that album featured the line "something in the way she moves" to a folksy type tune. All George "stole" were those few words to open George's own song "Something"--Taylor's song had inspired him, but the two songs sound nothing alike. Taylor's first line to his ditty is "Something in the way she moves," and George's first line is "Something in the way she moves." That's where the similarity starts, and ends. Little lesson in music history for ya. "Maybe" you comprehend now : : Or it may be too difficult for you.
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Yes, it's hilarious that we're even discussing the idea George stole his greatest songs. Just like Paul is Dead and Ringo wrote 'Hey Jude' right?
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There is no doubt that when George began writing better songs there was a certain amount of jealousy towards him from John & Paul. 'Something' was the tipping point- wouldn't you be jealous if your so-called 'junior partner' had just written a song at least as good as any of the stuff you had ever written? Also, if George's songs had been good enough before they would have appeared on the albums. His better songs did appear on the Beatles' albums. The only song that perhaps should have appeared on a Beatles album was 'Not Guilty'. It is a good job 'My Sweet Lord' was turned down as a Beatles track or they would have been tainted by the infamous court case- but I could't see John or Paul allowing that song to be released under their name. George always struck me as quite a bitter character- a lot of his lyrics leave a sour taste in my mouth. His first Beatles song was 'Don't Bother Me'........which sets the trend for a bitter outlook in the next 30 years. (I do know that song is just about feeling ill, but still.....). I read on another website that Geprge was the catalyst behind getting the Anthology moving again as he needed money.......but that can't be true.....can it?
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It was stated in the Revolution in the Head book by Ian MacDonald that George 'took' the opening line of 'Something' from James Taylor. I thought it was a commonly-known fact.....?
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Top_Banana:
It was stated in the Revolution in the Head book by Ian MacDonald that George 'took' the opening line of 'Something' from James Taylor. I thought it was a commonly-known fact.....?
It is. I think the comment was sarcastic.
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beatlesfanrandy:
This thread was started on a false premise 18 pages ago and it has turned into b)#*sh%^
Well I'm not going to defend what this thread devolved in to, but it was started on a very accurate and well-documented premise: George did, in fact, repeatedly and publicly criticize Paul. It's easy to find evidence of that. It's also easy to see that Paul rarely if ever said similarly nasty things about George. So this thread was started to explore that conflict. And it's as good a topic as any.
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Randy, i didn't start this thread to demean George Harrison in anyway!!! I love George Harrison as i'm sure most of us do on this site. However it always pissed me off as to how critical and nasty he was to Paul in interviews etc over the years... It's true and on video and in print. For a guy who was so religious and forgiving to guys like EC after stealing his wife he was pretty petty towards Paul for being a perfectionist in the studio..To me bottom line, he resented Paul for his relationship with John..He wanted to be John's musical partner.. John more or less blew him off whenever he recorded a song during the latter Beatle years and Paul helped him on EVERY SINGLE TRACK!!!! His contributions were obvious.. Listen to the Anthology about how he and John became "equals" and more or less estranged from Paul and Ringo after the LSD episode and how "JOhn would have been a Wilbury in a second"... Everything was about John to him.. and John loved him but Paul was his choice and it was clear even after the split, the respect and love John had for Paul. Oh and for the record, i don't buy that crap that George pinched songs.. but Paul's influence on "Here Comes The Sun" and "Something" are undeniable!!
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luigiram:
Randy, i didn't start this thread to demean George Harrison in anyway!!! I love George Harrison as i'm sure most of us do on this site. However it always pissed me off as to how critical and nasty he was to Paul in interviews etc over the years... It's true and on video and in print. For a guy who was so religious and forgiving to guys like EC after stealing his wife he was pretty petty towards Paul for being a perfectionist in the studio..To me bottom line, he resented Paul for his relationship with John..He wanted to be John's musical partner.. John more or less blew him off whenever he recorded a song during the latter Beatle years and Paul helped him on EVERY SINGLE TRACK!!!! His contributions were obvious.. Listen to the Anthology about how he and John became "equals" and more or less estranged from Paul and Ringo after the LSD episode and how "JOhn would have been a Wilbury in a second"... Everything was about John to him.. and John loved him but Paul was his choice and it was clear even after the split, the respect and love John had for Paul. Oh and for the record, i don't buy that crap that George pinched songs.. but Paul's influence on "Here Comes The Sun" and "Something" are undeniable!!
You are once again spot on in your observation. I think the pinching songs part has taken on a life of it's own, but it's possible there were subconcious pinchings going on. And personally when I listen to Something all I hear is the beautiful bass playing which takes on ok song and turns it on it's head. Only Paul would be generous enough to do that for George.
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All this 'you Brits' and 'love to drink to tea' nonsense is so patronising. Do you think we all have butlers and spend our afternoons watching cricket on the village green whilst eating cucumber sandwiches in our bowler hats?!
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luigiram:
....... but Paul's influence on "Here Comes The Sun" and "Something" are undeniable!!
Yep. I've always th0ught of the 'sun, sun, sun here it comes' bit as typical of Paul's writing.
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Personally, I'd prefer a French maid to an English butler...I do like tea, though.
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I sip tea and eat cucumber sandwiches regularly and have a penchant for sitting and watching cricket on the village green......actually I'm northern so it's chip butties with loads of Heinz tom ketchup and watching Sky sports in the local pub whilst quoffing rather large amounts of Stella. I also wear a bowler hat whilst taking a shower, carry an umbrella that doubles as a sword for those perilous missions that all us British secret agents undertake and speak the Queens English like wot old Queeny speaks (God bless her and all who have sailed in her). I live in a quaint little cottage with thatched roof, beautiful roses growing around the front door and listen to old 78's of Noel Cowards greatest hits. None of us drive cars we prefer to either take the steam train or cycle along whistling a happy tune whilst doffing our hat to those who are our superiors.... Me thinks those in the provinces watch way too many Jane Austin dramas or Ealing comedies. How come I've been lumbered with handing out the prizes on the now defunct 'Which Way Up is Paul' thread? I've just got back from the shops and now I'm gonna have turn round and go back. Thank you to the mod cavalry for arriving 'just in the nick of time' and closing the thread before it descended into a cage fight....
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Top_Banana:
Do you think we all have butlers and spend our afternoons watching cricket on the village green whilst eating cucumber sandwiches in our bowler hats?!
You don't??????
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jlw44:
luigiram:
Randy, i didn't start this thread to demean George Harrison in anyway!!! I love George Harrison as i'm sure most of us do on this site. However it always pissed me off as to how critical and nasty he was to Paul in interviews etc over the years... It's true and on video and in print. For a guy who was so religious and forgiving to guys like EC after stealing his wife he was pretty petty towards Paul for being a perfectionist in the studio..To me bottom line, he resented Paul for his relationship with John..He wanted to be John's musical partner.. John more or less blew him off whenever he recorded a song during the latter Beatle years and Paul helped him on EVERY SINGLE TRACK!!!! His contributions were obvious.. Listen to the Anthology about how he and John became "equals" and more or less estranged from Paul and Ringo after the LSD episode and how "JOhn would have been a Wilbury in a second"... Everything was about John to him.. and John loved him but Paul was his choice and it was clear even after the split, the respect and love John had for Paul. Oh and for the record, i don't buy that crap that George pinched songs.. but Paul's influence on "Here Comes The Sun" and "Something" are undeniable!!
You are once again spot on in your observation. I think the pinching songs part has taken on a life of it's own, but it's possible there were subconcious pinchings going on. And personally when I listen to Something all I hear is the beautiful bass playing which takes on ok song and turns it on it's head. Only Paul would be generous enough to do that for George.
I always thought it was John who offered more help to George throughout the Beatle days.. I've read that in multiple places. Taxman for instance, John basically helped with the lyrics, Paul he said couldn't be bothered. Maybe time spent in the studio working on tracks favored Paul, but as far as collaborating with George, I always thought John was a bit more willing to help and provide input. Could be wrong.
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John may have helped a bit here and there, especially with lyrics, but most of the time he couldn't be bothered. And notice how Paul's playing and harmonies on both George and John songs really excel as he puts his all into them. Personally I don't think that John worked all that hard on a lot of his own stuff as well. This is particularly noticeable with his solo work which he pretty much hands over to the producers and studio musicians. I know John had his moments over the years of sheer brilliance, but he wasn't consistent. But he never gave George the attention he should have. Geoff Emericks book is very good at pointing this out.
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kapoo:
jlw44:
luigiram:
Randy, i didn't start this thread to demean George Harrison in anyway!!! I love George Harrison as i'm sure most of us do on this site. However it always pissed me off as to how critical and nasty he was to Paul in interviews etc over the years... It's true and on video and in print. For a guy who was so religious and forgiving to guys like EC after stealing his wife he was pretty petty towards Paul for being a perfectionist in the studio..To me bottom line, he resented Paul for his relationship with John..He wanted to be John's musical partner.. John more or less blew him off whenever he recorded a song during the latter Beatle years and Paul helped him on EVERY SINGLE TRACK!!!! His contributions were obvious.. Listen to the Anthology about how he and John became "equals" and more or less estranged from Paul and Ringo after the LSD episode and how "JOhn would have been a Wilbury in a second"... Everything was about John to him.. and John loved him but Paul was his choice and it was clear even after the split, the respect and love John had for Paul. Oh and for the record, i don't buy that crap that George pinched songs.. but Paul's influence on "Here Comes The Sun" and "Something" are undeniable!!
You are once again spot on in your observation. I think the pinching songs part has taken on a life of it's own, but it's possible there were subconcious pinchings going on. And personally when I listen to Something all I hear is the beautiful bass playing which takes on ok song and turns it on it's head. Only Paul would be generous enough to do that for George.
I always thought it was John who offered more help to George throughout the Beatle days.. I've read that in multiple places. Taxman for instance, John basically helped with the lyrics, Paul he said couldn't be bothered. Maybe time spent in the studio working on tracks favored Paul, but as far as collaborating with George, I always thought John was a bit more willing to help and provide input. Could be wrong.
And more to the point who added the amazing guitar solo on Taxman that pretty much turned it into something you'd want to listen to? Even George couldn't argue with it.
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infact mccartney amongst other things still dosent get enough credit for what he brought to the other beatles songs. not bad for a so called 'selfish bastard' when it comes to music. 'george' was very ungrateful at times and at other times he was just a nasty piece of work. if i had been around in 1969 i would have said that the 'other three' would have crashed and burned without mccartney......and i would have been 100% correct. ringo obviously became a peripheral showbiz character,george became a moody dried up recluse whilst john completely underachieved in all areas despite his immense talents before he was tragically taken down. mccartney deserves more respect,thats all im saying.he might not have been the dominant force in the beatles when they burst through,but he certainly became the dominant force when the important art was created.the art that still gets lauded today.the art that makes the beatles so much more than just another great band.